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Thread: Ferrari 2020 Challenger Thread

  1. #601
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    What do you guys think? a tenth at most?

    Maybe 2-3 if there was a floor upgrade too.

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cavallino View Post
    What do you guys think? a tenth at most?

    Maybe 2-3 if there was a floor upgrade too.
    if it were in combo with an upgraded floor maybe 2-3 tenths....just minor tweaks on front wing....a tenth if we're luck

  3. #603
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    Ferrari should have two updated packages for the Styrian GP, one per car. Very hard work in the last few days to make this possible. The gains should be around 0"3 per lap, although given the short lenght of the track the gains could be smaller this weekend.

    #F1 #StyrianGP
    FERRARI FOR EVER !!!!!!!

  4. #604
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    Let's hope for rain during qualifying and the race to equalize the field.

    Otherwise, given these "upgrades", it looks like were in the mid-fiels yet again if the track is dry.

    Oh well.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  5. #605
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    For me it doesn’t make any difference. Ferrari will be struggling, only Lec or vettel should save the day.

  6. #606
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    They are trying to compare the new direction of design with the old one here, hoping its right. So they have to try single pieces alone to see that. I hope that this plus setup corrections should give us 3 tenths, enought to be third car

  7. #607
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Let's hope for rain during qualifying and the race to equalize the field.

    Otherwise, given these "upgrades", it looks like were in the mid-fiels yet again if the track is dry.

    Oh well.
    .3 should put you ahead of the midfield on merit.

  8. #608
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    Ferrari do not follow other teams with design concepts.They roll the dice with there own design concepts this time they are struggling and the dice has rolled against Ferrari.Now they have to dig them selves out of this development hole before it's to late, this situation will test the current Ferrari structure to the limit.It will be boom or bust.

  9. #609
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    Friday 10 July at 09:35 : Jul.10 (GMM) Carlos Sainz says he is not yet worrying about his move to Ferrari for 2021.

    The Spaniard will replace Sebastian Vettel, but he will presumably not enjoy a substantially better car than the German as the current machines are being carried over to 2021 for reasons of cost.

    Asked if he is therefore particularly worried about Ferrari's performance, Sainz insisted: "Not really. As you say I'm not thinking about any carry-over of their form to next year.

    "I'm confident they've always been at the top in Formula 1 and they will make it back there sooner rather than later. At the moment I'm happy to fight them on track," he said.

    In Austria last weekend, it was Sainz's McLaren teammate Lando Norris who managed to chase home Charles Leclerc for an unlikely early podium.

    But the Briton says he is expecting Ferrari to speed up.

    "Ferrari will show its strengths throughout the season. I think they still have the better overall package," said Norris.

    Ferrari has rushed some new parts, including front and rear wings and a revised floor, to Maranello for the second race in Austria.

    "It will be a good sign of whether we are right or wrong in the direction of our ideas," Sebastian Vettel said.

    But the biggest problem for Ferrari is not aerodynamics, but engine power. Many believe the Italian team was hobbled by the FIA as a result of the engine illegality saga of 2019.

    "There is a lot of speculation, but it's not useful to join in on that," Kimi Raikkonen, who drives a Ferrari-powered Alfa Romeo, told C More.

    "We are trying to do the best with what we have."

    Another Ferrari-powered driver - Haas' Romain Grosjean - was more forthright, admitting he was "shocked" that his Maranello-made engine power is "much lower" than it was last year.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1000RR View Post
    Friday 10 July at 09:35 : Jul.10 (GMM) Carlos Sainz says he is not yet worrying about his move to Ferrari for 2021.

    The Spaniard will replace Sebastian Vettel, but he will presumably not enjoy a substantially better car than the German as the current machines are being carried over to 2021 for reasons of cost.

    Asked if he is therefore particularly worried about Ferrari's performance, Sainz insisted: "Not really. As you say I'm not thinking about any carry-over of their form to next year.

    "I'm confident they've always been at the top in Formula 1 and they will make it back there sooner rather than later. At the moment I'm happy to fight them on track," he said.

    In Austria last weekend, it was Sainz's McLaren teammate Lando Norris who managed to chase home Charles Leclerc for an unlikely early podium.

    But the Briton says he is expecting Ferrari to speed up.

    "Ferrari will show its strengths throughout the season. I think they still have the better overall package," said Norris.

    Ferrari has rushed some new parts, including front and rear wings and a revised floor, to Maranello for the second race in Austria.

    "It will be a good sign of whether we are right or wrong in the direction of our ideas," Sebastian Vettel said.

    But the biggest problem for Ferrari is not aerodynamics, but engine power. Many believe the Italian team was hobbled by the FIA as a result of the engine illegality saga of 2019.

    "There is a lot of speculation, but it's not useful to join in on that," Kimi Raikkonen, who drives a Ferrari-powered Alfa Romeo, told C More.

    "We are trying to do the best with what we have."

    Another Ferrari-powered driver - Haas' Romain Grosjean - was more forthright, admitting he was "shocked" that his Maranello-made engine power is "much lower" than it was last year.
    I have the Suspiscion that Ferrari have been oblieged to take the PU from 2017/18 because from 2019 on the PU was in parts Illegal

  11. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smintlemon View Post
    I have the Suspiscion that Ferrari have been oblieged to take the PU from 2017/18 because from 2019 on the PU was in parts Illegal
    still i do not think that 2017/18 PU was this bad.

  12. #612
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    Ferrari under Binotto' era is producing tortoise cars on the ground. This period is hurted me so much. Then my wife said "you should switch to other team for your loving" it is really sad, how I can do that :(.

  13. #613
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziz View Post
    still i do not think that 2017/18 PU was this bad.
    2017 engine is a tortoise. Step was made with 2018 engine Spec 2.

  14. #614
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    Seems like disqulification would have been better then reaching a secret settlement with fia.Not much of a settlement look at the results after settlement.

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Seems like disqulification would have been better then reaching a secret settlement with fia.Not much of a settlement look at the results after settlement.
    Settlement was done to avoid the official label of "cheating".

  16. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aziz View Post
    still i do not think that 2017/18 PU was this bad.
    Actually, i think that is about right. But if that is the case, then we were doing A LOT more than just bypassing a sensor.

    Anyway, we'll have ONE shot to bring a new engine in these 2 years due to the token system, and we will probably use it to start next season. Hopefully that one will have the normal progress in addition to what they can bring from the past 2 years that isn't illegal, but couldn't due to time constraints.

  17. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhiepka View Post
    Ferrari under Binotto' era is producing tortoise cars on the ground. This period is hurted me so much. Then my wife said "you should switch to other team for your loving" it is really sad, how I can do that :(.
    my wife said the exact same words. I am really upset on ferraris performance. I love the team. I mean they should have had atleast a plan b with their engine especially when other teams were questioning the legality

  18. #618
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF1 View Post
    my wife said the exact same words. I am really upset on ferraris performance. I love the team. I mean they should have had atleast a plan b with their engine especially when other teams were questioning the legality
    Right, it implies we didn't do anything to our engine in terms of legtimate development, just put all our eggs in one basket.

  19. #619
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    For Ferrari to lose about 1 second a lap over their 2019 car due to engine is not just a 10-20 horsepower deficit. We are talking 50-75 hp easy. I am not sure Ferrari hasn't reverted to a 2016 spec of power levels. I can't help but think they have been developing an illegal concept since 2017. I can't imagine how they are so far behind in terms of power.

  20. #620
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    Great driving and wheel to wheel combat driving will be what Charles has to do. He's qualified for sure.

  21. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS454 View Post
    For Ferrari to lose about 1 second a lap over their 2019 car due to engine is not just a 10-20 horsepower deficit. We are talking 50-75 hp easy. I am not sure Ferrari hasn't reverted to a 2016 spec of power levels. I can't help but think they have been developing an illegal concept since 2017. I can't imagine how they are so far behind in terms of power.
    Has there also been a full audit of Mercedes car and engine?

  22. #622
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    Has there also been a full audit of Mercedes car and engine?
    No they are in bed with the whole F1 circus.

  23. #623
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    It's certainly worrying how slow we are in a straight line. The engine being a big part of that but also aero decisions to supplement that straight line speed have seemingly now changed? The car still looks a handful under braking. Listening to the lack of traction in Qualifying yesterday just seemed to accentuate our issues. The power we have got we can't even get down to the wheels!? Everyone struggling the same in the wet but ours sounded worse, it was more noticeble we were wheel spinning half way down from turn 2.
    Last edited by patrese86; 12th July 2020 at 10:36.

  24. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    Has there also been a full audit of Mercedes car and engine?
    Masashi Yamamoto did say he was impressed with the way Mercedes have managed to improve so much of there PU during lockdown. The insinuation is clear and it's a thought I've had more than once also.

  25. #625
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    What bothers me most here is the lack of an assertive or fighting attitude from the current Ferrari leadership in dealing with the FIA and other teams.

    I wonder how the issue would have been dealt with under Marchione and Arrivabene? Or Jean Todt?

  26. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrese86 View Post
    Masashi Yamamoto did say he was impressed with the way Mercedes have managed to improve so much of there PU during lockdown. The insinuation is clear and it's a thought I've had more than once also.
    That's a good point.

  27. #627
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    I really hope for the sake and hopes of all those people here that believed during pre season testing that Ferrari was sandbagging, although awakening was rude, that now they can open their eyes and say THERE IS NO SANDBAGGING, at least not within Ferrari team!

  28. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPZ View Post
    That's a good point.
    I think Horner said something similar., will Ferrari do anything about it?.... doubt it.

    And even Red Bull, their engine failed last weekend, under this token system, Ferrari have to watch what these other teams are doing for "reliability" like hawks.

  29. #629
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    This is what i think has happened to Ferrari... and it goes way back to when Mercedes first had their "Party" Mode so like maybe towards end of 2017... Mercedes had their Party mode and Ferrari needed to respond quickly, they found a "loophole" in the regulations, which allowed them to bypass the fuel limit set out by the regulations. At the time Ferrari probably thought that this is what Mercedes were doing, not knowing that Merc had actually developed a system that was within the regulations and not bypassing/breaching the fuel limiter.

    Ofc, we all thought, ok well Ferrari have done it,they have found out how Merc party mode has worked and replicated it, and a lot better it would seem! Now that we have been caught out with the new fuel regulators its all out in the open. We developed a car around an Engine which as fans we thought was legal(which i believe now was not) for 2 to 3 years! We have NO party mode, the Ferrari runs in Q1,2, and 3 without upping the power like they used to. The car is not too bad in Race mode, but it is defintly not as powerful as the past. So forget about party modes, we never developed one to begin with. This leaves me to believe earlier this year that Cyril Abiteboul was completely spot on. The Renault engine is faster than ours, and more than likely the slowest Engine on the grid. Don't be surprised if you see the likes of Haas suing Ferrari or leaving for the Mercedes Engine.

    Binnotto is a great guy, but not a team principle for the likes of Ferrari. We need someone that will take authority, responsibility, and is respected within the team. Arrivebene's time, unfortunately, was short-lived at Ferrari, but i think he had the right mentality to run our team as a Team Principal. Binnoto did well running the technical side of things, but I feel he lacks the support and respect needed to be a TP.

    In conclusion, our car has been designed with last year's engine in mind, as well as our performance in the corners, which has made an extremely draggy car that has left us completely exposed for the world to point and laugh at. FIA didn't need to punish us, what we will see for the next two years, is the punishment fitting the crime. I Love my team, and will always support them, but something needs to change, and it should start with Louis Camilleri

  30. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicRac View Post
    This is what i think has happened to Ferrari... and it goes way back to when Mercedes first had their "Party" Mode so like maybe towards end of 2017... Mercedes had their Party mode and Ferrari needed to respond quickly, they found a "loophole" in the regulations, which allowed them to bypass the fuel limit set out by the regulations. At the time Ferrari probably thought that this is what Mercedes were doing, not knowing that Merc had actually developed a system that was within the regulations and not bypassing/breaching the fuel limiter.

    Ofc, we all thought, ok well Ferrari have done it,they have found out how Merc party mode has worked and replicated it, and a lot better it would seem! Now that we have been caught out with the new fuel regulators its all out in the open. We developed a car around an Engine which as fans we thought was legal(which i believe now was not) for 2 to 3 years! We have NO party mode, the Ferrari runs in Q1,2, and 3 without upping the power like they used to. The car is not too bad in Race mode, but it is defintly not as powerful as the past. So forget about party modes, we never developed one to begin with. This leaves me to believe earlier this year that Cyril Abiteboul was completely spot on. The Renault engine is faster than ours, and more than likely the slowest Engine on the grid. Don't be surprised if you see the likes of Haas suing Ferrari or leaving for the Mercedes Engine.

    Binnotto is a great guy, but not a team principle for the likes of Ferrari. We need someone that will take authority, responsibility, and is respected within the team. Arrivebene's time, unfortunately, was short-lived at Ferrari, but i think he had the right mentality to run our team as a Team Principal. Binnoto did well running the technical side of things, but I feel he lacks the support and respect needed to be a TP.

    In conclusion, our car has been designed with last year's engine in mind, as well as our performance in the corners, which has made an extremely draggy car that has left us completely exposed for the world to point and laugh at. FIA didn't need to punish us, what we will see for the next two years, is the punishment fitting the crime. I Love my team, and will always support them, but something needs to change, and it should start with Louis Camilleri


    you couldn't have said it better. Well said Ric
    Drive it like you stole it!

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