Grand Prix De Monaco 2017 - Race

[mizf1]

I have been a Ferrari fan since 2007 (yes since Kimi moved to Ferrari). Since then they also moved away from the strict no. 1 / no. 2 policy.
I/m no mad max fan, although i live in the Netherlands. I even prefer Kimi over Max. I think it's unfair to a former WDC (a Ferrari WDC) to be treated this way.
It's al over the news that there is something going on inside of Ferrari. Below you finds some quotes.

"According to Toni Vilander, things were very heated after the race inside Ferrari garage, and Kimi's race engineer Dave Greenwood was very angry because they felt Kimi wasn't treated equally"

#Kimi7: 'If you have no confidence in your team it gets really complicated. As a driver I can also stop the car but I trust them' #MonacoGP

Raikkonen:"We have certain rules and we all know it. We go with those. I dont know what happened." #MonacoGP #F1

Hamilton: Ferrari F1 team is favouring Vettel over Raikkonen

It's pretty obvious what happened today. Ferrari is back to a clear no. 1 / no.2.
That's not the way formula 1 should be. Both Merc and Red Bull are treating both drivers the same way. And that's how it should be.

You sure your not trolling? Newly registered and who cares what Hamilton says, have people got a short memory and forgotten Bahrain this year with the Mercs ?

[Nero Horse]

Ha ha. I watched formula 1 since 1990. He was controlling the pace. In Monaco there is no overtaking possible.
I reffer to the quote from the man himself:


Raikkonen:"We have certain rules and we all know it. We go with those. I dont know what happened." #MonacoGP #F1.

There's a nice summary from another forum. I quote Grunge.

"As expected its the same arguments from both sides going back and forth.. Over and over.. Personal bias is an inevitable confounder in any analysis, even one that is made on "objective" grounds eg actual scientific research so you can forget about opinions on an internet forum being completely neutral.

My opinion remains the same.. To me only the most devoted of Ferrari/Vettel followers would be able to say this wasnt planned and keep a straight face at the same time.. It very clearly was.
We saw hamilton and rosberg in the exact same position every weekend for the past two years.. Many a times the one behind was apparently putting in faster laps than the one in front.. No matter how many things one can accuse Toto of, this is where he never budged.. Never once did we see the one behind getting a priority pit strategy in order to make him pass the guy in front.

2. The "Vettel was faster all weekend" claim doesnt hold up.. The same claim is instantly rubbished when KR does the same in practice but is superceeded in qualifying... FPs dont mean anything... The times dont mean anything.. In the end at Monaco, its the Q3 time that matters.

3 "Vettel screwed up quali" claim.. Again completely wrong. He kept mentioning that oh i went to deep in turn 5, was too greedy... But the fact of the matter is that even his 3 best sectors dont add up to beat Kimis final run.. If anything, KRs three best sectors assembled,wouldve beaten SVs best hypothetical attempt by 2 tenths.

4. "Vettel wae faster all race" argument... No he wasnt faster "all throughout" . Kimi maintained a 2 plus sec gap after the first 10 laps..it came down below one sec only when Kimi had to make his way through backmarkers and then went back to 1.7sec range once he was clear. The assumption that he was so much faster but was unable to show it because of being stuck behind KR is all pure conjecture.. For all we know this was the maximum he had as well..
Now yes, he was faster once kimi pitted and then for 3 more laps.. Yet again yer comparing those times with Kimi on a different compound, one which takes longer to heat up and the fact that he made his way right into the back of Jenson Button and other backmarkers ahead.
Even if that low 15s lap is considered to be faster than what KR couldve done all race, how does that possibly validate a pitstop shuffle leading to the two drivers exchanging positions?...as in just because he was faster for 4 odd laps at one point in the race qualifies him to be preferred over the guy that got pole on saturday and had lead the race till then?

4.for all this supposed superior speed, Vettel got the lead by less than a second and that second he made up only during the pitstop.. 0.6 sec faster coming in to his spot and then stop being 0.4 sec quicker.... So inspite of this "scorching speed" and kimi getting stuck behind backmarkers, he only barely got out ahead.without the sec he made up in the pits, he wouldve come out behind KR.

5."ferrari had to pit Kimi to protect him from Bottas".. Wrong again... Vetter came out almost sode by side to Kimi.. If anyone was at risk of being undercut by Bottas, it was Vettel not Kimi.... And anyone and his mother could see Bottas stuck behind backmarkers after his stop and that there was no way he was going to make ground there anyway..
Vettel himself said post race that Kimi was told to pit to cover for Bottas... So basically the driver leading the race was sacrificed to cover the threat behind while the in 2nd went on to get the optimal strategy.

6. "Vettel wouldve come out ahead, had he even pitted eerlier"... Again pure conjecture..had he been pitted in kimis place, he wouldnt have shown that" unbelievable" speed in the next four laps that he did and wouldve come back right behind Button on the slower, lazier SS compound.. Meanwhile Kimi wouldve been told to go crazy on the next 2 laps before he comes in and there in no way Vettel wouldve made his way thru the traffic fast enough to come out ahead.
Fact is stopping late was the priority strategy today. It was clear to Ferrari, it was clear to RB.

Where did you get that ridiculous summary from? From the "United Kimi fans" forum? LOL

Like was said before, stop trolling and move along. There wasn't any team play or conspiracy, no matter how much you want to believe that there was.

[DelMar]

We saw hamilton and rosberg in the exact same position every weekend for the past two years.. Many a times the one behind was apparently putting in faster laps than the one in front.. No matter how many things one can accuse Toto of, this is where he never budged.. Never once did we see the one behind getting a priority pit strategy in order to make him pass the guy in front. Meanwhile Kimi wouldve been told to go crazy on the next 2 laps before he comes in and there in no way Vettel wouldve made his way thru the traffic fast enough to come out ahead.
Fact is stopping late was the priority strategy today. It was clear to Ferrari, it was clear to RB.

Ok our new troll, Merc just asks the driver in front to move over. Remember last year Monaco??? This year Bottas-Hamilton?

Vettel was not just faster for 4 odds laps. Didn't you see how he put 12+ seconds gap to Kimi till the safety car?

If it was clear to RBR, why did they pit Verstappen? Also why did Mercedes feel the need to respond to Verstappen stop with Bottas?

Your favorite driver was not fast enough today, move on...

[Greig]

Where did you get that ridiculous summary from? From the "United Kimi fans" forum? LOL

Like was said before, stop trolling and move along. There wasn't any team play or conspiracy, no matter how much you want to believe that there was.

+1

[F2008]

Kimi was impressive in qualifying but simply outpaced by Vettel today. Anyway great to see a Ferrari 1-2, it has been a while...

[FerrariSteve]

Hamilton: Ferrari F1 team is favouring Vettel over Raikkonen

It's pretty obvious what happened today. Ferrari is back to a clear no. 1 / no.2.
That's not the way formula 1 should be. Both Merc and Red Bull are treating both drivers the same way. And that's how it should be.

LOL.. does rapper boy not understand irony? twice THIS season already his teamate as been told to let him past and once his teammate was told to ruin his own race to slow Seb down so the rapper kid could catch up.

[Not my team]

No it's from the autosport forum. you guys don't care who wins as long as it is a Ferrari driver. No matter if they are treated fair.
You're totaly biased. I'll come back when Max races for Ferrari against the wonder boy. that would be fun.

[Greig]

No it's from the autosport forum. you guys don't care who wins as long as it is a Ferrari driver. No matter if they are treated fair.
You're totaly biased. I'll come back when Max races for Ferrari against the wonder boy. that would be fun.

So Ferrari should have let Kimi win to be fair? how would that be fair on Vettel who had the pace to win?

Kimi had the lead and the chance to open a gap on Seb if he was quicker, fact is he never.

[PURE PASSION]

Fact is that Seb would've won this race with undercut, overcut or whatever cut, because he just had better pace than Kimi, no question about it. And it's also a fact that some people would be moaning no matter how the pit strategy would've been set for the drivers. If Ferrari had left Kimi out longer then all the Kimi fans would be crying that Ferrari left him out too long on used tyres, and now that Ferrari did the courteous thing by bringing him (as the leader of the race) in first they're still not happy. The only way that people wouldn't be whining right now is if Seb would've just slowed down without using all that pace he had and just let Kimi finish in front. What people don't seem to understand is that Seb was just much faster and that enabled him to make the overcut work in his favor. There was no team play or any conspiracy, Seb was the fastest driver on the track and won fair and square. Kimi and Kimi fans can only blame Kimi himself for not driving faster, although the backmarkers didn't help Kimi's case either, but the biggest problem was just Kimi's lack of pace.

+100000000000!!!!!!!!!!!

[Seb]

This probably was Kimi's best chance of a win this year and he didn't take it, and thats why Vettel is our number 1, he takes everything he can get and works hard for it! Kimi didn't fight after the pits, just gave up and accepted 2nd

[wappad]

No it's from the autosport forum. you guys don't care who wins as long as it is a Ferrari driver. No matter if they are treated fair.
You're totaly biased. I'll come back when Max races for Ferrari against the wonder boy. that would be fun.

So you ARE a frustrated Max- fan..

Please mr. Marchionne: Go for Ocon, Sainz, Perez if you are looking for a new man.

Leave my fellow- countryman at Red Bull..

[Giallo 550]

This was a total dissaster today. Favouring cry cry baby Vettel over his teammate. Have u seen those faces yesterday when Kimi got pole. I should have been the other way around. Today they made it. This is not good for the sport. I now sincerely hope that Hamilton gets WDC. Maybe Kimi should knock out Vettel, like Vettel did last year.

Your user name speaks volumes. You're probably a sour grapes Hamilton fan who came here to rain on our parade.

[Red is Best]

Watching live it looked to me as if Raikonnen got the short end of the stick, but in hindsight Vettel was just quicker. I think it would have made no difference if he pitted before Kimi.

[Giallo 550]

So Ferrari should have let Kimi win to be fair? how would that be fair on Vettel who had the pace to win?

Kimi had the lead and the chance to open a gap on Seb if he was quicker, fact is he never.

Hammer meets nail.

[Not my team]

Your user name speaks volumes. You're probably a sour grapes Hamilton fan who came here to rain on our parade.

I'm no Hamilton fan ha ha. I'm a die hard Kimi fan. I just can't stand the way the are treating there former WDC.
But you Ferrari guys can't get objective.

[Stormy]

Max is a sour grape. I think he is implying conspiracies with some of his words and body language in his post-race interviews.

[Seb]

Max is a sour grape. I think he is implying conspiracies with some of his words and body language in his post-race interviews.

One of the many reasons why I hope he never drives for us.

[icedeepan]

I'm no Hamilton fan ha ha. I'm a die hard Kimi fan. I just can't stand the way the are treating there former WDC.
But you Ferrari guys can't get objective.

The second placed drivers from both Ferrari and RB (Seb and Daniel) overcut their leading drivers (Kimi and Max) after the pit stops. Do you really think Ferrari and RB would have foreseen this and yet put their leading cars on a less optimal strategy? Today, it simply was that the overcut ended up being the way to go and it was tough luck for the boys in the front, but thats racing.

Remember Spain last year when it conspired the opposite way when Max and Kimi got the better of Seb and Daniel. What goes around comes around.

[IulianFerrari]

Think if Kimi pitted one lap after Seb he would still be in the lead and win the race, it was the simple solution and not covering Bottas, who was not the main threat, from the driver win perspective. But the fact of the matter is Kimi had to open up a gap and he just had 1 sec, he knew he needed a gap to win, he didnt get it and Seb won. Too much talk about this.

[Tony79]

Wow!! We get the first 1-2 in 7years and rather than celebrating people are squabbling! Pretty sure this is a FERRARI forum! The team did a great job today and we shouldn't forget that given less than six months ago people on here were wondering where the hell the next podium was coming from!!!

Kimi did well yesterday in qualy but his pace today wasn't strong enough... he was slower than the fresh tyred bottas and max so ferrari called him in. Don't think anyone thought that Seb would drop into low 15's but did so and had to stay out because ricciardo was doing awesome times too. I like Kimi but today just wasn't his day. It wasn't team orders - they just wanted to ensure a one - two and that they did. I'd rather vettel won because all the moaners today would be singing a different tune come November if he finished second today and lost the title by 6 points.

[Not my team]

comment from other fora:

Autosport "ISLI"
1I dislike Ferrari action. Far too early for teamoders. After maybe 10 or more races it can for myopinion be ok. I fear potentially nice season is now over and its one more 2 horse race this time diffrent teams thought. Poor thing for sports (some Hamilton / Vettel fan may be diffrent story). I haven't seen Kimi so Angry. Well only small part of F1 is sport and bigger part business. Bottas and Kimi would still have had fair change to WDC. Now it has been taken for sports fans. Sad day for sports. They never learn in Ferrari. Kimi changes in end of 2007 was in theory far lesser. We know outcome. Lets see how motivated Kimi is in future. I hope still bit.

[Greig]

comment from other fora:

Autosport "ISLI"
1I dislike Ferrari action. Far too early for teamoders. After maybe 10 or more races it can for myopinion be ok. I fear potentially nice season is now over and its one more 2 horse race this time diffrent teams thought. Poor thing for sports (some Hamilton / Vettel fan may be diffrent story). I haven't seen Kimi so Angry. Well only small part of F1 is sport and bigger part business. Bottas and Kimi would still have had fair change to WDC. Now it has been taken for sports fans. Sad day for sports. They never learn in Ferrari. Kimi changes in end of 2007 was in theory far lesser. We know outcome. Lets see how motivated Kimi is in future. I hope still bit.

Thanks for the update. I am sure posting opinions of other people from other forums will greatly change how everyone feels.

[Stormy]

It seems like Ted Kravitz from Sky is not extremely biased after all. I just watched his notebook and he said that Ferrari did the logical thing pitting Kimi at that time as Mercedes were also trying to undercut with Bottas. Who would've knew staying out longer would've been better? Merc and RB definitely didn't...

And no need to feed this new troll here.

[Not my team]

Thanks for the update. I am sure posting opinions of other people from other forums will greatly change how everyone feels.

Fine by me. Today was a total farce by mister Arrivaderderci. Oh no his name is Arrivabene (the spaghetti eater).

[Not my team]

It seems like Ted Kravitz from Sky is not extremely biased after all. I just watched his notebook and he said that Ferrari did the logical thing pitting Kimi at that time as Mercedes were also trying to undercut with Bottas. Who would've knew staying out longer would've been better? Merc and RB definitely didn't...

And no need to feed this new troll here.

Ted Kratitz hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[darkchild]

Ted Kratitz hahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

Mate, you are quoteing Hamilton to prove your "point". A guy who is main competitor with Sebastian

[da_one]

Wow this has got to be the worst 1-2 in the history of the Scuderia! I don't get why we are debating a non-issue, instead of celebrating our first 1-2 in a looooong time.

Team orders weren't in play today. The team pitted Kimi first to cover both Verstappen and Bottas. If you watched the race, these two guys were leading their team mates and were trying to undercut Kimi. Ferrari reacted by giving preference to the lead driver,, hence Kimi's pitstop. It turned out that the undercut didn't work for all three drivers- Kimi, Verstappen, and even Bottas. Even Max got frustrated and said colorful words on the radio when he found out that Ric got ahead of him.

Now how did Kimi lose the lead? First, it was due to the backmarkers. It took him a while to overtake them which helped Vettel and even Bottas to close the gap. When he had clean air, Kimi did not capitalize and from then on, it was already too late as Vettel stuck behind him until Kimi pitted. Second reason is that once Kimi pitted, Vettel had a clear track and did monster laps which was enough to get ahead of Kimi after his own pitstop.

If their places were reversed, I'm sure they would have pitted Vettel first to cover the other lead drivers of the rival teams. The team wouldn't have known that the overcut is the better strategy either way.

Sure Kimi is disappointed now but if he would look at the telemetry, he would realize that Vettel outclassed him in this race and no team orders were in play. I sure hope he doesn't lose confidence with the team and not get demotivated as we need him to win the WCC.

[sxviper698]

Team orders would have made total sence today anyways. I don't think they did but it worked out anyway for Ferrari. We would look silly if we lost the WDC by a few points at the end of the year if we didn't do it today. I don't care who wins the races but it needs to be RED.

[erinha]

No it's from the autosport forum. you guys don't care who wins as long as it is a Ferrari driver. No matter if they are treated fair.
You're totaly biased. I'll come back when Max races for Ferrari against the wonder boy. that would be fun.

You do realize this is pretty much how Max won in Spain last year too, right? Ricciardo and Vettel were ahead of their teammates and they were doing the standard strategy that was expected to be preferable. Then the team gave Verstappen and Raikkonen the alternative strategy which suddenly gave them the advantage (and Verstappen the win) over their teammates. Sometimes it's not clear which strategy is the best. People tried the undercut as well today if you paid any attention to Max's race too, but they couldn't make it work.

Also, funny that you've come to the Ferrari forum and you are calling people "biased". What a surprise!
Never mind that no human being can ever be objective anyway, but you sure sound like you believe you are.

But you are trolling, so it doesn't matter what anyone says really...

[Stormy]

The only way Ferrari could've fixed Seb to win is if Kimi was driving slower on purpose, that's the only way. Kimi's strategy made perfect sense.