2022 Dutch Grand Prix - Race Thread

[racingbradley]

That sums it all up, and still Binotto and his 'team' don't appear to have a clue as to where our pace has gone and why we're suffering such bad tyre deg. The pitlane and strategy errors just keep piling up and we're a laughing stock. Both Charles and Carlos did their best but it's painful to watch our team embarrass themselves every weekend. God help us in Monza.

Agree with that Wisepie. I felt sorry for Carlos when they had only three wheels for his wagon. A repeat of an incident when Eddie drove for us. I have a feeling Felipe had a similar experience. Poor Carlos had 2 terrible pit stops. AS for Charles give him the car to win races with.

[nani_s23]

Sky Ted Kravitz reports few of them revoked their tickets for Italian GP.

Such a pathetic commentator’s we have.

[nani_s23]

Comments from Nico Rosberg on Ferrari & Mattia Binotto are straight to the point. Well said.

Mattia is a technician not a leader in managing the team. Ferrari need fundamental changes.

[tpe]

There is a positive to take away from this race!
Even Merc repeats the same stupid mistakes!

[nani_s23]

There is a positive to take away from this race!
Even Merc repeats the same stupid mistakes!

Mercs 30pts & ferrari 19pts for this race.

Nico Rosberg: "Even Formula 2 and Formula 3 teams do a better job at managing a race than Ferrari."

[RossTheBoss]

109 point behind. Nothing to celebrate. It’s shameful and pathetic.

Ferrari started the first 3 races of this season on fire. Then, once they came to Miami, it'll came apart.

The incompetence is honestly the worst I've ever seen at Ferrari, even compared to when they had slower cars.

Ferrari are going to lose 3rd in the WCC, behind Mercedes, who started off being mocked for how bad their car was. Now, Mercedes are the paddock praise for turning their season around, while Ferrari are seen as a high speed Monty Python skit, who's management are criminally incompetent.

The blame has kicked up from Binotto to Elkaan and the Ferrari board themselves for allowing this clown show to go on, and on, and on. What's worse, Elkaan and company don't really care about racing like Luca did. It's not in the Ferrari boards blood enough to care, and to fix the once greatest race team ever.
.

[RossTheBoss]

Comments from Nico Rosberg on Ferrari & Mattia Binotto are straight to the point. Well said.

Mattia is a technician not a leader in managing the team. Ferrari need fundamental changes.

If I were TP at Ferrari, I'd fire everyone in charge of race operations and begin promoting internally and poaching from other race teams around the world for the best engineers and strategists, and pay the premium for them. Stop trying to do cutsey strategy, and learn how to simply shadow your rivals when leading, split strategies when pursuing, and pay attention to drivers feedback.

Team orders next year. Complaints from media need not be addressed. The clear WDC level drivers (90% Charles) gets the upgrades first, the primary strategy, and is made way for on track by the other team car, pure and simple. Ferrari should not be afraid to use Todt era orders.

The car design department is by and large fine, but could use an extra designer on the team.

Yes, none of this is happening.

[paolo lalli]

Third in drivers and third in constructors thats how its looking now.Ferrari could be out of money so no more major development while the other teams have applied smart accounting and are continually developing such a drop off is really strange, while redbull continues to surge and mercedes is closing in fast.Red bull will win easily in Italy and mercedes will edge ferrari then watch out the crowd will erupt expect booing calorie directed at ferrari from the tiffosi they are not a forgiving bunch.Ferrari are in no man's land, and why is the burning questions.

[SB92]

If I were TP at Ferrari, I'd fire everyone in charge of race operations and begin promoting internally and poaching from other race teams around the world for the best engineers and strategists, and pay the premium for them. Stop trying to do cutsey strategy, and learn how to simply shadow your rivals when leading, split strategies when pursuing, and pay attention to drivers feedback.

Team orders next year. Complaints from media need not be addressed. The clear WDC level drivers (90% Charles) gets the upgrades first, the primary strategy, and is made way for on track by the other team car, pure and simple. Ferrari should not be afraid to use Todt era orders.

The car design department is by and large fine, but could use an extra designer on the team.

Yes, none of this is happening.

Team orders should come into play only when the championship is in contention. Other than that, I agree with your points.

[nani_s23]

If I were TP at Ferrari, I'd fire everyone in charge of race operations and begin promoting internally and poaching from other race teams around the world for the best engineers and strategists, and pay the premium for them. Stop trying to do cutsey strategy, and learn how to simply shadow your rivals when leading, split strategies when pursuing, and pay attention to drivers feedback.

Team orders next year. Complaints from media need not be addressed. The clear WDC level drivers (90% Charles) gets the upgrades first, the primary strategy, and is made way for on track by the other team car, pure and simple. Ferrari should not be afraid to use Todt era orders.

The car design department is by and large fine, but could use an extra designer on the team.

Yes, none of this is happening.

Car is not the problem. Our car is still the base one only.
Not upgraded like RB & Mercs.

For me, it’s simple Charles is fastest driver among the two & is the only one who can take the challenge to max provided strong race car. Build the team around him & Charles should stop making mistakes.

This is how you can win championships. MSC/Vettel/Alonso team was built around them & they were fighting for titles. You can’t change that now & say “oh no both drivers need a chance”. It doesn’t work out in that way. This is where the first problem is.


Lewis won titles because team was built around him, Max is winning now of the same reason. Ferrari is no different Mattia should realise that first

[The Architect]

All my sporting interests did well this weekend (no mean feat when that also includes Man Utd) except Ferrari yet again. What a calamitous race. Feels like 2020 all over again. Expect to tumble down the grid after qualifying. The team screwed Sainz this time while we seem to have fallen behind Merc in race pace. Maybe time to abandon the season and focus on next year? What's the point when it's all going to unfold the same way again? Where's the progress under Binotto? I just don't see it.

[Liscia]

Binotto: "Today we are not satisfied. We weren't fast. We made a mess in Carlos' pit. With Charles we were unlucky in strategy. We think Carlos lost pace in the incident with Lewis. We will do our best in Monza."

There you have it gentlemen: "We will do our best in Monza"
An early apology in advance of next Sunday's debacle from our oh so polite team principal.

[RossTheBoss]

Car is not the problem. Our car is still the base one only.
Not upgraded like RB & Mercs.

For me, it’s simple Charles is fastest driver among the two & is the only one who can take the challenge to max provided strong race car. Build the team around him & Charles should stop making mistakes.

This is how you can win championships. MSC/Vettel/Alonso team was built around them & they were fighting for titles. You can’t change that now & say “oh no both drivers need a chance”. It doesn’t work out in that way. This is where the first problem is.


Lewis won titles because team was built around him, Max is winning now of the same reason. Ferrari is no different Mattia should realise that first

100%

Charles only has made two mistakes. San Marino, which was minor, and France which was all him. The difference between Leclerc (and TBF, Sainz, too) and Binotto is, Leclerc takes ownership for his mistakes, while Binotto gaslights and pretends that mistakes in race operations and strategy are not mistakes at all, and in fact are just peachy. Someone with that mentality will never take Ferrari to the top again.

[RossTheBoss]

If Binotto said after the races "We made a mistake. We thought X would work, but it didn't, and we cost Charles/Sainz the race. We're sorry to him" I'd be able to believe he could grow as a leader. Instead he gaslights everyone and pretends that everything is just peachy, which tells me he has personal emotions towards the race engineers making this constant mistakes, wherein he'll never fire them, no matter what they cost the team.

And before the Binotto apologists start, there's not wanting a revolving door at Ferrari, and then there's being blind to what's zero accountability in leadership that's unacceptable.

You think it's bad now? Wait until the development team learn from their mistakes and give Leclerc a good enough car to dominate with. Now, imagine Reuda still being in charge of strategy and the title fight is going down to the final race of the season. Still want Binotto in charge? Inside, you know you don't in that situation.

[WS6TransAm01]

If Binotto said after the races "We made a mistake. We thought X would work, but it didn't, and we cost Charles/Sainz the race. We're sorry to him" I'd be able to believe he could grow as a leader. Instead he gaslights everyone and pretends that everything is just peachy, which tells me he has personal emotions towards the race engineers making this constant mistakes, wherein he'll never fire them, no matter what they cost the team.

And before the Binotto apologists start, there's not wanting a revolving door at Ferrari, and then there's being blind to what's zero accountability in leadership that's unacceptable.

You think it's bad now? Wait until the development team learn from their mistakes and give Leclerc a good enough car to dominate with. Now, imagine Reuda still being in charge of strategy and the title fight is going down to the final race of the season. Still want Binotto in charge? Inside, you know you don't in that situation.

I wouldn’t let Binotto in charge of a flea circus let alone a Formula1 team. The fact that he is the TP of a team as great as Ferrari is insulting to anyone and everyone. He is an abject failure as a leader. Might be a great engineer, but engineers very rarely make good leaders. This is why all the engineering companies I work with have engineers and project managers. They don’t let engineers manage ANYTHING!

[alfaromeo]

Guys, now that you've gotten over the disappointment about binotto, you're not right, it's not all his fault for ferrari's failures. Binotto should stay at Ferrari and take the position of technical director because he is a good engineer. However, he is not very good at management. Apparently the highest at ferrari for f1 races are screwing up. Because, if ferrari has managerial and organizational problems, it is the task of the highest members of the board to find a good manager for formula 1 on the market. Now it would be a mistake to fire binotta, because the f1-75 car is not bad. If we look at the Ducati Moto GP, they obviously have top organizers... so it is possible...

[paolo lalli]

To many chiefs at ferrari and far to many weak Indians.Mr John Elkan must intervene to save any more future embarrasment its becoming a week in week out occurrence and red bull and merc are expecting ****ups from ferrari .No other team in f1 history makes error after error like ferrari very very embarrassing indeed.

[nani_s23]

Guys, now that you've gotten over the disappointment about binotto, you're not right, it's not all his fault for ferrari's failures. Binotto should stay at Ferrari and take the position of technical director because he is a good engineer. However, he is not very good at management. Apparently the highest at ferrari for f1 races are screwing up. Because, if ferrari has managerial and organizational problems, it is the task of the highest members of the board to find a good manager for formula 1 on the market. Now it would be a mistake to fire binotta, because the f1-75 car is not bad. If we look at the Ducati Moto GP, they obviously have top organizers... so it is possible...

No one is saying to fire Mattia Binotto.
Keep him where he is best at, that is Chief of Technical Dept not Team Principal.

[nani_s23]

From what has been learned, Sainz's negative race is largely due to a damage to the right side of the fund generated in the contact at the start with Lewis Hamilton. The bottom broke and folded. The right sealing was missing (less load and unbalanced).

@Formu1a_uno

[Toothlessrage*]

To many chiefs at ferrari and far to many weak Indians.Mr John Elkan must intervene to save any more future embarrasment its becoming a week in week out occurrence and red bull and merc are expecting ****ups from ferrari .No other team in f1 history makes error after error like ferrari very very embarrassing indeed.

Weak Indians?
Why do you have to bring nationality into the conversation?

[RossTheBoss]

No one is saying to fire Mattia Binotto.
Keep him where he is best at, that is Chief of Technical Dept not Team Principal.

David Sanchez has been heading the design department, and has frankly earned the right to be technical director. Guy is only in his late 40's and with Cardille as his deputy and Byrne as a consultant, I actually don't think the technical department needs any changes. I would only add people, not fire anyone.

The factory guys are doing a good job, imho. I disagree with the assertion that Ferrari were out developed. The F175 was quicker than the RB18 at Bahrain, Melbourne, Spain, Monaco, Silverstone, Austria, France, and Hungary, and should've won all of those races, if not for a combo of horrible race operations and one driver error. Yes, the car is comparable in pace to Mercedes now, but the points don't reflect how much better Ferrari's car was for the first half.

[nani_s23]

David Sanchez has been heading the design department, and has frankly earned the right to be technical director. Guy is only in his late 40's and with Cardille as his deputy and Byrne as a consultant, I actually don't think the technical department needs any changes. I would only add people, not fire anyone.

The factory guys are doing a good job, imho. I disagree with the assertion that Ferrari were out developed. The F175 was quicker than the RB18 at Bahrain, Melbourne, Spain, Monaco, Silverstone, Austria, France, and Hungary, and should've won all of those races, if not for a combo of horrible race operations and one driver error. Yes, the car is comparable in pace to Mercedes now, but the points don't reflect how much better Ferrari's car was for the first half.

Bahrain … No.

RB was fastest car. It’s just their DNF caused the issue. Leclerc was smart in playing with DRS that’s it.

Melbourne/Monaco/Spain/France & Hungary …. These are the only tracks where ferrari-Leclerc was dominant.

A fastest car should be fast everywhere not limited to specific tracks.

After TD39, Ferrari lost its advantage over high & medium speed Corners, Tyre deg is heavy. F1-75 lost its balance. Which Mattia isn’t agreeing to it (off late he’s isn’t accepting anything even though issue is evident)

[aroutis]

Third in drivers and third in constructors thats how its looking now.Ferrari could be out of money so no more major development while the other teams have applied smart accounting and are continually developing such a drop off is really strange, while redbull continues to surge and mercedes is closing in fast.Red bull will win easily in Italy and mercedes will edge ferrari then watch out the crowd will erupt expect booing calorie directed at ferrari from the tiffosi they are not a forgiving bunch.Ferrari are in no man's land, and why is the burning questions.

The one thing ferrari is not out, is money.
What we 're out of , is leadership.
We need to embrace this one single truth.

Ferrari should get their head from the sand; then look at how RBR got where they are. They do nothing new, or innovative. They do what Merc did , or RBR did before, or what Ferrari did before them, which is, looking at what issues they did and kept them behind, and fixed them.
AKA , poaching from the competition.
Ferrari poached from Benneton Ford, RBR from Merc, Merc from Ferrari.
This IS F1 and that is how it works.

But no, our leader says we are doing fine, and the only time he does not do that, is when everything goes shockingly bad, when we perform worse than everyone could imagine.

So , personally, I hope that when this championship ends , and the lights are shut, behind closed doors, some bold decisions are made, and yes, heads roll cause indeed heads need to roll and replacements are made. Sorry but this is Ferrari and not the public sector.

As for Monza, what is there to say, respect the Tifosi.

[aroutis]

After TD39, Ferrari lost its advantage over high & medium speed Corners, Tyre deg is heavy. F1-75 lost its balance. Which Mattia isn’t agreeing to it (off late he’s isn’t accepting anything even though issue is evident)

And that is a sign of a weak leader who having no answers he is simply in denial.

[aroutis]

@nani_23.
I believe the car is fast but (for whatever the reason) we setup for faster quali instead of faster race pace.
We should be opting for the latter.
Also, maybe this is not so much for the aero, as much for the engine to look for as well.

[RossTheBoss]

@nani_23.
I believe the car is fast but (for whatever the reason) we setup for faster quali instead of faster race pace.
We should be opting for the latter.
Also, maybe this is not so much for the aero, as much for the engine to look for as well.

Again, blame the pit wall. They obsess about starting position, as if in modern grand prix track position is what it used to be. Ferrari have to snap out of the mentality of worrying about qualifying so much, when the ability to have consistent pace for the races is so much more important. It does no good to fly like a rocket for 8 laps, only for your tires to get chewed up and your pace drop like a stone. Red Bull and Mercedes grasped this long ago.

[Greig]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....

Some fans clearly got carried away with our start to the season, in reality Red Bull have been pretty much quicker than us or as quick the whole season, we just had some good fortune early on. People also seem to forget where Ferrari was the previous seasons, we are improving and it's not very often you improve over night in F1, Red Bull who are hailed as something to aspire too by some on here did not do it over night.

The Schumacher era is a blip in Ferrari's history and it clearly still spoils some fans with some kind of sense of entitlement. Ferrari are not mega rich like Red Bull and Merc even Renault, we have no divine right to win season after season, and the sooner some fans come to terms with that the better it will be for them.

[RossTheBoss]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....

Since the new upgrades in France the whole balance of the car appears to have shifted. In Canada-Silverstone-Austria, Ferrari had pace, tire deg, and even straight line compared to Red Bull. Now, all three have gone backwards, and the setups are thrown off.

Binotto said as much.

[stasera]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....

Some fans clearly got carried away with our start to the season, in reality Red Bull have been pretty much quicker than us or as quick the whole season, we just had some good fortune early on. People also seem to forget where Ferrari was the previous seasons, we are improving and it's not very often you improve over night in F1, Red Bull who are hailed as something to aspire too by some on here did not do it over night.

The Schumacher era is a blip in Ferrari's history and it clearly still spoils some fans with some kind of sense of entitlement. Ferrari are not mega rich like Red Bull and Merc even Renault, we have no divine right to win season after season, and the sooner some fans come to terms with that the better it will be for them.

yes but redbull is not rich, i mean not richer than us and renault too

https://latinamericanpost.com/37775-...y-in-formula-1

[stasera]

Since the new upgrades in France the whole balance of the car appears to have shifted. In Canada-Silverstone-Austria, Ferrari had pace, tire deg, and even straight line compared to Red Bull. Now, all three have gone backwards, and the setups are thrown off.

Binotto said as much.

France gp was the best performance of our cars so far in this season. Remember, Verstappen chased Leclerc with DRS for 15 laps but he wasn't able to pass through Leclerc in these straights.

for this, I blame the new regulations which brought for mercedes, more than upgrades we brought.