F1 2023 Pre-Season Testing (23-25 February)

[tifosi1993]

A mixture of reactions to testing and what it may mean for our chances for 2023. It's not conclusive, of course, and we appear to have degradation issues dependent on wing spec, but I'm hopeful that not going for fastest times and headlines, we have something up our sleeves which hasn't yet been shown. Hopefully Fred and Charles are deliberately down-playing things?

Playing things down is better than playing things "up", don't you think?

Who knows, maybe Ferrari is in trouble. Maybe they aren't. But to see Ferrari is being written off already, based on winter testing, I see no logic behind it. As for the SF23, there are positive signs out there, like lighting up the mini sectors while not doing personal best in that sector, no sudden twitching, no huge lockups, almost no visible porpoising etc.

[Aziz]

Oh well, if that's what you believe, then I see no reason for you to watch any races of this year or next couple of years. See you in 2026?

Kidding aside, who knows. Maybe they wanted to see how much they will gain by opening up the DRS, maybe they wanted see whether the new wing gives greater DRS effect or not.

I like to torture myself

[ntukza]

Ferrari ran the entire Bahrain test with last year's low downforce RW and Beam wing, the ones they had used in SPA and Monza, which is at all not suitable for this track. Bahrain is a high downforce rear limited track where protecting the rear tyres is an upmost importance. But Ferrari ran the entire test with a package that is not suitable at all for this track.

So rather going around the track pointlessly and racking up lap counts, they actually did some meaningful testing this year. They wanted to rectify the problems of last year package and I believe they have achieved that. The SF23 has a very strong front end, which will be balanced out by the high downforce RW.

The signs are very positive.

Somehow, running the completely wrong car for three full days just doesn't sound smart to me.

[Brembo]

[QUOTE=ntukza;1074968]Somehow, running the completely wrong car for three full days just doesn't sound smart to me.[/QUOTE

Is Carlos the only one smart enough to sit back and let them do it?

[Lebaronrouge]

Somehow, running the completely wrong car for three full days just doesn't sound smart to me.

Not sure we can call that "the wrong car". The fact that they run with a low downforce setup is probably true. However, the fact that this setup is used for Spa or Monza and is "not suitable for this track" is an interpretation. Firstly because when we look at last year Monza wings, this year rear wing has nowhere near the same profile and has much more rake. In fact, last year, at least at the beginning of the season, the trend was that the Ferrari car was the fastest but, due to the lack of top speed, was too vulnerable against the RB of Verstappen, which was constantly running with lower downforce setups (for the wings) whilst being able to control tire degradation. So it is possible that Ferrari will follow that route to maximise the top speed and overtaking opportunities whilst finding the right set-up to limit tire degradation. This is probably why they were doing a lot of high-fuel simulations during the day when the heat was maximum and the tires were stressed. In that line, the high downforce wing will be used in races where overtaking is challenging, such as Monaco, Spain etc.

[PURE PASSION]

Somehow, running the completely wrong car for three full days just doesn't sound smart to me.

The only explaination is that this mid-low set-up is the basic set up for the majority of the races. So they just wanted to see how the car reacts in different aspects with this set up. Then on FPs they could put a more load rear config ( rear wing - beam wing -suspension etc) and fine tune it then. if this happens it will be smart from the team and a very well pre season test. IF we continue to see the same configuration next week , seems that we have some troubles with the balance and unfortunately we dont understand the car yet.

[PURE PASSION]

Not sure we can call that "the wrong car". The fact that they run with a low downforce setup is probably true. However, the fact that this setup is used for Spa or Monza and is "not suitable for this track" is an interpretation. Firstly because when we look at last year Monza wings, this year rear wing has nowhere near the same profile and has much more rake. In fact, last year, at least at the beginning of the season, the trend was that the Ferrari car was the fastest but, due to the lack of top speed, was too vulnerable against the RB of Verstappen, which was constantly running with lower downforce setups (for the wings) whilst being able to control tire degradation. So it is possible that Ferrari will follow that route to maximise the top speed and overtaking opportunities whilst finding the right set-up to limit tire degradation. This is probably why they were doing a lot of high-fuel simulations during the day when the heat was maximum and the tires were stressed. In that line, the high downforce wing will be used in races where overtaking is challenging, such as Monaco, Spain etc.

to have such a low rear wing ,you must have a dowforce beast of a car to creat so much dnf from the body/diffuser so you dont need so much the rear wing. n these three days is true that we didn't see that from our car (like RB).We didnt have so much dnf so had problems in balance that led in tire deg etc. We didn't have good conrnerng speed ,we where only good in the straights. To me there 2 things that it pyt you in front. 1st to have a car with A LOT of dnf and use less wings (so good tractions- cornering speed and top speed ) and 2nd to have a monster engine so you can use more loaded wings witch leads to very good dnf so good tire management -very good cornering speed but you have the engine to give you top speeds !!!
in the tests we didn't show either of these. To trying so low rear wing doesnt look good for the 2nd scenario. And this is a big question mark because IF we have the best-most powerfull engine,why to use less dnf??!! if we believe thet we are almost in the 1st scenario and have a good car with good dnf ,then with our engine we will blister everybody on the straights and stll not be quite begind in corners !!!!! The answer's in just 1 week !!!!!

[FerrariF60]

to have such a low rear wing ,you must have a dowforce beast of a car to creat so much dnf from the body/diffuser so you dont need so much the rear wing. n these three days is true that we didn't see that from our car (like RB).We didnt have so much dnf so had problems in balance that led in tire deg etc. We didn't have good conrnerng speed ,we where only good in the straights. To me there 2 things that it pyt you in front. 1st to have a car with A LOT of dnf and use less wings (so good tractions- cornering speed and top speed ) and 2nd to have a monster engine so you can use more loaded wings witch leads to very good dnf so good tire management -very good cornering speed but you have the engine to give you top speeds !!!
in the tests we didn't show either of these. To trying so low rear wing doesnt look good for the 2nd scenario. And this is a big question mark because IF we have the best-most powerfull engine,why to use less dnf??!! if we believe thet we are almost in the 1st scenario and have a good car with good dnf ,then with our engine we will blister everybody on the straights and stll not be quite begind in corners !!!!! The answer's in just 1 week !!!!!

or maybe, just maybe Ferrari was doing all this low DF wings nonsense test to keep the opposition guessing.....maybe we DO have a monster or an engine as well as shockingly good downforce, just that we didn't wanna show our cards and let red fools believe they are miles in front of us.....

did you guys ever think of this tactic that Ferrari has played for these particular test days??

but like you said, we'll find out in about a weeks time if we indeed were bluffing or not

[ntukza]

or maybe, just maybe Ferrari was doing all this low DF wings nonsense test to keep the opposition guessing.....maybe we DO have a monster or an engine as well as shockingly good downforce, just that we didn't wanna show our cards and let red fools believe they are miles in front of us.....

did you guys ever think of this tactic that Ferrari has played for these particular test days??

but like you said, we'll find out in about a weeks time if we indeed were bluffing or not

In other words, we don't need a 3-day test (despite it being the only test)? While others are testing their cars, we can just waste all that time fooling the opposition?

[ntukza]

Playing things down is better than playing things "up", don't you think?

Who knows, maybe Ferrari is in trouble. Maybe they aren't. But to see Ferrari is being written off already, based on winter testing, I see no logic behind it. As for the SF23, there are positive signs out there, like lighting up the mini sectors while not doing personal best in that sector, no sudden twitching, no huge lockups, almost no visible porpoising etc.

I must have been reading about a completely differently test then, because the live blog I was reading said we had all of the above.

[FerrariF60]

In other words, we don't need a 3-day test (despite it being the only test)? While others are testing their cars, we can just waste all that time fooling the opposition?

exactly....

[paneristi]

Playing things down is better than playing things "up", don't you think?

Who knows, maybe Ferrari is in trouble. Maybe they aren't. But to see Ferrari is being written off already, based on winter testing, I see no logic behind it. As for the SF23, there are positive signs out there, like lighting up the mini sectors while not doing personal best in that sector, no sudden twitching, no huge lockups, almost no visible porpoising etc.

Precisely. I remember 2004 we were confident, but not overly. We don’t want to repeat 2022. Overly confident over few races then no more win ala Binotto

[tifosi1993]

In other words, we don't need a 3-day test (despite it being the only test)? While others are testing their cars, we can just waste all that time fooling the opposition?

No, there's no "other words". Ferrari tested a lot of different setups. They wanted to see how the car would treat its tyres with a low DF setup that is not suited for this track. And I applaud them for it. Instead of doing meaningless "race sim" and other nonsense, they actually tested the car and the tyres.

I must have been reading about a completely differently test then, because the live blog I was reading said we had all of the above.

No doubt.

[Greig]

Would be pointless spending such limited testing time to just get the car set up for Bahrain, we have used the time to test well IMO and will have a lot of data to go through.

[PURE PASSION]

According to this , it doesn't look good !!!!!

#AMuS Mercedes engineers claim to have noticed that the Aston Martin has similar good qualities in the corners as the Red Bull.

Mercedes expects a very strong Aston Martin.

Toto: "According to our calculations, the Aston Martin could end up in second place."

#AMuS Adjusting factors such as fuel levels, engine mode and asphalt temperature, the Red Bull is estimated to be two to four tenths faster than Ferrari & six tenths faster than Mercedes.

In the longrun, the gap is said to be even bigger.

BUT this is estimations from what we/they saw on track these 3 days. nobody except the team itself knows the exact parameters in witch our car run .
Fred sound quite optimistic on his after test interview. So i wonder is he what to start his Ferrari campaign with a foul?? If this was the case and we are actually this bad , he could downplay our chances more so since this isnt "his" car but Binottos !!!

[stasera]

Fred Vasseur is not alarmed by the pace of Red Bull.

He said that Ferrari’s focus in the test was not on times, but instead on set-up evaluation.

While some of Ferrari’s long runs were poor, Vasseur said it was due to trying different setups, some of which were incorrect.

[stasera]

“We have scanned a number of items on the car and ticked many of the boxes of our programme, without worrying about lap times or what the others have been doing, simply focusing on ourselves,”

“The main target was getting as much mileage as possible and we did that.


“When we managed to put everything together, the performance was there, but we are clearly still in the process of getting to know the car so it’s too early to say anything.”

“The mood in the team is perfect and we are in a good shape to start this long season.”

[tifosi1993]

According to this , it doesn't look good !!!!!

#AMuS Mercedes engineers claim to have noticed that the Aston Martin has similar good qualities in the corners as the Red Bull.

Mercedes expects a very strong Aston Martin.

Toto: "According to our calculations, the Aston Martin could end up in second place."

#AMuS Adjusting factors such as fuel levels, engine mode and asphalt temperature, the Red Bull is estimated to be two to four tenths faster than Ferrari & six tenths faster than Mercedes.

In the longrun, the gap is said to be even bigger.

BUT this is estimations from what we/they saw on track these 3 days. nobody except the team itself knows the exact parameters in witch our car run .
Fred sound quite optimistic on his after test interview. So i wonder is he what to start his Ferrari campaign with a foul?? If this was the case and we are actually this bad , he could downplay our chances more so since this isnt "his" car but Binottos !!!

Articles like this always pop up after the conclusion of pre season testing, and they are pretty much always wrong. Example: in 2019 we were the fastest, in 2021 we were slower than Alfa Romeo and so on and forth. Even last year, people thought Red Bull would dominate Bahrain.

According to Cardile, the SF23 has more downforce than the F1-75. According to the team, the correlation between the simulation and real world track data is quite good.

We need to wait a little longer. March 04 is the date when this beast will finally get unleashed.

[nani_s23]

Vasseur: "We have developments planned until the final phase of the season, but I expect that we will all have something already in Jeddah or Melbourne, I don't think it's a secret."

[stasera]

[Cavallino]

don't get down. on the first day they were saying the car was still purposing!!! but it's not, the ride is good
they said we lost our cornering speed compared to RB, but we were running mainly low downforce, so that explains that
and Leclerc had the fastest time! if it was any other team, like Merc, Sky wouldn't be able to stop talking about it

[Toothlessrage*]

You know what really upsets me about all of this?

From 2009 - 2013, it was primarily Newey who was the deciding factor that gave RBR their success. It's turning out to be the same way with this current rule-set and will seemingly continue with the next era.

Don't get me wrong, Verstappen is a great talent. But, he isn't the greatest by any means - I'd rate him above Hakkinen, but not more than that. Look at the 2022 Bahrain GP (https://youtu.be/HRBdcpDDc1g), Leclerc showed he has what it takes to win the championship for fecks sake!

What's more - we were the second-best team from 2010 to 2013 and the same in 2022.

Why can't we catch a *ucking break!??? WTH!

[Toothlessrage*]

You know what really upsets me about all of this?

From 2009 - 2013, it was primarily Newey who was the deciding factor that gave RBR their success. It's turning out to be the same way with this current rule-set and will seemingly continue with the next era.

Don't get me wrong, Verstappen is a great talent. But, he isn't the greatest by any means - I'd rate him above Hakkinen, but not more than that. Look at the 2022 Bahrain GP (https://youtu.be/HRBdcpDDc1g), Leclerc showed he has what it takes to win the championship for fecks sake!

What's more - we were the second-best team from 2010 to 2013 and the same in 2022.

Why can't we catch a *ucking break!??? WTH!

I'm sorry if it seems I am giving up on this year - I'm not!

I need to vent.

[scudieros]

From what I understand they did most of the performance running in the simulator, then they did the corralation on track, so that proves that the numbers inthe sim are correct. Most of what gave the performance from last year is still on the car. What they really had trouble with was tyre managementwith low downforce setup, so that's what they were testing. Obviously that setup is wrong for this track which is super abbrasive, so joined with the low downforce wing it chewed the tyres more than it should otherwise? Hence we didn't see the best times, and when we tried the high downforce wing, it broke, so the results are not good for this track, but this isn't the setup for this track, they already know the setup for this track and can fine tune it on FP1 and 2 on race weekend. Just my 2 cents.

[PURE PASSION]

According to what a source confirmed to
@formu1a__uno
Ferrari were running at a higher ride height during testing to limit bouncing. Starting from free practice, Ferrari might go with a more aggressive approach here again [lower the ride height].
The SF-23 seems more complicated to take to the limit due to an aerodynamic limitation on the front end. The car suffered from understeer particularly with less grip due to the higher track temperatures. Something unexpected that put Leclerc in more difficulty than Sainz.
Ferrari is working to extract the full potential of the SF-23, by also trying to correct this front end limitation, which seems to be the real problem.

[stasera]

Gazzetta claims that Ferrari had a lot of fuel in every session during testing:

They say that even the short runs were carried out with a constant fuel load, with top-ups of 35/40 kg. In none of the tests would Ferrari have dropped below 20 kg at the end of the scheduled laps.

Gazzetta claims that Ferrari used the actual fuel amount needed for a race distance in Bahrain during their longruns. They also write that Red Bull‘s individual stints were rather short in comparison, hence the tyre deg being a lot better.


https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/27...-benzina.shtml

some good news

[stasera]

According to the rear wing Ferrari used, Ferrari's braking looks very good.



According to Ferrari's rear wing, downforce is said to be quite good.
As the vehicle data from the test days are reflected, it is understood that Ferrari is actually much better than it seems.
The difference between Redbull and Ferrari is not like in the tests. settings and development will be decisive for these both teams

[stasera]

According to the rear wing Ferrari used, Ferrari's braking looks very good.



According to Ferrari's rear wing, downforce is said to be quite good.
As the vehicle data from the test days are reflected, it is understood that Ferrari is actually much better than it seems.
The difference between Redbull and Ferrari is not like in the tests. settings and development will be decisive for these both teams

[FerrariF60]

I'm sorry if it seems I am giving up on this year - I'm not!

I need to vent.

totally understandable mate....i'm with you on this
hopefully we'll catch a break soon...and by that i mean THIS YEAR

[Smintlemon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fp6Q065X...png&name=large

Leclerc was faster then Perezin the second Stint with harder Tires