Hopefully yes. Is it correct to assume they knew we had this problem but only now we have a solution and we are trying to test it??Originally Posted by FerrariF60
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Hopefully yes. Is it correct to assume they knew we had this problem but only now we have a solution and we are trying to test it??
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What if.
What if the problem from Qualifiing in Barcelona is not a real problem but a legal cheat from the others ?
Its Emerged that teams like RB, Mercedes, Force India and others have a System to cool the Tyres so that the Pressure will not rise and maybe it goes down.
That is a real Advantage on Slow corners.
Religion? Ferrari!
Not others... there are talks just about two teams. And it was not said, which 2 teams these are.
IF YOU CAN DREAM IT, YOU CAN DO IT - ENZO FERRARI
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Maybe we were one of the teams and now that the loophole is being closed we've lost some pace. Much like the fuel pressure loop hole where we lost some performance.
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OFF TOPIC AND I KNOW IT. TO WHOM EVER HAS THE ABILITY TO DO IT , PLEASE remove Alonso's picture from our home page. http://www.thescuderia.net/ This is what's jinxing us. Act please .
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LOL!
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1429453395880_lc_galleryImage_Ferrari_drivers_Sebastian.JPG
Vous resterez toujours en nos coeurs, Jules.
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looks like rear wing is going down on the straight and going up in the low speed corners:
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That aerodynamic phenomenon on our car can't be good for slow corners right?
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Doesn't that depend on the speed in the corner. If the wing goes up as you slow down will that not increase down force in the rear of the car as the car is slowing down? At some point the aero doesn't matter anyway, all about mechanical grip, probably around 70 or 80mph or so..
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I have said this before and i was nearly ban from here. we all know what is happening just not bold enough to say it. The Chassis and the Aero team are not good enough, just see what happened at the last corner of the home straight on sunday. Red Bull knew that Ferrari would never pass them at that corner. And they wanted Vesterpen to win to make a point, so they sacrificed Ricardo knowing that Ferrari would also bring in Vettel who could have challenged Vesterpen. if Vettel has come in before Kimi and use kimi to mirror Ricardo we would have won
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Yeah, by common logic it looks like our back wing is reacting accordingly. You are right, our mechanical grip needs to be improved :/
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Vettel was able to set the fastest time in the final sector during todays testing. I hope they have learned something about what went wrong on Saturday. I am a little anxious about the updated Renault engine :(
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Im going to say what Ive thought b4, the tires I feel play a bigger part in this than people realize.
How can your car b good 1 day then bad the next? If they try a part n it doesnt work they change it.
But no one knows what each set of tires will do, n they r all different. My 2 cents.
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It's effective DF should be increasing as it goes up, lessen as it goes down (on straights). Theoretically, the flex is helping shed drag on straights & maximise DF at lower speeds. I would imagine all the cars have this happening, same as flexi front wings, which FIA checks all FW for compliance with regs.
Forza Ferrari !
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." - Juan Manuel Fangio
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Seems we're now talking about the gap to RB. Mercedes is beyond reach officially... This is gonna be a long year.
The Auto Chronicle
Technical analysis: Ferrari ramps up development push
Technical analysis: Ferrari ramps up development push
Ferrari hopes of victory at the Spanish Grand Prix were dashed by a poor qualifying, but a raft of car updates and strong race pace means the pressure is still on Mercedes
For Barcelona, the team introduced a number of developments to help close the gap and, having already focused its attention on it front wing in Russia, the Scuderia have made a concerted effort further down the car in Spain.
Front brake duct
Brembo categorises Barcelona as medium on its scale, a view shared by Ferrari which ran the disc equipped with 850 cooling holes, rather than the high use 1250 hole disc.
But there was still a concerted push to improve performance in this area, with an asymmetric brake drum layout used to radiate heat into the wheel and then tyre differently.
At the front of the SF16-H, a new brake duct inlet was employed. Whilst it might immediately seem logical that this was to improve brake cooling, as we can see above, it seems it was primarily focused on providing more airflow to the blown axle.
The blown axle is used to shape the air as it moves around the tyre. Changing the shape of the wake it creates can offer a performance benefit downstream and reduce the effort required by the front wing to turn the airflow around the tyre.
Sidepod
For Spain the sidepod inlet was reduced in size, as can be seen by the height of the yellow marking on the comparison above (Inset: old specification). The team was clearly happy that it was able to deal with the temperatures at the opening few races and set about making aerodynamic gains.
The reduction in size and change in geometry of the inlet means that the sidepod's undercut can be optimised further, improving airflow to the rear of the car, which hopefully improves the performance of the floor and diffuser too.
Rear wing and monkey seat
The rear wing is new too, although the team briefly tested it in Russia before issues with the DRS mechanism curtailed running after Friday practice there.
The changes are fairly subtle but skewed toward creating more downforce, with the mainplane and upper flap both revised. The mainplane's leading edge is tightly rolled forward, with the central portion that meets with the mounting pylon taller in comparison.
The upper flap bows in the opposite direction, with a shorter chord length in the central section. Meanwhile, both the mainplane and upper flap have a much steeper angle of attack which is perhaps most obvious towards the upper flap's trailing edge.
Supplementing the wing's steeper angle of attack, the endplates now have two gradient slots placed under the mainplane, with airflow allowed to move from outside the endplate and energise the underside of the mainplane and top flap.
To add further balance the team utilised a Y150 winglet, which encourages the exhaust plume and surrounding airflow to wash upward, providing assistance to the rear wing.f1-spanish-gp-2016-ferrari-sf16-h-detail (2).jpgf1-spanish-gp-2016-ferrari-sf16-h-front-detail.jpgf1-spanish-gp-2016-ferrari-sf16-h-detail.jpgf1-spanish-gp-2016-ferrari-sf16-h-detail (1).jpgf1-giorgio-piola-technical-analysis-2016-ferrari-sf16h-brake-duct-barcelona.jpg
Last edited by ARUN M KARUNAN; 18th May 2016 at 19:19.
Fight with passion, win with pride, lose with respect, but never give up.
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Merc last race was officially for real . The car, great as it may be , can't drive itself. Lewis will never move over, rightfully so. Ferrari needs to get Seb on pole and we will be beyond reach.
The Auto Chronicle
Sky F1's Mark Hughes on why Carlos Sainz deserves greater acclaim for his performances against Max Verstappen - and why the young Spaniard could be a contender to replace Kimi Raikkonen at Ferrari...A sensational grand prix victory for Max Verstappen in his very first race for Red Bull puts a very interesting light upon the comparative performance of Carlos Sainz alongside Max in their 23 races together at Toro Rosso.
Sainz - who also starred at Barcelona with a strong sixth-place finish, having passed Sebastian Vettel's Ferrari to run third in the early laps - has performed at a level directly comparable to that of Verstappen, who we now know is a grand prix winner. Assuming that Red Bull will now stick with its Daniel Ricciardo/Verstappen line-up for a long time, it begs the question of where Sainz can go to progress his F1 career. Staying with Toro Rosso beyond this year risks losing him the career momentum so vital to a young driver in making that professional jump from promising to top gun.
Verstappen is a huge talent, something that has never been in question. Sainz's progress through the junior ranks was not as stellar, but his career has been marked by how much progress he has made year-on-year. He is one of those drivers who just keeps getting better. Everyone is wired up differently and in the sport's history we see many examples of the phenomenal driver who looked merely okay in his early career, just as we see examples of the phenomenon who was so from day one. Think of Nigel Mansell on the one hand, Ayrton Senna on the otherTaking only those races where a straight comparison was possible, Sainz last year qualified an average of 0.025s (two-and-a-half hundredths) slower than Verstappen. Of the 12 races where that comparison was possible, the score was Sainz 7, Verstappen 5 (see table below), but the average lap time of each swung - by hundredths of a second - in Verstappen's favour. Using the same method to compare Ricciardo and Kvyat at Red Bull last year, the gap was 10 times that - at 0.261s over the 10 events in which a comparison could be made. In raw underlying pace, Sainz was vastly closer to his team mate than Daniil Kvyat was to his.
Verstappen/Sainz Qualifying comparison in 2015
Race Who was quicker? Time advantage
Australia Sainz 0.267s
China. Verstappen. 0.145s
Bahrain. Sainz 0.462s
Spain. Sainz. 0.113s
Monaco Sainz 0.026s
Canada Sainz 0.203s
Britain. Sainz 0.431s
Hungary. Verstappen. 0.088s
Singapore Verstappen. 1.259s (Sainz crashed)
Mexico Verstappen. 0.048s
Brazil Verstappen 0.033s
Abu Dhabi Sainz 0.039s
Read more at http://googleweblight.com/?lite_url=...cHumApmzf4UDCw
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What does this have to do with our development program ?
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indeed, i see no correlation with our team for this caseWhat does this have to do with our development program ?
Mai Dare Sulla Speranza, Forza Ferrari!!
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Plese help me.I wanted to understand this question to all members who know.
Question
1 How much have Ferrari tokes for today
2 In Canada or Austria they bring new turbo or engine?
Oficiale information please
Last edited by farid-baku; 20th May 2016 at 08:56.
Banned
"The Maranello outfit's weaknesses in qualifying were highlighted at last weekend's Spanish Grand Prix, when Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen were outqualified by both Mercedes and Red Bull after big struggles in the heat of Saturday afternoon.
The fact that its pace returned on race day – albeit could not be shown because both Vettel and Raikkonen got trapped behind the Red Bulls – confirmed that it is not a fundamental car design nor engine problem that it is facing.
Instead, on a weekend when paddock chatter was dominated by talk of tyre pressures and the advantages that some teams have got from clever management of them, Ferrari thinks it is an area that it needs to urgently improve.
In particular, Ferrari sources state their belief that rivals Mercedes and Red Bull have found clever (albeit still fully legal) ways to optimise the pressures that help lift the performance of their cars.
Starting pressures
In the wake of the tyre failures at last year's Belgian Grand Prix, Pirelli and the FIA tightened up on the procedures for minimum tyre pressures.
Whereas before F1's tyre supplier had merely recommended a minimum pressure, from Monza last year an actual minimum starting pressure was enforced in the regulations by the FIA.
At Monza, Mercedes fell foul of this when the tyres on Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg's cars were found to be below that limit when checked on the starting grid.
While issues with the timing of the readings cleared the team of any wrongdoing, it was obvious that competitors would be trying to lower the pressures as much as possible once the measurements had been taken.
It was suspected that a growing trend among front-runners (Mercedes was spotted doing this from the Japanese Grand Prix) of heating up the brakes prior to qualifying and the race was about warming the air inside the tyres once the wheels were fitted – thereby temporarily increasing the pressure at the moment the checks were made.
If teams were then able to rapidly cool the inside area of the wheels after the checks were taken through clever ducting, then it would in theory lower the pressures much nearer the ideal levels for when the car was running.
Big gains
The benefits for anyone able to legally pass the starting pressure checks and then run below it are clear.
At Barcelona, for example, the minimum starting pressure of the rears was 19.5Psi – whereas teams would ideally like to be in the region of 17Psi. The closer teams can get to the 17Psi figure, the better.
There is also a vicious circle for those who are not able to control the pressures. A higher pressure can result in overheating the tread, which raises the tyre temperature and subsequently increases the pressure even further.
With the contact patch being progressively made smaller, the tread temperature increases further and can spiral out of control unless a driver backs off.
The situation can be exacerbated with the kind of high track temperatures that we saw on Saturday afternoon in Spain – and in the medium and slow speed corners that are typical of the final sector in Spain where Ferrari especially lost out to rivals Mercedes and Red Bull.
Trick devices
Although there is no suggestion any teams are acting illegally, it is fairly widely accepted that some outfits are doing a better job in managing pressures than the others.
There have been suspicions of teams potentially using trick technology, like valves or rims that slowly leak air to lower the pressure over a set period of time.
At the Russian Grand Prix, McLaren asked for clarification from the FIA about the potential to develop certain devices that could help manage pressures.
For example, one of the ideas was to have a double-chambered wheel rim that had a small bleed hole in-between.
The proposal was that the outer chamber would be filled with higher pressure air to ensure the tyres were above the minimum pressure limit, while the inner chamber would have less pressure.
The hole would be small enough not to allow the higher pressure air to escape instantly – but over a short period of time the pressure in the two chambers would equalise, lowering the overall pressure the tyre was being run at.
The FIA made clear, however, that such ideas were a breach of the regulations, and, as is standard practice, its response to McLaren was circulated to all teams.
So in stating to McLaren its belief on the illegality of it, it de facto outlawed anyone who could have been employing such a device.
In further correspondence, McLaren suggested that to prevent the need for an all-out spending war by teams having to find ways to better manage tyre pressure, that a rule change be made to switch F1 from a 'starting' pressure to a 'running pressure'.
Unfair disadvantage
The problem for some teams is that, with Pirelli suspecting some are able to have a lower running pressure than a starting pressure, it has to raise the starting pressure higher than is ideal to take this drop into account.
For those teams that are not so well-equipped to manage the pressure, it hands them at instant disadvantage because the tyres are operating well outside their ideal operating window.
A 'running' pressure limit would alleviate such a problem, as all teams would then be faced with a more level playing field when cars are actually running.
But introducing and enforcing a minimum 'running' pressure is not so straightforward, because there is no standard way of monitoring pressures right now – and especially no way of doing it live. Teams are using a variety of sensors to measure pressures – with no strict calibration.
Furthermore, a lot of the electronics used for the sensors are being operated in temperatures well beyond what they are designed for – which leaves them exposed to failures.
It was interesting to note that in Spain last weekend Renault appeared to have suffered such a failure when the pressure sensor on Palmer's left rear tyre that failed in practice continued to register a 19.6Psi reading even after it had deflated.
One idea that has surfaced is for there to be a tender opened for F1 to appoint a control tyre pressure sensor which all teams would then use.
For now, it is a long-term project and will only go ahead if the FIA concludes that teams are acting in a way that is against the spirit of the rules.
For Monaco, teams have been asked to log their tyre pressure readings through the FIA's Standard Data Recorder – which will provide a decent database for the governing to try to understand what is happening with cars out on track and pick out if anything nefarious is going on.
Ferrari action
Ferrari knows it cannot wait for the rules to change to be sure that it is not losing out to any rivals, so has to play catch-up in being better able to use the pressures to its advantage.
That was why this week's test at Barcelona was so crucial for helping it to better evaluate the impact of pressures on the performance of its tyres throughout qualifying simulations.
Sebastian Vettel's test-topping time during one of those runs – which was quicker than he had managed on Saturday afternoon when his pace faded – suggested some answers had been found.
Those lessons will now have to be applied to an actual session in the hope that it will be able to lift its single lap pace.
And there is no bigger test for it than the streets of Monte Carlo, where next week's qualifying for the Monaco Grand Prix is so critical to the result on Sunday ".
It seems that tire pressure is the problem
George Kabardis
We have 6 tokens left (we had 9 from winter and spend 3 on Sochi upgrades in the combustion chamber).
For the turbo in Canada ,we heard it only from rumours (no official statemts ) and they say it will cost us another 2 tokens.
FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!
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What the whole article boils down to me is that other teams appear to be much better at innovating and pushing the envelope than The Scuderia has shown to be lately. There seems to be a disturbing trend at Ferrari to simply copy others innovations rather than find our own. Then, being Ferrari and pretty much having our pick of drivers, we get the best we can and hope that they will lift a middle of the road car to the top.
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Well we did come up with the fuel pressure idea that was outlawed last year and the louvers on the back of the rads.
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Ferrari have definitely started to innovate over the last 2 years or so. But no single team will be in front in all areas, even when Ferrari were dominating they weren't ahead in all areas. Its normal a competitor will have an advantage and others will copy. I think Ferrari are on an upward trajectory so I am sure we will see more teams copy Ferrari again in the near future...
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We also have movable RW that is legal because our pylon going through exhaust. It produces less drag and then coming into corner it moves back creating DF. I think we definitely innovate more, lets wait some time and have confidence in team.
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Interesting stuff on the tire pressure, hopefully we are on top of it now.
Mostly I get the impression that the team has been frustrated by the start of the season. They have belief in the car and are seeing enough to show this car has mighty potential. Frustrations with not being able to max the potential of the PU (until we can bring upgrades) and simply learning this radically new and vastly changed car.
I still believe this could be the best car on the grid. Hopefully we get things sorted, aligned and have that dash of good luck and we see a few dominant wins from the team. That's what I'm dreaming about .... I'm also dreaming that I'm the pilot
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