Mid-season rule change

[PURE PASSION]

That is exactly what I suggested Ferrari do a few months ago.

Create a team within the road car division for some new hypercar. The "Uber Enzo", whatever the hell you wanna call it. Run the wind tunnel 24/7. The new Merc AMG One is going to have an F1 engine in it, detuned for road use. Do the same thing. The new Uber Enzo is going to have the 066/7 engine and hybrid drive system in it and we need to make it reliable for the street. Run that puppy on the dyno stand 24/7 as well. Then, like magic, a guy in the F1 Aero department gets an idea and it just so happens to work first time out. Oh, look, the new power unit has been updated for reliability and may or may not also have 15hp more. It's so damn easy it's not even funny, and anyone not doing this is a fool of the highest order.

Is there a chance doing it already with our new LMH??

[RossTheBoss]

I never understood the "for the good of the sport" excuse every time Ferrari bent over and took it. Ferrari IS the sport. They had power, they should have wielded it like a damn broadsword and cut down anyone in their way. Instead they became timid mice. If you don't use it, you lose it, and they sure as hell lost it.

When is the last time Ferrari made a real demand? I can't recall. Red Bull to their credit, made a demand for an engine freeze, and they got it. They made serious threats to leave F1 if it didn't happen, and they worked like a charm.

Ferrari are 50% of the value of F1. They bring in the eye balls. They have the biggest fan base, the most iconic brand in racing. They pour tons of money and promotion into the sport, only to be made the villains because they dominated in the 2000's. Without Ferrari, millions of fans don't show up, half of the contracts are null and void, and the sport would crumble and go bankrupt with a season or two.

Honda and Toyota got crapped on by CART (Indycar) for changing rules constantly midseason. Audi got the same treatment from ALMS. They eventually got fed up, withdrew their cars and took the teams to other racing series, and the lights went out. It taught those leaders a hell of a lesson.

If Ferrari had any brains they'd use the leverage they have of being in LMDH and not needing F1 to get concessions for the latter.

[WS6TransAm01]

When is the last time Ferrari made a real demand? I can't recall. Red Bull to their credit, made a demand for an engine freeze, and they got it. They made serious threats to leave F1 if it didn't happen, and they worked like a charm.

Ferrari are 50% of the value of F1. They bring in the eye balls. They have the biggest fan base, the most iconic brand in racing. They pour tons of money and promotion into the sport, only to be made the villains because they dominated in the 2000's. Without Ferrari, millions of fans don't show up, half of the contracts are null and void, and the sport would crumble and go bankrupt with a season or two.

Honda and Toyota got crapped on by CART (Indycar) for changing rules constantly midseason. Audi got the same treatment from ALMS. They eventually got fed up, withdrew their cars and took the teams to other racing series, and the lights went out. It taught those leaders a hell of a lesson.

If Ferrari had any brains they'd use the leverage they have of being in LMDH and not needing F1 to get concessions for the latter.

It all boils down to leadership and having the fortitude to do it. Ferrari's leadership doesn't, and hasn't since Todd and Braun left. It's a sad state of affairs over there with no end in sight. They clearly improved the design department, but the leadership is only getting worse.

[Greig]

But despite Mercedes being so welcoming of the FIA's move, Verstappen has questioned the approach of his rival. He reckons that Mercedes is the team that has shown itself to have the most flexing floor this season. Speaking at the Red Bull Ring about Mercedes' support of the flexi-floor changes, Verstappen said: "Well, what I don't quite understand, is that they're complaining about the flexible floors while theirs is the most flexible."

[nani_s23]

[Tifoso Svedese]

When is the last time Ferrari made a real demand? I can't recall. Red Bull to their credit, made a demand for an engine freeze, and they got it. They made serious threats to leave F1 if it didn't happen, and they worked like a charm.

Ferrari are 50% of the value of F1. They bring in the eye balls. They have the biggest fan base, the most iconic brand in racing. They pour tons of money and promotion into the sport, only to be made the villains because they dominated in the 2000's. Without Ferrari, millions of fans don't show up, half of the contracts are null and void, and the sport would crumble and go bankrupt with a season or two.

Honda and Toyota got crapped on by CART (Indycar) for changing rules constantly midseason. Audi got the same treatment from ALMS. They eventually got fed up, withdrew their cars and took the teams to other racing series, and the lights went out. It taught those leaders a hell of a lesson.

If Ferrari had any brains they'd use the leverage they have of being in LMDH and not needing F1 to get concessions for the latter.

That was back in the Todt days. Since then it's all been about 'praise to our competitors', 'next year', 'for the good of the sport', 'we don't have a #1 driver', 'windtunnel correlation issues', 'technical directive' and bla, bla, bla.

If Ferrari had threatened to withdraw in 2019 over the engine stitch-up ran by Toto and Horner, things would've changed real fast.

[SS454]

That was back in the Todt days. Since then it's all been about 'praise to our competitors', 'next year', 'for the good of the sport', 'we don't have a #1 driver', 'windtunnel correlation issues', 'technical directive' and bla, bla, bla.

If Ferrari had threatened to withdraw in 2019 over the engine stitch-up ran by Toto and Horner, things would've changed real fast.

Ferrari was going to threaten to walk away because they caught playing outside the rules? Are they also going to walk away from having by far the biggest income from F1 of any team?

[RossTheBoss]

Ferrari was going to threaten to walk away because they caught playing outside the rules? Are they also going to walk away from having by far the biggest income from F1 of any team?

I have no problem with Ferrari being punished when they breach the rules. But there's been a huge consistency problem in F1 for some time in how the rules are made, and who has the influence on how those rules are enforced.

Ferrari being punished is fine. But illegal in season testing, oil burning, flex wings, and things like DAS just insulted everyone's intelligence with the idea that they were legal, when they explicitly were not, and if Ferrari had done any of those things, you can imagine the reaction in the paddock.

Even now Red Bull are making the ludicrous case that their engine department should get the benefits of being a new outfit for the 26' rules, despite being one now with Honda. Mercedes? They're just pretending the cost cap doesn't even exist with all their development.

[evo_spook]

Max being a bit of a idiot here, the sides of the floor are allowed to flex a set amount that is more then the plank is allowed to flex. They are both in the rules, so it’s not hard to understand

[evo_spook]

I have no problem with Ferrari being punished when they breach the rules. But there's been a huge consistency problem in F1 for some time in how the rules are made, and who has the influence on how those rules are enforced.

Ferrari being punished is fine. But illegal in season testing, oil burning, flex wings, and things like DAS just insulted everyone's intelligence with the idea that they were legal, when they explicitly were not, and if Ferrari had done any of those things, you can imagine the reaction in the paddock.

Even now Red Bull are making the ludicrous case that their engine department should get the benefits of being a new outfit for the 26' rules, despite being one now with Honda. Mercedes? They're just pretending the cost cap doesn't even exist with all their development.

DAS wasn’t against any existing rule. Flexing the plank and skid plate is.

[RossTheBoss]

DAS wasn’t against any existing rule. Flexing the plank and skid plate is.

DAS absolutely was against the rules then as now, explicitly so. The rules were clear that no devices may change the suspension on the car while in motion, and DAS was openly breaching that part of the regulations.

It (among other breaches by Mercedes) were only allowed because the golden boy of F1 was using it, and the pull of Mercedes in F1 these days. Any other team, it would be banned from the get-go.

And if anybody is running on the skids, it's probably Mercedes, given the sparks we've seen flying and the amount of flex that's openly visible.

[RossTheBoss]

Max being a bit of a idiot here, the sides of the floor are allowed to flex a set amount that is more then the plank is allowed to flex. They are both in the rules, so it’s not hard to understand

If you're running on the skid block, the sides of the floor will flex, too. Especially on the high speed straights.

We've seen that from the Mercedes, as well as sparks indicative of the floor hitting the track surface (titanium). Red Bull might do it, but Mercedes are clearly doing it. If they thought both Ferrari and Red Bull were doing it and they were innocent, they'd lodge a protest, or come right out and accuse them.

[tpe]

I strongly believe that Merc is involved in this flexi-floor drama.
I also think they also have this trick. I saw a picture or their floor with a brand new plank. And the plank was splitted in 2.
I thought the plank was supposed to be ONE piece, not 2.

Anyone that worked with 2 pieces materials knows that they flex at their joint. So, I believe they make all that noise in order to diverse the attention. Also, there is no way for FIA to delay the introduction of a rule that hinder RB and Ferrari.