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Thread: New Engine Program

  1. #1
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    New Engine Program

    I think after 2023 they should go to an engine platform that the teams with engine facilities should be in charge of supplying one or two components to it.
    Engine long block & electronics -Ferrari
    Cylinder heads & turbo- Mercedes
    Honda- Cooling
    Renault- air induction systems
    You get what i mean all teams will be in-charge of departments then it will be up to who builds the best chassis and then we truly will see who the best drivers are and manufactures are because truly no one will ever catch up to another team if they get a 1.5 second gap to the next team which Mercedes have enjoyed for the last 4 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sxviper698 View Post
    I think after 2023 they should go to an engine platform that the teams with engine facilities should be in charge of supplying one or two components to it.
    Engine long block & electronics -Ferrari
    Cylinder heads & turbo- Mercedes
    Honda- Cooling
    Renault- air induction systems
    You get what i mean all teams will be in-charge of departments then it will be up to who builds the best chassis and then we truly will see who the best drivers are and manufactures are because truly no one will ever catch up to another team if they get a 1.5 second gap to the next team which Mercedes have enjoyed for the last 4 years.
    7 years and will be 8 next season.
    "Formula 1 is not a sport anymore” - Fernando Alonso

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    More HP !! Enzo was right!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    More HP !! Enzo was right!!
    Well.........yes.......but you also need the right aero (track specific), suspension geo set-up and tire strat.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    I believe HP gets the car, driver the best spot in quali. As Lewis has proved; the driver is the main make it or break it decision each race tire wise . More than once his tire call , not the pit wall got the win. Even that 3 tire finish !! I truly don't believe Pirelli has Ferrari's best interests at stake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I believe HP gets the car, driver the best spot in quali. As Lewis has proved; the driver is the main make it or break it decision each race tire wise . More than once his tire call , not the pit wall got the win. Even that 3 tire finish !! I truly don't believe Pirelli has Ferrari's best interests at stake.
    And why would they?? Just because Pirelli is an Italian team.....pffffff....money talks and BS walks....Merc is stuffing Pirellis pockets with boatload of moolah and Pirelli is bowing down and building a tire per their liking....easy as that

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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    And why would they?? Just because Pirelli is an Italian team.....pffffff....money talks and BS walks....Merc is stuffing Pirellis pockets with boatload of moolah and Pirelli is bowing down and building a tire per their liking....easy as that
    Pirelli is based in Italy..but is owned by the Chinese.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FerrariF60 View Post
    And why would they?? Just because Pirelli is an Italian team.....pffffff....money talks and BS walks....Merc is stuffing Pirellis pockets with boatload of moolah and Pirelli is bowing down and building a tire per their liking....easy as that
    Great post! Even in China " Money talks!!! " And Merc for sure has plenty of $$ to go around!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brembo View Post
    I believe HP gets the car, driver the best spot in quali. As Lewis has proved; the driver is the main make it or break it decision each race tire wise . More than once his tire call , not the pit wall got the win. Even that 3 tire finish !! I truly don't believe Pirelli has Ferrari's best interests at stake.
    It's true. It's all about the HP. If you have an engine that is so far above your competition power wise, and then don't allow them to develop their engines for a couple of years...... you can spend all your time developing your chassis and fine tuning it.

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    Todt has the most HP in F-1 for sure.

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    If I understood it correctly, Ferrari wants a engine performance parity, and then freezing it for the remaining years of current engine formula.

    I'm torn on this. Technical development has always been an important part of F1, and engine is the heart of a race car. Without it, it will be a race of aero design only. Which also didn't go to well for Ferrari the last time we were up against Red Bull
    But I have to admin Merc dominance in the engine really making it hell for those who are on a different engine.

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    Technical development has always been important, of course, but as this year has proved, it's hopeless for a team to be competitive if their engine is frozen in the way that the Ferrari ICE has been this year, affecting three teams, and nothing can be done about it. Aero is the next most important factor and is being restricted in the future, all of this being due to the cost-cutting and budget restraints. What we will end up with is hopefully a more level playing field for the whole grid and this is where the driver comes into it. Engine freezes per se are probably not seen as appropriate for the pinnacle of motorsport (F1), but if we are to save F1 for the future, it could be the correct and only solution. I'm not in favour of engine freezes when one power unit supplier has been forced to be at a disadvantage all season long, and whatever happened between Ferrari and the FIA after last season, Binotto must have known what it was going to mean and therefore said after testing back in February that we shouldn't expect any quick fix until 2022.
    Last edited by wisepie; 2nd December 2020 at 12:06.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sxviper698 View Post
    I think after 2023 they should go to an engine platform that the teams with engine facilities should be in charge of supplying one or two components to it.
    Engine long block & electronics -Ferrari
    Cylinder heads & turbo- Mercedes
    Honda- Cooling
    Renault- air induction systems
    You get what i mean all teams will be in-charge of departments then it will be up to who builds the best chassis and then we truly will see who the best drivers are and manufactures are because truly no one will ever catch up to another team if they get a 1.5 second gap to the next team which Mercedes have enjoyed for the last 4 years.
    Honda?
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by wisepie View Post
    Technical development has always been important, of course, but as this year has proved, it's hopeless for a team to be competitive if their engine is frozen in the way that the Ferrari ICE has been this year, affecting three teams, and nothing can be done about it. Aero is the next most important factor and is being restricted in the future, all of this being due to the cost-cutting and budget restraints. What we will end up with is hopefully a more level playing field for the whole grid and this is where the driver comes into it. Engine freezes per se are probably not seen as appropriate for the pinnacle of motorsport (F1), but if we are to save F1 for the future, it could be the correct and only solution. I'm not in favour of engine freezes when one power unit supplier has been forced to be at a disadvantage all season long, and whatever happened between Ferrari and the FIA after last season, Binotto must have known what it was going to mean and therefore said after testing back in February that we shouldn't expect any quick fix until 2022.
    That.
    Also very important is how the whole package utilizes the tyres *cough* DAS *cough*
    as it has been displayed this year.

    In short, F1 is becoming a joke if teams cannot evolve thru the year in order to catch up with the teams that have gotten it right before the start of the season.

    If this is the case, there is no reason to have a championship after , say, 3 races; you might just give it to the top car and driver of the team and go home.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

  15. #15
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    Good point, and I forgot to mention the tyres, which have been more important than ever in recent years, especially when Merc were allowed to run the DAS system helping them to yet another championship victory. Makes my blood boil!

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    What would be the reason to have different engine manufacturers if the engines are.all making the same power. If this is what F1 is going towards then why not have 1 engine and let the teams add the engine maps.and software. They'll become software developers not engine builders.
    This isn't F1. Let them develop their engines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Pirelli is based in Italy..but is owned by the Chinese.
    Funny that as Merc is mainly owned by the Chinese.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    What would be the reason to have different engine manufacturers if the engines are.all making the same power. If this is what F1 is going towards then why not have 1 engine and let the teams add the engine maps.and software. They'll become software developers not engine builders.
    This isn't F1. Let them develop their engines.
    This will not be the first time that F1 allows for engine manufacturers to catch up.
    It has happened before and I am pretty sure it will again.
    And were this to happen it's going to be only till new rules are set in place.

    Also , we're talking bout the case a freeze is to be put in place; If there is to be a freeze to be put in place and a catch up is not allowed first, Mercedes will be bluntly favored (*gasp*)
    So, it's either that, or no freeze.

    I have no problem with no catching up, as long as no freeze is implemented as far as I am concerned.
    "If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari" - Gilles Villeneuve

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    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    Funny that as Merc is mainly owned by the Chinese.
    Daimier AC is Mercedes . Are they also Chinese? Everyone who runs and works @ Pirrelli in Modena eats pasta and drinks red wine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 330 p4 View Post
    Funny that as Merc is mainly owned by the Chinese.
    There couple of chinese companies with shares in metc which equates to about 15% of the company.

    So 15% is hardly mainly owned.
    CAVALLINO RAMPANTE PER SEMPRE

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    Why don't the Chinese make a formula 1 car.Oh that's right they simply can't but as sure as night becomes day they can copy one.Just about goes for all things Chinese the captains of the copying industry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paolo lalli View Post
    Why don't the Chinese make a formula 1 car.Oh that's right they simply can't but as sure as night becomes day they can copy one.Just about goes for all things Chinese the captains of the copying industry.
    Exactly so! I spent a number of years attending trade shows at home, in Europe and in the Middle East across a range of industries - construction equipment, oil & gas and materials handling - and the halls were always full of Chinese guys collecting every brochure and spec sheet they could lay their hands on.

    Every overhead locker on the 'planes out was crammed with the material they'd collected.

    Straight back home to build copies. At least 50% cheaper and usually at least 50% less solid or reliable but you can always fool people - at least once!

    Only way they'd build an F1 car is if they stole the entire team, its personnel, IP, equipment and tech..
    Angry. Always.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Singer View Post
    Exactly so! I spent a number of years attending trade shows at home, in Europe and in the Middle East across a range of industries - construction equipment, oil & gas and materials handling - and the halls were always full of Chinese guys collecting every brochure and spec sheet they could lay their hands on.

    Every overhead locker on the 'planes out was crammed with the material they'd collected.

    Straight back home to build copies. At least 50% cheaper and usually at least 50% less solid or reliable but you can always fool people - at least once!

    Only way they'd build an F1 car is if they stole the entire team, its personnel, IP, equipment and tech..
    A Chinese co. could have bought Williams. No need to steal it. And they would have all the components needed to say or not say they have a team.

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    There are reports that Honda may bring up to 40 HP and Renault bringing completely new engine that may be big step. Let's hope Ferrari have something special with the Superfast unit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    There are reports that Honda may bring up to 40 HP and Renault bringing completely new engine that may be big step. Let's hope Ferrari have something special with the Superfast unit.
    sadly this is what Motorsport Italy states....that is if it's TRUE....

    Motorsport Italy say the aim for the next PU is +30hp. Also say the rear suspension/gearbox casing is the focus, to do with the packaging of the exhaust as well

    Also apparently the FIA have imposed a limit on the number of exhaust pipes (I'm not sure if that's the word) there's a limit on the number now whereas before it was unlimited

    They say that's where the current reliability concerns with the new PU come from, the exhaust


    but if Honda will bring another 40Hp on top of a really good power unit they had last year where they kept the Mercs quite honest.....i don't knwo what to say about out measily 30HP if it is true....

    we'll be the last of the engine manufacturers again....hopefully Ferrari will prove this all wrong.....but we've ALL been let down by Ferrari before time and time again......sooooooo

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    With all the numbers and rumours being thrown around who knows what's going to happen
    I'm hoping Ferrari is looking to increase HP not based on what this engine is making but based on the 2019 engine. They know this one is a dud and was compromised from the get go due to the late TD's and covid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Bob View Post
    With all the numbers and rumours being thrown around who knows what's going to happen
    I'm hoping Ferrari is looking to increase HP not based on what this engine is making but based on the 2019 engine. They know this one is a dud and was compromised from the get go due to the late TD's and covid.
    if the rumors on honda and renault are true we need a jump of 80-100 HP to be contenders.

    which is not happening

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    Quote Originally Posted by subfire91 View Post
    if the rumors on honda and renault are true we need a jump of 80-100 HP to be contenders.

    which is not happening
    That’s what I’m trying to say....we’re back to where we were last year, 4th best engine manufacturer....which would be pretty sad for ferrari...

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    It wasn't long ago that down force was the main word over and over here, the lack of it or too much. Before that over and over which color of the Pirelli rainbow was the right one each race. Finally!!! Enzo's words come to haunt Ferrari H P !!! I for one agreed with that from day one. Another 60 ponies will heel all other car wounds. Charles and Carlos sounf great. The pit crew can make or break a lead . You can't use the H P if your stuck an extra 3 seconds on a jack in the pit stop. If Ferrari wants to copy someone, copy R Bull's pit crew!
    Last edited by Brembo; 1st January 2021 at 15:43.

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    Bring on 2022!!!!
    Hero's come and go, but legends never die!

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