2022 Canadian Grand Prix - Buildup, Practice & Qualifying Thread

[subfire91]

Excessive heat is causing the valves to disintegrate into the turbo through the exhaust?

best thing about that is it explains Spain AND Baku.

yeah but how you fix that is the issue

redesign? new parts ? different engine map ?

quickest fix is the last one but will it be with compromise on max hp ?

[Cavallino]

yeah but how you fix that is the issue

redesign? new parts ? different engine map ?

quickest fix is the last one but will it be with compromise on max hp ?

well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier. Perhaps a bad batch of valves? That's the best case scenario.

Another solution is cooling through aero, but that also usually sacrifices performance.

and were they not able to tell the valves were disintegrating after Spain?

[TTRSMAD]

well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier. Perhaps a bad batch of valves? That's the best case scenario.

Another solution is cooling through aero, but that also usually sacrifices performance.

and were they not able to tell the valves were disintegrating after Spain?

They are going to be using less aggressive engine maps or use more fuel to cool the engine on the post injection phase. That means going back PU1 power output or keep the PU2 power and use more lift and coast in races or we risk not finishing the race.

[Gilles]

Excessive heat is causing the valves to disintegrate into the turbo through the exhaust?

best thing about that is it explains Spain AND Baku.

well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier. Perhaps a bad batch of valves? That's the best case scenario.

Another solution is cooling through aero, but that also usually sacrifices performance.

and were they not able to tell the valves were disintegrating after Spain?

If a valve had been damaged in Spain, they would not have been able to use the engine in Baku

[Cavallino]

If a valve had been damaged in Spain, they would not have been able to use the engine in Baku

but the valve disintegration caused the issue with the turbo in Spain. why couldn't they tell the valve was somehow damaged after inspection? That's what I'm saying.

[Cavallino]

They are going to be using less aggressive engine maps or use more fuel to cool the engine on the post injection phase. That means going back PU1 power output or keep the PU2 power and use more lift and coast in races or we risk not finishing the race.

nothing wrong with lift and coast for fuel comsumption purposes if we build up enough of a lead, or get some safety car periods then no need for lift and coast which is probably in Canada

[TTRSMAD]

nothing wrong with lift and coast for fuel comsumption purposes if we build up enough of a lead, or get some safety car periods then no need for lift and coast which is probably in Canada

I agree, that is why we need Sainz to start doing his job and challenging the Red Bull.

[Gilles]

but the valve disintegration caused the issue with the turbo in Spain. why couldn't they tell the valve was somehow damaged after inspection? That's what I'm saying.

If a valve had damaged Leclerc' PU2 in Spain, then they would have had to repair the PU2 to use it in Baku, probably with a damaged cylinder head and possibly even a piston, it seems to me that this is not allowed.
It seems to me that it is the mgu-h which damaged the turbo in Spain (then damaged by heat), without any damage on the ICE

[Cavallino]

If a valve had damaged Leclerc' PU2 in Spain, then they would have had to repair the PU2 to use it in Baku, probably with a damaged cylinder head and possibly even a piston, it seems to me that this is not allowed.
It seems to me that it is the mgu-h which damaged the turbo in Spain (then damaged by heat), without any damage on the ICE

ah, i was under the impression that the failure in Spain and Baku are both related to the valve problem.

which would be better because then we still need a solution for the mgu-h

luckily temperatures should be cooler in Montreal and Silverstone

[jgonzalesm6]

If a valve had damaged Leclerc' PU2 in Spain, then they would have had to repair the PU2 to use it in Baku, probably with a damaged cylinder head and possibly even a piston, it seems to me that this is not allowed.
It seems to me that it is the mgu-h which damaged the turbo in Spain (then damaged by heat), without any damage on the ICE

What valve (s) were damaged??? Exhaust or Intake??? Usually when a valve or valves get damaged or bent means it is usually a timing issue--> meaning the cam gear (again either exhaust or intake) skipped a tooth or two there-by bending the valve(s) or damaging the valve(s) by hitting the top of the cylinder head.

[Gilles]

ah, i was under the impression that the failure in Spain and Baku are both related to the valve problem.

which would be better because then we still need a solution for the mgu-h

luckily temperatures should be cooler in Montreal and Silverstone

And If the theory is that a valve was thermally damaged in Spain by the turbo (in the case of mechanical damage it would have been obligatory seen), it does not make sense too, in my opinion.

[Gilles]

What valve (s) were damaged??? Exhaust or Intake??? Usually when a valve or valves get damaged or bent means it is usually a timing issue--> meaning the cam gear (again either exhaust or intake) skipped a tooth or two there-by bending the valve(s) or damaging the valve(s) by hitting the top of the cylinder head.

In Baku, we do not know if it is a valve problem, I think someone has been looking for a link between the turbo and the ICE and has issued this theory. Without necessary looking for any distribution timing issue, it is possible that an element broke in the combustion chamber or air intake and destroyed the turbo (and probably valve(s) on it's way) . It can be a valve itself, but it can also be a ring or something else
All we know for now is that it was not a critical part and it was a different issue from the Spain one

[Cavallino]

And If the theory is that a valve was thermally damaged in Spain by the turbo (in the case of mechanical damage it would have been obligatory seen), it does not make sense too, in my opinion.

part of the problem is my weak translation abilities of the youtube video. From what i gather it said, high heat caused the disintegration of the valve material, and the debris traveled through the exhaust into the turbo.

[TTRSMAD]

part of the problem is my weak translation abilities of the youtube video. From what i gather it said, high heat caused the disintegration of the valve material, and the debris traveled through the exhaust into the turbo.

The video was implying that on the post injection phase because of tracks like Baku and Spain where your on power most of the time. Ferrari is using less fuel on the post injection phase to cool the engine thus overheating the chamber and damaging the valve which in this case started to break and parts of it going in the turbo and damaging it as well. The reason for using less fuel to cool the chamber is to save and keep some of it to stay on power for more time during the GP.
The mapping was aggressive to compete with Red Bull that is why Maxipad could not touch us on the straight even with DRS that and LDW helped too of course.

[Cavallino]

The video was implying that on the post injection phase because of tracks like Baku and Spain where your on power most of the time. Ferrari is using less fuel on the post injection phase to cool the engine thus overheating the chamber and damaging the valve which in this case started to break and parts of it going in the turbo and damaging it as well. The reason for using less fuel to cool the chamber is to save and keep some of it to stay on power for more time during the GP.
The mapping was aggressive to compete with Red Bull that is why Maxipad could not touch us on the straight even with DRS that and LDW helped too of course.

Yes, which mean the failures for Leclerc in Baku and Spain ARE related. And can be fixed by lift and coast, less aggressive mappings, or more cooling from the outside.

[stefa]

What is the weather forecast for Canadian GP? Hopefuly dry.

[Gilles]

part of the problem is my weak translation abilities of the youtube video. From what i gather it said, high heat caused the disintegration of the valve material, and the debris traveled through the exhaust into the turbo.

Possible for Baku, but not for Spain : Ice was not damaged in spain, then turbo issue can't be relative to valves there

[Gilles]

The video was implying that on the post injection phase because of tracks like Baku and Spain where your on power most of the time. Ferrari is using less fuel on the post injection phase to cool the engine thus overheating the chamber and damaging the valve which in this case started to break and parts of it going in the turbo and damaging it as well. The reason for using less fuel to cool the chamber is to save and keep some of it to stay on power for more time during the GP.
The mapping was aggressive to compete with Red Bull that is why Maxipad could not touch us on the straight even with DRS that and LDW helped too of course.

Cooling the combustion chamber with fuel is usual and gives more power, so I doubt they have reduced it so simply

[Gilles]

Yes, which mean the failures for Leclerc in Baku and Spain ARE related. And can be fixed by lift and coast, less aggressive mappings, or more cooling from the outside.

Not if you follow the logic as well as the Ferrari statements
In addition, air cooling cannot be added to obtain this type of cooling.

[aroutis]

Hopefully those that don't care just keep away for the weekend then

Ferrari 1-2

Right on.
Jesus. So typical , so the team got slapped on the face. Hey , let's stop fighting and bring on 2023, why not? Right?

[paolo lalli]

Remember there parts of the engine were run at pre season testing in much cooler conditions. The temp in Spain and Baku were much hotter the slightest fault in the piston cylinder champers will cause this to fail dramatically when being run at high speeds combined with hotter temps.I believe the fix is not to complex.I expect ferrari to come back strongly.

[Brembo]

I agree, that is why we need Sainz to start doing his job and challenging the Red Bull.

As long as Ferrari gives him a car to challenge with I believe he will b right up there with the best. He really wants to be with Ferrari!

[aroutis]

well earlier reports said it was a part that was not considered at risk and from a third party supplier.

That is what is reported and the foul thing about this, is the certification of said part was made by the supplier themselves. You are bound to go wrong with such practice. And lo and behold, what has happened.

IMHO, they need to fix the issue and find a certification process that involves someone trustworthy outside the supplier.

[aroutis]

They are going to be using less aggressive engine maps or use more fuel to cool the engine on the post injection phase. That means going back PU1 power output or keep the PU2 power and use more lift and coast in races or we risk not finishing the race.

I have heard they're going on PU3.

[FerrariF60]

What is the weather forecast for Canadian GP? Hopefuly dry.

so far the weather man says its only gonna be 18 degrees and cloudy wiht showers on Saturday and then 21 on race day.....so a LOT cooler then in Baku or spain when we had PU related issues....so that may help

[Tifoso Svedese]

Well first of all we may well need rain and hope Verstappen spins off or something. Wild hail mary to catch the gap.

[mihirshah28186]

Ferrari 1 -2 in in qualifying is for sure but am not so hopeful for the race result.

Right on.
Jesus. So typical , so the team got slapped on the face. Hey , let's stop fighting and bring on 2023, why not? Right?

[ntukza]

I think it's fine to accept that we do not have a car capable of winning the championships. Let's hope we can keep Merc behind us.

[FerrariF60]

I think it's fine to accept that we do not have a car capable of winning the championships. Let's hope we can keep Merc behind us.

It seems that way, at least with our reliability issues we have as well as penalties that Charles may encounter when getting extra power unit related parts later in the season

If we get more wins and give Maxipad a run for his money this season while we concentrate on bringing a beast of an engine and refine our car concept package even more for 2023 I’d be really happy....@nd hopefully that will be a beast

Of course I really wanted us to win this season especially after the promising winter tests as well as the good start of the year....

Oh well, it is what it is

[Gilles]

It seems that way, at least with our reliability issues we have as well as penalties that Charles may encounter when getting extra power unit related parts later in the season

If we get more wins and give Maxipad a run for his money this season while we concentrate on bringing a beast of an engine and refine our car concept package even more for 2023 I’d be really happy....@nd hopefully that will be a beast

Of course I really wanted us to win this season especially after the promising winter tests as well as the good start of the year....

Oh well, it is what it is

Charles has already broken 2 turbos
If on the PU3 they put a new turbo, it will be the fourth and Charles will be penalized already in Canada
They can also remove the turbo from friday's PU1 to put it on the PU2 the saturday