2023 Spanish Grand Prix - Race Thread

[Kyss4k]

The only argument made for keeping the team in Italian is history and tradition. Sorry, history and tradition don’t win championships. Would anyone here care if the Ferrari F1 cad was built in Milton Keys if they were dominating both championships? Honestly? Would you stop being a fan because the car isn’t built in Italy? Would you rather an Italian made Ferrari F1 car come in 11th of a English made Ferrari F1 car come in 1st?

I don't see an issue. I am from Czech Republic... Maybe you know the car brand named Škoda. During the occupation and reign of communists Škoda was destroyed to the state, where it became a laughing stock for the entire world. It couldn't have been rebuilt in Czech republic by it's own powers and resources, so the deal was struck with Volkswagen. Basically Škoda belongs to them, it's no longer a Czech company, yet our Czechs are still proud of it, call it ours and only thanks to that deal it remains relevant and actually is succesfull. So yeah... I and probably no one would have a problem if the factory of Scuderia Ferrari would be based in Great Britain if it would mean our team would be succesfull again.

[Aviamata]

I don't see an issue. I am from Czech Republic... Maybe you know the car brand named Škoda. During the occupation and reign of communists Škoda was destroyed to the state, where it became a laughing stock for the entire world. It couldn't have been rebuilt in Czech republic by it's own powers and resources, so the deal was struck with Volkswagen. Basically Škoda belongs to them, it's no longer a Czech company, yet our Czechs are still proud of it, call it ours and only thanks to that deal it remains relevant and actually is succesfull. So yeah... I and probably no one would have a problem if the factory of Scuderia Ferrari would be based in Great Britain if it would mean our team would be succesfull again.

Stupid FIAT policy

[tifosi1993]

I see this as a step forward.. What's your take?

In terms of degradation, it's a step forward. But the pace was lacking. Although Charles pitted early, on lap 17. In that sense, his pace wasn't that bad.

[WS6TransAm01]

I don't see an issue. I am from Czech Republic... Maybe you know the car brand named Škoda. During the occupation and reign of communists Škoda was destroyed to the state, where it became a laughing stock for the entire world. It couldn't have been rebuilt in Czech republic by it's own powers and resources, so the deal was struck with Volkswagen. Basically Škoda belongs to them, it's no longer a Czech company, yet our Czechs are still proud of it, call it ours and only thanks to that deal it remains relevant and actually is succesfull. So yeah... I and probably no one would have a problem if the factory of Scuderia Ferrari would be based in Great Britain if it would mean our team would be succesfull again.

That’s what I mean when I say Ferrari doesn’t hate to lose. They are okay with losing it would seem because they have failed to arrest the root cause of the problem for 15 years. We all blame the TP, me included, but those of us who did were, in part, wrong. As I said, failure is engrained in the system, there is no punishment for failure.

Would a pilot keep his job if he crashed the plane? Would your neighborhood auto mechanic maintain his business if he kept blowing up peoples’ cars? We reject failure in all aspects of our lives, but Ferrari seems to embrace it. Lavish in it. At the least they refuse to punish it.

[da_one]

It seems Ferrari are only competitive when exploiting gray areas and using trick parts such that when the other teams ask for FIA intervention and they get caught out, it takes them years to recover. It happened in 2019 and is happening again. What is bleak though is that by the time they figure it out, their best driver would probably be driving for Mercedes.

[wisepie]

It seems to me that the SF23 upgrades are a bodge-up and no-one seems to know what to do about the suspension, back or front, to cope with the tyre variations. The car is unpredictable whatever the compound/fuel load so the drivers can't really push. Another race to forget and so so sorry for Charles once again having to come away with zero points, not that it matters this season, but he must be wondering whether it's worth the hassle and embarrassment on track.

[Cheeseman]

I'm still wondering about Carlos in the first stint of race. He said the tyres were good and he had extra pace in hand if needed. Within 2 or 3 laps Hamilton was all over him and Carlos had nothing extra.
Ferrari as a team are under performing. The team and drivers need to have a word with themselves. The team hasn't delivered a competitive car and the upgrades haven't been significant. Neither driver is extracting the maximum from the package we have. Le Clerc has too many crashes that puts him out of position in the race. Carlos is probably the slowest out of the top 3 or 4 teams's drivers and never fills me with any confidence of pulling off a good result. The great drivers like Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and probably Max, could hussle an under performing car along and get good results. That talent is rare and I don't think we have that in either driver.

[nani_s23]

Even after upgrades issue remains same

1. Tyres not working in proper window when on high fuel & so called Italian engineers/aero head etc couldn’t resolve the issue even after 1 year.
2. It clear that correlation issues between on track & simulation.
3. Ferrari management are not serious about F1 sport. Which makes me worry for the future. Do we become like Williams? Mclaren? I think it’s better to leave F1 rather than competing for midfield or last in the standings. I really can’t imagine ferrari in that situation.

[nani_s23]

I'm still wondering about Carlos in the first stint of race. He said the tyres were good and he had extra pace in hand if needed. Within 2 or 3 laps Hamilton was all over him and Carlos had nothing extra.
Ferrari as a team are under performing. The team and drivers need to have a word with themselves. The team hasn't delivered a competitive car and the upgrades haven't been significant. Neither driver is extracting the maximum from the package we have. Le Clerc has too many crashes that puts him out of position in the race. Carlos is probably the slowest out of the top 3 or 4 teams's drivers and never fills me with any confidence of pulling off a good result. The great drivers like Schumacher, Alonso, Hamilton and probably Max, could hussle an under performing car along and get good results. That talent is rare and I don't think we have that in either drivers.

How many times max won with inferior car?
How many times max crashed?
Does anytime Leclerc had any championship winning car underneath?
I hope you are aware of 2020 & 2021 ferrari car, leclerc put those doggy cars in a strong position during quali. Beyond the expectations.
He has raw talent, the only challenger who can take up max wheel to wheel on the current grid given a strong car. It was proved couple of times last year.

[SilverSpeed]

Bring back the F1-75.

[Cheeseman]

How many times max won with inferior car?
How many times max crashed?
Does anytime Leclerc had any championship winning car underneath?
I hope you are aware of 2020 & 2021 ferrari car, leclerc put those doggy cars in a strong position during quali. Beyond the expectations.
He has raw talent, the only challenger who can take up max wheel to wheel on the current grid given a strong car. It was proved couple of times last year.

Max had the slower car in 2021 and won.. His raw speed and talent earned him his promotion from.Torro Rosso to Red Bull. 2020 and 2021is gone, Le Clerc is not doing the business right now. That's why he is 16 points behind Carlos in the championship. The Ferrari car is not great but the drivers are not scoring the maximum points that is capable of

[tifosi1993]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that they are not listening to feedbacks the drivers are giving. Both of them kept on complaining about tyre window and how the car behaves differently with the same compound during different race stints. But then Fred is coming up with his ridiculous statement like the car being good in quali means there is "performance" in this car and they need to unlock it.

The problem is mechanical, not aero. The suspension dictates how the car is going to behave over the bumps and how the tyres would connect with the track surface. Mercedes brought a new front suspension and look how it transformed their race pace.
Downwash or inwash sidepods are not the key to unlocking performance. It's the suspension and the floor.

That's why I was upset when they only brought aero upgrades. The problem is mechanical yet the kept on focussing on the aero. They need to redesign the suspension and bring it on track as soon as possible.

[Cheeseman]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that they are not listening to feedbacks the drivers are giving. Both of them kept on complaining about tyre window and how the car behaves differently with the same compound during different race stints. But then Fred is coming up with his ridiculous statement like the car being good in quali means there is "performance" in this car and they need to unlock it.

The problem is mechanical, not aero. The suspension dictates how the car is going to behave over the bumps and how the tyres would connect with the track surface. Mercedes brought a new front suspension and look how it transformed their race pace.
Downwash or inwash sidepods are not the key to unlocking performance. It's the suspension and the floor.

That's why I was upset when they only brought aero upgrades. The problem is mechanical yet the kept on focussing on the aero. They need to redesign the suspension and bring it on track as soon as possible.

Yeah we have nothing to lose at this point. We are out of the championship fight. Might as well try a different direction, it seemed to have paid off the Mercs

[RossTheBoss]

I don't see an issue. I am from Czech Republic... Maybe you know the car brand named Škoda. During the occupation and reign of communists Škoda was destroyed to the state, where it became a laughing stock for the entire world. It couldn't have been rebuilt in Czech republic by it's own powers and resources, so the deal was struck with Volkswagen. Basically Škoda belongs to them, it's no longer a Czech company, yet our Czechs are still proud of it, call it ours and only thanks to that deal it remains relevant and actually is succesfull. So yeah... I and probably no one would have a problem if the factory of Scuderia Ferrari would be based in Great Britain if it would mean our team would be succesfull again.

Ferrari did this very thing in the late 80's with John Barnard. They opened and paid for a design and research office in England. After eight years of miserable failure, it was closed when Todt took over.

The problem is not being located in the UK. Most of the dream team weren't even English nationals outside of Brawn. The issue is that the technical team are not at the track and living and breathing their work like Brawn and Byrne did. You'd constantly see those two at the race track, just as Newey is today. They took notes, they watched their cars in person, and had an up close and personal relationship with Schumacher.

The technical department is out of touch with the race track. They are passive and want to plug in the hours at the factory, then go home.

[Redfive]

I honestly cannot believe this is the team that blew everyone away in the early 2000's. I guess they need a 'Michael Schumacher' to focus the team and drive them forward.
Charles is a good driver but he's not that, but then who is?

[RossTheBoss]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that they are not listening to feedbacks the drivers are giving. Both of them kept on complaining about tyre window and how the car behaves differently with the same compound during different race stints. But then Fred is coming up with his ridiculous statement like the car being good in quali means there is "performance" in this car and they need to unlock it.

The problem is mechanical, not aero. The suspension dictates how the car is going to behave over the bumps and how the tyres would connect with the track surface. Mercedes brought a new front suspension and look how it transformed their race pace.
Downwash or inwash sidepods are not the key to unlocking performance. It's the suspension and the floor.

That's why I was upset when they only brought aero upgrades. The problem is mechanical yet the kept on focussing on the aero. They need to redesign the suspension and bring it on track as soon as possible.

That's the thing. You've got an aero department that's obsessed with beating Red Bull's straight away speed, rather than focusing on the issues relating to car balance. They don't listen to the drivers, and think they know better.

[tifosi1993]

Max had the slower car in 2021 and won.. His raw speed and talent earned him his promotion from.Torro Rosso to Red Bull. 2020 and 2021is gone, Le Clerc is not doing the business right now. That's why he is 16 points behind Carlos in the championship. The Ferrari car is not great but the drivers are not scoring the maximum points that is capable of

So you are blaming Leclerc for his DNF in Bahrain, which was because of Ferrari's wrong PU assembly, which forced him to take a penalty in Saudi where he qualified P2. Funny. Then there is Monaco and yesterday's qualifying. Do the math and you'd know how many points he has lost. Btw, Sainz has finished every race this year but still without a podium

Charles has lost more wins thanks to Ferrari's strategy. We saw what he can do when the car is right. His victory in last year's Australia is one of the most dominant Ferrari win since the Schumacher era. Says a lot about his talent when drivers like Alonso or Vettel couldn't match it.

Red Bull is a level above Ferrari. So even when they design "poor" cars, those are still good and much better than anything Ferrari can produce. The 2021 RB was one of the best chassis on the grid, if not the best, and by no means it was a lemon like the 2020 or 2021 Ferrari car.

[Cheeseman]

So you are blaming Leclerc for his DNF in Bahrain, which was because of Ferrari's wrong PU assembly, which forced him to take a penalty in Saudi where he qualified P2. Funny. Then there is Monaco and yesterday's qualifying. Do the math and you'd know how many points he has lost. Btw, Sainz has finished every race this year but still without a podium

Charles has lost more wins thanks to Ferrari's strategy. We saw what he can do when the car is right. His victory in last year's Australia is one of the most dominant Ferrari win since the Schumacher era. Says a lot about his talent when drivers like Alonso or Vettel couldn't match it.

Red Bull is a level above Ferrari. So even when they design "poor" cars, those are still good and much better than anything Ferrari can produce. The 2021 RB was one of the best chassis on the grid, if not the best, and by no means it was a lemon like the 2020 or 2021 Ferrari car.

I'm blaming the whole team. The team is to blame for Bahrain. Charles to blame for Miami. I'm not laying the blame directly at anyone's door. Neither driver, nor theam are performing to their best. That's it lol

[PURE PASSION]

The more I think about it, the more it seems that they are not listening to feedbacks the drivers are giving. Both of them kept on complaining about tyre window and how the car behaves differently with the same compound during different race stints. But then Fred is coming up with his ridiculous statement like the car being good in quali means there is "performance" in this car and they need to unlock it.

The problem is mechanical, not aero. The suspension dictates how the car is going to behave over the bumps and how the tyres would connect with the track surface. Mercedes brought a new front suspension and look how it transformed their race pace.
Downwash or inwash sidepods are not the key to unlocking performance. It's the suspension and the floor.

That's why I was upset when they only brought aero upgrades. The problem is mechanical yet the kept on focussing on the aero. They need to redesign the suspension and bring it on track as soon as possible.

its like we literally have only 3d(not even 2nd)-4th tier endineers-mechanicks that have NO clue about 1st class competitive racing !!! Now i truly believe that thats why I'm SO frustrated.They have proved up race after race that they have NO idea about the car!!!
And the cheery on the top os that Fred V prove himself that he is no different then Binotto. In a terrible race (pace) he comes out and say that we have performance. Merc (im not even talking about RB) humiliate us literaly and he says we are ok performance wise ??!! COmpare to who ?? Alpines ?? SO he is happy to finish 4th in front of Alpines ??!!!! Pathetic !!!! Thanks Ferrari for destroynig our soul !!!!!!

[PURE PASSION]

I honestly cannot believe this is the team that blew everyone away in the early 2000's. I guess they need a 'Michael Schumacher' to focus the team and drive them forward.
Charles is a good driver but he's not that, but then who is?

Completely wrong statement
This is NOT the team that took all that champioships with MSch.
And thay also had in track testing those days !!!
Now its completely different and the engineers are responsible for 98% of the car. The drivers has so little to do with it. Only on set up !!!

[tifosi1993]

I'm blaming the whole team. The team is to blame for Bahrain. Charles to blame for Miami. I'm not laying the blame directly at anyone's door. Neither driver, nor theam are performing to their best. That's it lol

That's like blaming the rider when the horse is clearly sick and can't run fast. Charles is doing his job by putting the car on the front row. But it's not his fault if his car transforms into a completely different animal during the race and when his race engineer screws up the strategy. It's not his fault when he's forced to take a 10 place grid drop at the 2nd race.

Nor it was his fault in Baku, Monaco, Canada, GB and Hungary. If he had a team like the RB, he would've won those races. And if Max has a team like the current Ferrari, he wouldn't be winning race after race. That's a simple reality. The problem is Ferrari, not the drivers.

[Cheeseman]

That's like blaming the rider when the horse is clearly sick and can't run fast. Charles is doing his job by putting the car on the front row. But it's not his fault if his car transforms into a completely different animal during the race and when his race engineer screws up the strategy. It's not his fault when he's forced to take a 10 place grid drop at the 2nd race.

Nor it was his fault in Baku, Monaco, Canada, GB and Hungary. If he had a team like the RB, he would've won those races. And if Max has a team like the current Ferrari, he wouldn't be winning race after race. That's a simple reality. The problem is Ferrari, not the drivers.

bless

[tifosi1993]

That's the thing. You've got an aero department that's obsessed with beating Red Bull's straight away speed, rather than focusing on the issues relating to car balance. They don't listen to the drivers, and think they know better.

If they are really obsessed with RB, then they should be doing what RB did last year. Bringing lightweight parts and updating the suspension, which they did four times last year.

I have yet to see any suspension upgrades from Ferrari, last year included.

[tifosi1993]

bless

More cheese for your brain.

[tifosi1993]

Fred Vasseur, Team Principal



"We made a step forward this weekend in terms of our qualifying pace, with Carlos on the front row after the best Saturday of his season so far. However it is clear that, in terms of race pace, Red Bull and Mercedes are quicker than us. As for the upgrades, I think we have made a step forward overall if you compare this weekend with Miami. Clearly, we know it is still not enough. Our problem is not our outright performance, it is our lack of consistency. Charles’ first set of Hards was a sort of a nightmare but then on his last set of the same compound he was happy with the balance: we must assess this inconsistency. Now we will focus completely on this issue before Canada. For sure we will continue to develop the car but this is a matter of improving by tenths of a second, whereas in the race we are looking for seconds at the moment. There is something in the car that we must unlock if we want to move forward."

I really don't get what he's saying. Qualifying hasn't been the main problem this year. Yet he's still making arbitrary comments.

Stop thinking about "unlocking" and start bringing new mechanical parts. Aero is not the problem. FFS.

[Cheeseman]

More cheese for your brain.

Well done son. Your insults are about as mediocre as your analogies. You are not saying much, just making noise. Spurs fan by chance? They suffer with that sort of denial

[tifosi1993]

Well done son. Your insults are about as mediocre as your analogies. You are not saying much, just making noise. Spurs fan by chance? They suffer with that sort of denial

Not your son, Cheese. You seem to process information as slow as the car in your avatar. Spurs fan? LOL.

It's Leclerc, not Le Clerc. Stop insulting our driver.

[Alonsomaniac]

Leclerc leaving or not won't change anything.

Not to the car no. But where will we find another topdriver willing to step in a car like this?

[Tifoso Svedese]

Geniuses at work still can't figure out the suspension geometry

Ferrari is a flat-out embarassment at the moment. At least during the Alonso years the team was professional and knew how to make tyres last, although the car was slow.

[Kyss4k]

I really don't get what he's saying. Qualifying hasn't been the main problem this year. Yet he's still making arbitrary comments.

Stop thinking about "unlocking" and start bringing new mechanical parts. Aero is not the problem. FFS.

Yeah... we improved in quali, by being half a second from pole when Charles has almost taken pole couple of times before... great progress. Can it be, that our team principals can't say a bad word about Ferrari? Toto never had a problem saying that the car suck.