SF23 Discussion Thread

[jgonzalesm6]

Davis and Wilsdorf started Rolex in London but they moved their watch manufacturing to Geneva because that was the epicenter of high end watch design. Building high quality time pieces in England wasn't going to happen. I understand that Ferrari is an Italian team, but you have to go to where the talent in your industry is. As of late, sadly, that does not appear to be Italy.

That ideology doesn't work for Ferrari F1. Ferrari F1 must remain Italian AT ALL COSTS!!!............regardless if it means losing in F1.....for that is above the priority and the most important image to everyone.



.....please

[Brembo]

R bull's talent comes from where? Thy don't represent a particular R Bull country. Germany is Merc ! If anything ; Ferrari may well have to move home base to the USA soon! Who's italian in charge @ Ferrari ?

[Super M]

That ideology doesn't work for Ferrari F1. Ferrari F1 must remain Italian AT ALL COSTS!!!............regardless if it means losing in F1.....for that is above the priority and the most important image to everyone.



.....please

Agreed!!!

Ferrari must never change this philosophy at the expense of what others might say or suggest, case closed.

[Greig]

That ideology doesn't work for Ferrari F1. Ferrari F1 must remain Italian AT ALL COSTS!!!............regardless if it means losing in F1.....for that is above the priority and the most important image to everyone.



.....please

We should franchise Ferrari F1....

Rip up the history, it means nothing to you.

[Greig]

I don't mind changes in the technical department as they have been failing for many years now. My only problem is its happening at the start of a season in which we were expecting to take the fight to RB after last year's clearly capable car, therefore implying that this year's car is a technical failure. Technically, we were not bad at all last year. Our technical guys built a very good car. So it seemed like in the technical area we were finally coming right, and now here we are losing/firing technical people. It's confusing. Changes in management and race strategy are perfectly understandable because that's were we lost the championship last year.

Who did we fire?

[Toothlessrage*]

That ideology doesn't work for Ferrari F1. Ferrari F1 must remain Italian AT ALL COSTS!!!............regardless if it means losing in F1.....for that is above the priority and the most important image to everyone.



.....please

My primary worry right now is that we'd be falling into a scenario similar to that Alpine.
But, if any change has to happen - might as well happen now.

The Ferrari brass better back Vassuer - we can't have a civil war-like situation that will set us back years.
And, given how the talent poaching wars are going - I hope we snatch up some gems/good talent from other teams.

[WS6TransAm01]

We should franchise Ferrari F1....

Rip up the history, it means nothing to you.

He who controls the present, controls the past. Who cares about history if they can't win anything now? Do you really derive more enjoyment from a championship won 20 years ago than you would from one won today? Really? You prefer to live in the past?

[jgonzalesm6]

We should franchise Ferrari F1....

Rip up the history, it means nothing to you.

Honda put a facility in Milton Keynes during the turbo-hybrid era. Now this is just the PU department mind you. They managed to turn it around in 7 years, along with RedBull, and are CHAMPIONS and quite possibly will supply other F1 teams in 2026....like Mclaren.

That's the talent that's resides in the UK.

According to you, the history in Ferrari is more important than anything else.

[WS6TransAm01]

Honda put a facility in Milton Keynes during the turbo-hybrid era. Now this is just the PU department mind you. They managed to turn it around in 7 years, along with RedBull, and are CHAMPIONS and quite possibly will supply other F1 teams in 2026....like Mclaren.

That's the talent that's resides in the UK.

According to you, the history in Ferrari is more important than anything else.

The key is that it's talent that "RESIDES" in the UK. You are right. It's not just English engineers, they may be from all over the world. The point is that top quality talent would rather be in England than Italy.

[Greig]

Honda put a facility in Milton Keynes during the turbo-hybrid era. Now this is just the PU department mind you. They managed to turn it around in 7 years, along with RedBull, and are CHAMPIONS and quite possibly will supply other F1 teams in 2026....like Mclaren.

That's the talent that's resides in the UK.

According to you, the history in Ferrari is more important than anything else.

Ferrari is not a franchise, support a British based team if winning is more important than history and heritage to you.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari is not a franchise, support a British team if winning is more important than history and heritage to you.

Who said anything about a franchise? Just move the Ferrari F1 to the UK.

Firing team principals and rehiring or moving people around has been the basis for Ferrari F1.....how's that working?

So Ferrari F1's history is more important to you than more championships.....got it.

[Silent Bob]

Why is everyone all of a sudden worried about losing Ferrari personnel? Last year you guys were calling for Ferrari to gut the whole operation.. now you're worried?
Guess its a case of careful what you wish for.

[Silent Bob]

Who said anything about a franchise? Just move the Ferrari F1 to the UK.

Firing team principals and rehiring or moving people around has been the basis for Ferrari F1.....how's that working?

So Ferrari F1's history is more important to you than more championships.....got it.

The Ferrari complex in Maranello is a technical center. You don't just move something like that. And no it wouldn't be better to split up the divisions, having everything under 1 roof is probably the best solution.
I don't really believe location is the issue with getting personnel. There are probably a multitude of people who would love the opportunity to work at Ferrari, probably especially up and coming engineers.
Other than Newey, which other high level person declined to come to Ferrari because of location? Even Newey said he was about ready to come to Ferrari the last time but was turned off by Domenicalli's actions.

[Silent Bob]

Who said anything about a franchise? Just move the Ferrari F1 to the UK.

Firing team principals and rehiring or moving people around has been the basis for Ferrari F1.....how's that working?

So Ferrari F1's history is more important to you than more championships.....got it.

The Ferrari complex in Maranello is a technical center. You don't just move something like that. And no it wouldn't be better to split up the divisions, having everything under 1 roof is probably the best solution.
I don't really believe location is the issue with getting personnel. There are probably a multitude of people who would love the opportunity to work at Ferrari, probably especially up and coming engineers.
Other than Newey, which other high level person declined to come to Ferrari because of location? Even Newey said he was about ready to come to Ferrari the last time but was turned off by Domenicalli's actions.

[jgonzalesm6]

The Ferrari complex in Maranello is a technical center. You don't just move something like that. And no it wouldn't be better to split up the divisions, having everything under 1 roof is probably the best solution.
I don't really believe location is the issue with getting personnel. There are probably a multitude of people who would love the opportunity to work at Ferrari, probably especially up and coming engineers.
Other than Newey, which other high level person declined to come to Ferrari because of location? Even Newey said he was about ready to come to Ferrari the last time but was turned off by Domenicalli's actions.

It's been 15 years of having Ferrari F1 under 1 roof since the last championship.

RedBull didn't make engines for the longest time in F1 then in the turbo-hybrid era, it owns it's own powerplant(2022).

Mercedes will get back on it's feet when it trashes this sidepodless design.

Now, it looks AMRF1 looks to fight with MercedesAMGF1 and Ferrari.

All this has happened in the turbo-hybrid era.

Oh, others want to join F1 and will most likely base its HQ in the UK.

[Greig]

Who said anything about a franchise? Just move the Ferrari F1 to the UK.

Firing team principals and rehiring or moving people around has been the basis for Ferrari F1.....how's that working?

So Ferrari F1's history is more important to you than more championships.....got it.

Yeah other teams never make any personel changes....you are clueless, as said support a winning British based team if that's all that matters to you. Ferrari is Italian.

What made you a Ferrari fan to start with? Let me guess you liked the colour red?

[Greig]

The Ferrari complex in Maranello is a technical center. You don't just move something like that. And no it wouldn't be better to split up the divisions, having everything under 1 roof is probably the best solution.
I don't really believe location is the issue with getting personnel. There are probably a multitude of people who would love the opportunity to work at Ferrari, probably especially up and coming engineers.
Other than Newey, which other high level person declined to come to Ferrari because of location? Even Newey said he was about ready to come to Ferrari the last time but was turned off by Domenicalli's actions.

Nobody can name a single person who is curerently refusing to join Ferrari due to being in Italy.

[jgonzalesm6]

Yeah other teams never make any personel changes....you are clueless, as said support a winning British based team if that's all that matters to you. Ferrari is Italian.

What made you a Ferrari fan to start with? Let me guess you liked the colour red?

Winning and how they go about winning means to me. I'm never satisfied.

Schumacher and team got me to love Ferrari unfortunately that dream team is gone and disbanded.

Toto has been a staple at MercedesAMGF1.

Horner has been a staple at RedBull.

I realize personnel changes between teams BUT those changes are within the UK.

Clueless huh? You're a stubborn historian that lives in the past.

[Tony]

This thread is depressing.

[jgonzalesm6]

This thread is depressing.

He started it siiiir!

[WS6TransAm01]

Ferrari is not a franchise, support a British based team if winning is more important than history and heritage to you.

Heritage is worthless without winning. Only losers rest on the laurels of the past.

Why is everyone all of a sudden worried about losing Ferrari personnel? Last year you guys were calling for Ferrari to gut the whole operation.. now you're worried?
Guess its a case of careful what you wish for.

That isn't the worry. The worry is the apparent inability of Ferrari to attract talented engineers. The desire to gut the operation stems from the perceived lack of talent in the engineering office - the results speak to that lack. Why is the glut occurring? My personal opinion is that it is difficult is not impossible to attract high quality engineers to come to Ferrari because they don't want to live in Maranello, Italy.

The Ferrari complex in Maranello is a technical center. You don't just move something like that. And no it wouldn't be better to split up the divisions, having everything under 1 roof is probably the best solution.
I don't really believe location is the issue with getting personnel. There are probably a multitude of people who would love the opportunity to work at Ferrari, probably especially up and coming engineers.
Other than Newey, which other high level person declined to come to Ferrari because of location? Even Newey said he was about ready to come to Ferrari the last time but was turned off by Domenicalli's actions.

People would, in fact, love to work for Ferrari, just not in the middle of nowhere northern Italy. It's the same reason you won't find any large engineering firms in the middle of Wyoming or Alaska.

Nobody can name a single person who is curerently refusing to join Ferrari due to being in Italy.

Asking to prove a negative. We don't have a list of rank and file engineering Ferrari has approached, do we? And you don't either so you can't prove this isn't the case.

Show me the list of international Engineers sending resumes to Ferrari.

[Greig]

Asking to prove a negative. We don't have a list of rank and file engineering Ferrari has approached, do we? And you don't either so you can't prove this isn't the case.

Show me the list of international Engineers sending resumes to Ferrari.

Post your list of people not willing to come, we shall wait.....your the one making the claims so back it up.

[WS6TransAm01]

Post your list of people not willing to come, we shall wait.....your the one making the claims so back it up.

Again, you're asking to prove a negative. The form of debate used by room temp IQ individuals.

My theory is based on being in the Engineering and Architecture world for nearly two decades. I even spent a semester in Siena, Italy during Architecture school. No engineer worth his salt would chose Italy over England. Don't get me wrong, I would never work in either, but if forced to make the choice, I would also choose England.

How many engineers do you speak with on a daily basis?

[JPZ]

Mclaren is based in the UK and since 2008 has been doing catastrophically in comparison to Ferrari.

(I use Mclaren as an example as they are another long-standing team and traditional rivals of Ferrari)

[Greig]

Again, you're asking to prove a negative. The form of debate used by room temp IQ individuals.

My theory is based on being in the Engineering and Architecture world for nearly two decades. I even spent a semester in Siena, Italy during Architecture school. No engineer worth his salt would chose Italy over England. Don't get me wrong, I would never work in either, but if forced to make the choice, I would also choose England.

How many engineers do you speak with on a daily basis?

So you have no names, so your claim is unfounded and worthless.

[Greig]

Mclaren is based in the UK and since 2008 has been doing catastrophically in comparison to Ferrari.

Williams says hi also....

[WS6TransAm01]

So you have no names, so your claim is unfounded and worthless.

My claim is based on experience. You have nothing to disprove it other than opinion without experience. Being ignorant to the opinion of a group of people you have zero interaction with doesn't give you the upper hand.

[Greig]

My claim is based on experience. You have nothing to disprove it other than opinion without experience. Being ignorant to the opinion of a group of people you have zero interaction with doesn't give you the upper hand.

You have no idea who I interact with, again with your claims based on fresh air.

So do you have any names or not?

[Silent Bob]

Winning and how they go about winning means to me. I'm never satisfied.

Schumacher and team got me to love Ferrari unfortunately that dream team is gone and disbanded.

Toto has been a staple at MercedesAMGF1.

Horner has been a staple at RedBull.

I realize personnel changes between teams BUT those changes are within the UK.

Clueless huh? You're a stubborn historian that lives in the past.

Didn't Ferrari say that they have some new personnel from Red Bull that are going to be helping Tondi in the aero department.
Wonder if these personnel actually moved to Ferrari HQ or if they will WFH.

Toto inherited a winning team and hasn't had to deal with too much controversy, other than the Hamilton/Rosberg issue. But now, after 1 bad season, some tensions are seeming to be coming up.

Horner's done a good job at Red Bull, but there isn't the expectation there that there is at Ferrari. No one was calling for Horner to be fired when they weren't winning, no one wanted Newey fired when they were the 3rd best team.

[WS6TransAm01]

You have no idea who I interact with, again with your claims based on fresh air.

So do you have any names or not?

LOL mostly I would think you interact with cats and yourself. Maybe some OF girls.

I don't need names. I have experience.