2021 Mexican Grand Prix - Race Thread

[SS454]

yup, like he did from 2017 until 2020.....fake and FREE WDC's......

2017 and 2018 Lewis had to work for half a season and then it was back to domination. 2019 was dominant until Ferrari got their car sorted with their legal illegal PU that Lewis complained about so much the FIA disassembled Ferrari's entire PU. 2020 was one of, if not his most dominant seasons. Lewis's last fight over a season was against Rosberg in 2016, and he lost.

[FerrariF60]

2017 and 2018 Lewis had to work for half a season and then it was back to domination. 2019 was dominant until Ferrari got their car sorted with their legal illegal PU that Lewis complained about so much the FIA disassembled Ferrari's entire PU. 2020 was one of, if not his most dominant seasons. Lewis's last fight over a season was against Rosberg in 2016, and he lost.

merc had by far the best engine from 2014 onwards............ferrari was only better in 19 midseason when they, well pushed the envelope TOO extremes with the engine.
they were only giving us false hope in 17 18 so to make it more interesting a bit....then Merc turned up the engines and...bye, bye....

this season the Merc has a real issue/threat with the honda engine.....honda is making them go in an uncomfortable state where they really push the engine and making them NOT as realiable as they were.....ONLY WISH IT WAS FERRARI THAT DID THAT....maybe next year??? we can only hope

[20000rpm]

Still don't understand, based on what some people here had optimism that we are going to do great?! Don't get me wrong, with this car 5th and 6th is more than max!

Most definitely there was people claiming Ferrari could keep up with Red Bull and Mercedes, and there was some thinking Ferrari had a decent shot at a win in Mexico.

I think 5th and 6th are the targets each race. If everything goes straight forward, Max, Ham, Bot, Per is your top 4. So technically they finished the best they should have on paper going into the race.

Bingo!!! Some people over-read into the timings and data and come with ultra-realistic assumptions that we are near to RB, Max and blah blah. There are so many factors at play on the tract to determine the competitiveness. A car being competitive generally, can be less competitive due to, for instance, wind direction, track temps, amongst others. Analysis over 1-2 races after an update is never going to give you a full idea about how you fare in the competition.
Our target was to be 3rd in WCC and we are inching closer towards it.
The first top four slots are already occupied and they can keep juggling amongst themselves under normal race. We have slots from fifth onwards and we are achieving it. We should be happy with that.

[ntukza]

I think it's quite simple: Charles was not able to challenge Gasly. Carlos thought he was faster and that he might be able to pass Gasly. It would mean more points for the team. So they gave him the chance to try. When it turned out that he could do no more than Charles could, they gave Charles the position back. By doing so, there will be no unnessesary tension between the drivers.

Yes but my argument is that Carlos really was quicker than Charles, so he was right. He didn't challenge Gasly but he was much further up the road from Charles. I submit that the speed and tyre delta between the two of them would have enabled Carlos to pass anyway. It would have been a bit messy and damaging to their race, so the team order made it cleaner, but in any case Carlos would have passed so he deserved to stay ahead even without catching Gasly.

[Toothlessrage*]

Yes but my argument is that Carlos really was quicker than Charles, so he was right. He didn't challenge Gasly but he was much further up the road from Charles. I submit that the speed and tyre delta between the two of them would have enabled Carlos to pass anyway. It would have been a bit messy and damaging to their race, so the team order made it cleaner, but in any case Carlos would have passed so he deserved to stay ahead even without catching Gasly.

What you're saying does make sense in the scenario where the machine is competitive and that they would be fighting for the championship.
Right now, the SF is trying to build a solid base with good team dynamics to last well into the future.

In short for this race, Charles was slower. But, not significantly slower. Sainz was faster. But, not significantly faster.
There must've been other factors that we might not know.
SF played it safe with the strategy primarily concentrating on
scoring because there was much to lose. In terms of; points, driver stability/morale, team stability/morale, and so on.
Also, IMHO; the team/Binnoto feels that Sainz is more mature and less reckless than Charles.

[stefa]

[stefa]

Always somebody else fault...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ha...start/6757524/

[samboozik]

Always somebody else fault...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ha...start/6757524/

Well this year Bottas is not helping him so he's feeling the heat big time, and I'm really enjoying it.

[PURE PASSION]

Always somebody else fault...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ha...start/6757524/

The King,NEVER!!!!!!!

[Riccardog]

hearing croft whinging about the backmarkers not helping ham, was nauseating, but a. davidson interview with toto, ending with... commiserations on finishing second, was vomit enducing!
F1 has become a british formula sadly......

[20000rpm]

hearing croft whinging about the backmarkers not helping ham, was nauseating, but a. davidson interview with toto, ending with... commiserations on finishing second, was vomit enducing!
F1 has become a british formula sadly......

Wished we had AI or some feature to shut crofty's idiotic commentary during the race. Sky won't do it, but some other streams could look into it.

[Toothlessrage*]

URL: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kr...perez-context/

Kravitz: Hamilton was not being disrespectful to Perez

Sir Lewis / Sir Holier Than Thou: “It just shows how fast their car (RBR) was when Sergio was that close behind me and able to follow that closely.”

Kravitz: “It might have sounded disrespectful when Lewis Hamilton was saying, ‘we know Red Bull have a fast car when Checo Perez is pressuring me from behind. It might have sounded, you know, ‘hang on, Lewis, Checo’s alright’ – bear in mind that, for the whole of the season, Hamilton has been comfortably ahead of Checo Perez.
That goes towards Checo learning how to drive the car fast but also bear in mind that Lewis knows he kind of has the measure of Checo Perez on pure driver performance himself because they were team-mates way back when. So, I think maybe that’s it. I know Lewis does respect Checo enormously, so I just think if you did hear Lewis saying [that], I think he’s just putting into context the previous performance of the Red Bull in the hands of Perez, maybe not appreciating that Perez has made a step forward with his performance.”

[Tifoso Svedese]

I'm not going to drag Hammy for that, Checo is a plain average driver who lucked into a win last year and a top seat as a result of it. Either of our drivers would beat him with ease in the same car.

[SilverSpeed]

Other manufacturers should be paying attention to Honda's turbo charger. It's best in the field.

Because they have experience with aviation engine's and turbines etc.

[stefa]

Well this year Bottas is not helping him so he's feeling the heat big time, and I'm really enjoying it.

Me too!

[Brembo]

I'm not going to drag Hammy for that, Checo is a plain average driver who lucked into a win last year and a top seat as a result of it. Either of our drivers would beat him with ease in the same car.

Checo's win came from 18th place to the win and did it with one pit for tires. Russell got a top seat as a result of driving the top car with a good start only to finish 9th behind Bottas. That's below average driving especially for the zero points for 2 1/2 years with Merc power. Either of our drivers would have beat Russell in the same car pit stop and all. No other driver was able to out race Checo to the front and win that race. Neither Charles Carlos or Checo are plain average drivers. Had Lewis tried to cover both sides of the track when Max came around would for sure caused crash 3. What was he waiting for? Bottas may well have held back as pay back for getting kicked out of his seat for a zero driver. Meanwhile Ferrari needs a podium ASAP !

[SS454]

Always somebody else fault...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/ha...start/6757524/

I'm still waiting for Toto to blame Bottas for the wheel nut issue once again

[SS454]

URL: https://www.planetf1.com/news/ted-kr...perez-context/

Kravitz: Hamilton was not being disrespectful to Perez

Sir Lewis / Sir Holier Than Thou: “It just shows how fast their car (RBR) was when Sergio was that close behind me and able to follow that closely.”

Kravitz: “It might have sounded disrespectful when Lewis Hamilton was saying, ‘we know Red Bull have a fast car when Checo Perez is pressuring me from behind. It might have sounded, you know, ‘hang on, Lewis, Checo’s alright’ – bear in mind that, for the whole of the season, Hamilton has been comfortably ahead of Checo Perez.
That goes towards Checo learning how to drive the car fast but also bear in mind that Lewis knows he kind of has the measure of Checo Perez on pure driver performance himself because they were team-mates way back when. So, I think maybe that’s it. I know Lewis does respect Checo enormously, so I just think if you did hear Lewis saying [that], I think he’s just putting into context the previous performance of the Red Bull in the hands of Perez, maybe not appreciating that Perez has made a step forward with his performance.”

A friend of mine said it's possible Hamilton was referring to Checo being in dirty air. This would make sense and has no disrespect at all, but when big time reporter Kravitz defends Lewis' comments in what we all heard as a low blow against Perez... come on.

[Gilles]

If by competitive they meant FTW , no
If by competitive they meant better than McLaren, then they were right.

Behind Merc and RB, but not by one lap. I think they are disappointed with the pace they got, like we are

[Gilles]

Bingo!!! Some people over-read into the timings and data and come with ultra-realistic assumptions that we are near to RB, Max and blah blah. There are so many factors at play on the tract to determine the competitiveness. A car being competitive generally, can be less competitive due to, for instance, wind direction, track temps, amongst others. Analysis over 1-2 races after an update is never going to give you a full idea about how you fare in the competition.
Our target was to be 3rd in WCC and we are inching closer towards it.
The first top four slots are already occupied and they can keep juggling amongst themselves under normal race. We have slots from fifth onwards and we are achieving it. We should be happy with that.

NOBODY talked about wins and fighting for the top places!!!
Just expected a bit better performance.
Something like to be about 0,5 and P5 in Qualtly. And finish 5-6 about 30 sec behind .Something like to be a bit better of what Gasly did. That is what I was expecting. Point wise we end up just 2-4 points worst then what maximum we where expecting. But on pure performance ,yes I was expecting something more but just what i explained !!! NOTHING MORE!!!!

[Golfsmith]

F1 has become a british formula

Said that loooooong time ago.

[Gilles]

"Still don't understand, based on what some people here had optimism that we are going to do great?! Don't get me wrong, with this car 5th and 6th is more than max!"

Bingo!!! Some people over-read into the timings and data and come with ultra-realistic assumptions that we are near to RB, Max and blah blah. There are so many factors at play on the tract to determine the competitiveness. A car being competitive generally, can be less competitive due to, for instance, wind direction, track temps, amongst others. Analysis over 1-2 races after an update is never going to give you a full idea about how you fare in the competition.
Our target was to be 3rd in WCC and we are inching closer towards it.
The first top four slots are already occupied and they can keep juggling amongst themselves under normal race. We have slots from fifth onwards and we are achieving it. We should be happy with that.

I would just say that those ware strangely off! Nothing to be measured with.

Ridiculous!
I don't know what disappoints me the most, the race or maybe your attitude

[stefa]

"Still don't understand, based on what some people here had optimism that we are going to do great?! Don't get me wrong, with this car 5th and 6th is more than max!"



Ridiculous!
I don't know what disappoints me the most, the race or maybe your attitude

?! Care to elaborate?!? What about my attitude? That I am not that blindly optimistic?! Mate I am almost 50 years old and watching F1 almost 40 years, so I've seen Ferrari's ups and downs (and they ware many). So I stick to seeing is believing!

[Gilles]

?! Care to elaborate?!? What about my attitude? That I am not that blindly optimistic?! Mate I am almost 50 years old and watching F1 almost 40 years, so I've seen Ferrari's ups and downs (and they ware many). So I stick to seeing is believing!

Very impressed !
No time left to answer to you, but i will

[Gilles]

Still don't understand, based on what some people here had optimism that we are going to do great?! Don't get me wrong, with this car 5th and 6th is more than max!

I would just say that those ware strangely off! Nothing to be measured with.

It's unfortunate some people hyped up Ferrari's PU upgrade to the point they would actually challenge for wins, especially at Mexico. Using the results of races like Turkey as a guide to suggest the Ferrari was able to keep up with Max and Hamilton. Back to reality and people are depressed

Bingo!!! Some people over-read into the timings and data and come with ultra-realistic assumptions that we are near to RB, Max and blah blah. There are so many factors at play on the tract to determine the competitiveness. A car being competitive generally, can be less competitive due to, for instance, wind direction, track temps, amongst others. Analysis over 1-2 races after an update is never going to give you a full idea about how you fare in the competition.

--------------------------------------

Ridiculous!
I don't know what disappoints me the most, the race or maybe your attitude

?! Care to elaborate?!? What about my attitude? That I am not that blindly optimistic?! Mate I am almost 50 years old and watching F1 almost 40 years, so I've seen Ferrari's ups and downs (and they ware many). So I stick to seeing is believing!

Can you explain to me this sudden need for such a reckoning?
Maybe you are disappointed and find it legitimate to attack people who are more optimistic than you? On the form it is not really a sign of openness.
Basically, this is wrong. Tell us who are "some people", who said that Ferrari would win, or even that they would be at the level of RB and Mercedes? I am quiet for my part.
You will find very little in this direction and I would say that people have the right to exaggerate, to be wrong as well. If a 14 year old comes with candor and anthousiasm on this forum, you will disgrace him and he will leave

I'm sure you can understand

[SS454]

--------------------------------------




Can you explain to me this sudden need for such a reckoning?
Maybe you are disappointed and find it legitimate to attack people who are more optimistic than you? On the form it is not really a sign of openness.
Basically, this is wrong. Tell us who are "some people", who said that Ferrari would win, or even that they would be at the level of RB and Mercedes? I am quiet for my part.
You will find very little in this direction and I would say that people have the right to exaggerate, to be wrong as well. If a 14 year old comes with candor and anthousiasm on this forum, you will disgrace him and he will leave

I'm sure you can understand

Those that over hyped the Ferrari performance seemed to give false hope to people, perhaps a lot of people, perhaps you were one of those people. Post race I saw a lot of gloomy disappointing posts when Ferrari fans should be happy about a successful day. Ferrari were fast enough to get the net target of 5th and 6th which is great. The pitstops were good. They played the team game to maximize points. No driver was unfairly treated. Both drivers did a great job. It's sad when Ferrari have worked hard to improve the car and currently have achieved the goal of being better than McLaren, yet so many fans crap on that because they had completely unrealistic expectations of challenging for a win.

[Gilles]

Those that over hyped the Ferrari performance seemed to give false hope to people, perhaps a lot of people, perhaps you were one of those people. Post race I saw a lot of gloomy disappointing posts when Ferrari fans should be happy about a successful day. Ferrari were fast enough to get the net target of 5th and 6th which is great. The pitstops were good. They played the team game to maximize points. No driver was unfairly treated. Both drivers did a great job. It's sad when Ferrari have worked hard to improve the car and currently have achieved the goal of being better than McLaren, yet so many fans crap on that because they had completely unrealistic expectations of challenging for a win.

Thank you for giving your explanation. I don't know if everyone will, I doubt it to be honest
Indeed, it is clear that on the whole, I was targeted
However, I never said anything other than the reality (being able to challenge P4 in favorable track conditions, target a 0.5s+ improvement on PU side when this additional power come to limit our mean weakness, maybe like in Mexico)
Also, I agree with you on the analysis of people's disappointment
But precisely, one could expect, from people who have known F1 for years, that they know a minimum of understand what they read and also, relativize when they see an unreasonable post (or even contradict it)
Mexico City turned out to be unfavorable to our car, contrary to expectations initiated firstly by Binotto himself (did these people send him a protestation letter?), following by medias and also drivers (the most disturbing teaching of the weekend I think)
As you point out, the result was not catastrophic from an accounting point of view. Technically there was a problem and I will keep my analysis to myself
Nevertheless,I believe that with the old PU we would have done much worse, but that escapes the Cassandras of the forum
For me, the pb happens to be that I am interested in the technical aspect of F1 + exceptionally to Charles, little at the races, and it is not very compatible with some here
However, I saw some excellent technical analysis here, I would have liked to exchange on them, but without disturbing the members who are focused on the sporting aspect, and not so friendly
So I wish to the first good luck and also to those who take care of others : I really thank them
From now on I'll save my time for myself

[20000rpm]

Er... You were targetted for what?

[Jax]

i don't know about ya'll but hearing hamilton team radios after each defeat brings me pleasure :D

[stefa]

Er... You were targetted for what?

I would say little bit dramatic...