2023 Spanish Grand Prix - Race Thread

**tifosi1993** · 4th June 2023, 15:22

We also saw one of the text book example of Ferrari's race operation today. Charles wanted softs for his last stint, he already had 2 extra fresh rubbers. But the team overruled him.

**tifosi1993** · 4th June 2023, 15:24

Originally Posted by PURE PASSION

If you are happy to compete for 5th place and lower ,then yes the pace was there !!! For everything else it was pathetic !!! Ham destroyed Sainz. in 2/3 of race distance he passed him and pull away 20s . Rus also passed him from 12th place. And this is Merc ,who supposedly where slower then us. And they didnt just pass us on pace ,they humiliate us . And you are happy ???!!!!

Did I say I was happy? You must be hearing things.

Go and post your thoughts on Ferrari's social media wall. Let me know if anything changes.

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th June 2023, 15:24

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

They clearly need to bring some outside talent. The current people are hit-and-miss, they may be able to build a fast car but don't know how to develop it and vice versa.

I still think Ferrari need to have their main Formula 1 base of operation outside of Italy and in the UK. They have the money and can attract the best technical minds of F1, by having their main F1 base in the UK.

(bolded area) I started a thread regarding this very issue.....unfortunately, it won't be a Ferrari F1 car anymore as building the F1 car in Maranello takes precedent over building a winning F1 car regardless of where it's built.

[smh][shoulder shrug]

**tifosi1993** · 4th June 2023, 15:27

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

(bolded area) I started a thread regarding this very issue.....unfortunately, it won't be a Ferrari F1 car anymore as building the F1 car in Maranello takes precedent over building a winning F1 car regardless of where it's built.

[smh][should shrug]

If that's really their mindset, which I think it is, then they deserve everything they are getting right now. Those days of another Schumacher coming and bringing his entire team with him are long gone and will never come back.

**dogchap** · 4th June 2023, 15:29

It's a dysfunctional team, this rotating chair approach is the real enemy and the higher ups don't care, the brand is selling share holders are happy.

They have to isolate this team from corporate interference then only something will happen otherwise it's gonna be drag...

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th June 2023, 15:29

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

If that's really their mindset, which I think it is, then they deserve everything they are getting right now. Those days of another Schumacher coming and bringing his entire with him, are long gone and will never come back.

Agreed.

**tifosi1993** · 4th June 2023, 15:32

Originally Posted by dogchap

It's a dysfunctional team, this rotating chair approach is the real enemy and the higher ups don't care, the brand is selling share holders are happy.

They have to isolate this team from corporate interference then only something will happen otherwise it's gonna be drag...

Not gonna happened because that's how Italy operates. All of their major companies and sporting teams are privately owned by a handful of families, and they like to pose their nose in everything, including cocaine.

Elkann and Vigna are unqualified to run a F1 team, and they are the ones who making all the decisions.

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th June 2023, 15:33

Vasseur said to Sky Germany that the car isn‘t consistent.
They have a different balance from one tyre to another, even when they are the same tyre type (in this case hard tyre to hard tyre). Pace on the mediums was also not there.

Charles: "We got so much work to do. It‘s very strange and difficult to understand because we go on the first set of hards and it feels so bad, no grip at all. Especially the fronts were really bad."

Charles: "And then you go on the second stint of hards and everything feels fine and you did exactly the same as before. Luckily we had much less problems compared to qualifying yesterday. Unfortunately we still have struggles with the tyres, especially in the first stint."

Is the situation getting worse before you establish what is wrong with the car and it gets better then?

Charles: "I hope not. And tbh looking at our weekend, I struggle to think that it can get worse than that. The target is to only get better from here."

**Aviamata** · 4th June 2023, 15:33

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

(bolded area) I started a thread regarding this very issue.....unfortunately, it won't be a Ferrari F1 car anymore as building the F1 car in Maranello takes precedent over building a winning F1 car regardless of where it's built.

[smh][shoulder shrug]

They can just move the test and design department to UK while the factory remained at Maranello . We're 4.0 now .

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th June 2023, 15:34

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Not gonna happened because that's how Italy operates. All of their major companies and sporting teams are privately owned by a handful of families, and they like to pose their nose in everything.

Elkann and Vigna are unqualified to run a F1 team, and they are the ones who making all the decisions.

Vasseur is a puppet in the grand scheme of things IMO.

**Aviamata** · 4th June 2023, 15:36

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Vasseur is a puppet in the grand scheme of things IMO.

Always has been . Any TD want to take things personally are replaced . They're replaced not because they think new TD will bring good result but because old TD didn't follow the command .

**tifosi1993** · 4th June 2023, 15:37

They need a Newey like figure to pull themselves out of this current situation. Cardile and co are hilariously out matched by the sheer technical depth of RB and Mercedes.

And by signing Rob Marshall, I believe Mclaren will make a big step with next year's car.

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th June 2023, 15:38

Originally Posted by Aviamata

They can just move the test and design department to UK while the factory remained at Maranello . We're 4.0 now .

They could and do via ZOOM or some kind of teleconferencing and various time zones(UK time vs Italian time). It is very possible.

Newey doesn't like the teleconferencing or CAD/CAM design. He still uses the old table design with that large L-shaped design tool. Look at Newey when he gets beside a Mercedes F1 car or Ferrari F1 car....he has a notebook and still rights in it....very old school.....but it freakin works.

**tifosi1993** · 4th June 2023, 15:39

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Vasseur is a puppet in the grand scheme of things IMO.

As I've said before, Ferrari runs like a Mafia family. Fred is just a capo. He can't do much when he has godfathers like Elkann and Vigna looking over his shoulders and assessing his every move.

**Aviamata** · 4th June 2023, 15:41

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

They could and do via ZOOM or some kind of teleconferencing and various time zones(UK time vs Italian time). It is very possible.

Newey doesn't like the teleconferencing or CAD/CAM design. He still uses the old table design with that large L-shaped design tool. Look at Newey when he gets beside a Mercedes F1 car or Ferrari F1 car....he has a notebook and still rights in it....very old school.....but it freakin works.

This is the different between the EDUCATED and the UNEDUCATED Engineer

**tifosi1993** · 4th June 2023, 15:48

This is Charles's middle stint on softs, had zero drop off.

**patrese86** · 4th June 2023, 15:49

The biggest worry is they are admitting they don't understand, that's basically the worst thing because you can't move forward if you don't understand what's wrong.

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th June 2023, 15:50

Originally Posted by Aviamata

This is the different between the EDUCATED and the UNEDUCATED Engineer

I think it has to do with wisdom and experience. Newey has designed some bad cars early on in his career but lately with regards to aero design from 2010 onwards till current, the cars from an aero perspective have been spot on and has been able to adapt to the formula aero changes.

Newey designed the FW14B thru FW19 cars.....all championship winning cars.

and

the Mclaren MP4/13 and MP4-14....also championship winning cars.

**jgonzalesm6** · 4th June 2023, 15:53

Charles Leclerc (Ferrari): "We have an incredible inconsistency. We put two sets of the same compound obtaining opposite behaviors. With the first Hard we were nowhere, with the second we did well . A problem we've had for a long time."

Charles Leclerc (Ferrari): "I won't talk about the improvements, I think there are still options to explore. It was a very difficult race today. It was very disappointing for me, even though I'm sure the other car also struggled with the tyres."

Charles Leclerc: "We no longer understand each other. The car does not work on the tyres. I put the hard tires on twice, in one stint it was not going at all and in the other it was better Yet I rode the same way but the differences were huge. Why?

**Greig** · 4th June 2023, 15:55

Originally Posted by Aviamata

We're completely anihilated this season . Please stop be so optimistic anymore Fred . Clearly he is not the second Jean Todt

Todt took many years to get Ferrari winning titles, Fred has had 6 months and a car that was already designed.

**PURE PASSION** · 4th June 2023, 16:03

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

They need a Newey like figure to pull themselves out of this current situation. Cardile and co are hilariously out matched by the sheer technical depth of RB and Mercedes.

And by signing Rob Marshall, I believe Mclaren will make a big step with next year's car.

that's what i keep saying!!!

**PURE PASSION** · 4th June 2023, 16:06

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

This is Charles's middle stint on softs, had zero drop off.

https://i.ibb.co/yVCtTMN/Screenshot-...-04-214603.jpg

ok no drop, but about pace?? If the others (and i mean if not RBR ,at least Merc and AM ,who right now they should be our direct competitors) where doing 1:19s,well thats not good !!! I saw that Ves best lap (fastest lap??) was 1:16:3 and Ham was 1:16:6.

**TTRSMAD** · 4th June 2023, 16:07

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Charles Leclerc (Ferrari): "We have an incredible inconsistency. We put two sets of the same compound obtaining opposite behaviors. With the first Hard we were nowhere, with the second we did well . A problem we've had for a long time."

Charles Leclerc (Ferrari): "I won't talk about the improvements, I think there are still options to explore. It was a very difficult race today. It was very disappointing for me, even though I'm sure the other car also struggled with the tyres."

Charles Leclerc: "We no longer understand each other. The car does not work on the tyres. I put the hard tires on twice, in one stint it was not going at all and in the other it was better Yet I rode the same way but the differences were huge. Why?

The first stint he had 100kg of fuel and the last stint he had a lot less fuel easy so now were is the new suspensions?

Mercedes modified there front and look how they performed. Put up or shut up. So frustrating.

**PURE PASSION** · 4th June 2023, 16:08

Originally Posted by Greig

Todt took many years to get Ferrari winning titles, Fred has had 6 months and a car that was already designed.

The bad thing is that we keeping saying this for 15 years now !!!!

**WS6TransAm01** · 4th June 2023, 16:11

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

(bolded area) I started a thread regarding this very issue.....unfortunately, it won't be a Ferrari F1 car anymore as building the F1 car in Maranello takes precedent over building a winning F1 car regardless of where it's built.

[smh][shoulder shrug]

The only argument made for keeping the team in Italian is history and tradition. Sorry, history and tradition don’t win championships. Would anyone here care if the Ferrari F1 cad was built in Milton Keys if they were dominating both championships? Honestly? Would you stop being a fan because the car isn’t built in Italy? Would you rather an Italian made Ferrari F1 car come in 11th of a English made Ferrari F1 car come in 1st?

**Aviamata** · 4th June 2023, 16:17

Originally Posted by WS6TransAm01

The only argument made for keeping the team in Italian is history and tradition. Sorry, history and tradition don’t win championships. Would anyone here care if the Ferrari F1 cad was built in Milton Keys if they were dominating both championships? Honestly? Would you stop being a fan because the car isn’t built in Italy? Would you rather an Italian made Ferrari F1 car come in 11th of a English made Ferrari F1 car come in 1st?

They could have just done that and keep saying ''We're still an Italian team''

**PURE PASSION** · 4th June 2023, 16:22

we all would love to to an all Italian team ,BUT still wins championships. Since this cannot happen, do wharever it takes to reach the top !!! I dont care if you have to go to Madagascar. Just do it.Or give them tens of millions to come to Italy if you whant to stay here !!!

**Aviamata** · 4th June 2023, 16:25

Originally Posted by PURE PASSION

we all would love to to an all Italian team ,BUT still wins championships. Since this cannot happen, do wharever it takes to reach the top !!! I dont care if you have to go to Madagascar. Just do it.Or give them tens of millions to come to Italy if you whant to stay here !!!

The name ''Scuderia Ferrari'' says all . It's an Italian team and i don't care if 100% of the personal is British . we can say that these British are working for an Italian team

**Greig** · 4th June 2023, 16:27

Originally Posted by Alonsomaniac

Ferrari is getting near a dangerous point. If they continue like this, a day will come that Leclerc has had enough. And then we are really in trouble.

Leclerc leaving or not won't change anything.