Move Ferrari to England and get a Merc engine....

**Greig** · 5th July 2020, 19:05

Would that please most if it meant we won titles?

Does it matter to anyone that Ferrari are Italian and based in Italy, does it matter if they make their own engine?

Would they even be Ferrari anymore if they did?

**jgonzalesm6** · 5th July 2020, 19:19

Move Ferrari F1 to England.

Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.

**nani_s23** · 5th July 2020, 19:26

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Move Ferrari F1 to England.

Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.

I agree...!!

**ferrari1.8t** · 5th July 2020, 19:28

The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

So no, moving team is not the answer.

**Stormsearcher** · 5th July 2020, 19:31

Move to england if it meant better tech personnel. We can still build our own engines and it will still be an italian team.

**nani_s23** · 5th July 2020, 19:35

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

So no, moving team is not the answer.

Ferrari base would be in Italy. It’s just they need to get rid of correlation data issues.
Set up another base in England & hire. Instead of pouring so much on drivers & other stuff, just correct your data. If not the best, be at least competitive.

**JPZ** · 5th July 2020, 19:41

I would not want to see Ferrari leave Maranello.

**ferrari1.8t** · 5th July 2020, 19:53

Originally Posted by nani_s23

Ferrari base would be in Italy. It’s just they need to get rid of correlation data issues.
Set up another base in England & hire. Instead of pouring so much on drivers & other stuff, just correct your data. If not the best, be at least competitive.

There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.

**jgonzalesm6** · 5th July 2020, 19:55

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.

Just the F1 dept.....not the whole Ferrari company.

**Tony** · 5th July 2020, 20:14

How quickly some forget how well Ferrari were doing under Sergio Marchionne... may he rest in peace...

There are teams in the UK that are also not able to progress and have done nothing for 10-15 years... there is definitely a question of lack of competence in the current Ferrari organization. This needs to be corrected quickly.

Maybe they should also consider leaving F1 and going to Indycar... i watched a race over the weekend, there must have been over 100 passes made, it was much closer racing and much more exciting than the current iteration of F1 where there is too much politics and where the rules are stifling the sport because teams do not have the budget.

**jgonzalesm6** · 6th July 2020, 14:59

Originally Posted by Tony

How quickly some forget how well Ferrari were doing under Sergio Marchionne... may he rest in peace...

There are teams in the UK that are also not able to progress and have done nothing for 10-15 years... there is definitely a question of lack of competence in the current Ferrari organization. This needs to be corrected quickly.

Maybe they should also consider leaving F1 and going to Indycar... i watched a race over the weekend, there must have been over 100 passes made, it was much closer racing and much more exciting than the current iteration of F1 where there is too much politics and where the rules are stifling the sport because teams do not have the budget.

Those teams don't have money like Ferrari IF Ferrari was already in the UK 10 or 15 years ago.

No, Ferrari should not leave F1.......ever.

Ferrari did try to protest in the psst with a full scale fully drivable Indycar entry.....but Ferrari did'nt enter it. With the budget cap now looming, it's a possibility to shift some of those "lost" resources to Indycar??

**Hornet** · 6th July 2020, 15:45

I'd rather see Ferrari leave F1 than to race with a Merc engine.
The engine is the heart of the car. Can't call it a Ferrari car if it's running someone else's engine

As far as talent goes, I dont believe that Ferrari team must be lead by an Italian only. Ferrari should get the best people out there, irrespective of their nationality.

**WS6TransAm01** · 6th July 2020, 20:22

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Move Ferrari F1 to England.

Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.

Exactly.

Engines can still be built in Maranello, but engineering can take place in England. The engineers don't need to be in Italy to send designs there. I have projects all over the country without being in every one of those places all the time. You can even have the composites manufacturing in Maranello.

They need to move the engineering department to a location where they have a greater pool of talent to hire from. I village of 17,000 people isn't enticing to many aspiring engineers. It's really simple.

Having your engineering department in England doesn't make them an English team either. Merc's engineering base is in England but they are still considered a German team. Stop the stupidity.

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ferrari F1 is a sports team/business, not a charity.

**PURE PASSION** · 6th July 2020, 20:54

Personally i dont like the idea of Ferrari being outside Maranello. It might become better team but i will different in my eyes !!!!

**F2008** · 6th July 2020, 21:12

As if Britons are the only people in the world who can design an F1 car ... WW2 ended a long time ago, and so did their superpower status. The "Motorsport Valley" is no more than a remnant of it. I am convinced that if brands such as Renault, Mercedes and Honda had an ongoing factory team in F1 like Ferrari instead of making an appearance from time to time by buying an England-based team (Benetton/Toleman, BrawnGP/Tyrell/BAR...) when it suits them, they wouldn't be located in England at all.

**watto2** · 6th July 2020, 21:16

Ferrari is Maranello but Formula 1 of which Ferrari is one of the building blocks prospers mainly in the Northampton shire, Oxford shire and Buckingham shire area of England with Renault and Mercedes based here. I'm sure they make some components abroad but the knowledge is based here

**WS6TransAm01** · 7th July 2020, 11:41

Originally Posted by F2008

As if Britons are the only people in the world who can design an F1 car ... WW2 ended a long time ago, and so did their superpower status. The "Motorsport Valley" is no more than a remnant of it. I am convinced that if brands such as Renault, Mercedes and Honda had an ongoing factory team in F1 like Ferrari instead of making an appearance from time to time by buying an England-based team (Benetton/Toleman, BrawnGP/Tyrell/BAR...) when it suits them, they wouldn't be located in England at all.

No one is saying “only Britons can design F1 cars” what is being said is that a greater number of top level engineers are willing to be in or relocate to England than Italy. Therefore if the design team for Ferrari was in England they would have access to a grater pool of talent. Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.

**Gerhard Berger** · 7th July 2020, 13:02

Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01

No one is saying “only Britons can design F1 cars” what is being said is that a greater number of top level engineers are willing to be in or relocate to England than Italy. Therefore if the design team for Ferrari was in England they would have access to a grater pool of talent. Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.

Ferrari used to have this setup in the mid 90s and it brought no success. John Barnard had his design office setup in England. Chief Designer Gustav Brunner was also working out of England.

Ferrari only became successful after Todt decided this setup was not feasible in the long run and moved everything back to Maranello.

Since then, Ferrari have attracted a very diverse set of people in terms of nationality with many British nationals. Off the top of my head:

Brawn (British)
Byrne (South African)
Dyer (Australian)
Smedley (British)
Tombazis (Greek)
Czapski (British)
Allison (British)
Simon (French)
De Beer (South African)
Clear (British)
Fry (British)

I don't believe Ferrari being based in Maranello is hindering them. If anything it's an advantage to have both the engine and design departments next door to each other. No other team has that advatange.

**jgonzalesm6** · 7th July 2020, 13:20

Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger

Ferrari used to have this setup in the mid 90s and it brought no success. John Barnard had his design office setup in England. Chief Designer Gustav Brunner was also working out of England.

Ferrari only became successful after Todt decided this setup was not feasible in the long run and moved everything back to Maranello.

Since then, Ferrari have attracted a very diverse set of people in terms of nationality with many British nationals. Off the top of my head:

Brawn (British)
Byrne (South African)
Dyer (Australian)
Smedley (British)
Tombazis (Greek)
Czapski (British)
Allison (British)
Simon (French)
De Beer (South African)
Clear (British)
Fry (British)

I don't believe Ferrari being based in Maranello is hindering them. If anything it's an advantage to have both the engine and design departments next door to each other. No other team has that advatange.

Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.

**Gerhard Berger** · 7th July 2020, 13:31

Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01

Exactly.

Engines can still be built in Maranello, but engineering can take place in England. The engineers don't need to be in Italy to send designs there. I have projects all over the country without being in every one of those places all the time. You can even have the composites manufacturing in Maranello.

That seems wholly inefficient.

They need to move the engineering department to a location where they have a greater pool of talent to hire from. I village of 17,000 people isn't enticing to many aspiring engineers. It's really simple.

Do you really think Milton Keynes or Brackley is that much more enticing?

I understand that some Brits might not been keen on moving themselves (and their family) to Italy (Newey being a prime example), but the evidence suggests that many of the top Brits are happy to make the move.

**WS6TransAm01** · 7th July 2020, 13:32

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.

Excellent point.

Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger

That seems wholly inefficient.

Do you really think Milton Keynes or Brackley is that much more enticing?

I understand that some Brits might not been keen on moving themselves (and their family) to Italy (Newey being a prime example), but the evidence suggests that many of the top Brits are happy to make the move.

as jg said, it doesn't seem to last.

Brackley is an hour and a half outside of London, as in Milton Keynes. London is to Europe as NYC is to the US. Personally I'd rather be 90' outside of London and 2 hours outside of Rome.

**Gerhard Berger** · 7th July 2020, 13:36

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

He did just fine at Mclaren...

Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

There will always be turnover regardless of nationality. Even the Italians will come and go.

Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.

A move like this has a lot of costs involved. It's not something that should done on a whim or as a knee jerk reaction to a poor start to the season.

Looking back at what happened with Barnard does give us insights into the difficulties of such a setup.

**WS6TransAm01** · 7th July 2020, 13:44

Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger

A move like this has a lot of costs involved. It's not something that should done on a whim or as a knee jerk reaction to a poor start to the season.

Except it's not just one season. It's 12.

**Gerhard Berger** · 7th July 2020, 13:57

Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01

Excellent point.

as jg said, it doesn't seem to last.

Brackley is an hour and a half outside of London, as in Milton Keynes. London is to Europe as NYC is to the US. Personally I'd rather be 90' outside of London and 2 hours outside of Rome.

Have you been to Brackley or Milton Keynes? They are not glamorous places. Guys working for Mercedes or Red Bull will be living in those places. They won't be living in London or working in London!

Maranello is closer to Milan by the way.

**Gerhard Berger** · 7th July 2020, 13:58

Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01

Except it's not just one season. It's 12.

12 poor starts to the season? Please list them. Seems like you have very high standards. Certainly 17 and 18 were not poor.

I guess Mclaren should re-consider their base in Woking given the number of poor starts to the season they've had! Perhaps they should move to Italy!

**WS6TransAm01** · 7th July 2020, 14:18

Originally Posted by Gerhard Berger

12 poor starts to the season? Please list them. Seems like you have very high standards. Certainly 17 and 18 were not poor.

I guess Mclaren should re-consider their base in Woking given the number of poor starts to the season they've had! Perhaps they should move to Italy!

You're right. I am not talking about starts. I am talking about 12 poor seasons as a whole.

McLaren has other issues.

**gvera** · 7th July 2020, 17:06

Originally Posted by ferrari1.8t

The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

So no, moving team is not the answer.

I completely agree with you, thinking of a british Ferrari or using Mercs engine is just blasphemous.

**Liscia** · 7th July 2020, 17:32

Originally Posted by gvera

I completely agree with you, thinking of a british Ferrari or using Mercs engine is just blasphemous.

Those are my sentiments as well. I had a longer reply ready yesterday but found yours covered how I felt more than adequately, thanks.

**Greig** · 7th July 2020, 17:37

Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01

Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.

Newey's wife did not want to move not Newey, Allison left to go home after the death of his wife, he had previously already been at Ferrari so clearly had no issue moving to Italy, he did not leave because of anything to do with Italy.