2023 Bahrain Grand Prix - Race Thread

[wisepie]

Desperation setting in already after today's embarrassing lack of pace and Charles retiring, at no point did Ferrari have an answer for RB or AM. Tyre deg still suspect too, and typically it was Charles who had the only engine-related retirement from a Ferrari PU, although details aren't yet revealed. Not a promising start so maybe we should adjust our expectations and pray that we have something useful coming along to make us more competitive. Otherwise Charles will jump ship and so may I after too many years of frustration and anger.

[stasera]

Because we're already a bigger team and have much more money than those teams though ?
No one in the top 3 teams (+ AM now) wants to move to us

honestly, i would prefer living in italy rather than england. i think there must be some people who prefer Italy.

[jgonzalesm6]

you can simulate it in your brain,
your car is horrible in the corners,
your car is terrible in tyre management. we run with the hards almost the same laps as perez runs with the softs. and his tires performed pretty much good performance. we degraded the hard tyres more than they did the soft tyres.

FA got hit by his teammate, lost 2 positions, and he gained 2 positions by fighting in the race, he overtook 2 mercs, while sainz was alone and he fought against no one, still, alonso catched him and overtook him almost easily. i dont want to criticize sainz while not knowing what he had to deal with in that horrible car. but i can only criticise him why is there such a long time gap with leclerc?

but at the end, when you simulate a race in your brain, AM automaticly annihilate us, like alonso did tonight.

I have to have evidence instead of "simulating it in my brain."

Bit ignorant to suggest that, we are ahead of 95% of the teams based in the UK.....

"The cream rises to the top" and alot of GREAT AND AWESOME talent moves within the best teams based in the UK.

[jgonzalesm6]

Maybe they need to split engine and aero, aero in GB and engine in Italy

I have suggested that very same ideology here on this forum to move the F1 department to the U.K. and I get that it has been tried before and it didn't work. (Barnard with the GTO).

(all I do is throw my hands up in the air............)

[Greig]

I have suggested that very same ideology here on this forum to move the F1 department to the U.K. and I get that it has been tried before and it didn't work. (Barnard with the GTO).

(all I do is throw my hands up in the air............)

Ferrari is Italian, and will always be Italian they are not going to move to the UK.

[jgonzalesm6]

honestly, i would prefer living in italy rather than england. i think there must be some people who prefer Italy.

You would:

1) Have to learn a new language(Italian) outside of the Ferrari plant.

2) Italy itself has an "unstable" economy.

3) If you have a wife and kids, they need to learn Italian and enroll those kids in an English speaking school.

It's quite daunting living there BUT it's an AWESOME country to visit.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari is Italian, and will always be Italian they are not going to move to the UK.

oh yeah.....I forgot about that one as well.....the history and lineage is so thick that it would be asinine to move the F1 department to the UK to at least win in F1.

[stasera]

I have to have evidence instead of "simulating it in my brain."




"The cream rises to the top" and alot of GREAT AND AWESOME talent moves within the best teams based in the UK.

i said you enough evidences, you will simulate it according to these evidences

Evidences:

your car is horrible in the corners,
your car is terrible in tyre management. we run with the hards almost the same laps as perez runs with the softs. and his tires performed pretty much good performance. we degraded the hard tyres more than they did the soft tyres.

FA got hit by his teammate, lost 2 positions, and he gained 2 positions by fighting in the race, he overtook 2 mercs, while sainz was alone and he fought against no one, still, alonso catched him and overtook him almost easily. i dont want to criticize sainz while not knowing what he had to deal with in that horrible car. but i can only criticise him why is there such a long time gap with leclerc?

but at the end, when you simulate a race in your brain, AM automatically annihilates us, like alonso did tonight.


I told you how Fernando caught up with Sainz. That's good enough evidence for you to understand that we're not the second faster car.

[Greig]

Alonso v Sainz, is not quite the same as Alonso v Leclerc

Did Stroll beat Sainz as an example?

[stasera]

Alonso v Sainz, is not quite the same as Alonso v Leclerc

Did Stroll beat Sainz as an example?

it applies to a standard teams e.g. Max-Perez vs Alonso-Stroll
we are different than any other teams. our car has a lot of problems. if we have max verstappen vs michael schumacher prime still alonso would have catched us.
we have problems in the car, not the drivers, leclerc cant make this truck faster than AM.

its something like max getting the title with Williams. it's not possible. Leclerc fought against Verstappen last year, he got the pole and first place, sainz got a place on the podium. but today, we have nothing. because we drove a truck

as toto said: AM is the second fastest car.

[jgonzalesm6]

i said you enough evidences, you will simulate it according to these evidences

Evidences:

your car is horrible in the corners,
your car is terrible in tyre management. we run with the hards almost the same laps as perez runs with the softs. and his tires performed pretty much good performance. we degraded the hard tyres more than they did the soft tyres.

FA got hit by his teammate, lost 2 positions, and he gained 2 positions by fighting in the race, he overtook 2 mercs, while sainz was alone and he fought against no one, still, alonso catched him and overtook him almost easily. i dont want to criticize sainz while not knowing what he had to deal with in that horrible car. but i can only criticise him why is there such a long time gap with leclerc?

but at the end, when you simulate a race in your brain, AM automatically annihilates us, like alonso did tonight.


I told you how Fernando caught up with Sainz. That's good enough evidence for you to understand that we're not the second faster car.

No mate. We're talking about 2 great drivers, one is old, and 2 great cars. I need to see it on the track and I haven't already. Both were unlucky today.

[JPZ]

I have suggested that very same ideology here on this forum to move the F1 department to the U.K. and I get that it has been tried before and it didn't work. (Barnard with the GTO).

(all I do is throw my hands up in the air............)

From late 80's to mid 1997 Ferrari had a technical office in the UK.

[Greig]

it applies to a standard teams e.g. Max-Perez vs Alonso-Stroll
we are different than any other teams. our car has a lot of problems. if we have max verstappen vs michael schumacher prime still alonso would have catched us.
we have problems in the car, not the drivers, leclerc cant make this truck faster than AM.

its something like max getting the title with Williams. it's not possible. Leclerc fought against Verstappen last year, he got the pole and first place, sainz got a place on the podium. but today, we have nothing. because we drove a truck

as toto said: AM is the second fastest car.

Sainz is not our benchmark.

[jgonzalesm6]

From late 80's to mid 1997 Ferrari had a technical office in the UK.

yep, but the times have changed along with technology. RedBull didn't make or have an engine to compete with in 2014 when this turbo hybrid formula started. Now, in 2023, they have their own PowerTrain department in 9 years time.

Honda is coming back in 2026 and will be supplying other F1 teams.....One of those teams is possibly Mclaren.

[JacKy]

Sources says one of the replacement part caused to Leclerc’s DNF.

Hopefully no damage on engine.

[stasera]

Sainz is not our benchmark.

but the car sainz drive is

how alonso flew and move away from sainz then? how alonso catched up mercs and ferrari? also overtook them and also moved away from them. there is a kinda big gap here you don't want to see.

overtaking is not the case here, how alonso can catch tons of cars including mercs and ferrari, eventually overtaking them even on it moving away from ferrari. we couldn't even fight back against him.


what i see is i dont consider RB as a rival
then AM
3> Ferrari
4> Mercs but there is not much gap between us


these are what i see, but i dont force anyone to believe it. because i dont want to believe myself too. i want to be wrong at the end.

[Greig]

but the car sainz drive is

how alonso flew and move away from sainz then? how alonso catched up mercs and ferrari? also overtook them and also moved away from them. there is a kinda big gap here you don't want to see.

overtaking is not the case here, how alonso can catch tons of cars including mercs and ferrari, eventually overtaking them even on it moving away from ferrari. we couldn't even fight back against him.


what i see is i dont consider RB as a rival
then AM
3> Ferrari
4> Mercs but there is not much gap between us


these are what i see, but i dont force anyone to believe it. because i dont want to believe myself too. i want to be wrong at the end.

So Sainz is as fast and as good as Charles now?

Sainz is not our benchmark.

[F2008]

Disappointing start to the season. No result and even Perez seemed out of reach.
Happy for Alonso though.

[jgonzalesm6]

but the car sainz drive is

how alonso flew and move away from sainz then? how alonso catched up mercs and ferrari? also overtook them and also moved away from them. there is a kinda big gap here you don't want to see.

overtaking is not the case here, how alonso can catch tons of cars including mercs and ferrari, eventually overtaking them even on it moving away from ferrari. we couldn't even fight back against him.


what i see is i dont consider RB as a rival
then AM
3> Ferrari
4> Mercs but there is not much gap between us


these are what i see, but i dont force anyone to believe it. because i dont want to believe myself too. i want to be wrong at the end.

Did you see the gap Leclerc put on Sainz in the opening of the first laps?

[JacKy]

I’ve been saying that Sainz is not even close to Charles since 2021.

He has been only able to beat Charles when there were no hopes left for winning races or championship.

So he looks like level of Leclerc when Leclerc lost his motivation.

I’d bring Norris for next year without a doubt So do Norris suffer even more with better but unreliable car.

[brucewayne]

I’ve been saying that Sainz is not even close to Charles since 2021.

He has been only able to beat Charles when there were no hopes left for winning races or championship.

So he looks like level of Leclerc when Leclerc lost his motivation.

I’d bring Norris for next year without a doubt So do Norris suffer even more with better but unreliable car.

Sainz is a No.2 driver, quite simple. We could get a Max/Charles, but this would not change the fact that our pace sucks. P3 was the maximum today.

[stasera]

Did you see the gap Leclerc put on Sainz in the opening of the first laps?

So Sainz is as fast and as good as Charles now?

Sainz is not our benchmark.

im not comparing leclerc vs sainz.

sainz should have been ahead of AM it would be a success if they are your rival, like Perez was ahead of Leclerc.

what i meant is Perez and Verstappen beat both of us, the benchmark of RB is not Perez, but he overtook us. because RB is definitely faster than us.

but Sainz couldnt keep alonso behind himself. it means ferrari isn't definitively faster than AM, even might be slower than AM. this is what im trying to explain.
What I want to say in summary:> we are closer to AM more than RB

[patrese86]

According to Fred Vasseur today the high deg was a setup issue. I really don't like these words because it implies there isn't a fundamental issue and it's more track specific/setup. We tested here, we ran lots of high fuel long runs as well, it's practically impossible to setup here in the wrong way given how well we know Bahrain.

Apparently the new front wing will give us better flying lap pace, what good is that if it doesn't help in the race???

[stasera]

Red Bull were aware of Ferrari's one lap strength, while in the race they believe Alonso will be most competitive.

Helmut Marko: "In long runs Ferrari simply has too much tire wear. The biggest opponent in the race will most likely be Alonso."


he says what i want to tell here

[brucewayne]

According to Fred Vasseur today the high deg was a setup issue. I really don't like these words because it implies there isn't a fundamental issue and it's more track specific/setup. We tested here, we ran lots of high fuel long runs as well, it's practically impossible to setup here in the wrong way given how well we know Bahrain.

Apparently the new front wing will give us better flying lap pace, what good is that if it doesn't help in the race???

I think they wanted to run the new rear wing, only to see that it moved from left to right. Too many crucial mistakes, we always seem to find a way to start on the back foot.

[brucewayne]

It seems the ECU failed, so we are changing the ECU before the race and it still fails? Valuable points which we won’t get back.

[FerrariF60]

It seems the ECU failed, so we are changing the ECU before the race and it still fails? Valuable points which we won’t get back.

i thought it was the energy store (ES) and the control electronics (CE) that they changed prior to the race

regardless if it was the same part that they replaced that failed again.

[brucewayne]

i thought it was the energy store (ES) and the control electronics (CE) that they changed prior to the race

regardless if it was the same part that they replaced that failed again.

Ok, so the PU is still usable, this would at least be good news.

[FerrariF60]

Ok, so the PU is still usable, this would at least be good news.

nobody knows if still good or what the exact issue really is....sure they'll find out when investigating in maranello

[stasera]

George Russell: “Red Bull have got this championship sewn up and I don't think anybody will be fighting with them this year,” the 25 year-old said after taking seventh place, two behind teammate Lewis Hamilton. “They should win every single race this season. With the performance they have got I don't see anyone challenging them.45 mins ago