F1 set to match Monza top speeds in Mexico

[abbottcostello]

Formula 1 cars look set to match, or even exceed, the highest top speeds of the season at the Mexican Grand Prix, according to early simulation data produced ahead of the race.

With the Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez situated at 2200 metres above sea level, the less dense air is going to have a big effect on aerodynamic performance.
The analysis of its impact is that if teams can recover the loss of engine power by spooling their turbos to run higher than they normally do, then there is a chance that top speeds will mirror – or even beat – the 355km/h mark experienced at Monza.
And more intriguingly, the speeds could come despite teams running in high downforce configuration – because the less dense air means there is less of a drag drawback.
McLaren racing director Eric Boullier told Motorsport.com: “It is true we will be seeing cars with full downforce, but with Monza top speed levels.”
Fruity speeds

Lotus technical director Nick Chester believes that the reduced drag will show with the high top speeds – especially along the main start-finish straight.
“The less dense air provides less downforce and drag than we would produce at sea level,” he said. “Because of this we could see some pretty fruity speeds along the start-finish straight.
“Less dense air also means you can’t cool everything you want to be cooled as well as would be the case at lower ground levels.”
Engine challenge

The key to potentially delivering the top speeds will be in ensuring the engines continue to deliver their maximum power.
Mercedes chief race engineer Andrew Shovlin reckoned that Mexico would be an 'extreme' challenge for the engines.
“Mexico is going to present some very unique challenges for the Petronas Syntium engine oil,” he explained in a preview published on behalf of the team's fuel supplier.
“The high altitude means you have very low cooling, so it is an extreme circuit – and that will be one of the biggest issues we face this weekend.”

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...eds-in-mexico/

[erinha]

Ooooh. Exciting!

[WS6TransAm01]

Less O2 means you make less power. Even with upping the boost. The max boost is limited isn't it? Not like they can just crank it up a few PSI. U less they are not maxed out as of yet.

[abbottcostello]

Less O2 means you make less power. Even with upping the boost. The max boost is limited isn't it? Not like they can just crank it up a few PSI. U less they are not maxed out as of yet.

Target boost is still the same, just requires a higher volume of the less dense charge air.
From what I've heard turbos are getting full boost at about 100,000 RPM & tech regs. allow 125,000 RPM. That's plenty of room to get full power, whether the oil & turbochargers can take the stress of extra revs, we'll see!

Flip side of the coin, with thinner air, it requires LESS power to push the car thru it, so we could possibly see teams choose to not boost to normal PSI levels for reliability gains.

[Hornet]

Less O2 means you make less power. Even with upping the boost. The max boost is limited isn't it? Not like they can just crank it up a few PSI. U less they are not maxed out as of yet.

It's lesser of a problem for forced induction, as the turbo system will draw in the air, as opposed to NA engine where it relies on the atmosphere pressure to draw air into the engine.

[Stormy]

Lotus are saying max speed will be 360 km and Williams are stating 345 km per hour. Performance on the track will show who is right.

[SS454]

362 kph so far. That's crazy fast for the downforce package they are running.

Makes one wonder what the F2004 would do, as it hit 363 kph in qual (higher fuel levels than today) at Monza. Surely would be 370 or more.

[abbottcostello]

362 kph so far. That's crazy fast for the downforce package they are running.

Makes one wonder what the F2004 would do, as it hit 363 kph in qual (higher fuel levels than today) at Monza. Surely would be 370 or more.

Don't forget, they are running Monaco level downforce setups here just to get enough DF in the rarified air.
I don't know enough math to figure all those variables into an equation to calculate top speed for F2004 Just thinking about it makes my head hurt though.
Ferrari ought to bring an F2004 from their Corse Clienti "corral" of F1 cars to answer this for us fans that need to know!

[TigerKing]

I read on the official F1 website that even though the ICE has less oxygen to use, the turbocharger spins quicker thus offsetting the loss of power. But if they're running Monaco like downforce, wouldn't that mean they would still have more drag than at Monza? I just can't understand the physics of this!

[Jax]

I read on the official F1 website that even though the ICE has less oxygen to use, the turbocharger spins quicker thus offsetting the loss of power. But if they're running Monaco like downforce, wouldn't that mean they would still have more drag than at Monza? I just can't understand the physics of this!

It's simple : although they are running high down force set up (i wouldn't go as far as saying Monaco levels), the thin air ( less particles= less air hitting the wings) makes it harder to produce down force . As for the turbo part, Yes the boost is limited , but the thing is they won't be getting this same boost running the turbo at the same speeds as they do at say , monaco ;), this is due as well to the nature of the air (thin = less particles to push into the engine ) so in order to get the same boost, they will need it to run higher . I hope that helped.

[KimiBot]

Kimi has F1 speed record , Monza 2005 370.1 kph, it is possible that we get new record today.

[abbottcostello]

I read on the official F1 website that even though the ICE has less oxygen to use, the turbocharger spins quicker thus offsetting the loss of power. But if they're running Monaco like downforce, wouldn't that mean they would still have more drag than at Monza? I just can't understand the physics of this!

Just imagine outer space, which has no air & sea level where air is the most dense. At Mexico's elevation of (7,300 feet) there is 20% less air molecules in any given volume, compared to at sea level.

[SS454]

I read on the official F1 website that even though the ICE has less oxygen to use, the turbocharger spins quicker thus offsetting the loss of power. But if they're running Monaco like downforce, wouldn't that mean they would still have more drag than at Monza? I just can't understand the physics of this!

Like stated, Turbo's don't get as impacted to altitude as much as naturally aspirated engines. Also another big factor is today's use electric power as well. Those 160 electric HP couldn't care less about altitude or weather conditions.

Even though they are running high downforce package this weekend, because of the air density the actual downforce is probably closer to Canada or even Monza levels, which is why the drag levels are also similar to the low DF tracks.

I believe Monza has an elevation of about 565 ft above sea level, where as Mexico is 2200 meters or about 7220 ft (some state its closer to 7500 ft). The F2004 probably made around 930 bhp, so at 7500 ft it is only making about 730 hp. While today's power units make maybe 850-880 bhp combined, at 7500 ft the combustion engine might be making 590 hp, add the 160 electric hp and you get about 750 total hp. However F1 cars aren't using the electric hp at max speed, they use it for a few seconds while accelerating out of the last corner. Then there is the DRS factor too.

The F2004 must remain as a more efficient design than today's cars, so one could assume the F2004 could run a Canada or Spa downforce package and still have more downforce than the 2015 car's high downforce package they are running this weekend. The F2004 probably has less drag, at least when the DRS is not engaged on today's cars. The F2004 hit 340.9 kph in single lap qualifying (347 kph in the race) during the Canadian GP. With the right gearing, I have to assume that wing package could hit well into the 360s around Mexico.

[SS454]

Kimi has F1 speed record , Monza 2005 370.1 kph, it is possible that we get new record today.

That record was done in the race while in the draft. Qualifying in 2005 netted a peak trap speed of 359.5 kph. However in testing I believe it was McLaren that hit 372 kph at Monza, which I must assume was while drafting as well.

Qual trap speed record of 363.1 could fall, and race trap speed record of 370.1 could fall as well. All with a high downforce wing package, and reduced engine hp. Crazy physics.

[SS454]

364.4 in qual. Nearly 226.5 mph. Impressive.

[KimiBot]

Yes, really, many don`t like these new engines, no loud sound, but at least they are fast.

I did watch Formula E race, they are slow and it was painful to watch, but after maybe 5 years or so they are fast and popular.
Many former F1 drivers is racing there.

[Stormy]

Yes, really, many don`t like these new engines, no loud sound, but at least they are fast.

I did watch Formula E race, they are slow and it was painful to watch, but after maybe 5 years or so they are fast and popular.
Many former F1 drivers is racing there.

Formula E is attractive for drivers because is a totally new single seater racing. And lets be frank, electrical and hybrid cars are the future.