2022 Bahrain Grand Prix Thread (Practice & Qualifying)

[Greig]

I forgot that the cars were to be for 2021, makes it even more likely to be designed around Charles than Carlos.

I have to assume you know that cars get designed around a driver, which is why drive input is so important. Schumacher with Ferrari, Vettel with his Red Bulls, Verstappen with Red Bull now. This isn't some revelation that nobody knows about. You just want to argue, which is all you do.

So what happens if Leclerc mops the floor with Sainz? So far he's looked pretty strong and comfortable. Sainz comes in 2021 and not only holds his own against Charles, but ends up finishing ahead in the standings. So he has proven capable.

You want to talk about throwaway comments, all you do is bring argumentative posts.

How do you design a car around a driver who has not even tried it in the simulator? Sure you might well go down a development route that suits one driver but not at the design stage. What design features do you see that suit Charles and not Carlos?

The days of Schumacher pounding round Fiorano are long gone so not even close to being relevant to today's F1.

[SS454]

How do you design a car around a driver who has not even tried it in the simulator? Sure you might well go down a development route that suits one driver but not at the design stage. What design features do you see that suit Charles and not Carlos?

The days of Schumacher pounding round Fiorano are long gone so not even close to being relevant to today's F1.

"Hey Charles, how's the balance?" "What would you like to change?"

Yup, seem impossible.

Schumacher giving his input from lapping around Fiorano, can't be replicated in today's F1?

"Hey Max, how's the balance?" "What would you like to change?"

I don't know how drivers and teams work with each other anymore.

[Gilles]

I forgot that the cars were to be for 2021, makes it even more likely to be designed around Charles than Carlos.

I have to assume you know that cars get designed around a driver, which is why drive input is so important. Schumacher with Ferrari, Vettel with his Red Bulls, Verstappen with Red Bull now. This isn't some revelation that nobody knows about. You just want to argue, which is all you do.

So what happens if Leclerc mops the floor with Sainz? So far he's looked pretty strong and comfortable. Sainz comes in 2021 and not only holds his own against Charles, but ends up finishing ahead in the standings. So he has proven capable.

You want to talk about throwaway comments, all you do is bring argumentative posts.

I think Charles is just more confortable with the car for now. These cars runs differently from the previous ones, the drivers have to adapt themself to it. It seems Perez and Hamilton are struggling too right now. In Ferrari's case, i think Leclerc is just a very talented driver, as Max is

[Greig]

"Hey Charles, how's the balance?" "What would you like to change?"

Yup, seem impossible.

Schumacher giving his input from lapping around Fiorano, can't be replicated in today's F1?

"Hey Max, how's the balance?" "What would you like to change?"

I don't know how drivers and teams work with each other anymore.

So your saying a setup change is developing a car round the driver? Come on.....

Charles had not even been in the simulator December 21, so again how did they design this car around him when he did not even test it in the simulator?

Maybe just maybe they designed the car to be as fast as possible.....like most teams do.

[Gilles]

"Hey Charles, how's the balance?" "What would you like to change?"

Yup, seem impossible.

Schumacher giving his input from lapping around Fiorano, can't be replicated in today's F1?

"Hey Max, how's the balance?" "What would you like to change?"

I don't know how drivers and teams work with each other anymore.

Also the cars are understeer typed this year, this might suit more Carlos drive than Charles' one, don't you think?

[jgonzalesm6]

I think Charles is just more confortable with the car for now. These cars runs differently from the previous ones, the drivers have to adapt themself to it. It seems Perez and Hamilton are dtruggling too right now. In Ferrari's case, i think Leclerc is just a very talented driver, as Max is

You hit on a key word—>adapt

Alonso can adapt to the changes.

Vetted CANNOT adapt to the changes.

Ricciardo CANNOT adapt to the changes.

Norris can adapt.

Gasly can adapt.

Leclerc can adapt.

Sainz can adapt.

Max can adapt.

[SS454]

So your saying a setup change is developing a car round the driver? Come on.....

Charles had not even been in the simulator December 21, so again how did they design this car around him when he did not even test it in the simulator?

Maybe just maybe they designed the car to be as fast as possible.....like most teams do.

If you really want to believe it's impossible that Ferrari listened to the input that Leclerc said during his first 2 seasons. A phenom driver they let drive in 2019, signed big multi year deals with, invested in the future together. It's impossible that they designed a brand new car under brand new regs with his driving style in mind? A strategy teams have been doing for decades. If you don't want to believe that is possible, then whatever.

I believe it is plausible, and I think that's why Charles appears to have gotten a handle on the car quite quickly. Why this hurts you so much and you feel this really is a topic for debate is beyond me.

[SS454]

Also the cars are understeer typed this year, this might suit more Carlos drive than Charles' one, don't you think?

I think the car gets designed around the #1 driver's style where possible. It makes sense to me if the current car suits Charles' more than Carlos because of this. I don't think Sainz's style is that much different, or he's just very good at adapting because he was on the pace right away with Ferrari against Leclerc in 2021.

To me it would be silly for a team to design a car every year and just hope the drivers can figure it out. There are certain fundamental characteristics with a car under a specific rule set that drivers have to adapt to, but a design can still be influenced towards a drivers preference.

Either Max Verstappen is legit 0.5+ seconds faster than everyone, or since Ricciardo left the car has been designed specifically to his liking and every year he has a massive gap over his teammates.

[Gilles]

I think the car gets designed around the #1 driver's style where possible. It makes sense to me if the current car suits Charles' more than Carlos because of this. I don't think Sainz's style is that much different, or he's just very good at adapting because he was on the pace right away with Ferrari against Leclerc in 2021.

To me it would be silly for a team to design a car every year and just hope the drivers can figure it out. There are certain fundamental characteristics with a car under a specific rule set that drivers have to adapt to, but a design can still be influenced towards a drivers preference.

Either Max Verstappen is legit 0.5+ seconds faster than everyone, or since Ricciardo left the car has been designed specifically to his liking and every year he has a massive gap over his teammates.

I agree with you that Ferrari may have tried to design the car primarily around Charles, but under these new rules, which don't seem to be in favor of his driving, I wonder if that can explain the gap we have seen these days. Remember that he likes more oversteer than Carlos

[Greig]

I think the car gets designed around the #1 driver's style where possible. It makes sense to me if the current car suits Charles' more than Carlos because of this. I don't think Sainz's style is that much different, or he's just very good at adapting because he was on the pace right away with Ferrari against Leclerc in 2021.

To me it would be silly for a team to design a car every year and just hope the drivers can figure it out. There are certain fundamental characteristics with a car under a specific rule set that drivers have to adapt to, but a design can still be influenced towards a drivers preference.

Either Max Verstappen is legit 0.5+ seconds faster than everyone, or since Ricciardo left the car has been designed specifically to his liking and every year he has a massive gap over his teammates.

Ah so any driver who is quicker than his team mate = car designed for them...got it now

How about last years pretty strong rumours Ferrari developed the car towards Sainz?

[Greig]

If you really want to believe it's impossible that Ferrari listened to the input that Leclerc said during his first 2 seasons. A phenom driver they let drive in 2019, signed big multi year deals with, invested in the future together. It's impossible that they designed a brand new car under brand new regs with his driving style in mind? A strategy teams have been doing for decades. If you don't want to believe that is possible, then whatever.

I believe it is plausible, and I think that's why Charles appears to have gotten a handle on the car quite quickly. Why this hurts you so much and you feel this really is a topic for debate is beyond me.

Ferrari design team:

Plan A - Car is super fast but Charles might not suit it
Plan B - Car is slower but will suit Charles more

You want to tell us they would take plan B? Don't be silly car is designed to be as fast as possible then the drivers can work it out.

Ok so let's hear what design features are on the car that suit Charles more than Carlos?

[Alonsomaniac]

There is another possibility, and I thought of it because I too don't believe in Ferrari designing a car around Charles. The possibility I am talking about is talent. The last few years we had a car that was okay, but not more than that. We saw a fast Charles, but also a Charles who made mistakes. Carlos did make less mistakes, was not quite as fast as Charles but finished the season ahead of him because he scored good points in the races Charles did not finish.
Why did Charles make these mistakes? Maybe because he was faster than the car. He wanted more than the car could give him so he sometimes went over the car's limits. Carlos did not do that. Why not? Maybe the car's maximum was also somewhat his maximum?
Now we have a better, and surely faster car. Charles has the talent to push also this car to the limit, but the car lets him do that. Carlos on the other hand does not have the speed Charles has and can't get the full maximum out of this car.
The better the car is, the better the driver performs. And if the car is very good, the fastest driver will surface - Charles.

It's just a theory and I could be wrong. We will see.

[enjaybel3]

Pretty good result. 1 tenth separating us from RB at the end of FP2 is insignificant IMO.

Personally I think it's unrealistic to believe teams sandbag at a race event. They have so much to do and so little time they can't afford to.

Obviously Merc are having problems, a little more severe than most teams on the porpoising. Plus they are having some specific problem with Hamilton's car, but they will resolve it - it is just a matter of when.

Teams can't afford to run Q party modes too much because they will effect engine life and engines have to last for many race events.

We are in the hunt. The team has delivered a car close enough to the pointy end of the pack to give our drivers the chance to make the difference.

[ntukza]

Mercedes is in trouble IMO. Like I said earlier, they look bewildered. I did'nt think they would fix their porpoising issues in a week after testing.

You hit the nail on the head my friend!

[ntukza]

At worst I believe we are the second fastest team behind RB, which I don't like at all

That wouldn't be too bad since
1. We wouldn't be too far behind, and
2. They have introduced a major update since Barcelona, we haven't yet.

[ntukza]

i'm pretty sure they TOO spent the last 2 years developing the car just like we did
dont think for a sec that them developing last years car dropped the ball on this years

Exactly. It's naive to think teams like RB and Merc would compromise development on an all-new-regulations car knowing very well that other teams like Ferrari are focusing on it almost exclusively. RB and Merc's in-season upgrades were minor. I'm sure they hardly put a strain on their 2022 work.

[Cavallino]

There is another possibility, and I thought of it because I too don't believe in Ferrari designing a car around Charles. The possibility I am talking about is talent. The last few years we had a car that was okay, but not more than that. We saw a fast Charles, but also a Charles who made mistakes. Carlos did make less mistakes, was not quite as fast as Charles but finished the season ahead of him because he scored good points in the races Charles did not finish.
Why did Charles make these mistakes? Maybe because he was faster than the car. He wanted more than the car could give him so he sometimes went over the car's limits. Carlos did not do that. Why not? Maybe the car's maximum was also somewhat his maximum?
Now we have a better, and surely faster car. Charles has the talent to push also this car to the limit, but the car lets him do that. Carlos on the other hand does not have the speed Charles has and can't get the full maximum out of this car.
The better the car is, the better the driver performs. And if the car is very good, the fastest driver will surface - Charles.

It's just a theory and I could be wrong. We will see.

I think the past 2 seasons, Leclerc had nothing to lose, so you saw him take more chances to try to get the one off good result.

Hopefully he realizes he has the car and it's a long season.

But if Max tries one of his kamakaze moves, I want Leclerc to hold his ground, and I think he will.

[Cavallino]

Leclerc had half a second in hand on the mediums, and he set that time on old soft tyres... was that to help hide the pace of the car?

[nani_s23]

#AMus : RB was heavier than Ferrari and has more power in reserve to further extend their advantage.


My opinion RB/Ferrari/Mercs haven’t turned up their engines yet. Haas & Alfa R might have tried low fuel run.

[Cavallino]

#AMus : RB was heavier than Ferrari and has more power in reserve to further extend their advantage.


My opinion RB/Ferrari/Mercs haven’t turned up their engines yet. Haas & Alfa R might have tried low fuel run.

that's my gut too, since Leclerc went for more laps on the softs.

i don't think anyone knows anything,

Verstappen is gaining in the slow corners now, yet that was supposedly the Ferrari strength. Honda have more power in hand, yet they were already fastest on the straight.

Mercedes is slow on the straight because if they go any faster they bounce? Could the same be true for the Ferrari?


I tell you what though, I'll be very angry if Red Bull is fastest, especially if it is all engine, after they cried for an engine freeze after they heard that Honda was leaving.

[paneristi]

Maybe Max will be fastest in Bahrain, but that doesn't mean RB will be quickest everywhere. If we don't win, we might still get a double podium, which would be a decent start for the constructor's title.

https://www.carlossainz.es/en/carlos...p-f1-2022.html

[gump1480]

If the RB have more engine in reserve and heavier than us, yet higher top speeds on straight and faster in the corners of S2, then the game is pretty much over for us in Bahrain. But my heart says that Ferrari and LEC may still have more in reserve. Everything will be clear in Q3.

[Cavallino]

If the RB have more engine in reserve and heavier than us, yet higher top speeds on straight and faster in the corners of S2, then the game is pretty much over for us in Bahrain. But my heart says that Ferrari and LEC may still have more in reserve. Everything will be clear in Q3.

I just find it hard to believe that we would be slower on top speed than max and the Haas, and still be slower in the corners.

I get it, acceleration!=topspeed , but it would mean we went with a high downforce setup, and still can't match their cornering speed. I don't think i'm buying it.

[paneristi]

I just find it hard to believe that we would be slower on top speed than max and the Haas, and still be slower in the corners.

I get it, acceleration!=topspeed , but it would mean we went with a high downforce setup, and still can't match their cornering speed. I don't think i'm buying it.

Let’s Leave it to the experts at Ferrari garage. They should know better than us.

[nani_s23]

Let’s Leave it to the experts at Ferrari garage. They should know better than us.

Yup agree. I don’t want to see this Max running away just like Mercs in previous year.

Lec vs Max vs Carlos will be epic battle…..

[ntukza]

There is another possibility, and I thought of it because I too don't believe in Ferrari designing a car around Charles. The possibility I am talking about is talent. The last few years we had a car that was okay, but not more than that. We saw a fast Charles, but also a Charles who made mistakes. Carlos did make less mistakes, was not quite as fast as Charles but finished the season ahead of him because he scored good points in the races Charles did not finish.
Why did Charles make these mistakes? Maybe because he was faster than the car. He wanted more than the car could give him so he sometimes went over the car's limits. Carlos did not do that. Why not? Maybe the car's maximum was also somewhat his maximum?
Now we have a better, and surely faster car. Charles has the talent to push also this car to the limit, but the car lets him do that. Carlos on the other hand does not have the speed Charles has and can't get the full maximum out of this car.
The better the car is, the better the driver performs. And if the car is very good, the fastest driver will surface - Charles.

It's just a theory and I could be wrong. We will see.

Without vouching for any side of the argument, I must say I like the statement in bold.

[ferras]

Experts: the pace of the top teams should be closer, because Verstappen did his race sim with less fuel load.

[ntukza]

that's my gut too, since Leclerc went for more laps on the softs.

i don't think anyone knows anything,

Verstappen is gaining in the slow corners now, yet that was supposedly the Ferrari strength. Honda have more power in hand, yet they were already fastest on the straight.

Mercedes is slow on the straight because if they go any faster they bounce? Could the same be true for the Ferrari?


I tell you what though, I'll be very angry if Red Bull is fastest, especially if it is all engine , after they cried for an engine freeze after they heard that Honda was leaving.

My understanding is we still have an engine part to update - the part we updated late last year.

[nani_s23]

My understanding is we still have an engine part to update - the part we updated late last year.

Yes we have that advantage. Ferrari can still produce engine update

[stefa]

After two dreadful seasons, we come really good at this preseason testing and really strong in FP1 and FP2. Even if today Ferrari is not on pole, but with good time and strong 2nd and 3rd starting position I'll be satisfied! It is a long season, WDC and CWC is not won in the first race. Every point counts!