Scuderia Ferrari SF16-H Development thread.

[Kyss4k]

Indeed, and you know what: it was even in a slower car! RBR clearly way ahead of us.. And Kimi was able to stay right behind the best driver F1 has ever seen, in a faster car.. Just insane..

Don't forget, that Verstapen did not have the upgraded PU.

[Red is Best]

I don't think we can expect big gains from the engine. It looks good enough already and almost on par with Mercedes. In the end engine performance will converge and won't be a differentiating factor, just like in the V8 era.
I think the biggest issue with this car is the lack of mechanical grip. We are getting slaughtered by the Mercs and RBR in slow corners. Just look at the Spanish GP. We were faster than RBR overall, but we were unable to overtake on the straight, even with DRS on, because the car wouldn't accelerate soon enough at the exit of the last chicane.
Just look at the on-board footage of Vettel, and look at how much distance Verstapen was able to put between him and Seb under accelaration.
This has been a issue for years now. The last car that I can think of with decent mechanical grip compared to our rivals was the F10.

[Stormy]

Don't forget, that Verstapen did not have the upgraded PU.

The aero that Red Bull has makes all the difference. That Renault PU still sucks.

[Gould]

Did we not so long ago see that he was able to keep up fine with that overhyped Verstappen lap after lap after lap?

Keep up? That's good enough now? Just to keep up?

Come on, a younger driver might have forced Verstappen into making a mistake or even have ivertaken him. We are now happy just to be "keeping up".

[FerrariF60]

Keep up? That's good enough now? Just to keep up?

Come on, a younger driver might have forced Verstappen into making a mistake or even have ivertaken him. We are now happy just to be "keeping up".

well for now it's better then rather being miles off mercedes and redbull
until we fix our issues we've got (which i hope it's gonna a be sooner rather then later) at least we're staying in touch with them and hopefully when we get more speed out of the car we can challange Merc for wins at every race

[killer]

And where would that crying baby go?
He has run away from Ricciardo, in Merc he gets Hamilton, in Mclaren Alonso...

You have proof that Seb approached Ferrari right after 2014 with express reason that he couldn't beat Daniel, no?

[Jacquesvw]

Why are drivers being discussed in this thread? It's annoying because this thread is about the car's development and now it's been taken over by pointless driver discussions.

[farid-baku]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/fe...canada-742294/ Arrivabene say that they will bring the engine upgrade without tokens but in Canada they announsed fix turbo isusses

[killer]

Why are drivers being discussed in this thread? It's annoying because this thread is about the car's development and now it's been taken over by pointless driver discussions.

Yeah, my bad. Should not have taken a bite.

[killer]

I don't think we can expect big gains from the engine. It looks good enough already and almost on par with Mercedes. In the end engine performance will converge and won't be a differentiating factor, just like in the V8 era.
I think the biggest issue with this car is the lack of mechanical grip. We are getting slaughtered by the Mercs and RBR in slow corners. Just look at the Spanish GP. We were faster than RBR overall, but we were unable to overtake on the straight, even with DRS on, because the car wouldn't accelerate soon enough at the exit of the last chicane.
Just look at the on-board footage of Vettel, and look at how much distance Verstapen was able to put between him and Seb under accelaration.
This has been a issue for years now. The last car that I can think of with decent mechanical grip compared to our rivals was the F10.

This was ostensibly addressed in the Barca test. You could say traction for traction's sake wasn't bad in Monaco. As an example, Seb made up 4++ seconds on Perez in the last laps, and Perez wasn't exactly slowing down. You do not do that in Monaco if you have poor traction. It's the tyres: they just wouldn't work when we needed them to. I do not know if we can call a loss in tyre grip per se a function of a lack of traction in terms of suspension and power delivery. I could be wrong.

[Nova]

Improvements/upgrades?

[WS6TransAm01]

I do not know if we can call a loss in tyre grip per se a function of a lack of traction in terms of suspension and power delivery. I could be wrong.

I would. The suspension should be set up in a way to keep the tires in the operating temperature window. Too aggressive, you overhear the tire, blister it and its gone. Not aggressive enough, the tire stays too cool and doesn't bite enough.

Ferrari either can't find the right setup or the design will not allow them to apply the needed settings. Or a combination of both and every one is left scratching their heads.

[FerrariF60]

I would. The suspension should be set up in a way to keep the tires in the operating temperature window. Too aggressive, you overhear the tire, blister it and its gone. Not aggressive enough, the tire stays too cool and doesn't bite enough.

Ferrari either can't find the right setup or the design will not allow them to apply the needed settings. Or a combination of both and every one is left scratching their heads.

OR this year’s tires are SO sensitive OR too sensitive that even if we dial them in fairly close (using the suspension set-up) if their (tyres) operating window is TOO narrow, and if the track changes 2-3-4 degrees there goes the perfect set-up you thought you had.

but then again HOW is the Mercs and Red fools dial them in and NOT be effected by temperature a couple degree changed in track temperature.

For sure we have to get ON TOP of this if we want to stand a chance at championships this year.

[Nova]

OR this year’s tires are SO sensitive OR too sensitive that even if we dial them in fairly close (using the suspension set-up) if their (tyres) operating window is TOO narrow, and if the track changes 2-3-4 degrees there goes the perfect set-up you thought you had.

but then again HOW is the Mercs and Red fools dial them in and NOT be effected by temperature a couple degree changed in track temperature.

For sure we have to get ON TOP of this if we want to stand a chance at championships this year.

Ever since pirelli changed compounds a few years ago we have been having tire issues.
I mean, whats up w/that?
But I have to ask the same thing you are..how are RB n merc getting around that?

[WS6TransAm01]

but then again HOW is the Mercs and Red fools dial them in and NOT be effected by temperature a couple degree changed in track temperature.

Exactly. The tires are the same for everyone. Even if they have a razor thin operating window MB and RBR seem to have figured it out. Is Ferrari lacking that much talent that they can not? Maybe. Only they can answer that question while we are left here bitching and moaning about our favorite team underperforming at the start and falling further and further behind yet another year in a row.

[killer]

I would. The suspension should be set up in a way to keep the tires in the operating temperature window. Too aggressive, you overhear the tire, blister it and its gone. Not aggressive enough, the tire stays too cool and doesn't bite enough.

Ferrari either can't find the right setup or the design will not allow them to apply the needed settings. Or a combination of both and every one is left scratching their heads.

Thanks. I was referring to intrinsic tyre capabilities but it's clear one depends on the other. No use whining about Pirelli either.

Your last point is what leads me to believe it's a problem with data correlation again (remember the wind tunnel?), only this time we are having a lot of trouble with immediate problems.

I imagine the team has all the data that can possibly be collected when the car is at maximum performance: temperatures, pressures, etc. The same would then apply to when the car is not doing well. Surely that's enough to make informed set up decisions (+ driver input, of course).

I don't want to think the design is prohibitive so I am going with the team needing a refinement in how things get done on race weekends hahaha.

[bondilad]

Arrivabene: You will see another Ferrari in Canada

Ferrari is eyeing a step forward for Canada, after not only failing to catch Mercedes but even falling behind Red Bull at the last two races.

Sections of the partisan Italian media are now calling it a “crisis”, but team boss Maurizio Arrivabene is vowing to hit back.

“We will accelerate some developments for Canada – you will see another Ferrari,” he is quoted by Speed Week amid speculation of a further engine upgrade.

“In order to become competitive, we must make improvements at every race, and that is what is planned,” the Italian added.

But Arrivabene suggested the biggest problem is a mysterious loss of ability to stay in Pirelli’s tyre operating ‘window’ between the early and later stages of qualifying.

“It’s absurd to go into Q1 fastest and not be able to repeat it in Q2 and Q3,” he said. “We need a deep analysis of what happens between the chassis and the tyres with the temperatures and the pressures,” he added.

As for the suggestion Ferrari has already fallen behind a resurgent Red Bull, Arrivabene hit back at that notion, “If it is Red Bull that is Ferrari’s problem, then I just go home now.”

I know most of us are disappointed with the outcome of this season having read so many rumors about development and performance gains etc etc. But I really do hope we have fixed our turbo issue once in for all and we are really close to the Mercs in Canada and put Redbull where they belong.

[20000rpm]

Arrivabene: Stop Talking, Deliver on the promises.
The results will speak for you and the team if progress has been made or not.
All this talk and giving false hopes is not doing any good either for the fans or the team.
This Ldm virus just refuses to leave Ferrari, its just like a Superbug!!

[Nova]

No use whining...If there are updates and
someone knows about them, please post them here.

[Stormy]

It looks like the Ultra Soft is the favored tire for the Canadian GP. I thought Canada was hard on the tires because of the heavy breaking when entering corners.

[FerrariF60]

It looks like the Ultra Soft is the favored tire for the Canadian GP. I thought Canada was hard on the tires because of the heavy breaking when entering corners.

not really, even last year they brought soft and super soft to Montreal.
so this year the tire compounds are so ****ed up that even the ultra soft are hard as ROCKS

we;ll see, hopefully the upgrades Ferrari is thinking of bringing to Canada will work and also hoping everyone is working flat out to figure out HOW to make the tires work and bring them up to temp quicker...

[Stormy]

we;ll see, hopefully the upgrades Ferrari is thinking of bringing to Canada will work and also hoping everyone is working flat out to figure out HOW to make the tires work and bring them up to temp quicker...

Do you think it will go better for us with the Ultra Soft tires, because naturally they raise temp the quickest?
Maybe we won't have any temp problems with the Ultra Soft. Maybe in Monaco we had problems because of the rain.

[zike]

It was dry and hot in quali

[Kristof_F40]

Do you think it will go better for us with the Ultra Soft tires, because naturally they raise temp the quickest?
Maybe we won't have any temp problems with the Ultra Soft. Maybe in Monaco we had problems because of the rain.

It wasn't raining during qualy..

[ss-89]

Monaco is a shorter track with quite a few low speed corners, could it be that particularly exacerbates our issue of getting tyres into the operating window. Maybe Canada with its harder braking zones and higher speeds will mean it's less of an issue. I doubt we will have fixed the issue completely but maybe it won't be as pronounced in Canada.

Well that's what I hope at least.

[Stormy]

Monaco is a shorter track with quite a few low speed corners, could it be that particularly exacerbates our issue of getting tyres into the operating window. Maybe Canada with its harder braking zones and higher speeds will mean it's less of an issue. I doubt we will have fixed the issue completely but maybe it won't be as pronounced in Canada.

Well that's what I hope at least.

Lets hope. It makes sense.

It was dry and hot in quali

I was talking about the race. But yeah, it doesn't matter.

[WS6TransAm01]

I think the bigger issue is that in Q1/Q2 the tires worked, but in Q3, 10 minutes later they didn't.

How do u go from working to not in 10minutes? Less laps in Q3? Maybe.

[nani_s23]

I think the bigger issue is that in Q1/Q2 the tires worked, but in Q3, 10 minutes later they didn't.

How do u go from working to not in 10minutes? Less laps in Q3? Maybe.

for every session either it be q1, q2 or q3. All are doing 1 warm up lap, 1 hot lap. So i think it's not the issue.
It's down to track temp & ferrari not getting enough heat into those tires when it mattered mostly. This is the only reason that is circulating around in the paddock.

[mhmalik]

I think the bigger issue is that in Q1/Q2 the tires worked, but in Q3, 10 minutes later they didn't.

How do u go from working to not in 10minutes? Less laps in Q3? Maybe.

I remember in Monaco Sky F1 commentators saying during Q3 the track temperatures went up by 4-5 degrees. That's what I think Arrivabene is also refering to that they can't make the tires work in a wider range.

[Nand0Nand0]

Perhaps one of the challenges we are facing with the tires and getting the setup right is our lack of working experience and base-line data with our new front suspension geometry (our change from pull to push rod).