Ferrari F1-75 Discussion Thread

[Tony]

I don't quite understand, didn't Ferrari confirm just last week that upgrades were coming? They would have already known that it was a modified sprint race weekend no? I could swear I report an article quoting Binotto as mentioning ths was the case....

[tifosi1993]

Rumors says we won’t introduce any Update in Imola. As there is limited time to prepare before Sprint race.

Sensible decision. Bringing major upgrades during a sprint weekend doesn't make sense to me. We're not under any desperate situation nor do we lack pace.

But Binotto specifically talked about the porpoising issue. It seems Ferrari will try to solve this annoying occurrence in Imola. They had brought an experimental diffuser in Australia and tested it expensively during the FP1. So let's see, if Ferrari manages to run the F1-75 lower to the ground without any porpoising, then the lap time gain will be substantial.

[paneristi]

Looking damn good down there
https://www.planetf1.com/news/helmut...bull-problems/

[aroutis]

I don't quite understand, didn't Ferrari confirm just last week that upgrades were coming? They would have already known that it was a modified sprint race weekend no? I could swear I report an article quoting Binotto as mentioning ths was the case....

Actually I do understand.
If whatever setup change they did in the last race worked better than expected, they see no real reason to push further for Imola, and they push back for next race ; if you ask me, this may be a really good strategy.

[Gilles]

Actually I do understand.
If whatever setup change they did in the last race worked better than expected, they see no real reason to push further for Imola, and they push back for next race ; if you ask me, this may be a really good strategy.

It's kind of like a duel, when the first one shoots and misses, you gotta take your time to adjust it

[Tony]

Actually I do understand.
If whatever setup change they did in the last race worked better than expected, they see no real reason to push further for Imola, and they push back for next race ; if you ask me, this may be a really good strategy.

Let's hope it's this! I think if Ferrari continues to make positive changes, the gap they have may prove to be too great for Red Bull to recover, so there may be some races where the Red Bull is stronger because they have brought new parts whereas Ferrari is at a different rate of development and will gain back any losses at a later race.

[tpe]

Just a thought, is there a rule governing the amount wind tunnel time / CFD time dedicated to a particular project that is overseen by the FIA? Just thinking out loud though, but if this trend continues and Ferrari continues to have an advantage througout the year, is there anything stopping them from using whatever is left from this years budget to start working on the 2022 project so that they can keep their advantage going into next year or does the FIA govern what you spend time working on related to your budget? If that's not governed, it's great news for Ferrari who can finish higher than last year but still have the benefit of more wind tunnel testing dedicated to next years project!

Just wanted to clarify what I'm saying, I understand the windtunnel time is governed by the position from last year, what I mean is, is there something stopping Ferrari from using part of its 2022 budget (if there's anything left) to next year's project?

CFD and wind tunnel time is governed by position in the WDC during the year as well. I don't recall the cut-off time, but at some point Ferrari will have less time than RB and Merc

[SS454]

CFD and wind tunnel time is governed by position in the WDC during the year as well. I don't recall the cut-off time, but at some point Ferrari will have less time than RB and Merc

Isn't their 2022 CFD and wind tunnel time dictated by their 2021 results?

[PURE PASSION]

�� | The legendary Rory Byrne, who designed Michael Schumacher's championship winning cars, may be one of the keys to success for Ferrari this season.In 2020, Mattia Binotto brought the influential South African designer out of retirement to provide the Ferrari engineering and design team with advice and support. He has been supplying Ferrari with his ideas ever since.Now, earlier this year, after testing, Ferrari announced that they had extended the consulting contract with Byrne by three years. The extension of the contract sounds like a huge thank you. Byrne seems to have done a super job in his role.This year's Ferrari has similar characteristics to those of the Schumacher-Ferraris from the successful era: they were also fast everywhere and in all conditions, had great traction and always got the best out of the tires. That could be Byrne's signature.Gerhard Berger, on the topic, said: “Byrne is just as much of a genius as Newey. In the 1980s, like today, we had major problems with extreme bouncing on the straight. Rory Byrne was already working on the subject back then.”Coincidentally, Mercedes loses a lot of time due to the bouncing on the straights, but Ferrari does not. This could be a consequence of Byrne’s research and genius.

Source F1insidercom

[SS454]

�� | The legendary Rory Byrne, who designed Michael Schumacher's championship winning cars, may be one of the keys to success for Ferrari this season.In 2020, Mattia Binotto brought the influential South African designer out of retirement to provide the Ferrari engineering and design team with advice and support. He has been supplying Ferrari with his ideas ever since.Now, earlier this year, after testing, Ferrari announced that they had extended the consulting contract with Byrne by three years. The extension of the contract sounds like a huge thank you. Byrne seems to have done a super job in his role.This year's Ferrari has similar characteristics to those of the Schumacher-Ferraris from the successful era: they were also fast everywhere and in all conditions, had great traction and always got the best out of the tires. That could be Byrne's signature.Gerhard Berger, on the topic, said: “Byrne is just as much of a genius as Newey. In the 1980s, like today, we had major problems with extreme bouncing on the straight. Rory Byrne was already working on the subject back then.”Coincidentally, Mercedes loses a lot of time due to the bouncing on the straights, but Ferrari does not. This could be a consequence of Byrne’s research and genius.

Source F1insidercom

I 100% believe Rory Byrne is a key element to their 2022 success. Their PU improvements is a massive part of it too, but the look at the radical aero design, and it's working.

I personally believe Rory Byrne is better than Newey. Newey has designed some incredibly fast cars, but a lot of his designs suffer from reliability. Bryne tends to design cars that are fast, but also are able to finish races. I remember 1999 when the F399 was as fast as the McLaren (at least in the race), but suffered just 3 or so mechanical failures all season.

[Gilles]

I 100% believe Rory Byrne is a key element to their 2022 success. Their PU improvements is a massive part of it too, but the look at the radical aero design, and it's working.

I personally believe Rory Byrne is better than Newey. Newey has designed some incredibly fast cars, but a lot of his designs suffer from reliability. Bryne tends to design cars that are fast, but also are able to finish races. I remember 1999 when the F399 was as fast as the McLaren (at least in the race), but suffered just 3 or so mechanical failures all season.

I often thought Newey's work was too complex. He seems to love technique like an art and push it to the point that sometimes, it doesn't work out easily, or that something too extreme destroys the result. Byrne seems more pragmatic to me, he starts from something solid although innovative and he develops it year after year to end up with a beast
As this year the car is a beast right from the start, i can't imagine how good will be the following ones

[jgonzalesm6]

I often thought Newey's work was too complex. He seems to love technique like an art and push it to the point that sometimes, it doesn't work out easily, or that something too extreme destroys the result. Byrne seems more pragmatic to me, he starts from something solid although innovative and he develops it year after year to end up with a beast
As this year the car is a beast right from the start, i can't imagine how good will be the following ones

Newey comes from a long list of successful pedigree of F1 cars. Yes he's made some bad ones. I would take Newey over Byrne when it comes to F1 aerodynmacists....hands down.

[FF1]

I may attend Monza race this year. Just need a few suggestions on the best seats. From F1 destination website it mentions the best grandstands are 8A, 6C and 6B for the best racing experience. Can anyone confirm this or suggest any other better seats. Also what will be the cost of the tickets and how and where to buy from. I am from New Zealand and looking for 2 adult tickets. Thanks

[paolo lalli]

Unravelling an Adrian Newey car when he has got it wrong is easier said then done,you alter one thing and you upset another,remove a part and all hell brakes loose.Red bull have stated they will be on par with ferrari at the next race thats fine,but they will see ferrari advance also,this is the issue.In f1 if you get it wrong coming out of the box you as a team are on the back foot,mercedes is a standout with the getting getting it wrong from the word go so to speak.Now with capped budgets this makes the task of fixing problems increasingly more difficult.

[SS454]

I often thought Newey's work was too complex. He seems to love technique like an art and push it to the point that sometimes, it doesn't work out easily, or that something too extreme destroys the result. Byrne seems more pragmatic to me, he starts from something solid although innovative and he develops it year after year to end up with a beast
As this year the car is a beast right from the start, i can't imagine how good will be the following ones

Ferrari were the kings of evolution with in the 2000s.

[SS454]

Newey comes from a long list of successful pedigree of F1 cars. Yes he's made some bad ones. I would take Newey over Byrne when it comes to F1 aerodynmacists....hands down.

I wouldn't. Not that I would say either Adrian or Rory are aerodynamicists, they design the concept and the aero team make the body and wings to work around that concept. In any case, I think Rory has proved to have better aero, or at least better chassis' than Newey's cars many times.

1994 Williams was faster than the Benetton B194, but the Benetton developed the high nose and almost certainly had a better chassis, but an inferior engine.

1995, Williams copied Benetton with the high nose design.

1997 Ferrari F310B was completely new body work over an old chassis foundation and it the car nearly won against the much more refined and more powerful Williams - Renault.

1998 F300 I believe had the better chassis, especially when they went to the parascope style exhaust. McLaren had the much better Mercedes engine, and arguably better Bridgestone tires.

1999 F399 had the best chassis

2000-2004 Ferrari had better chassis/aero than McLarens. We can't forget the McLaren MP4-18 that was a flop.

F2005 wasn't nearly as bad as it performed because of its tires, but I'd still say Newey designed a better car than Byrne, yet despite being the fastest car, it still lost out to Renault.

2006 Ferrari was better than the Red Bull, but that's not a fair comparison.

Byrne stepped down as chief designer at the end of 06 which mean his last car he started designing was likely the F2007, which won the championship. He isn't given credit for that car even though it's design would have been started between March and May of 2006.

From there Rory Byrne became a consultant and Newey designed some amazing cars between 2010 and 2013.

[jgonzalesm6]

Newey designed some amazing cars between 2010 and 2013.

Newey also designed some amazing cars from 2014 to present.......they just had a bad engine (Renualt),...until Honda arrived.

[SS454]

Newey also designed some amazing cars from 2014 to present.......they just had a bad engine (Renualt),...until Honda arrived.

Agreed. I think 2017-2021 they were always at or near the top of having the best chassis

[Gilles]

Newey comes from a long list of successful pedigree of F1 cars. Yes he's made some bad ones. I would take Newey over Byrne when it comes to F1 aerodynmacists....hands down.

I'm not sure.
Moreover, I believe that its main fault is not to accept auto-limiting innovation to the reasonable and not to accept that this kind of limit is imposed to him
In Ferrari, this kind of mentality could be dangerous (conducive to clans)

[Gilles]

I wouldn't. Not that I would say either Adrian or Rory are aerodynamicists, they design the concept and the aero team make the body and wings to work around that concept. In any case, I think Rory has proved to have better aero, or at least better chassis' than Newey's cars many times.

1994 Williams was faster than the Benetton B194, but the Benetton developed the high nose and almost certainly had a better chassis, but an inferior engine.

1995, Williams copied Benetton with the high nose design.

1997 Ferrari F310B was completely new body work over an old chassis foundation and it the car nearly won against the much more refined and more powerful Williams - Renault.

1998 F300 I believe had the better chassis, especially when they went to the parascope style exhaust. McLaren had the much better Mercedes engine, and arguably better Bridgestone tires.

1999 F399 had the best chassis

2000-2004 Ferrari had better chassis/aero than McLarens. We can't forget the McLaren MP4-18 that was a flop.

F2005 wasn't nearly as bad as it performed because of its tires, but I'd still say Newey designed a better car than Byrne, yet despite being the fastest car, it still lost out to Renault.

2006 Ferrari was better than the Red Bull, but that's not a fair comparison.

Byrne stepped down as chief designer at the end of 06 which mean his last car he started designing was likely the F2007, which won the championship. He isn't given credit for that car even though it's design would have been started between March and May of 2006.

From there Rory Byrne became a consultant and Newey designed some amazing cars between 2010 and 2013.

This is what i think too, thanks

[tifosi1993]

Duchessa: https://www.quotidiano.net/blog/turr...uchessa-5.7420

Why Ferrari has a clear advantage

The dawn of Melbourne has shown some interesting things that the first two rounds have to some extent masked by some unfavorable episodes.

Ferrari has an advantage in knowledge of its car that is not always quantifiable. Some choices, risky for others, have not frightened the Maranello technicians. One of them, above all, is the technical acceptance of porpoising, or some of the problems that can result from it, in order to maintain high performance in medium-fast corners.

Problems that are of a purely physical nature, i.e. affecting the driver's driving or concentration. Then there is the risk of eating the rear tires too soon. Something that - you will remember - happened to Mercedes in Bahrain, forced to repeated pit stops.

The set-up chosen by Leclerc and his engineers has paid off, frankly beyond expectations. A little more load at the back, certainly as much load as possible at the front and a few more HP to try to lengthen or defend themselves - if necessary - from Verstappen's Drs in the 18 seconds of the fast section, the one opposite the finish line.

In order to put more load in front, you have to be able to afford it in terms of budget. That is, where the overall balance does not suffer. This was Red Bull's limit, and by the way it was what the old SF21 could never do.

Christian Horner's car was simply too worse than expected to be true, a bit too close to Mercedes (especially with Perez) than to Ferrari.

Does that explain a Mercedes improvement?

No. Both Russell and Hamilton did a very good race with the material at hand. However, they didn't get close to the Ferrari, they would have finished at 50 seconds without the neutralizations. Max - just to say - at 25 or 30 seconds. So the RB18 took a step backwards, we think occasional, net of the "unacceptable reliability", words of the world champion.

The developments that will bring - in theory at Imola - will help it 100% because we're talking about a weight saving with ballast-load-consumption balanced a bit better. Something close to 2 tenths. Ferrari will respond by trying to lower the car even more when an evolved base under development arrives. What worries the opponents is that the F1-75 is still travelling higher off the ground, which suggests that it has unexplored setup possibilities should it resolve. The lower the single-seater, the better the efficiency on the straight, plus it is finally possible to soften the suspension in favor of the slow.

Certainly, we move forward with the certainty that Ferrari knows its car better than anyone. An invisible and uncopyable advantage, even for Newey.
He can prepare it well because he knows what to expect, as was the case with the long-awaited SF70H, but this time he will also have the power... in a targeted manner, when needed.

Of course, the road is long and today's values can change compared to Melbourne, I remember Kimi giving 20 seconds to Alonso and Hamilton in 2007, but then Mclaren reacted immediately. So, be careful, but I never thought that Albert Park was such a bad track, for sure it has always shown who has a good front end.

Finally, I would like to add that the beloved Imola - after years of undeserved oblivion - is finally waiting for what it deserves: a great public and a Ferrari that arrives as a winner.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

[SFTifoso]

Duchessa: https://www.quotidiano.net/blog/turr...uchessa-5.7420

I knew it. Ferrari has accepted porposing for the time being, if the changes that cause it make the car faster.

[jgonzalesm6]

Rumor:

New floor to debut in Imola to help reduce the porpoising effect.

[tpe]

Isn't their 2022 CFD and wind tunnel time dictated by their 2021 results?

Up to June 30. Then, they do an new calculation.
So, it's dynamic

[nani_s23]

Some Ferrari rumors from Motorsport Italy:

• allegedly the new updated floor [to help against the bouncing] will debut in Imola

• new updated hybrid part [MGU-K, battery, CE] to already debut in Miami

• PU2 is set to debut in Barcelona

[Tony]

It's a bit unclear to me, can Ferrari claim to be directing their resources for the 2021 season but instead be working on the 2022 car, is there some kind of audit of this done by the FIA?

[Gilles]

That's what i read too
Imola : updated floor
Miami : updated electric parts
Barcelona : more power from PU2
https://scuderiafans.com/ferrari-pla...-in-barcelona/

[Gilles]

It's a bit unclear to me, can Ferrari claim to be directing their resources for the 2021 season but instead be working on the 2022 car, is there some kind of audit of this done by the FIA?

I know Fia checks tool usage times, but it couldn't get more accurate than that. If we add the one-year postponement of the new regulations, the covid, the possibility of working on a car in order to evaluate something compatible on the next one, it becomes complicated. Personally, I think SF has been working on the f1-75 for a long time, one way or another. This is what, last year, made me say, against the continuation of a bad scenario, that we would have a good car this year.

[Gilles]

Chales :
“The mentality is a bit different from the last two years. Now I know I have a car that can win and I don't need to overdo it or do anything really special and spectacular to get a position or two. The machine has great potential and I just have to do my job well. As for developments, keeping up with RedBull will be difficult. But those who built our machine and those who will work on its development are the same, so I'm confident. Updates are coming soon and I'm sure they'll keep us moving in the right direction. So I wouldn't focus too much on other people, we have to focus on ourselves. "

[JacKy]

There is a rumor that we are working on Rear Suspension for porpoising reduction.