Banned
Verstappen should be behind Vettel he has 15 place penalty so if Vettel got 5 places thats a theoretical 21st Verstappen a theoretical 25th. 25th does not exist so a 10 second penalty as well same for Button so should be Vettel ahead of both?Originally Posted by mandzipop
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Fight for championship?!?!?!? C'mon be realistic!!!!!
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Almost glad that Vettel got penalty. You have to be REALLY daft to do that when red flag is on. He was probably because he was on fast lap...
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I was wrong. In theory, the order is correct but Seb will possibly have the 5 second penalty as Button didn't set a laptime. Only 19 cars qualified.
Max has to take his grid drop first and can only go back to 19th. He takes his first, but as he can't take it all he has to serve a 10 second time penalty. Then Seb takes his and starts behind Max, but again he can't serve all of his penalty because Button didn't set a time. This means that Seb has a 5 second penalty. Button starts from somewhere in Canada and has a 10 second time penalty.
Forever Ferrari
Banned
Button will start the race so he classes as 20 when starting the race. These are race penalties which are not quali penalties as such Button classes as 20 plus penalty time, then should be Verstappen then Vettel ahead. Vettel was 16 +5 = 21, Verstappen was 12 +15 = 27, Button 20 + 10 = 30. As cannot have 27th or 30th there are time penalties applied. With time order Verstappen got penalties 1st so his position stands then Button. Vettel is then calculated after this so he had Massa, Mehri, Stevens, Button, Verstappen behind but the latter 2 are serving penalties so Vettel start 18th?
George Kabardis
Seb starting 18th.
Attachment 6377
FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!
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It is done in order of penalties incurred. I've worked it out due to the timing of the penalties.
Max Monaco 5 second penalty added first which put him in 17th.
Seb got his 5 place drop which put him in 19th (he could only drop 4 spots).
Max gets his 10 place drop, moves back to 19th, however they calculate it that he has only moved back 7 spots. Therefore he needs to serve his 10 second penalty.
Button gets given 20th because the stewards have had enough trying to calculate it even more.
Forever Ferrari
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Something clicks with the animal within when a top driver starts from the back of the field - getting past the slower cars one by one changes the whole mindset from the usual 'bringing it home in the best position you can': they are in a mode of 'I have nothing to lose and will drive without fear of making mistakes', which far more rewarding than repeatedly winning from the front with the best car. So I expect a good show - think of me when Seb wipes the smiles from those annoying British commentators.
Speaking of annoying: even though I'm Aussie, I've never liked that Alan Jones. I also had to put up with his commentary since the late 80s here - he sits there with an attitude that he would much rather be somewhere else, having no enthusiasm at all and has always hated Ferrari and everything Italian. After a long period without him doing the F1 shows, he came back recently. I would not be surprised if he has a form of dementia because last year he said something along the lines "these F1 car produce so much downforce, that they can drive upside-down in a tunnel" - the guys sitting next to him stayed quiet with a deadpan look!
Last edited by From Treviso; 7th June 2015 at 00:17.
Full Member
So Arrivabene confirmed that electrical problem was there since Barcelona. And even after it gives us problems in FP2/3 we still proceed without changing it? Madness.
In the end maybe its better then seeing Vettel being 3rd or 4th and then getting grid penalty for his brain fart.
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I think he meant that there was some gremlin issue that was showing up on the data but not materialising on the track.
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Anyone got speed trap data?
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Isn't it strange that every time you think "this will be a perfect race weekend from start to finish" something goes wrong? It's been like that, in this perticular curse, since 2008. It may have started at Silverstone with Kimi's lose exhaust or at the Hungaroring when Felipe's engine gave up. Or the lights and fuel hose at Singapore... All those years since then (minus the Alonso years which I hated) something always have gone wrong when it looked perfect. And it happened again with Seb this time. Seb wasn't lucky at Sepang or Monaco, it was Merc mistakes. So why must Ferrari endure pain because of that? But we do, yes, we do. For what? Some might say it's a conspiracy? Passing under red flags, yeah sure. Passing a Manor into the pits. Big deal. It's not Suzuka in the rain, is it FiA?
It's not a conspiracy, it's a hoax. It's all made up for the TV public and this time Seb was cut down. We should have been P3 and P4 on the grid, FIA! Without Ferrari trying you're nothing, you're a piece of . All the fans wanted that grid, and we acknowledge we're not there yet, but you couldn't give even that. But we would have settled for that. But now you have some Button-esque strategy for Seb in mind which is fake and you know it.
**Watch your language please. No swearing, even if blanked out and please do not bring world politics into the discussion here**
Last edited by REDARMYSOJA; 7th June 2015 at 04:12.
Full Member
Come on guys, we are not so far off, why you people being so defeatist? As long as its mathematically possible, we should not give up. We are in with a shout, dont you think? You guys come on, to be a champion, you got to fight! Yea, yea, I know they say its not a championship winning season for Ferrari, but do you think anyone in the team really believe they are NOT in with a shout if they keep fighting for it? It only takes a one or two retirements to be the leader in the standings. Drivers championship mainly. Reliability can strike at any moment. Nothing is certain or written in stone.
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Amen to that.
Agree with you 100%
Last edited by REDARMYSOJA; 7th June 2015 at 04:14.
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It's true, isn't it? Ferrari were given orders "from above" to either "stop" Seb or face a draconian penaly for passing under a red flag. So it seems we faked an electrical error in order to save us from the MEDIA. OK, I buy that from our point of view after what happened at Suzuka. But The FiA have no pulse or feeling whatsoever. They were going into the pits and the stop happened on the other side of the track. How is this anything to compare?
**Edited to remove political content**
Last edited by REDARMYSOJA; 7th June 2015 at 04:15.
Full Member
What's the penalty for a ICE component and if we take it now can we still use the ICE we replace?
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It is not that people are defeatist!!! Not at all!!! It is called being realistic!!!
There is nothing more than I would like to see Ferrari driver taking WDC and CWC for Ferrari. But that my friend is not going to happen this year for sure. It is written in stone!!!
Full Member
Come on! You are being defeatist! So you know for 100%, before the end of the season we will loose the championship? If you give up like this, you will never win. Remember Michael Schuamcher, he would give 120% until it is mathematically impossible. Being realistic means, you understand they are faster and you prepare best give the scenario. But, you still keep fighting for it. Good example is, Vettel was almost out of the championship, Alonso only needed to finish 4th to win the championship in 2010. Vettel was a long shot, but still he kept at it and a mistake by Ferrari gave Vettel the championship. So, please, dont tell me you know we are lost already. It will be difficult, but its no way lost my friend! Given the mistakes that Mercedes have been making this year, it could happen. I am not saying we have a 50% chance, we might have a 5% chance, but still its a chance, and you have to fight for it. Its not over until its over.
Another thing, if you are so sure, and if everyone is so sure that we are lost, why not just everyone go home, save all the money, work on next years car. Give Mercedes and Hamilton the championships and call it a season now!
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I believe the penalty only happen once we use more than 4 component. We have not use all 4 components allowed yet, so if we have to, we can still bring a new at anytime without any penalty, and we can use them at later races any way the team wishes. It's only once we need a 5th unit, that we will take a penalty on the first race we use that 5th unit.
Because our involvement in every race is an important part in developing the team back to the top. Ferrari have many times made it clear that the championship is not the aim this season. This season is all about developing and making our way back to the top, and this can only be done by developing the car and participating in races, not sitting at the factory doing nothing.
Until someone can finally make a car fast enough to compete with Merc, Merc will remain the clear winner. They are still the fastest car, and they probably have some performance in reserve.
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Exactly
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I bet you on this! Agree?
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I think there's a difference between acting like your in a championship fight and doing everything accordingly to that, or giving 120% every race and tryuing to achieve the maximum and try to get the team where it belongs..
It's very clear that Merc still has the upper hand. If there's a car that's much faster than your car, and it isn't suffering massively from reliability and the guys in that car are winning almost everything than you are not really in a fight with them. What you try to do is push as hard as you can to get in a fight with them..
Remember 2012? We were in a WDC fight. Why? Because Ferrari and Fernando did the best job in the races from all the others, but the cars wasnt championship material. Still we got 40 points after summer break a head in WDC. So we were in a fight. But, were we ever able to fight our challenger Sebastian from then on? No.. We could only try and to the maximum we can and hope for the best, that is what we've done..
We are doing our best and improving the car. Apart from Bahrain and the red flag, Seb has been doing great, he's also very motivated. Same goes for Kimi apart his qualy performance.
For sure we are psuhing.
But you can't start saying at this point "oh it's not good for championship etc" that's not the point now, we can't loose ourselves in that. We stick to our programme of developping the car, whatever it takes.
“The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few.” ~ Enzo Ferrari
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i hope kimi wins.
The mercs havent had too much of mechanical failures this season. Its about time.
Silently, like a shadow
Gold Member
He has a good chance. Rosberg is weak, He can be broken. We need LH to have some sort of failure.
Silently, like a shadow
Gold Member
He is not stupid. In the past he has flaunted the rules and gotten away with it. It just caught up with him. He is lucky that his engine problems came in the same race. SV can write this race off and just concentrate on limiting the damage.
Silently, like a shadow
Full Member
Don't forget Bottas and the two Lotus behind, I think we are faster but still, we need to defend from them I think, also if they try the undercut we need to defend and therefore loose possibility to attack ROS..
The start will be so important.. If HAM lead ROS it will be like this the whole race I think.. Or ROS beats HAM at the start or Kimi needs to get between them..
“The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few.” ~ Enzo Ferrari
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Yesterday the MGU-H issue caused a lack of power of 80/100 bhp on Seb's car - #Gazzetta
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I think the Lotus' are more dangerous than the williams of bottas. Grosjean and pastor are trying very hard to beat each other. Both are known to take out people/cars in a 10m radius from their own cars. Plus the lotus looks more potent overall compared to a williams. We need to watch out for these 2 cars.
Silently, like a shadow
Full Member
Agree.. If Kimi can't get between both Mercs at the start, I think we need to focus on P3 so we have a podium with Kimi and make sure we don't loose it.. Lotus will indeed be trying very hard, but so will Bottas.
For Seb, we know he has a fast car, but he needs to survive first lap, also Verstappen is behind him and he wants to make progress and we all know what happened in Monaco so, Seb needs to look out.
If Seb has a clean first lap, he can make progress but I think that Felipe will be a problem, since the Williams isn't that bad and hard to overtake on the straight, so we could be stuck behind him (remember Australia). Therefore I think we need to be flexible with strategy. If there is good progress the first few laps, ok, if we're stuck behind someone, I think we need to think of an early pit, if we can get clean are, then we can do our own pace..
We should go for maximum attack with Seb, not much to loose.. Also very short pitlane here so you loose less time..
“The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few.” ~ Enzo Ferrari
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What are you two talking about ???? Kimi will win it Seb will finish fourth .
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