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Thread: 2021 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 07 - 09

  1. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Verstappen pitted on lap 24, Hamilton on lap 29. Verstappen's first lap on new mediums was 1:21.632, Hamilton's 1:21.276. Hamilton caught up to Max on lap 33, the gap was 1.036 seconds. When Hamilton pitted on lap 42 again, the gap was 0.916 seconds.

    So it was pretty much a stalemate between Hamilton and Verstappen, before Hamilton pitted on lap 42. Max couldn't shake off Lewis and Lewis couldn't get Max even with the DRS for 9 laps. And the more Hamilton would've stayed on the dirty air, the more he would've destroyed his tyres.

    So when Lewis pitted and re-joined the track, his tyres were 18 laps younger than Verstappen's. With new tyres Hamilton was doing low 1:20's, Max with old tyres was still doing high 1:21's to mid 1:22's, sometimes 1:23's.

    When Hamilton caught up on lap 57, Max had already done 33 laps on those mediums, compared to Hamilton's only 15 laps older tyres.

    If you still can't comprehend the advantage of having fresh rubbers, both Ricciardo and Carlos were pitted on lap 46 for softs. And on lap 48, Carlos did 1:22.095 compared to Max's 1:23.039, 0.944 seconds faster.

    Had Red Bull mirrored Mercedes and pitted him on the same lap as Hamilton, Max would've won. The advantage of having fresh tyres over worn out old tyres was substantial.
    Your forgetting Max ONLY had 1 set of mediums going into the race. Merecedes had 2 sets of mediums.

    Max used his mediums in the race WHCH IS WHY Max went to hards.....that was his only option.

    It was game over for Max.

    Also, Lewis was cutting the margin to Max by doing 1.5sex margin to Max per lap.

    I suggest you read the following article:

    Mark Hughes: The many reasons Red Bull lost the Spanish GP

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-...he-spanish-gp/
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  2. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Your forgetting Max ONLY had 1 set of mediums going into the race. Merecedes had 2 sets of mediums.

    Max used his mediums in the race WHCH IS WHY Max went to hards.....that was his only option.

    It was game over for Max.

    Also, Lewis was cutting the margin to Max by doing 1.5sex margin to Max per lap.

    I suggest you read the following article:

    Mark Hughes: The many reasons Red Bull lost the Spanish GP

    https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-...he-spanish-gp/
    Persistent one, aren't you?





    So two stops was the fastest strategy, as it was in 2020. And Max had one set of brand new soft tyres. According to Pirelli, Mediums are good enough for 28-30 laps max. But Red Bull attempted to do 44 laps on them, an uphill task.

    If Red Bull committed to faster 2 stops over 1 stop, they would've won. Only after getting overtaken by Hamilton, Red Bull pitted Max for the 2nd stop.

    It was a strategic blunder, there's no two-ways about it.

  3. #393
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    If we had lost the race like that yesterday I can bet the guys sticking up for Red Bull would be tearing Ferrari's pitwall apart for being stupid
    Forza Ferrari

  4. #394
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    Well iam going to turn the tables iam going to call the redbull pitfall stupid not only once but twice this race stupid mistake with strategy last race more stupidity cost max.stupid score redbull 2 ferrari 0 amen to stupidity and the redbull pitfall keep up the good boys.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    If we had lost the race like that yesterday I can bet the guys sticking up for Red Bull would be tearing Ferrari's pitwall apart for being stupid
    Exactly. Now Red Bull under the pressure of WDC fight with the Mercedes, they are making strategic blunders. Making excuses for their bad strategic calls while always bashing Ferrari's strategy is downright trolling.

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post

    So two stops was the fastest strategy, as it was in 2020. And Max had one set of brand new soft tyres. According to Pirelli, Mediums are good enough for 28-30 laps max. But Red Bull attempted to do 44 laps on them, an uphill task.

    If Red Bull committed to faster 2 stops over 1 stop, they would've won. Only after getting overtaken by Hamilton, Red Bull pitted Max for the 2nd stop.

    It was a strategic blunder, there's no two-ways about it.
    Okay, you cover Lewis pitstops. Max pits pits a lap later, Lewis pits on lap 28 so Max pits on lap 29....both put mediums. Lewis pits on lap 42 and PUTS ANOTHER SET OF MEDIUMS......what does Max put on??? Hards or softs??
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    If we had lost the race like that yesterday I can bet the guys sticking up for Red Bull would be tearing Ferrari's pitwall apart for being stupid
    There were a number of factors for Max losing this race:

    1 Max needed a faster car.
    2. Max needed Perez
    3. Max needed another set of mediums.

    Mercedes plays Chess while RedBull played checkers at this race.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    There were a number of factors for Max losing this race:

    1 Max needed a faster car.
    2. Max needed Perez
    3. Max needed another set of mediums.

    Mercedes plays Chess while RedBull played checkers at this race.
    3. Is there own doing and they could have pitted before Lewis did and then Merc had no chance to undercut.
    Forza Ferrari

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Okay, you cover Lewis pitstops. Max pits pits a lap later, Lewis pits on lap 28 so Max pits on lap 29....both put mediums. Lewis pits on lap 42 and PUTS ANOTHER SET OF MEDIUMS......what does Max put on??? Hards or softs??
    His available brand new set of softs. Both Charles and Hamilton did 29 laps on softs with more fuel, Max can do 24 laps on softs with less fuel. His first stint was 25 laps on softs, after all.

    Max's own engineer said "it's going to be a repeat of Hungary 2019". Since they already knew the outcome but sill didn't respond, it was a text book strategic error.

    Red Bull had the track position over Hamilton, Bottas was out of the picture. Simply following Pirelli's 2 stopper would've been enough to win the race.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    3. Is there own doing and they could have pitted before Lewis did and then Merc had no chance to undercut.
    Max pitted on lap 24 and went from softs to mediums. Lewis pitted on lap 28 and went from softs to medium. Are you talking about the 2nd pitstop and if so WHAT TIRE WOULD YOU HAVE PUT MAX ON??? Hard or soft tire??? because that's the only choice tires you have.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    His available brand new set of softs. Both Charles and Hamilton did 29 laps on softs with more fuel, Max can do 24 laps on softs with less fuel. His first stint was 25 laps on softs, after all.

    Max's own engineer said "it's going to be a repeat of Hungary 2019". Since they already knew the outcome but sill didn't respond, it was a text book strategic error.

    Red Bull had the track position over Hamilton, Bottas was out of the picture. Simply following Pirelli's 2 stopper would've been enough to win the race.
    Do you honestly think Max would have lasted 24 laps on new softs against Lewis's Mercedes on new mediums given Mercedes race pace??
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Do you honestly think Max would have lasted 24 laps on new softs against Lewis's Mercedes on new mediums given Mercedes race pace??
    Do you honestly think Ham would've been lapping 1.2-1.5 seconds faster/lap with his new mediums over Max on new softs?

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Do you honestly think Ham would've been lapping 1.2-1.5 seconds faster/lap with his new mediums over Max on new softs?
    yep, at this point in the race, it's all about tire management. Max would have pushed hard on the soft tires to keep up and would have exhausted the softs in less than 24 laps.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  14. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    3. Is there own doing and they could have pitted before Lewis did and then Merc had no chance to undercut.
    Not really, their options were nil. if they brought Max in, Bottas just would have stayed out

  15. #405
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    Come on guys, this room belong things to Ferrari. I think Admin should ban any accounts which debate information not about Ferrari. Besides, it would be good if we have a
    Gossip topic for accounts to discuss anything not belong to Ferrari there, outsite this topic should be banned.

  16. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhiepka View Post
    Come on guys, this room belong things to Ferrari. I think Admin should ban any accounts which debate information not about Ferrari. Besides, it would be good if we have a
    Gossip topic for accounts to discuss anything not belong to Ferrari there, outsite this topic should be banned.
    The thread is called 2021 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 07 - 09 So whats the issue with discussing a key part of the race regardless of the driver or team? I personally don't see an issue with it, i just see someone making an issue out of nothing to be honest

  17. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicRac View Post
    Not really, their options were nil. if they brought Max in, Bottas just would have stayed out
    And what is Bottas going to do lol
    Forza Ferrari

  18. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhiepka View Post
    Come on guys, this room belong things to Ferrari. I think Admin should ban any accounts which debate information not about Ferrari. Besides, it would be good if we have a
    Gossip topic for accounts to discuss anything not belong to Ferrari there, outsite this topic should be banned.
    .................

    Quote Originally Posted by RicRac View Post
    The thread is called 2021 Spanish Grand Prix - Catalunya, May 07 - 09 So whats the issue with discussing a key part of the race regardless of the driver or team?
    +1000
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  19. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Max pitted on lap 24 and went from softs to mediums. Lewis pitted on lap 28 and went from softs to medium. Are you talking about the 2nd pitstop and if so WHAT TIRE WOULD YOU HAVE PUT MAX ON??? Hard or soft tire??? because that's the only choice tires you have.
    You really don't read much before you post do you? It was their own fault they did not keep 2 new sets of mediums for the race, they were free to do so just like Merc did.
    Forza Ferrari

  20. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    You really don't read much before you post do you? It was their own fault they did not keep 2 new sets of mediums for the race, they were free to do so just like Merc did.
    Well that is obvious. Please look at post #397 before making accusations about "You really don't read much before you post do you?"
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  21. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    yep, at this point in the race, it's all about tire management. Max would have pushed hard on the soft tires to keep up and would have exhausted the softs in less than 24 laps.
    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    One stop was the slowest race strategy, period. Had Max mirrored Ham and pitted on the same lap as Ham he would've won. Verstappen did 25 laps on used softs with heavy fuel loads, he would've easily done 24 laps on new softs with less fuel load and more rubbered track.

  22. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    And what is Bottas going to do lol
    Hold up Max so enough to ruin his soft tyres? Lewis could have just stayed out and nursed the tyres + Merc were undoubtedly the quicker car which would have been in their favour to run this strategy. It was a lose-lose situation the way i see it

  23. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    One stop was the slowest race strategy, period. Had Max mirrored Ham and pitted on the same lap as Ham he would've won. Verstappen did 25 laps on used softs with heavy fuel loads, he would've easily done 24 laps on new softs with less fuel load and more rubbered track.
    Obtuse....really?

    Tire management and Mercedes was the faster car....period. The beginning of the race teams were managing their soft tires. Towards the end of the race, Mercedes was lapping faster than at the beginning of the race.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  24. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6 View Post
    Obtuse....really?

    Tire management and Mercedes was the faster car....period. The beginning of the race teams were managing their soft tires. Towards the end of the race, Mercedes was lapping faster than at the beginning of the race.
    Hamilton and Mercedes gone for 2 stopper and won the race period, as instructed by the tyre manufacturer. Alpine committed one stopper got swalloed by the two stoppers toward the end.

    "Mercedes was lapping faster than at the beginning of the race", because tanks are almost empty and cars are much lighter. It's not rocket science.

    Max's best lap was 1:18.1 on new softs, that's only 1.4 seconds slower than pole time. Again outlining the pace advantage of new tyres over old tyres.

    You can be as persistent as much you want, but it doesn't matter. Bottas needed to pit first to clear Charles. Same thing for Hamilton, he needed 18 laps fresh tyres to overtake Max. Two stops was the fastest strategy, as it was in both 2020 and 2019.

  25. #415
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    Ross Brawns analysis:

    Verstappen and Red Bull doing everything they can

    I’m not sure Red Bull could have done anything other than what they did in terms of strategy in Spain. Had they boxed the lap after Lewis’s second stop, they would have conceded track position. Whether or not that would have meant a closer contest to the end of the Grand Prix is simply speculation.

    Max did everything right at the start to impressively take the lead. He’s not afraid to take the fight to Lewis. The reality is he knows he unlikely to beat Lewis if he’s second at the end of the first lap so. And that gives him the commitment to go for a pass when it’s 50-50.

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...nLMIGwDyB.html
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  26. #416
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    Anyone's chance to win till the end between R Bull & Merc. 98 wins and 100 poles! Charles just missed a podium. And another finished race for Mick. A great race to keep the 2021 season exciting.

  27. #417
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    I mean....Red Bull's strategists must have known that Mercedes saved 2 mediums for the race and going for 2 stops. Mercedes is their true competitor, it's their job to keep an eye on their closest competitor.

    Red Bull themselves also saved one set of softs for Max. I just can't realistically believe that Red Bull thought they could make a one stop work in Spain. "Could be Hungary all over again"...yet they didn't try anything to counter Mercedes.

    It was a strategic blunder and not going to be the only one. We shall see how Red Bull plays their strategy this year. With the championship pressure lingering over their head, they are going to make mistakes. Max has already made couple of costly mistakes and now his team is doing the same.

  28. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greig View Post
    If we had lost the race like that yesterday I can bet the guys sticking up for Red Bull would be tearing Ferrari's pitwall apart for being stupid
    Totally agree with this. When it's someone else who messes up, it's just another opportunity for them or some reason that they tried the best they could but when we make a mistake it's because we're clowns. Can't wait to see RB mess up even more.

  29. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by tifosi1993 View Post
    I mean....Red Bull's strategists must have known that Mercedes saved 2 mediums for the race and going for 2 stops. Mercedes is their true competitor, it's their job to keep an eye on their closest competitor.

    Red Bull themselves also saved one set of softs for Max. I just can't realistically believe that Red Bull thought they could make a one stop work in Spain. "Could be Hungary all over again"...yet they didn't try anything to counter Mercedes.

    It was a strategic blunder and not going to be the only one. We shall see how Red Bull plays their strategy this year. With the championship pressure lingering over their head, they are going to make mistakes. Max has already made couple of costly mistakes and now his team is doing the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSC Fan View Post
    Totally agree with this. When it's someone else who messes up, it's just another opportunity for them or some reason that they tried the best they could but when we make a mistake it's because we're clowns. Can't wait to see RB mess up even more.

    I have yet to see a reputibale article saying that RedBull made a mistake at this race.......let alone the race in Hungary in 2019.

    Yet, I have given or posted 2 articles, and there are more, that say it was not RedBull's mistake or blunder.
    It's not how start but how you finish.

  30. #420
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    Wouldn't have mattered what Red Bull did. Merc had them covered. No way Max would have made up that much time on Hamilton if the roles were reversed.

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