2022 Belgian Grand Prix - Race Thread

[nani_s23]

Fernando Alonso on Ferrari:

“When Charles came to box for fastest lap, I was quite surprised. Ferrari always does strange strategies.”

[nani_s23]

Binotto is particularly suspicious of the extent of the upgrades that are coming from Red Bull. Binotto told the FIA to take a closer look when monitoring the budget limits.Red Bull is still planning to introduce a new monocoque in the season's final phase to get rid of the weight.

Binotto: "We could never afford to develop a lightweight chassis or any chassis during the season because the budget doesn't allow it."
Binotto: "I would be very surprised if that was possible for other teams. You have to ask yourself whether the monitoring is sufficient. Unfortunately, only a few people at the FIA keep an eye on it."
Binotto: "That has to improve for the future. It would be really bad if the championship is decided by the financial rules."

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari could not organise a drunken party at a wine bar, with free booze.The only team that will loose races for stupidity is ferrari.Red bull will not fail max will not fail, Binotto has already failed.

[nani_s23]

In my opinion ferrari got hit by new TD. That’s clearly evident in our S2 & sudden loss of pace.

As usual Binotto is not agreeing & hiding the truth.

On the other hand with this new TD, RB got benefitted in terms of their car operating window. They can now set up the car aggressively.

Mercs thought it would bring them closer to RB & Ferrari. Instead failed to reach RB, but now caught ferrari they can think of 2nd in WCC with this awful car.

[stefa]

Ferrari with this management will nevet win any championship!

[nani_s23]

Ferrari with this management will nevet win any championship!

My point is the same.

Binotto may be good at Technical Dept, hence send him to the same place & bring in strong leadership Principal & Strategy crew to the team.

[nani_s23]

I have one question

Mercs asked for mid rule change to counter porpoising & a new TD got into picture.

Now ferrari is bouncing a lot in the faster corners… can they go back to FIA & raise the issue?

Ofcourse I don’t see this happening under leadership of Mattia. But it’s just a question out of curiosity.

[RossTheBoss]

I have one question

Mercs asked for mid rule change to counter porpoising & a new TD got into picture.

Now ferrari is bouncing a lot in the faster corners… can they go back to FIA & raise the issue?

Ofcourse I don’t see this happening under leadership of Mattia. But it’s just a question out of curiosity.

Ferrari can lobby for anything they like. The problem is, they'll get none of what they lobby for through Binotto, as you said.

A race teams pull in the sport is only as far as how valuable they are to the sport, and how willing the leaders of the team are to withdraw that value from the sport if certain conditions are not met for their participation in. IOW, the FIA have feared Mercedes and Hamilton leaving, they also fear Red Bull doing the same. That's gotten them huge concessions from the FIA, from engine freezes and huge midseason rule changes, all the way up to getting the chief steward fired from his job. Ferrari don't have that pull anymore, because the FIA believe Ferrari would never quit F1.

[paolo lalli]

Even Max's visor strip he ripped off found its way into Charles car brake duct cant take a trick that is what caused smoke from the brakes, he had to come in and this compromised his race somewhat.As for political clout with the FIA I believe they know ferrari are all bark and no bite they have heard the idol threats time and time again.

[stefa]

This situation reminds me a lot of Ferrari in 80s and in 90s. From time to time competative car with some poles and wins, and that is max what can achieve. As long as these people are in the management of Ferrari, they will NOT win any championship!

[SB92]

Binotto is particularly suspicious of the extent of the upgrades that are coming from Red Bull. Binotto told the FIA to take a closer look when monitoring the budget limits.Red Bull is still planning to introduce a new monocoque in the season's final phase to get rid of the weight.

Binotto: "We could never afford to develop a lightweight chassis or any chassis during the season because the budget doesn't allow it."
Binotto: "I would be very surprised if that was possible for other teams. You have to ask yourself whether the monitoring is sufficient. Unfortunately, only a few people at the FIA keep an eye on it."
Binotto: "That has to improve for the future. It would be really bad if the championship is decided by the financial rules."

Was Binotto dropped on his head as a child? Look at how many upgrades even Merc are bringing to each weekend, although their basic car concept is nowhere near ours. Ferrari brings the least number of meaningful upgrades among all the major teams. If he thinks that the rest are cheating, then he should aggressively bring it up with the FIA. Otherwise, he should try to have the technical apartment push the envelope, but they will only get caught with their pants down, as in 2019.

Im amazed as to how someone this moronically incompetent has been with the team for so long. It speaks poorly of Ferrari to have such an idiot as TP.

[SB92]

This situation reminds me a lot of Ferrari in 80s and in 90s. From time to time competative car with some poles and wins, and that is max what can achieve. As long as these people are in the management of Ferrari, they will NOT win any championship!

Leave alone the 80s and the 90s, this is the worst the team has been since Todt left. Although there were numerous blunders, the team fought for the championship till the final race in 2008, 2010 and 2012 and were not very far off in 2017-18 either. Under Binotto, we have won only 7 races in 4 seasons, had a season like 2020 (our worst since 1980) and got caught cheating in 2019. I would gladly take the Ferrari of 2010-13 or 2015-18 in a heartbeat over the that we have now.

[Rishu]

Pretty sure the team atmosphere is very stressful, race engineers asking drivers what tyres they want, team not informing about penalty to it's drivers, if I recall correct Charles got a reprimand from Binotto as well (of course which he denied). When communication within is not what it should be, clear signs trust is broken

[Greig]

Red Bull are certainly cheating the budget cap, remember Horner very vocal about getting it increased just because of inflation, now they are bringing out new lightweight chassis.....

[racingbradley]

Red Bull are certainly cheating the budget cap, remember Horner very vocal about getting it increased just because of inflation, now they are bringing out new lightweight chassis.....

Why cannot Ferrari do the same instead of sitting on their high horses. (pardon the pun}

[samboozik]

Why cannot Ferrari do the same instead of sitting on their high horses. (pardon the pun}

Because if there is any sort of justice left in F1, they should be penalised and stripped form their championships. Why should we break the rules?

[Tifoso Svedese]

I really doubt Red Bull will have to do a settlement 'for the good of the sport' but they're obviously cheating, yes. Having said that, if all top teams did the same and held the line mutually against the FIA they would have no leg to stand on. If Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari all get caught doing the same thing and keep each others' backs, the FIA aren't going to exclude the teams and drivers that bring money into the sport. Rather than Binotto's naïve attempt at following the stupid cap in the first place, he should've colluded with Horner and Toto all along to make fools of the cost cap clowns.

[Liscia]

No honor among cheats? I doubt that coalition against FIAsco would work for very long if it could ever even form?

[Silent Bob]

Binotto is the worst TP Ferrari have EVER had. When he got Ferrari caught out on the fuel meter TD in 19', that should've told everyone that he was a total buffoon. Now, it's happened again. One of Ferrari's advantages is found out in the grey area of the rules, and Binotto had no plan on how to avoid an embarrassing pace drop that would reveal it.

Fire him. Show him and the rest of the management the door. Enough is enough. And before one his pitiful apologists asks "bbbbbut, who will replace Binotto and his band of clowns? Other teams will hire them!". No front running team in their right minds is going to hire the likes of Binotto and Rueda. They're not gluttons for embarrassment like the Ferrari board are.

It comes down to money.

They say you get what you pay for, and it's no secret that Binotto makes far less than Wolff and Horner. The latter are businessmen, who want to do whatever it takes to win, by looking for only the best, pushing them, and firing dead weight. That's how you have to run a race team. Like a business. Because that's what it is.

Schumacher, Todt, Brawn, and Byrne weren't cheap. Hell, neither were other techs like Costa and Allison, the latter of whom got poached by Mercedes. And that's it, the dream team was as expensive AF, and Elkaan and the rest of the Ferrari board believe they're above doing that, even as Red Bull poach like crazy. Ferrari these days would rather ride the coattails of old success, and pay Binotto 1/3 (if that) of the likes of a qualified TP.

Wasn't Marchionne in charge when Ferrari developed the 2019 engine. Didn't he say he was encouraging the team to think outside the box and not play it safe, to push the grey area? But everyone said Marchionne was 'The Guy'.
How many times did Ferrari offer Newey a contract? If I recall it was an insane amount of money they offered him. He turned the offers down for a few reasons, one of which was the blame mentality in the team... one which you seem to subscribe to.
But let's do it your way. Let's do a mass firing of the team right now. Get rid of anyone that's made a bad decision or a mistake in the last year.... then put the word out and see how many top guys will be rushing to fill those places knowing that if they f... up they'll be fired. Happy hunting.

[nani_s23]

Wasn't Marchionne in charge when Ferrari developed the 2019 engine. Didn't he say he was encouraging the team to think outside the box and not play it safe, to push the grey area? But everyone said Marchionne was 'The Guy'.
How many times did Ferrari offer Newey a contract? If I recall it was an insane amount of money they offered him. He turned the offers down for a few reasons, one of which was the blame mentality in the team... one which you seem to subscribe to.
But let's do it your way. Let's do a mass firing of the team right now. Get rid of anyone that's made a bad decision or a mistake in the last year.... then put the word out and see how many top guys will be rushing to fill those places knowing that if they f... up they'll be fired. Happy hunting.

Pit wall mistakes were only this year? It’s been going around for a while.
I hardly success rate at 50% from the out wall.

For me ferrari is here to win, not to settle for couple of victories. I don’t want know what is going on internally. There are lot of issues at Current Ferrari

1. No vision
2. No clear communication
3. No trust
4. No accountability
5. No sign of accepting the mistake & addressing it.

When season started Mattia said, “title is not our goal, we are looking much more than that”. What is it?

Alonso spent 5 years with Ferrari without title.
Vettel spent 5 years with Ferrari without title
Leclerc currently in his 4th year with Ferrari.

Next who is the target?

[JPZ]

Mercedes brought in a basically redesigned car and now Red Bull as well.

The TD clearly favoured Mercedes as well, and it seems Red Bull too.

Politically, the other teams are lobbying and it's working for them.

[Silent Bob]

Pit wall mistakes were only this year? It’s been going around for a while.
I hardly success rate at 50% from the out wall.

For me ferrari is here to win, not to settle for couple of victories. I don’t want know what is going on internally. There are lot of issues at Current Ferrari

1. No vision
2. No clear communication
3. No trust
4. No accountability
5. No sign of accepting the mistake & addressing it.

When season started Mattia said, “title is not our goal, we are looking much more than that”. What is it?

Alonso spent 5 years with Ferrari without title.
Vettel spent 5 years with Ferrari without title
Leclerc currently in his 4th year with Ferrari.

Next who is the target?

We got rid of Costa when Alonso was driving for us - he was fired for not producing a winning car. Guess he was a pretty crap designer.

Allison left during Vettel's time, I didn't really rate him that highly anyways and he's brought his magic to Merc this year.

Who do we fire this year mid way through the season? The guys that designed a car that can compete at the front of the grid? The guys that designed the engine? The pit crew? Of course Binotto musty go, because without a TP, Ferrari will do so much better.

Of course these errors and mistakes are disappointing and they should be addressed immediately, but not by a widespread firing. Binotto and Ferrari gave a very clear direction of their timelines to getting back to the top and dominating. I think they were very specific. They said they are putting pieces in place to build a team that can compete at the top. They came out maybe stronger than they expected.
Maybe all us pitiful apologists are just realists that have seen these cycles before, have watched the revolving door of talent being pushed out and going to other teams because we can't be patient enough to give the team a chance.
Bet a lot of you guys would have wanted Todt and Brawn kicked out of Ferrari in 1996 & 1997, maybe should have gotten rid of Byrne after 98 & 99.

[Silent Bob]

Mercedes brought in a basically redesigned car and now Red Bull as well.

The TD clearly favoured Mercedes as well, and it seems Red Bull too.

Politically, the other teams are lobbying and it's working for them.

Mercs car is still slower than ours. After how many redesigns?

[JPZ]

Mercs car is still slower than ours. After how many redesigns?

Not talking about performance, but the budget cap.

[Redfive]

I think we now have to accept that both titles are gone this year now and quite frankly, We've not been outraced or outdeveloped but our management and strategy has handed the titles to RBR.

[FerrariF60]

I think we now have to accept that both titles are gone this year now and quite frankly, We've not been outraced or outdeveloped but our management and strategy has handed the titles to RBR.

yes we have a quick car, or at least we had one until Hungary (in practice when it was HOT as during the race when it got colder out pace seemed to have dissapeared); weather or NOT this new TD taht was introduced for Spa really affected our pace it's yet to be seen at teh next race.

if we're still lacking massive pace in Zanvoort compared to red fools, then YES, i would agree taht this latest TD in regards to the floor is indeed hurting us.

Spa was always gonna hurt us in terms of pace compared to red fools as their car is way more efficient with less drag.
i
i personally think that what's hurting us the most is COOL WEATHER.....we can't seem to fire up those tires and find a proper balance to work the tires evenly front/back as we do when is really HOT temperatures ...or maybe it takes time to bring them up to temp quickly when it's COLD.

we seem to to have NO issues when is really HOT with bringing the tires to operating temperature to extract maximum performace from the car.

Red fools on teh other hand seem to struggle when really HOT by chewing up the tires more and faster as we've seen in austria and other HOT races.

so for next year's evolution of this car, Ferrari needs to take that into account, how to widen the working range of the tires....weather be a suspension redesign....etc

[Gilles]

Who do we fire this year mid way through the season?

Marcos and Rueda at least and maybe Binotto because he didn't fired them himself and also for all his lies

[Gilles]

This situation reminds me a lot of Ferrari in 80s and in 90s. From time to time competative car with some poles and wins, and that is max what can achieve. As long as these people are in the management of Ferrari, they will NOT win any championship!

I would be much more pessimistic, the car was a contender for victory most of the races and Charles would have won many races so far this year, with this car but with a real professional team.
The team has never been worse in the 80s and 90s, and I’m afraid I’ve never even seen such a bad team in F1
Even if they decided on the strategy for Leclerc by reading in the bowels of a chicken they would have better results

[stefa]

I would be much more pessimistic, the car was a contender for victory most of the races and Charles would have won many races so far this year, with this car but with a real professional team.
The team has never been worse in the 80s and 90s, and I’m afraid I’ve never even seen such a bad team in F1
Even if they decided on the strategy for Leclerc by reading in the bowels of a chicken they would have better results

Anyway this period is dark....

[Gilles]

Anyway this period is dark....

Not everything is dark, as Silvia Napoletano wrote, at least, we were the fastest in the pitlane