Ferrari F1-75 Discussion Thread

[SS454]

Have you read such analyzes on the net? (I haven't taken the time to do this yet)
Can anyone think they can judge a concept of hours worked with a wind tunnel just by looking at a single pic for 1 min ?

Nobody has done an analysis yet, no point until the actual launch so they can see all parts of the car.

[Gilles]

Now I'm no aero guy but I don't follow your logic here, what's the basic thing that you are seeing wrong again?

About venting hot air from the louvers this is something that has been banned for a few years so the fact that we have not seen it for years does not mean its wrong.
I've been following https://www.youtube.com/c/KYLEDRIVES and he did not say that the Aston was wrong to do so he actually praised it for effectively channeling the hot air under the rear wing which will be very similar to what Ferrari are doing.

As for the side pods being "huge" to my eye they are not, I think I can actually see an undercut that's not that obvious from the picture. Notice the transition from red to black, there's a gradient there thus a shadow thus an undercut.
The side pods also seem to tighten faster than then to ones on the Aston, while all other cars have a massive cannon at the back to extract hot air. Which was something that I recall was also frowned upon back when Ferrari did it a few years back but ok ... it seems Ferrari is never right no matter what they do...
Another thing about the side pods, look at the sculpting, they are very intricate they are doing something clever there.

Then look at the nose, it looks much shorter than what we have seen to date and in theory opens up more air for the floor where most of the down force is generated this year.

Exactly

[Gilles]

Nobody has done an analysis yet, no point until the actual launch so they can see all parts of the car.

wise
But it's more the time limit before seeing more than the little to see that will prevent them from writing a worthless analysis

[Grimlock]

undercut.png
Pardon my gimp skills, this is what I'm maybe tricking my self into seeing.
I'm sort of seeing an undercut there.

[SS454]

Now I'm no aero guy but I don't follow your logic here, what's the basic thing that you are seeing wrong again?

About venting hot air from the louvers this is something that has been banned for a few years so the fact that we have not seen it for years does not mean its wrong.
I've been following https://www.youtube.com/c/KYLEDRIVES and he did not say that the Aston was wrong to do so he actually praised it for effectively channeling the hot air under the rear wing which will be very similar to what Ferrari are doing.

As for the side pods being "huge" to my eye they are not, I think I can actually see an undercut that's not that obvious from the picture. Notice the transition from red to black, there's a gradient there thus a shadow thus an undercut.
The side pods also seem to tighten faster than then to ones on the Aston, while all other cars have a massive cannon at the back to extract hot air. Which was something that I recall was also frowned upon back when Ferrari did it a few years back but ok ... it seems Ferrari is never right no matter what they do...
Another thing about the side pods, look at the sculpting, they are very intricate they are doing something clever there.

Then look at the nose, it looks much shorter than what we have seen to date and in theory opens up more air for the floor where most of the down force is generated this year.

I sub to Kyleengineer as well and I really enjoy his analysis and respect his insight since he was an actual aerodynamicist for Mercedes F1.

Like most things, there is always a compromise to a design. We know that air going into the chassis needs to have a way of getting out to be most efficient. We also know the minimum amount of air going through the car is ideal. If the aero guys could close up all the ducts 100%, they would be happy campers, but that's not feasible. In the case of AM, they have an extreme undercut which allows the air to flow under the sidepod all the way to the diffuser, which helps the efficiency of the diffuser. The louvers are a good way to get rid of the hot air, though even Kyle mentions how it is dirty air that will disrupt the flow towards perhaps the beam wing or the rear wing. If AM could not have louvers with the same sidepods, I am sure they would. But it's a good cooling solution for their sidepod design. Ferrari on the other hand have very little undercut, judging from that picture. It appears to be a relatively flat surface around the Ceva and Shell logos, and the distance from the lower sidepod to the edge of the floor is only a few inches. A much smaller undercut than AM, or any other team. I can't see how the air will flow towards the diffuser like it does on the AM with such a small undercut. In general sidepod volume, the Ferrari's does not appear to be nearly as tight as the AlphaTauri for example, so in my eyes the Ferrari sidepods are the largest. There are cooling openings at the rear A arm connection point (the A of Santander) as well as a small opening around the exhaust. Yet they still are using a full set of louvers as well. This doesn't suggest the cleanest airflow to the rear of the car.

Of course this all based off 1 simple picture and it is virtually impossible to know for sure without seeing more.

Looking closer, it appears maybe the sidepod is shaped similar to that of the F399 or the McLaren MP4-26. This could keep the airflow on the top of the sidepods in between the rear tires. The angle right off the sidepod inlet is being used to kick the wake outwards and away from the rear tires, so I can't figure a good way or good reason to want airflow attached to the flat surface of the sidepod (Ceva & Shell logos).

I didn't bother looking at the nose of the car, can't comment much on something that is mostly hidden.

[SS454]

wise
But it's more the time limit before seeing more than the little to see that will prevent them from writing a worthless analysis

Without seeing the whole car, nobody can do a full analysis and too many details will be missed. As you said, it will be pretty much worthless.

My first glance from 1 pic has me concerned. I hope a lot more is discovered when the car is officially launched.

[SS454]

undercut.png
Pardon my gimp skills, this is what I'm maybe tricking my self into seeing.
I'm sort of seeing an undercut there.

Compare that to the AMR22.

[Grimlock]

I sub to Kyleengineer as well and I really enjoy his analysis and respect his insight since he was an actual aerodynamicist for Mercedes F1.

Like most things, there is always a compromise to a design. We know that air going into the chassis needs to have a way of getting out to be most efficient. We also know the minimum amount of air going through the car is ideal. If the aero guys could close up all the ducts 100%, they would be happy campers, but that's not feasible. In the case of AM, they have an extreme undercut which allows the air to flow under the sidepod all the way to the diffuser, which helps the efficiency of the diffuser. The louvers are a good way to get rid of the hot air, though even Kyle mentions how it is dirty air that will disrupt the flow towards perhaps the beam wing or the rear wing. If AM could not have louvers with the same sidepods, I am sure they would. But it's a good cooling solution for their sidepod design. Ferrari on the other hand have very little undercut, judging from that picture. It appears to be a relatively flat surface around the Ceva and Shell logos, and the distance from the lower sidepod to the edge of the floor is only a few inches. A much smaller undercut than AM, or any other team. I can't see how the air will flow towards the diffuser like it does on the AM with such a small undercut. In general sidepod volume, the Ferrari's does not appear to be nearly as tight as the AlphaTauri for example, so in my eyes the Ferrari sidepods are the largest. There are cooling openings at the rear A arm connection point (the A of Santander) as well as a small opening around the exhaust. Yet they still are using a full set of louvers as well. This doesn't suggest the cleanest airflow to the rear of the car.

Of course this all based off 1 simple picture and it is virtually impossible to know for sure without seeing more.

Looking closer, it appears maybe the sidepod is shaped similar to that of the F399 or the McLaren MP4-26. This could keep the airflow on the top of the sidepods in between the rear tires. The angle right off the sidepod inlet is being used to kick the wake outwards and away from the rear tires, so I can't figure a good way or good reason to want airflow attached to the flat surface of the sidepod (Ceva & Shell logos).

I didn't bother looking at the nose of the car, can't comment much on something that is mostly hidden.

Appreciate the insight, I missed the extra cooling exit near the Santander logo. It does seem like the AM louvers are running further down then the Ferrari. I still will be clinging to hope about there being an under cut.

Also this quite from Jean Alesi makes me hopeful:
"I saw the Ferrari earlier. It is a real marvel, very, very slim, with a bit of a sophisticated nose.
The car is already impressive, and I hope it will go as fast to join the two [best] teams we had last year with Mercedes and Red Bull."

I mean he saw more for the car than a single picture at an angle, so maybe it really is tighter than it looks there.

[jgonzalesm6]

I've taken some aerodynamic classes in college.

With regards to cooling louvers on top of the sidepod in F1, they are not aerodynamically efficient to dissipate heat.

I've seen cooling louvers next to the drivers cockpit as being more aerodynamically efficient. Also, the rear openings of the engine cover before the rear axle as well is more aerodynamically efficient.

[SS454]

Appreciate the insight, I missed the extra cooling exit near the Santander logo. It does seem like the AM louvers are running further down then the Ferrari. I still will be clinging to hope about there being an under cut.

Also this quite from Jean Alesi makes me hopeful:
"I saw the Ferrari earlier. It is a real marvel, very, very slim, with a bit of a sophisticated nose.
The car is already impressive, and I hope it will go as fast to join the two [best] teams we had last year with Mercedes and Red Bull."

I mean he saw more for the car than a single picture at an angle, so maybe it really is tighter than it looks there.

I sure hope so. I am very curious about the nose. For years, Ferrari have been behind in the nose department. Everyone went slim and they kept their wide, flat profile.

[Gilles]

I sure hope so. I am very curious about the nose. For years, Ferrari have been behind in the nose department. Everyone went slim and they kept their wide, flat profile.

Looking to the nose, it seems that the main plan is curling up in the center part, going upward to connect the cone
This could be the kind of chanel i expect to see

[Gilles]

I've taken some aerodynamic classes in college.

With regards to cooling louvers on top of the sidepod in F1, they are not aerodynamically efficient to dissipate heat.

I've seen cooling louvers next to the drivers cockpit as being more aerodynamically efficient. Also, the rear openings of the engine cover before the rear axle as well is more aerodynamically efficient.

Ok but this year, louvers can be quite larger than before and i think teams could find some benefit to use them. Remember some years back Renault cars, Ferrari ones as well, they can't have use them without reason

[jgonzalesm6]

This year, louvers can be quite larger than before and i think teams could find some benefit to use them. Remember some years back Renault cars, Ferrari ones as well, they can't have use them without reason

The conundrum is you want the sidepods as smooth (aerodynamically) as possible. Putting louvers on top of the sidepods increases heat dissipation but also increases drag.

Maybe for a track like Monaco or Singapore one might use the louvers on top of the sidepods where speed is not an issue. However, for tracks like Spa, Monza and Baku speed is a factor and you want the minimum drag as possible.

[jgonzalesm6]

I've also noticed that some cars have a higher nose to ground clearance while other have a closer nose to ground clearance.

IMO, the closer nose to ground is more aerodynamically efficient.

[djmorin27]

Maybe ferrari did this on purpose and had it leaked to throw everyone off for tomorrow.jean alesi said he saw the car in private and said very unique nose and very very slim car and people will be in shock when they see it tomorrow

[Galvonero]

Só apparently today there was a private presentation for some VIP Guests. The leaked picture IS THE REAL DEAL... But it seems that however shared just shared the least revealing of it, otherwise see the comments of Jean Alesi abbot the nose...

https://f1i.com/news/432092-alleged-...oes-viral.html

Can't wait to see it tomorrow ������

[Galvonero]

So apparently today there was a private presentation for some VIP Guests. The leaked picture IS THE REAL DEAL... But it seems that whoever shared just shared the least revealing picture of it, otherwise see the comments of Jean Alesi abbout the nose...

https://f1i.com/news/432092-alleged-...oes-viral.html

[SS454]

Só apparently today there was a private presentation for some VIP Guests. The leaked picture IS THE REAL DEAL... But it seems that however shared just shared the least revealing of it, otherwise see the comments of Jean Alesi abbot the nose...

https://f1i.com/news/432092-alleged-...oes-viral.html

Can't wait to see it tomorrow ������

which one of those VIP's is now a VUIP (very unimportant) guest?

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari design develope all the rest just produce poor copies no matter what car from f1 to super cars to rd cars including suv range,and those deranged morons from other car makers always think they have produced something special good luck with that thought numbskull.

[SS454]

The conundrum is you want the sidepods as smooth (aerodynamically) as possible. Putting louvers on top of the sidepods increases heat dissipation but also increases drag.

Maybe for a track like Monaco or Singapore one might use the louvers on top of the sidepods where speed is not an issue. However, for tracks like Spa, Monza and Baku speed is a factor and you want the minimum drag as possible.

It's always very interesting to see how teams manage their cooling solutions, especially mid to late 2000s.

2003 Ferrari comes out with the shark gils
2004 Ferrari retains the shark gils to begin the season, but move to chimneys because they blew the hot air to the outside of the car, which was more efficient.
2005 Ferrari used fins that guided air to the side winglets, but when needed had chimney's and gils. The car had some cooling efficiency issues.
Renault had chimneys and used full body louvers.
2007 Ferrari and Renault are using full body louvers, but McLaren are using the chimneys still.

It's such a compromise. Upper body airflow vs lower body airflow, drag vs downforce, cooling vs aero.

[Silent Bob]

I think it's going to be hard to judge these cars right now. At first glance the Ferrari doesn't seem as detailed or as finished as the AT or the Wiliams even. But, Binotto does say that most of the gains are to be found under the car in the new ground effects diffusers. I take this to mean that the coke bottle maybe isn't as critical as it was before because the diffuser outlets are so much taller that perhaps working the air from the top of the pods down to the diffuser works better. Plus it opens a better path to the rear wing.

[Silent Bob]

Is it legal to have open air space along the nose to funnel air to the top of the sidepods? It almost looks like that's what Ferrari is doing with the long narrow cooling openings on the front of the side pods. Might be the picture, but it seems the cooling openings are away from the nose and there is a channel for air to flow through onto the scalloped part of the sidepod.

[Silent Bob]

It would be clever to use the sidepod cooling openings to enclose the side impact bars but leave the part closest to the nose open so air is allowed to enter the top of the pods and the cooling opening is moved to the outside towards the bulkier part. so there is a channel for air to run along the nose and onto the dip in the sidepods unencumbered.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari launch F1-75 | F1 2022 Car Launch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nvDe5VPHXI

[tifosi1993]

oh, so youre an aerodynamicist now??? why dont you send your CV to them? maybe they'll hire you....lmao

I bet if it was the Red Bull, he would've been fangirling all over it.

According to Mr. Expert Aerodynamicist, our boxier sidepod is "horrendously" big. Which is a false statement ofcourse. It seems Mr. Expert Aerodynamicist only looking at it in top view....

The sidepods bottom side remain very close to the floor edge. Also it's nothing like the AM. The AM has big undercut and coke bottle area. Ferrari on the other hand is completely opposite.

[tifosi1993]

Why do you think front could be either pull/push ? I see push-rod, with large inlets channel oriented rods
Also, i see two pillars rear wing, but maybe your are describing the front wing
For the nose, i don't see it too much, and i think it could be a fake one, as most team maybe did

Yeah, it's look to be push-rod, as I've said before.
Look at the rear wing pillars again. The years of neck support, or should I say swan necks, are no longer present. It's a completely different thing.

[20000rpm]

Just for fun, while we wait for the real launch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0Z4OfX0PvE
Hope our car is as strong as a tank as in the video..:d

[SS454]

I bet if it was the Red Bull, he would've been fangirling all over it.

According to Mr. Expert Aerodynamicist, our boxier sidepod is "horrendously" big. Which is a false statement ofcourse. It seems Mr. Expert Aerodynamicist only looking at it in top view....

The sidepods bottom side remain very close to the floor edge. Also it's nothing like the AM. The AM has big undercut and coke bottle area. Ferrari on the other hand is completely opposite.

Always trying to start a fight hey man?

I guess I must be Mr Expert Aerodynamcist since you literally said everything I did and pretend you thought of it yourself. That alone is laughable, but then you go to agree with the fact the Ferrari's sidepod extends nearly to the floor edge and that AM has the bigger undercut, and then you say the my observation that Ferrari's sidepods look huge is "false".

[XXX132]

Always trying to start a fight hey man?

I guess I must be Mr Expert Aerodynamcist since you literally said everything I did and pretend you thought of it yourself. That alone is laughable, but then you go to agree with the fact the Ferrari's sidepod extends nearly to the floor edge and that AM has the bigger undercut, and then you say the my observation that Ferrari's sidepods look huge is "false".

Relax guys, season hasn't started yet. Plenty of time to kill each other... Nobody knows for sure if this is "the car", some previous version of it, a mock up or photoshopped image. Design is always a compromise so some aspects of the design may seem less than ideal when viewed in isolation, but without knowing the overall design concept, its irrelevant. Bodywork comes and goes throughout the season. As long as the motor kicks butts, and the basic car is a rocketship, it's all good.

Let everyone see the side of the car, because with any luck all they'll see for the rest of the season is the rear end.

[tifosi1993]

Always trying to start a fight hey man?

I guess I must be Mr Expert Aerodynamcist since you literally said everything I did and pretend you thought of it yourself. That alone is laughable, but then you go to agree with the fact the Ferrari's sidepod extends nearly to the floor edge and that AM has the bigger undercut, and then you say the my observation that Ferrari's sidepods look huge is "false".

Just calling out your usual BS.

Hey, I'm not the one who dubbed our car as "worst design" already. Since you can give judgement on whether a car has great or bad design just by looking at a single picture, so it's a pretty big question why an expert like yourself haven't been employed by a F1 team yet.

I bet when you saw the Red Bull, you deemed it to be the greatest design eva, even if it was just the slow car with Red Bull's average looking livery.