Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2017 - Race

[REDARMYSOJA]

Hamilton's telemetry was already checked and found OK.

People keep claiming that, but show me where the FIA stewards actually said that. The only place that says it is some news reports, but they don't give any quotes about it from the stewards. The only thing the stewards ruled on was that Vettel hit Hamilton. Here's what the steward's report says...

From The FIA Stewards of the Meeting

To The Team Manager,

Scuderia Ferrari

Document 45
Date 25 June 2017
Time 20:08

2017 AZERBAIJAN GRAND PRIX

The FIA Stewards of the Meeting

The Stewards, having received a report from the Race Director, examined video evidence, have
considered the following matter and determine the following:

No / Driver 5 - Sebastian Vettel
Competitor Scuderia Ferrari
Time 17:44
Session Race

Fact Car 5 collided with car 44 in Turn 16.

Offence Breach of Article 27.4 of the FIA Formula One Sporting Regulations.

Decision 10 Second Stop and Go penalty.

(3 penalty points awarded, 9 points total for the 12 month period)

Reason The Stewards examined video evidence which showed that car 5 drove alongside and
then steered into car 44.

The Stewards decide this manoeuvre was deemed potentially dangerous.

Paul Gutjahr Enzo Spano
Danny Sullivan Anar Shukurov

That's the only decision from the stewards on the incident. You can find them here.

http://www.fia.com/events/fia-formul...information-30

If the stewards had reviewed Hamilton's telemetry and made a decision about him they would have released a statement saying so. Unless someone can produce an actual document from the stewards saying they reviewed Hamilton's data and arrived at a decision regarding him, I call it bogus, just press fanboys who want Vettel hung from the gallows.

[ALO]

come on Seb just apologize so they'll leave us alone and drop the further investigation. We dont need this kind of trouble with such a close title race.

i think his lack of remorse is putting future points and wins in jeopardy.

[killer]

This is simply too much about nothing. He's been penalized; if he got off light, then the event stewards are to blame.

I'm sorry but I feel this is PC in action. If the roles were reversed, all I'd want from the officials is fair judgement... and for Seb to get Lewis back come the next race--and then they call it even. Anyone who's played any competitive sport I'm sure gets this.

Funny how the F1 world wants to go all macho extreme with loud engines, faster cars, harder racing, and even harder drivers... only to get its knickers in a twist over something like this.

[Stormsearcher]

come on Seb just apologize so they'll leave us alone and drop the further investigation. We dont need this kind of trouble with such a close title race.

i think his lack of remorse is putting future points and wins in jeopardy.

Hmm... yeah it does seem like it. More than one person has publicly noted that Vettel not accepting/apologising for his actions is rubbing ppl the wrong way.
If he is smart, and he does seem to be, he will do what is needed to get this mess past him so future races and points wont be jeopardised.

[Stormsearcher]

This is simply too much about nothing. He's been penalized; if he got off light, then the event stewards are to blame.

I'm sorry but I feel this is PC in action. If the roles were reversed, all I'd want from the officials is fair judgement... and for Seb to get Lewis back come the next race--and then they call it even. Anyone who's played any competitive sport I'm sure gets this.

Funny how the F1 world wants to go all macho extreme with loud engines, faster cars, harder racing, and even harder drivers... only to get its knickers in a twist over something like this.

Agreed. Its done with. The race is over and hes taken the penalty. Opening this up again is a bit ridiculous. And i suspect its cause his penalty didnt 'punish' him as it was meant to and he still ended up extending the lead over LH. If he had finished behind LH, no one would have bothered IMO.

[House]

DDZ_2t_FXc_AAa_W9.jpg

I really think that what Vettel did was wrong and he deserved the punishment , but I think that what Hamilton did was wrong and deserved to be punished

People say that this graph is an evidence that Hamilton did nothing wrong . I actually see that it is a bullet proof evidence that he acted abnormally.


I will begin with what Hamilton done normally at turn 14 , which consists of 3 parts :

1- Descending line of braking until the apex .

2- Just after the apex there is a flat line where there is no braking nor accelerating . This happens when the driver stop braking and getting ready for accelerating after exiting the corner . If your intentions not to accelerate we will not see that small flat line . we would see steady descending line from entering the corner until exiting it .

3- Ascending line of acceleration .


Now , what Hamilton did at turn 15 was really different to that :

1- Normal descending line until the apex as he did before .

2- This is where Hamilton bluffed Vettel . As I said before if Hamilton intentions was to decelerate we would see a steady descending line from entering to exiting the corner with out that small flat line which would appear only when Hamilton stop breaking and getting ready for accelerating . Actually if you looked to the flat line (the right red circle) you will see at the end of it a moment where Hamilton slightly accelerated . That means that his foot was on the gas at that moment , which is a proof that his intentions was not to decelerate from the beginning .

3- After that flat line and the slight moment of acceleration , Hamilton decided to remove his foot from the gas and brake in the same place where the normal thing to do is to accelerate (even going flat would be abnormal at that point) . And he used the brakes as much as he used them while braking for entering the corner . So he acted like he was entering an imaginary new corner .

By the way this graph also proves that Vettel didn't accelerate at all from the apex and after . As some people claim that Vettel was the cause of it .

[Tony]

If you want to go into the hypothetical side of it. Vettel should have won the race had he not done what he did ...

I'm including an assumption that somehow the hit Vettel gave Hamilton caused dislodged the headrest... might not be the case but that was the assumption I was working with...

[mwk360]

I'm including an assumption that somehow the hit Vettel gave Hamilton caused dislodged the headrest... might not be the case but that was the assumption I was working with...

but didnt Ham and Vettel come out of the car for the red flag before he's headrest wasnt put right?

[mwk360]

DDZ_2t_FXc_AAa_W9.jpg

I really think that what Vettel did was wrong and he deserved the punishment , but I think that what Hamilton did was wrong and deserved to be punished

People say that this graph is an evidence that Hamilton did nothing wrong . I actually see that it is a bullet proof evidence that he acted abnormally.


I will begin with what Hamilton done normally at turn 14 , which consists of 3 parts :

1- Descending line of braking until the apex .

2- Just after the apex there is a flat line where there is no braking nor accelerating . This happens when the driver stop braking and getting ready for accelerating after exiting the corner . If your intentions not to accelerate we will not see that small flat line . we would see steady descending line from entering the corner until exiting it .

3- Ascending line of acceleration .


Now , what Hamilton did at turn 15 was really different to that :

1- Normal descending line until the apex as he did before .

2- This is where Hamilton bluffed Vettel . As I said before if Hamilton intentions was to decelerate we would see a steady descending line from entering to exiting the corner with out that small flat line which would appear only when Hamilton stop breaking and getting ready for accelerating . Actually if you looked to the flat line (the right red circle) you will see at the end of it a moment where Hamilton slightly accelerated . That means that his foot was on the gas at that moment , which is a proof that his intentions was not to decelerate from the beginning .

3- After that flat line and the slight moment of acceleration , Hamilton decided to remove his foot from the gas and brake in the same place where the normal thing to do is to accelerate (even going flat would be abnormal at that point) . And he used the brakes as much as he used them while braking for entering the corner . So he acted like he was entering an imaginary new corner .

By the way this graph also proves that Vettel didn't accelerate at all from the apex and after . As some people claim that Vettel was the cause of it .

Thank you! very informative

[Ed Harley]

What is the source of this graph?

[House]

What is the source of this graph?

it is unofficial but used by forums and social media to prove HAM was right
like the unofficial statements that claimed that fia found nothing wrong with what HAM did

https://twitter.com/SmilexTech/statu...30281016758273

[Greig]

While I don't think Lewis brake tested Seb I would welcome the FIA looking at it again just to make sure, but I do worry they are going to punish Seb further. If they give him 3 points he would be banned from Austria....I imagine Ferrari would protest this and then that might see him banned at Silverstone if they lost an appeal...I am going to Silverstone and have paid a lot of money and I wanna see our drivers in action not sat in the stand, but I doubt the FIA consider fans too much when they go down race bans.

[Zerocool]

Even though Hamilton did not brake as per the stewards he slowed down very much intentionally!!!!, because he saw the he caught vettel off guard in the previous restart and now he was sure that wasn't gonna happen this time when he saw vettel behind his gearbox and hence I say he tactically tricked vettel and pulled him into the trick. And when you find you have been tricked you obviously get angry. I support vettel at all cost!!!!!!!!

[ALO]

Hmm... yeah it does seem like it. More than one person has publicly noted that Vettel not accepting/apologising for his actions is rubbing ppl the wrong way.
If he is smart, and he does seem to be, he will do what is needed to get this mess past him so future races and points wont be jeopardised.

Yeah last time he appoligized to Charlie that was enough

[mwk360]

Even though Hamilton did not brake as per the stewards he slowed down very much intentionally!!!!, because he saw the he caught vettel off guard in the previous restart and now he was sure that wasn't gonna happen this time when he saw vettel behind his gearbox and hence I say he tactically tricked vettel and pulled him into the trick. And when you find you have been tricked you obviously get angry. I support vettel at all cost!!!!!!!!

same

[Giallo 550]

I stand by my notion that even though Hamilton may not have used his brake to check Vettel, he relied on engine braking to slow to a ridiculous level.

[Rosso Corsa]

At the very least, Lewis's driving was too unpredictable for the situation. Sure, he wants to be unpredictable to get the jump, but not so unpredictable that you cause a collision. I think the safety car system could be better tweaked to avoid this silliness but still be an exciting restart.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Stormy]

If there was any damage done to Lewis' car then I would understand a race ban. However, it was only a harmless wheel-to-wheel bump at 40 kph. Some people are so sensitive, jeeez!!

[Stormy]

I'm including an assumption that somehow the hit Vettel gave Hamilton caused dislodged the headrest... might not be the case but that was the assumption I was working with...

Doubt it, Merc would be the first one to come out and blame it on Seb, if that was the case.

[f412]

LOL.jpg

[f412]

so this is what fia said, or i heard that fia said ...... that lewis's telemetry showed that he didnt entirely break or lift off.... so he did lift off and break... not entirely...but he did nonetheless... so my question is ,normally when brack testing happens in a race..usually it happens before a corner where the driver ahead breaks early...so im asumming fia will consider it as a breaktest if the driver stomped on the breaks too early.... but how can they take parameters of brake test done at high speeds where the driver will actually have to stomp on the breaks, to this scenario where every one is driving at a snail's pace...where a slight tap on break and lift off is more than enough to slow down a car,and say that the later didnt entirely break or lift off to cause a breaktest...isnt this logic just stupid?? cause in those speeds u dont have to break hard or lift off entirely to breaktest another car....a slight tap or lift is more than enough...

[killer]

While I don't think Lewis brake tested Seb I would welcome the FIA looking at it again just to make sure, but I do worry they are going to punish Seb further. If they give him 3 points he would be banned from Austria....I imagine Ferrari would protest this and then that might see him banned at Silverstone if they lost an appeal...I am going to Silverstone and have paid a lot of money and I wanna see our drivers in action not sat in the stand, but I doubt the FIA consider fans too much when they go down race bans.

Surely giving him additional penalty points is an indictment of their judgement in Baku. But yeah this is the almighty FIA.

[Stormy]

While I don't think Lewis brake tested Seb I would welcome the FIA looking at it again just to make sure, but I do worry they are going to punish Seb further. If they give him 3 points he would be banned from Austria....I imagine Ferrari would protest this and then that might see him banned at Silverstone if they lost an appeal...I am going to Silverstone and have paid a lot of money and I wanna see our drivers in action not sat in the stand, but I doubt the FIA consider fans too much when they go down race bans.

You want to say that if Seb gets a race ban for Austria he can get even one more additional race ban if Ferrari complains? Damn, that's brutal! We can't even complain and protest.

[ferrari4life]

You want to say that if Seb gets a race ban for Austria he can get even one more additional race ban if Ferrari complains? Damn, that's brutal! We can't even complain and protest.

no he means the race ban will be delayed a race for a follow up hearing.

[flam147]

Agree with most of what you said but I don't think Vettel "purposely" crashed into Hamiltons car. Vettel made the manuever, got along side him and took his left hand off the wheel while

leaving his right hand ON the steering wheel and proceeded to gesture towards Hamilton; Vettel not paying attention and moved right hitting Hamilton. Idiot (Vettel).

Here's Brundles take on the situation per his twitter page:

https://twitter.com/MBrundleF1/statu...87919181275136

it is like a reflex action if you look to the right you will steer to the right (cant remember where i read it)

[Stormy]

no he means the race ban will be delayed a race for a follow up hearing.

Oh, i see. Thanks.

[stefa]

This new F1 is for wussies and brats... I miss good old days....

[mwk360]

its should be called "Mercedes F1 starring Ham feat. those other people" the way FIA & broadcasts are handling everything

[stefa]

its should be called "Mercedes F1 starring Ham feat. those other people" the way FIA & broadcasts are handling everything

[Greig]

Lewis can brake there is he wants really, the only issue would be if he stamped on the brakes which the FIA said he never. There is no rules about him not being allowed to brake.