Renault protest Racing Point

[Greig]

They can try...but like I stated earlier in my post.....Lawrence Stroll and Toto Wolff are "buddies"outside of F1. The two are rarely seen together in the Paddock for 2020. In 2019, they were seen together quite extensively.

Well you are saying Racing Point managed to copy the Merc so others can easily do the same, not like Racing Point are a massive team with so much money and resources.

Maybe not seen in the paddock in 2020 due to Covid....just possibly.

[jgonzalesm6]

Well you are saying Racing Point managed to copy the Merc so others can easily do the same, not like Racing Point are a massive team with so much money and resources.

Maybe not seen in the paddock in 2020 due to Covid....just possibly.

Well, it seems a couple of teams have adopted the W10's narrower nose....except the cape that goes underneath the nose. Only Racing Point copied that.

But the Renault PU is no where near the Mercedes PU.

Cyril can protest all he wants against Racing Point. He's butthurt that a "garagista" is beating a full works team (Renault).

Surprised Ferrari and RedBull did'nt join in the protest.

Nothing will happen with this Renault protest.

[tifosi1993]

My sentiments exactly, if the FIA went to so much trouble when Merc and RB protested about our engine last year, it's only fair! All is not what it seems and we have an F2 car this year.

There's a lot of ground for this protest. And F1 teams aren't stupid, Renault knows pretty well what they are doing.

And if it is so easy to reverse-engineer, everyone would've done it by now. Every country in the world could just easily copy a F35 or SU57 based on just pictures, and taa daa, they would get their own 5th gen fighter jets. But we all know that's not true, copying a design is not going to replicate it's performance.

To me, it's a bunch of hogwash, that RP successfully reverse engineered last years Mercedes based on pictures. And they did such an astounding job, that the current RP car behaves and performs exactly like last years Mercedes.

If there has been a transfer of information between Mercedes and RP in 2019, and if they used that information to manufacture 2019 car parts, then it would've been legal. But using 2019 information to manufacture 2020 car parts, under current seasons's regulation is illegal.

And I'm sure brake ducts are not the only parts, there are other parts as well.

[SS454]

Some things to think about. First, if it was so easy for teams to copy another team's ENTIRE car, you would see all the teams doing it. Why wouldn't they? Teams copy other teams ideas all the time, it's nothing new. But to copy and entire car requires every bit of say 20,000 parts to be copied to make it work right.

I'd like to know how RP can claim they took photos of the W10 starting in late February 2019 where enough photos of ALL the details under the body work, floor, suspension, brakes, etc are needed. Pictures of the aero/body work is one thing, but you need to have the radiators, piping, fuel cell, engine + PU, gearbox, suspension, etc etc all designed, built, and packaged correctly to fit under the body work. So all these pics then get translated into incredibly accurate CAD drawings and then built to 1/3rd scale to be tested in the wind tunnel to confirm their own copy process is proving accurate and beneficial. Then building all these parts in full scale for 2 cars plus spare parts and having it ready by February 2020 with resources that are maybe 1/3rd of what Mercedes has. And having ZERO intellectual property, CAD drawings, or experience of the 2018 Mercedes W09 which the W10 evolved from. Yet the RP20 comes out of the garage in perfect order and on pace.

Furthermore, why hasn't Mercedes protested or requested for an investigation over espionage? Everyone in the F1 world recognized the RP20 as nearly an exact copy of the W10, shouldn't they be worried that some of their intellectual property has been stolen? I remember Ferrari getting into legal matters against Toyota over designs that were copied on the F2002.

[paolo lalli]

Astonding how a team RP with not much really are now all over red bull in virtually no time at all.They have passed Ferrari comfortably and have speed aplenty down the strait.I sense Toto wolf has played solid foundations for a smooth transition to Aston Martin with some solid mercedes DNA packed for the transission not to mention the brilliant staff that will form part of this newly branded package expect a fast bullet proof Aston Martin.Totto wolf is no charity he has nothing but success written all over him and the word winner should be his middle name.

[Cavallino]

When was the last time a rule chage (or rule clarification) benefited Ferrari.

The last i can think of is Renault's mass dampers in 2006.

[Cavallino]

Astonding how a team RP with not much really are now all over red bull in virtually no time at all.They have passed Ferrari comfortably and have speed aplenty down the strait.I sense Toto wolf has played solid foundations for a smooth transition to Aston Martin with some solid mercedes DNA packed for the transission not to mention the brilliant staff that will form part of this newly branded package expect a fast bullet proof Aston Martin.Totto wolf is no charity he has nothing but success written all over him and the word winner should be his middle name.

And now the Merc engine guy is rumoured to be going there too.

[killer]

Some things to think about. First, if it was so easy for teams to copy another team's ENTIRE car, you would see all the teams doing it. Why wouldn't they? Teams copy other teams ideas all the time, it's nothing new. But to copy and entire car requires every bit of say 20,000 parts to be copied to make it work right.

I'd like to know how RP can claim they took photos of the W10 starting in late February 2019 where enough photos of ALL the details under the body work, floor, suspension, brakes, etc are needed. Pictures of the aero/body work is one thing, but you need to have the radiators, piping, fuel cell, engine + PU, gearbox, suspension, etc etc all designed, built, and packaged correctly to fit under the body work. So all these pics then get translated into incredibly accurate CAD drawings and then built to 1/3rd scale to be tested in the wind tunnel to confirm their own copy process is proving accurate and beneficial. Then building all these parts in full scale for 2 cars plus spare parts and having it ready by February 2020 with resources that are maybe 1/3rd of what Mercedes has. And having ZERO intellectual property, CAD drawings, or experience of the 2018 Mercedes W09 which the W10 evolved from. Yet the RP20 comes out of the garage in perfect order and on pace.

Furthermore, why hasn't Mercedes protested or requested for an investigation over espionage? Everyone in the F1 world recognized the RP20 as nearly an exact copy of the W10, shouldn't they be worried that some of their intellectual property has been stolen? I remember Ferrari getting into legal matters against Toyota over designs that were copied on the F2002.

You may be going in a separate direction here but your questions dovetail into something more problematic. This initial protest could be opening the door to something bigger. That the FIA accepted the protest goes beyond mere acceptance--I take it to mean there was enough substance to merit an investigation.

[paolo lalli]

Maybe Ferrari should just scrap there bag of rubbish sf 1000 failure knock on racing points door and buy 2 cars tweak it a little with some smart innovation providing Ferrari are capable then pesto a top car that can challenge.To see ferrari drivers way down on the grid is so unjust to them they deserve better.The fans deserve better ferrari you have let a lot of people down.If you lack the ability to build an f1 car then buy one become a receiver and not a provider because under the current Ferrari umbrella it's just not working.

[Tony]

Maybe Ferrari should just scrap there bag of rubbish sf 1000 failure knock on racing points door and buy 2 cars tweak it a little with some smart innovation providing Ferrari are capable then pesto a top car that can challenge.To see ferrari drivers way down on the grid is so unjust to them they deserve better.The fans deserve better ferrari you have let a lot of people down.If you lack the ability to build an f1 car then buy one become a receiver and not a provider because under the current Ferrari umbrella it's just not working.

I think you mean presto and not pesto, pesto is a basil sauce :D

[paolo lalli]

Correct I did mean Presto.Now for dinner I will have gnocchi with pesto.Thanks for the inspiration Buon appititto.

[Brembo]

Correct I did mean Presto.Now for dinner I will have gnocchi with pesto.Thanks for the inspiration Buon appititto.

Great choice !!! Argentina Malbec Vino with that ! Keep things international.

[wisepie]

Great choice !!! Argentina Malbec Vino with that ! Keep things international.

I'd prefer penne puttanesca, covers a multitude of sins! And a nice bottle of Valpolicella to wash it down, drowning my sorrows in a season without much hope at the present time.

[Brembo]

I'd prefer penne puttanesca, covers a multitude of sins! And a nice bottle of Valpolicella to wash it down, drowning my sorrows in a season without much hope at the present time.

Great choice !!! Meanwhile as you say we are without much hope. " Oje Tedesco Seb, fa' priesto viene ! Nun mme fa' spanteca.

[wisepie]

Great choice !!! Meanwhile as you say we are without much hope. " Oje Tedesco Seb, fa' priesto viene ! Nun mme fa' spanteca.

Niente mi sorprende ormai! This is indeed a strange season, if you can call it that, the Prancing Horse has been tethered and castrated by the FIA and other teams, about time Ferrari got their horns out and complained about Merc's engine and Racing Point's pink Merc, if Seb ends up there it will be called an Aston Martin, does he think he's James Bond?

[458 Italia]

Niente mi sorprende ormai! This is indeed a strange season, if you can call it that, the Prancing Horse has been tethered and castrated by the FIA and other teams, about time Ferrari got their horns out and complained about Merc's engine and Racing Point's pink Merc, if Seb ends up there it will be called an Aston Martin, does he think he's James Bond?

Who else misses the "horse whisperer" from years back (did we ever find out who that was?) they were the shadowy individual inside Ferrari that released statements pulling no punches when anything controversial with the FIA was going on.

[Rishu]

Who else misses the "horse whisperer" from years back (did we ever find out who that was?) they were the shadowy individual inside Ferrari that released statements pulling no punches when anything controversial with the FIA was going on.

Montezemolo :)

[nani_s23]

Helmut Marko said that Racing Point (Aston Martin) could be a good team for a transition year (interim solution) for Seb. They might challenge for podiums and even for some wins. But he also said that we have to wait what the decision will be regarding the protest.

[patrese86]

Mercedes are equally as complicit here if RP are found guilty. You can't just copy a car, you need that co-operation from the team you are copying from.

[nani_s23]

RB will not protest now, because their position is safe 2nd fastest team/car.

If they found RP dominating their position. Then we will see likes of Horner/Marko/max using their mouth very much.

[killer]

RB will not protest now, because their position is safe 2nd fastest team/car.

If they found RP dominating their position. Then we will see likes of Horner/Marko/max using their mouth very much.

You may have to revisit this post after qualifying.

[nani_s23]

You may have to revisit this post after qualifying.

yes if RP start pushing at the same pace. Then RB will act.

[SilverSpeed]

Seems that FIA is gonna clamp down the movement of some teams like RB rear wing.
The it passes the test, but at high speed flexes enough to lower drag.

[SS454]

Mercedes are equally as complicit here if RP are found guilty. You can't just copy a car, you need that co-operation from the team you are copying from.

Even if Racing Point are guilty, they will be deemed legal by the FIA. There is no way the FIA will want to penalize Mercedes, which will be controversial, and furthermore stop Lewis from winning his 7th championship.

[Cavallino]

The only way this is worth while is if somehow Mercedes were complicit and the two engineering teams basically worked as one. Then we actually might be able to take down this mercedes political juggernaut.

[killer]

The worst thing for me here is that as bad a state as it’s in currently, I can’t stop tuning in because Ferrari is there. At least I get the F3 and F2 races now. MotoGP is also back. Sugar water for swallowing what F1 has become.

[paolo lalli]

Totto wolf has invested in racing point soon to be Aston Martin racing with Mr stroll do you think that they are willing to start from ground zero.Wake up this is never going to happen.The two amigos are not that stupid.They have manovered mercedes intellectual property so the racing point car is a challenger and will then foward it to the Aston Martin project.Are they clever?or are the FIA going to intervene? We shall see but do not think for one minute that a whole lot of cutting and pasting is not going on between RP and mercedes, and throw in playgerism to boot.

[patrese86]

Totto wolf has invested in racing point soon to be Aston Martin racing with Mr stroll do you think that they are willing to start from ground zero.Wake up this is never going to happen.The two amigos are not that stupid.They have manovered mercedes intellectual property so the racing point car is a challenger and will then foward it to the Aston Martin project.Are they clever?or are the FIA going to intervene? We shall see but do not think for one minute that a whole lot of cutting and pasting is not going on between RP and mercedes, and throw in playgerism to boot.

Exactly. It's so obvious with what is happening, Toto's investment was strange enough but now we get a merc 2019 clone. Like you say, protecting his investment. If you get RP to second best on the grid you stop others challenging Mercedes also. What infuriates me is that not a big enough deal is being made of it from rival manufacturers. Toto actually got on the phone to RP the other year and told them to move Ocon out the way in Monaco to let Hamilton past, despite the fact they were racing for position. We get years of ridicule for team orders but other people are giving other teams orders and nothing gets said!

[paolo lalli]

Racing point mercedes blockers say hello to the new butlers .They wear pink by the way.