StyrianGP 2020: RACE

[stefa]

All the factories were shut down
https://www.racetechmag.com/2020/04/...tory-shutdown/

Plus those mask you think ferrari designed are bought in, red bull now use them, and mclaren been using same ones all thebtine aswell.

Real reason for whats going on is simple. Team's protested ourbcar last year as we were quick, we got caight doing something merc been doing all the time but we got punished. But. Everyone not looking at merc engine, again thisnyear they smoking, oil smoke neen seen number of times. But apparently thats ok they just topping up oil to high. We did it. Oh we cheating, look at the engines.

Also, tracing point. Seems ok to copy a car. Haas looked abit like our car couple years ago, all hell broke loose.

Which leads to the thing many people over here are saying that FIA always has a blind eye when it comes to Mercedes...?!

[Arcana]

All the factories were shut down
https://www.racetechmag.com/2020/04/...tory-shutdown/

Plus those mask you think ferrari designed are bought in, red bull now use them, and mclaren been using same ones all thebtine aswell.

Real reason for whats going on is simple. Team's protested ourbcar last year as we were quick, we got caight doing something merc been doing all the time but we got punished. But. Everyone not looking at merc engine, again thisnyear they smoking, oil smoke neen seen number of times. But apparently thats ok they just topping up oil to high. We did it. Oh we cheating, look at the engines.

Also, tracing point. Seems ok to copy a car. Haas looked abit like our car couple years ago, all hell broke loose.

Those are only speculations. If you can't build an engine to match Mercedes it doesn't mean Mercedes are cheating. Maybe they are, but maybe they are not. And if they are cheating, the other teams are clueless about what to protest in regards with the Mercedes engine. Horner and Marko are not passive and don't take crap from anyone, if they have the occasion or find something they will protest right away. They denoted Lewis 3 positions last week and for good reason. Max has a big mouth but was spot on: we were cheating last year and most likely the year before. FIA made us a big favour by hiding the "agreement" details.

[RicRac]

This is what i think has happened to Ferrari... and it goes way back to when Mercedes first had their "Party" Mode so like maybe towards end of 2017... Mercedes had their Party mode and Ferrari needed to respond quickly, they found a "loophole" in the regulations, which allowed them to bypass the fuel limit set out by the regulations. At the time Ferrari probably thought that this is what Mercedes were doing, not knowing that Merc had actually developed a system that was within the regulations and not bypassing/breaching the fuel limiter.

Ofc, we all thought, ok well Ferrari have done it,they have found out how Merc party mode has worked and replicated it, and a lot better it would seem! Now that we have been caught out with the new fuel regulators its all out in the open. We developed a car around an Engine which as fans we thought was legal(which i believe now was not) for 2 to 3 years! We have NO party mode, the Ferrari runs in Q1,2, and 3 without upping the power like they used to. The car is not too bad in Race mode, but it is defintly not as powerful as the past. So forget about party modes, we never developed one to begin with. This leaves me to believe earlier this year that Cyril Abiteboul was completely spot on. The Renault engine is faster than ours, and more than likely the slowest Engine on the grid. Don't be surprised if you see the likes of Haas suing Ferrari or leaving for the Mercedes Engine.

Binnotto is a great guy, but not a team principle for the likes of Ferrari. We need someone that will take authority, responsibility, and is respected within the team. Arrivebene's time, unfortunately, was short-lived at Ferrari, but i think he had the right mentality to run our team as a Team Principal. Binnoto did well running the technical side of things, but I feel he lacks the support and respect needed to be a TP.

In conclusion, our car has been designed with last year's engine in mind, as well as our performance in the corners, which has made an extremely draggy car that has left us completely exposed for the world to point and laugh at. FIA didn't need to punish us, what we will see for the next two years, is the punishment fitting the crime. I Love my team, and will always support them, but something needs to change, and it should start with Louis Camilleri

[alfaromeo]

In this F1 with this rules and English fia I don’t believe anything. Now have Mercedes advantage and rules are freezing, to many coincidence. And I think that English teams took advantage COVID 19. The truth is somewhere in between. A great team like Ferrari has to respond to the course of the season and not make excuses for really weird rules in a time of mercedes dominance. During the time of Schumacher and the Red Bull, the rules changed so that the competition could work, but now they are actually favoring the Fia Mercedes. Why? In all likelihood, money is behind it.

[samboozik]

But they have problem with wind tunnel correlation...

Ferrari is like phone stuck in a bootloop

[nani_s23]

#AMuS GPS data shows that Red Bull loses their time on the straights and in fast corners (against Mercedes). The Honda engine lacks power compared to the Mercedes engine. At Red Bull, they are talking about 0.3s to 0.4s that they are missing at full load.
#AMuS The power deficit is more evident in the race than it is in qualifying.

Mercedes engineer explains: "In the race, Honda switches off the MGU-K earlier than we do. Over one lap they can boost it longer."

#AMuS In slow corners, Red Bull is faster than Mercedes. The Hungaroring has more slow corners than the Red Bull Ring. Everyone will drive with maximum downforce. Engine power plays a much smaller role there.

Mercedes says: "At the Hungaroring we can compare the cars better."


Some body said RB is an average car.

As said yesterday Mercs engine is the benchmark now. Honda is the next. Then comes Renault, last is ferrari.

[ferras]

#AMuS GPS data shows that Red Bull loses their time on the straights and in fast corners (against Mercedes). The Honda engine lacks power compared to the Mercedes engine. At Red Bull, they are talking about 0.3s to 0.4s that they are missing at full load.
#AMuS The power deficit is more evident in the race than it is in qualifying.

Mercedes engineer explains: "In the race, Honda switches off the MGU-K earlier than we do. Over one lap they can boost it longer."

#AMuS In slow corners, Red Bull is faster than Mercedes. The Hungaroring has more slow corners than the Red Bull Ring. Everyone will drive with maximum downforce. Engine power plays a much smaller role there.

Mercedes says: "At the Hungaroring we can compare the cars better."


Some body said RB is an average car.

As said yesterday Mercs engine is the benchmark now. Honda is the next. Then comes Renault, last is ferrari.

Ferrari pace similar to McLaren. In other tracks maybe be even better, because Austria is more suitable for McLaren. So how did you decide that Renault > Ferrari?

[JPZ]

All the factories were shut down
https://www.racetechmag.com/2020/04/...tory-shutdown/

Plus those mask you think ferrari designed are bought in, red bull now use them, and mclaren been using same ones all the time aswell.

Real reason for whats going on is simple. Team's protested our car last year as we were quick, we got caught doing something merc been doing all the time but we got punished. But. Everyone not looking at merc engine, again this year they smoking, oil smoke been seen number of times. But apparently thats ok they just topping up oil to high. We did it. Oh we cheating, look at the engines.

Also, tracing point. Seems ok to copy a car. Haas looked abit like our car couple years ago, all hell broke loose.

I have noticed smoke from the Mercedes engines too, several times.

Would like to see their car and engine get a full audit as well.

[nani_s23]

Ferrari pace similar to McLaren. In other tracks maybe be even better, because Austria is more suitable for McLaren. So how did you decide that Renault > Ferrari?

This is what the concept is 2018 & 2019 cars

Is 2018 car strong on all types of tracks? Remember here we used to compare
Mercs fastest on slow corners & we are fastest in medium corners. We were gaining everything on straights compared to Mercs. Loosing everything in corners. Then how do we call 2018 as title winning car

Just for this reference only I have raised or posted above news. So that we can validate easily.

One more thing in 2 races so far ferrari pace is not equal to McLaren at any point at least in 1st race. As 2nd race we couldn’t validate it due to DNFs.

[WS6TransAm01]

All the factories were shut down
https://www.racetechmag.com/2020/04/...tory-shutdown/

Plus those mask you think ferrari designed are bought in, red bull now use them, and mclaren been using same ones all the time aswell.

Real reason for whats going on is simple. Team's protested our car last year as we were quick, we got caught doing something merc been doing all the time but we got punished. But. Everyone not looking at merc engine, again this year they smoking, oil smoke been seen number of times. But apparently thats ok they just topping up oil to high. We did it. Oh we cheating, look at the engines.

Also, tracing point. Seems ok to copy a car. Haas looked abit like our car couple years ago, all hell broke loose.

Conjecture, but let's say that was the case, we got caught. So what? Mass damper much? There was no need to agree with a two year engine freeze. It highlights how impotent and meek the team leadership is. They put their tail between their legs and cower. You think Todd would have been that week? You think Wolff would? Or Horner/Mateschitz? Hell no. They have balls, they would have told the FIA to eat if they knew that they were agreeing to something which would cause their team to be utter crap for two years straight.

You think Ferrari will somehow emerge from this in 2022 in the lead? No chance. Benotto Ferrari in the A for at least 5 more years with his spinless antics.

[Tony]

All the factories were shut down
https://www.racetechmag.com/2020/04/...tory-shutdown/

Plus those mask you think ferrari designed are bought in, red bull now use them, and mclaren been using same ones all the time aswell.

Real reason for whats going on is simple. Team's protested our car last year as we were quick, we got caught doing something merc been doing all the time but we got punished. But. Everyone not looking at merc engine, again this year they smoking, oil smoke been seen number of times. But apparently thats ok they just topping up oil to high. We did it. Oh we cheating, look at the engines.

Also, tracing point. Seems ok to copy a car. Haas looked abit like our car couple years ago, all hell broke loose.

Exactly!

Seems like the double standard is clear for everyone to see.... the real question is why? What are Mercedes doing that benefits F1 so much that it gets away with this?

[ferras]

This is what the concept is 2018 & 2019 cars

Is 2018 car strong on all types of tracks? Remember here we used to compare
Mercs fastest on slow corners & we are fastest in medium corners. We were gaining everything on straights compared to Mercs. Loosing everything in corners. Then how do we call 2018 as title winning car

Just for this reference only I have raised or posted above news. So that we can validate easily.

One more thing in 2 races so far ferrari pace is not equal to McLaren at any point at least in 1st race. As 2nd race we couldn’t validate it due to DNFs.

What are you talking about? Merc is the best in mid speed corners for a long time. Ferrari main key was straights and slow speed corners(especially in 2019), because they had the best acceleration on the out of the corner. Pace in one direction fast speed corners was similar to Merc. In different directions (snake(S) shape corners) best for RBR.
Mid speed corners is the answer why Merc were so strong in the second half of the 2017 and 2018 seasons. Overall, i think medium speed corners are the key to win the title.

So, in my opinion this year Ferrari is too draggy. Only engine, can't do that much damage, especially in wet conditions.

[PURE PASSION]

Also, tracing point. Seems ok to copy a car. Haas looked abit like our car couple years ago, all hell broke loose.

https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/ra...paign=widget-1

[nani_s23]

What are you talking about? Merc is the best in mid speed corners for a long time. Ferrari main key was straights and slow speed corners(especially in 2019), because they had the best acceleration on the out of the corner. Pace in one direction fast speed corners was similar to Merc. In different directions (snake(S) shape corners) best for RBR.
Mid speed corners is the answer why Merc were so strong in the second half of the 2017 and 2018 seasons. Overall, i think medium speed corners are the key to win the title.

So, in my opinion this year Ferrari is too draggy. Only engine, can't do that much damage, especially in wet conditions.

So ferrari doesn’t have title winning car in 2018?

[ferras]

So ferrari doesn’t have title winning car in 2018?

Definitely no. Do you remember how many problems with tyres we had? Do you remember those different tires that worked well for Mercedes(2/3 races they won in big advantage)? Q we lost many times +0.4s, +0.5s, +0.8s. Why we even talking about that.

Yes, Seb and team made some mistakes, but the main reason why we lost was the car. Also, Merc had many reliability issues that allowed Ferraris to stay ahead.

[nani_s23]

Definitely no. Do you remember how many problems with tyres we had? Do you remember those different tires that worked well for Mercedes(2/3 races they won in big advantage)? Q we lost many times +0.4s, +0.5s, +0.8s. Why we even talking about that.

Also, Seb and team made some mistakes, but the main reason why we lost was the car.

Good to hear... at least you agree with me It’s not only vettel mistakes it car too which didn’t live up in 2nd half of the season with Mercs.

[ferras]

Good to hear... at least you agree with me It’s not only vettel mistakes it car too which didn’t live up in 2nd half of the season with Mercs.

There were also reliability issues in first half of the season that Mercedes had with their hydraulic system.

[Greig]

Conjecture, but let's say that was the case, we got caught. So what? Mass damper much? There was no need to agree with a two year engine freeze. It highlights how impotent and meek the team leadership is. They put their tail between their legs and cower. You think Todd would have been that week? You think Wolff would? Or Horner/Mateschitz? Hell no. They have balls, they would have told the FIA to eat if they knew that they were agreeing to something which would cause their team to be utter crap for two years straight.

You think Ferrari will somehow emerge from this in 2022 in the lead? No chance. Benotto Ferrari in the A for at least 5 more years with his spinless antics.

All teams agreed to it, even your beloved Horner's team.

[Cavallino]

I remember when Ferrari used to have political power. I remember the days of the all conquering F2004.

Jean Todt took no mercy, and wanted to win EVERY race, nothing less than a 1-2 was acceptable. If we ever get back on top, it's no mercy, token systems, no one is allowed to catch up. 20 years of dominance. That's the way it SHOULD be.

[nani_s23]

During yesterday's race, you could see that Mercedes was using DAS (not only behind the SC). The interesting aspect is that during those phases, the steering wheel was not completely pulled, which probably means they can control its https://twitter.com/gianludale27/sta...520784384?s=21

[nani_s23]

Before doing his interview with French media, @Charles_Leclerc told them he needs to talk to Seb first, so he waited until Seb finished his interview with RTL and talked/apologized to him first

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/sta...698842114?s=21

[nani_s23]

#AMuS Vettel stands behind his team : "It was a great achievement of the factory to bring forward the complete upgrade by one week. My feeling is it's doing what it's supposed to do. But we must also realize that we would have liked to have seen a bigger step forward."

[nani_s23]

RTL: Did Lewis show everything he got?

Toto Wolff: No, he still had reserves

Congrats Mercs & Lewis for 7th title.

[WS6TransAm01]

All teams agreed to it, even your beloved Horner's team.

Beloved? Whatever.

Again, totally missed the point. Horner agreed because he saw a benefit, eliminating Ferrari's ability to develop their engine to be on par or above the power of Merc. This makes it easier for RBR to battle Merc, no Ferrari in the way. Worst case, they come in 2nd and get more money.

Merc agreed because they didn't want Ferrari to challenge them, and know they can handle RBR.

Why in the hell, knowing full well they would have an inferior engine for two years, did Ferrari agree? I'll tell you why; because Ferrari's team leadership are nothing but spinless, pusillanimous, worthless wimps. So what they got caught? Take a hard line. No engine freeze or Ferrari walks. After Liberty Media group wipes the poop out of their pants, they and the FIA back down. Ferrari are F1 and F1 is worthless to anyone without Ferrari. No way would Liberty Media invest billions to lose it. Not the hill they would die on, and if they call, don't bluff. Ferrari leaves. Tops, one season Liberty/FIA come crawling back kissing every butt cheek they can find at Maranello.

A team principle at Ferrari needs to be able to crack skulls not be an emo douche, listening to the Cure in the back of the garage while the whole thing burns down around him. Ferrari needs a Churchill, they have a Chamberlain.

[Greig]

So your darling Horner knew how good our engine was before the season started? Ferrari also did not know how the engine stacked up to others, especially those who were able to keep developing it while Ferrari was shut down, which kind of ruins your whole hissy little rant.

[nani_s23]

Vettel retirement announcement is coming soon. He’s aiming for 2022 return with new team.
#VAMus.

[paolo lalli]

Good luck to seb and all his future endeavours.A 200 million dollar pay packet for his time and effort at Ferrari.I think he has done pretty dam well title or no title.

[WS6TransAm01]

So your darling Horner knew how good our engine was before the season started? Ferrari also did not know how the engine stacked up to others, especially those who were able to keep developing it while Ferrari was shut down, which kind of ruins your whole hissy little rant.

Are you purposefully obtuse, or just suffering from general lack of understanding?

Okay, let me break it down for you.

Ferrari possibly got caught cheating. Their car already slowed down last year. Hornet et al can see this on the GPS data. They can deduce that their engine lost performance. Idea comes up to freeze engines, okay say the smart ones; Ferrari is hurt, quick, kill the beast while he is wounded.

It doesn't take a genius to read these tea leaves.

Further, if Ferrari know the gig is up, oops, we're caught. Okay, lets de-tune the engine or remove whatever widget was making us faster. They know they are hurting, they know the new engine, at first wont be as powerful, why on Earth agree to the engine development freeze?

Even if I am wrong about Horner and Wolff (which you seem to ignore harping only on Horner) why in name of Zeus's butt-hole did Ferrari agree to it?

And again, if you know your engine sucks the big one, why shut down while everyone else keeps working? Because your pusillanimous TP is afraid of the sniffles?

[nani_s23]

Good luck to seb and all his future endeavours.A 200 million dollar pay packet for his time and effort at Ferrari.I think he has done pretty dam well title or no title.

[Greig]

Even if I am wrong about Horner and Wolff (which you seem to ignore harping only on Horner) why in name of Zeus's butt-hole did Ferrari agree to it?

And again, if you know your engine sucks the big one, why shut down while everyone else keeps working? Because your pusillanimous TP is afraid of the sniffles?

Ferrari did not know they were so far behind, are you just being stupid? Again with your stupid little covid dig, you don't get the sniffles with covid but you carry on being ignorant.