Russian GP 2020 : Race

[Stormsearcher]

There’s restriction only on the engine side, which has token system. Other developments around the car (aero/chassis) can be continued.

Token system for developing the engine right? But a completely new engine can be built?

[Greig]

To be fair, back between 2000-2005, it did seem like MS and Ferrari were favoured by the FIA. I was not a MS fan and hence it appeared everything was going for MS, all the rules, the steward decisions etc., so i guess it depends on which side of the fence you are on.

Yeah changing points systems, banning testing, changing qualifying, tyres to last all race etc etc were all to help Michael....

[nani_s23]

Token system for developing the engine right? But a completely new engine can be built?

Whether it’s old engine or new engine. We are restricted with tokens.
So ferrari opted to go with new engine for next season on top of it, they will upgrade its specifications
/components using 2 tokens which they have.

If ferrari would have taken new engine this season itself, then they are left with nothing In next season to upgrade its components.

[ntukza]

Whether it’s old engine or new engine. We are restricted with tokens.
So ferrari opted to go with new engine for next season on top of it, they will upgrade its specifications
/components using 2 tokens which they have.

If ferrari would have taken new engine this season itself, then they are left with nothing In next season to upgrade its components.

I'm not following. So is it good or bad that Ferrari are going with the new engine next year and not this year?

[nani_s23]

I'm not following. So is it good or bad that Ferrari are going with the new engine next year and not this year?

It should be good. One disadvantage is, reliability problems can come up. That’s what happened in 2017.

[ntukza]

It should be good. One disadvantage is, reliability problems can come up. That’s what happened in 2017.

Okay I see. Sounds good. Thanks.

[Stormsearcher]

It should be good. One disadvantage is, reliability problems can come up. That’s what happened in 2017.

Reliability can be addressed without tokens if am not mistaken.

[Stormsearcher]

Whether it’s old engine or new engine. We are restricted with tokens.
So ferrari opted to go with new engine for next season on top of it, they will upgrade its specifications
/components using 2 tokens which they have.

If ferrari would have taken new engine this season itself, then they are left with nothing In next season to upgrade its components.

ok got it. So every other team can bring in a new engine then. Wonder what merc is gonna do.

[jgonzalesm6]

"Crash-tor" Maldonado wants answers from the FIA......

https://twitter.com/Insidef1/status/...508033/photo/1

[stefa]

"Crash-tor" Maldonado wants answers from the FIA......

https://twitter.com/Insidef1/status/...508033/photo/1

Coming from him it is not serious at all!!!!

[nani_s23]

Reliability can be addressed without tokens if am not mistaken.

It depends, which component of the engine issue is. MGU-K/ICE/TC etc..

[nani_s23]

Alonso: “When you sign for Ferrari, you expect to win the title. Vettel will have thought after four titles that he could win another one with Ferrari. But sometimes you are not lucky at the right moment, and so opportunities pass by. Ferrari is the most legendary team in F1 and it is special to drive for them. Even though I didn't win the title, it was a very positive experience for me. I think Sebastian will also have good memories of Ferrari, even if he didn't win the title with them. I think we [Seb and myself] both lacked the right car and the technical capabilities at the right moment."

[ntukza]

Okay, I've been reading up on the token system and this is now my informed understanding:

1. The token system applies to specific parts which are listed in the regulations, such as the chassis and gearbox. Upgrading these specific parts requires tokens. The engine is not one of them.

2. There are parts that are not specified as needing tokens which the teams are free to develop at will, mostly body aero parts.

3. Engine development is governed by a different rule altogether. Namely, teams are allowed only one engine specification each year from 2020 to 2023 and cannot upgrade it during the season (not even with tokens).

Now, all this brings me to this thought. When we were busted for our engine last year, what engine did we revert to? How bad was that engine compared to this one? Could we not start 2020 with last year's specification (end of 2019) and then introduce this year's specification deep into the season after we've developed and tested a proper engine?

[stefa]

Alonso: “When you sign for Ferrari, you expect to win the title. Vettel will have thought after four titles that he could win another one with Ferrari. But sometimes you are not lucky at the right moment, and so opportunities pass by. Ferrari is the most legendary team in F1 and it is special to drive for them. Even though I didn't win the title, it was a very positive experience for me. I think Sebastian will also have good memories of Ferrari, even if he didn't win the title with them. I think we [Seb and myself] both lacked the right car and the technical capabilities at the right moment."

[nani_s23]

[tifosi1993]

Okay, I've been reading up on the token system and this is now my informed understanding:

1. The token system applies to specific parts which are listed in the regulations, such as the chassis and gearbox. Upgrading these specific parts requires tokens. The engine is not one of them.

2. There are parts that are not specified as needing tokens which the teams are free to develop at will, mostly body aero parts.

3. Engine development is governed by a different rule altogether. Namely, teams are allowed only one engine specification each year from 2020 to 2023 and cannot upgrade it during the season (not even with tokens).

Now, all this brings me to this thought. When we were busted for our engine last year, what engine did we revert to? How bad was that engine compared to this one? Could we not start 2020 with last year's specification (end of 2019) and then introduce this year's specification deep into the season after we've developed and tested a proper engine?

We revert back to a entirely new engine construction. The current 2020 engine is entirely different from 2019 engine. And as for why we couldn't start 2020 with last years engine, well first of all, we don't know almost anything about the Ferrari-FIA agreement. Maybe the part of the agreement prohibited Ferrari from using 2019 spec 3 this year, probably there would've been direct protest against Ferrari and Ferrari powered cars. It's just pure speculation and we will probably never know the whole answer.
And as for the token system here are few points:

1. From the first round of (Austria) 2019 season, few components are frozen, most notably chassis and gearbox.

2. From October 15th, more component "freeze" will take place, most notable components will be some aero parts (un-specified).

3. Another component freeze will take place from round 1 2021 and onwards. Some of the most notable parts are: Steering parts, cooling parts, suspension, gear-ratios and driveshaft.

But much of the car remains free. So Ferrari can bring new updates to the car both this year and next year. The wind tunnel testing of 2022 cars are banned until February 2021.

We don't know how many tokens will each team have. There is also a special clause for customer teams, and this is where the main problem lies. Since Racing point or Tracing point, whatever you call them, are using 2019 parts, when they upgrade to 2020 component for 2021, (another copy paste job of current 2021 Mercedes), they are not required to spend any token.

As for the engine, mid-season upgrades are not allowed, so no more spec-2 or 3 and no upgraded version of our current engine, but engine manufacturers are allowed to bring new versions of current homologated specification each year. So actually, Ferrari can bring a new upgraded engine for next year without spending any tokens. But the MGU-K,H, electrical and control electronics will be subject to tighter restrictions. So teams are allowed to bring new versions of these components this year and before 2021, and also in two years period covering 2022-2023.

So overall, Ferrari are allowed to a new engine next year without any tokens, and there also allowed to fix current cars aero problems. The tokens will be used for already "frozen" and next on the line "frozen" parts, and teams are allowed to bring new engines yearly basis until 2023.

[tifosi1993]

And as for Alonso, well:

https://www.racefans.net/2018/04/02/...ound-up-02-04/

Hopefully, it’s what we want. But I think this is the same thing every year. Last year, arguably, Ferrari was better in many of the races, [had] more performance on their car, so it was a very close fight in a way until Singapore when the two Ferraris crashed [into] each other. They were leading the championship, they were in front.


If we have some kind of tight fight this year it’s good for the fans but I think it was last year as well and people didn’t enjoy at the end. They want to have the last race the decisive race and that’s very difficult in F1.

Edit: And few more:
https://www.wheels24.co.za/FormulaOn...press-20180904
https://www.espn.in/f1/story/_/id/24...8-looks-errors
https://www.goodwood.com/grr/race/mo...e-cost-vettel/
https://www.givemesport.com/1391145-...culated-points
https://wtf1.com/post/how-many-point...way-this-year/

[ntukza]

We revert back to a entirely new engine construction. The current 2020 engine is entirely different from 2019 engine. And as for why we couldn't start 2020 with last years engine, well first of all, we don't know almost anything about the Ferrari-FIA agreement. Maybe the part of the agreement prohibited Ferrari from using 2019 spec 3 this year, probably there would've been direct protest against Ferrari and Ferrari powered cars. It's just pure speculation and we will probably never know the whole answer.
And as for the token system here are few points:

1. From the first round of (Austria) 2019 season, few components are frozen, most notably chassis and gearbox.

2. From October 15th, more component "freeze" will take place, most notable components will be some aero parts (un-specified).

3. Another component freeze will take place from round 1 2021 and onwards. Some of the most notable parts are: Steering parts, cooling parts, suspension, gear-ratios and driveshaft.

But much of the car remains free. So Ferrari can bring new updates to the car both this year and next year. The wind tunnel testing of 2022 cars are banned until February 2021.

We don't know how many tokens will each team have. There is also a special clause for customer teams, and this is where the main problem lies. Since Racing point or Tracing point, whatever you call them, are using 2019 parts, when they upgrade to 2020 component for 2021, (another copy paste job of current 2021 Mercedes), they are not required to spend any token.

As for the engine, mid-season upgrades are not allowed, so no more spec-2 or 3 and no upgraded version of our current engine, but engine manufacturers are allowed to bring new versions of current homologated specification each year. So actually, Ferrari can bring a new upgraded engine for next year without spending any tokens. But the MGU-K,H, electrical and control electronics will be subject to tighter restrictions. So teams are allowed to bring new versions of these components this year and before 2021, and also in two years period covering 2022-2023.

So overall, Ferrari are allowed to a new engine next year without any tokens, and there also allowed to fix current cars aero problems. The tokens will be used for already "frozen" and next on the line "frozen" parts, and teams are allowed to bring new engines yearly basis until 2023.

Sounds very positive after all.

[nani_s23]

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/69428...ight-car-.html

Alonso