2023 Austrian Grand Prix - Practice, Qualifying, Sprint Shootout & Sprint Race Thread

[tifosi1993]

Mate... Carlos has better pace in almost every race this year.

Nope. Charles always had and has better race pace than Carlos. And you'd see it again tomorrow as well. Just don't disappear like usual when Charles does a good race.

[nani_s23]

Mate... Carlos has better pace in almost every race this year.

I would say Carlos did make the progress over CL this year. But coming to Raw pace, CL can extract more than Carlos. That’s evident many a times.

[tifosi1993]

Oh god , 2010 we have a good team and i feel so bad for Fernando . Just can't overtake that damn Renault on the last lap

Yeah, the poster I'm replying to is blaming Charles for the "bad strategy calls". So he/she must be blaming Alonso for Abu Dhabi 2010, one of the worst strategy blunder in history.

He/she must also blame Alonso for not winning the 2012 title as well.

[tifosi1993]

I would say Carlos did make the progress over CL this year. But coming to Raw pace, CL can extract more than Carlos. That’s evident many a times.

The live timing doesn't lie. But I guess some people only focus on the thing they want to focus. Carlos's side of the garage is competent, he hasn't had any reliability problems yet and always start the race from where he qualifies.

[tifosi1993]

But anyway, what's done is done. I'm praying and hoping that we don't muck it up again tomorrow. P2-P3 is a very good race starting and race finishing order.

[PURE PASSION]

I'm pretty disappointed about CL.i had SO much faith in him , watching him from F3-F2 and his first 2-3 years in F1 ,he looked like the real deal. He looked like a super fast talent on par with Max - Ham and in 1 lap even faster.
NOW from 2021 he's doing a lot mediocre- bad races!!!!!
WHAT happened to him. Has the team destroyed his confidence??? It looks like the team had screwed him many times ,in a bad car or a bad call / strategy, and he over drive to find something extra. And on the way he has lost something that make him to thinking straight and driving really bad races!!!!!
I think the only solution is the team to become more steady and give him a fast car so he can regain his confidence/ mentality!!!!!

[RossTheBoss]

Then you're in for a rude awaking, I'm afraid. Charles will excel at RB. His pace is there and RB have competent people to take care of him and make his driving job easy.

Max wasn't beating the Mercedes before 2021. As soon as he got the car, he has transformed. Same thing with Charles last year. But Ferrari isn't RB. They have the best people in-house and know how to develop both the car and young drivers.

Um, no.

There were signs that Max had championship level talent from the start. Back during the Mercedes domination, Max was usually the best of the rest, and he was able to often out race the Ferrari's on pure pace, and be the one to defeat Mercedes on their off weekends. He got better every year, and we saw him grow out of his charger immaturity. It wasn't just the car.

Leclerc? Still making rookie mistakes. Blame the team and car all you want.
Fact is to get Max level domination, you're going to have sign Max himself, just like Todt had to sign Schumacher.

Does Leclerc have a championship in him? I believe so. But he is NOT going to usher in some era of Ferrari domination. Forget it. Its fantasy.

[RossTheBoss]

Nope. Charles always had and has better race pace than Carlos. And you'd see it again tomorrow as well. Just don't disappear like usual when Charles does a good race.

And if Carlos beats Leclerc fair and square I'm sure it'll be the teams fault and they should've done something to stop it.

Talent wise Leclerc is better than Carlos, but not by the margin you seem to think.

[nani_s23]

Um, no.

There were signs that Max had championship level talent from the start. Back during the Mercedes domination, Max was usually the best of the rest, and he was able to often out race the Ferrari's on pure pace, and be the one to defeat Mercedes on their off weekends. He got better every year, and we saw him grow out of his charger immaturity. It wasn't just the car.

Leclerc? Still making rookie mistakes. Blame the team and car all you want.
Fact is to get Max level domination, you're going to have sign Max himself, just like Todt had to sign Schumacher.

Does Leclerc have a championship in him? I believe so. But he is NOT going to usher in some era of Ferrari domination. Forget it. Its fantasy.

Oh man RB was 2nd best team after Merc in those domination era.
What cars did Charles drive?
2019 -> which is only good for 1 Lap?
2020 & 2021 -> do we need to discuss about this now?
2022 -> the car was good for 5-6 races, that’s when he was leading the title where was max then?
2023 -> Right from the start he’s facing bad luck. Don’t worry season is not over yet.

[PURE PASSION]

Um, no.

There were signs that Max had championship level talent from the start. Back during the Mercedes domination, Max was usually the best of the rest, and he was able to often out race the Ferrari's on pure pace, and be the one to defeat Mercedes on their off weekends. He got better every year, and we saw him grow out of his charger immaturity. It wasn't just the car.

Leclerc? Still making rookie mistakes. Blame the team and car all you want.
Fact is to get Max level domination, you're going to have sign Max himself, just like Todt had to sign Schumacher.

Does Leclerc have a championship in him? I believe so. But he is NOT going to usher in some era of Ferrari domination. Forget it. Its fantasy.

[nani_s23]

Charles Leclerc:

"Very simple. I'm not at the level I want in these conditions. The second it's half wet-dry, I'm nowhere. I have no feeling with the car. No excuses. I need to be better."

"It seems like I’m always on the wrong side of what must be done."

[nani_s23]

Charles Leclerc:

"Very simple. I'm not at the level I want in these conditions. The second it's half wet-dry, I'm nowhere. I have no feeling with the car. No excuses. I need to be better."

"It seems like I’m always on the wrong side of what must be done."

[nani_s23]

Both drivers complaining our car behaviour on high speed sections. Hmm..

[Kyss4k]

Nope. Charles always had and has better race pace than Carlos. And you'd see it again tomorrow as well. Just don't disappear like usual when Charles does a good race.

That's just not true... I am watching live timing alongside the races every race and his race pace is not impressive. He often struggles against Carlos this year and that's a hard fact.

[tifosi1993]

Um, no.

There were signs that Max had championship level talent from the start. Back during the Mercedes domination, Max was usually the best of the rest, and he was able to often out race the Ferrari's on pure pace, and be the one to defeat Mercedes on their off weekends. He got better every year, and we saw him grow out of his charger immaturity. It wasn't just the car.

Leclerc? Still making rookie mistakes. Blame the team and car all you want.
Fact is to get Max level domination, you're going to have sign Max himself, just like Todt had to sign Schumacher.

Does Leclerc have a championship in him? I believe so. But he is NOT going to usher in some era of Ferrari domination. Forget it. Its fantasy.

Yeah, I remember 2019 when Max crashed 6 races in a row. Even up until 2020 he was making mistakes, just go and watch the wet races of 2020 when Max the "rain master" was spinning rather than winning.
And Max had far better cars than Charles had in his entire career. The only "good cars" Charles enjoyed were the 2019 and 2022 Ferraris. And we all know what a commanding job Ferrari did with the development of those cars!

And man you make me laugh. So the current Ferrari team is capable of domination but Charles is holding them back!

Dude, the only one living in the fantasy land is you.

[tifosi1993]

And if Carlos beats Leclerc fair and square I'm sure it'll be the teams fault and they should've done something to stop it.

Talent wise Leclerc is better than Carlos, but not by the margin you seem to think.

No one is unbeatable. Carlos will beat Charles and Perez will beat Max on occasions. But how many times Carlos is getting grid drops or suffering from reliability problems like Charles? Ferrari's best race finish this year is P3 with Charles and best qualifying result is also thanks to Charles. Carlos had finished every race this year and yet to bag a podium.

Carlos's only victory in F1 was last year's Silverstone, and we all know how he had won that race. But yeah, Charles is holding Ferrari back!

[Brembo]

Carlos picks up 6 more points! Another zero outing for Charles. Charles needs a Win to clear the air !

[tifosi1993]

That's just not true... I am watching live timing alongside the races every race and his race pace is not impressive. He often struggles against Carlos this year and that's a hard fact.

In which races Carlos looked the faster, when both started the race from their qualifying positions? You'd probably say Miami and Spain, but even then it could be argued that when both were running on clean air, Charles had better race pace.

[tifosi1993]

Both drivers complaining our car behaviour on high speed sections. Hmm..

Tyre warm up issue. Carlos had clean air and was able to manage his tyres, Charles was in traffic and taking weird lines to make some overtakes.

Track condition was optimal yesterday and the car looked great, Charles did the fastest S2 and was second fastest in the S3.

[RossTheBoss]

Yeah, I remember 2019 when Max crashed 6 races in a row. Even up until 2020 he was making mistakes, just go and watch the wet races of 2020 when Max the "rain master" was spinning rather than winning.
And Max had far better cars than Charles had in his entire career. The only "good cars" Charles enjoyed were the 2019 and 2022 Ferraris. And we all know what a commanding job Ferrari did with the development of those cars!

And man you make me laugh. So the current Ferrari team is capable of domination but Charles is holding them back!

Dude, the only one living in the fantasy land is you.

Do you have some kind of reading comprehension problems? I didn't say Ferrari is capable of domination, I said even with a car on par with RB, Leclerc and Ferrari won't dominate like Max does right now. Nice straw man

[Kyss4k]

In which races Carlos looked the faster, when both started the race from their qualifying positions? You'd probably say Miami and Spain, but even then it could be argued that when both were running on clean air, Charles had better race pace.

Miami, Spain, Canada (yeah, Carlos was faster stuck behind Charles), in Monaco Carlos was at worst keeping up with Charles. The last 4 races basically were not impressive from Charles at all. And that argument about clear air is false as well. I Miami even Haas was overtaking Charles!

[RossTheBoss]

In which races Carlos looked the faster, when both started the race from their qualifying positions? You'd probably say Miami and Spain, but even then it could be argued that when both were running on clean air, Charles had better race pace.

Would you give it a rest? Outside of Bahrain and Baku, Sainz has either equal or better pace than Leclerc. The stats tell the story, and if you'd stop freebasing a delusion pipe, you'd see that yourself.

This crap every race of "It was dirty air! It was traffic! It was cold tires!" or it's this, or it's that, is old and tired excuse making. Leclerc is having a bad year beyond the issues with just the car, and he's got to work on himself big time.

In case you haven't noticed, Mercedes have developed the hell out of their car, and are having just as many issues if not more than Ferrari. So, this idea Leclerc has some impossible car that can't get podium results in is just bull crap.

[tifosi1993]

Do you have some kind of reading comprehension problems? I didn't say Ferrari is capable of domination, I said even with a car on par with RB, Leclerc and Ferrari won't dominate like Max does right now. Nice straw man

You are funny. Todt recruited Ross Brawn and Rory Bryne along with Schumacher. And even than it took them 5 years to win the title, and back than there was unlimited testing.
"But he is NOT going to usher in some era of Ferrari domination", read your own line again.

[tifosi1993]

Miami, Spain, Canada (yeah, Carlos was faster stuck behind Charles), in Monaco Carlos was at worst keeping up with Charles. The last 4 races basically were not impressive from Charles at all. And that argument about clear air is false as well. I Miami even Haas was overtaking Charles!

Yup, just some handful races. In Canada he was in the DRS range of Charles for couple of laps, but never had the pace to overtake him or make a move. Sure Ferrari said Charles that Carlos is not going to attack him, but he wasn't in the position to attack anyway. Carlos even pitted before Charles in Canada, where undercut was the better strategy and came out behind. And after the pitstop the gap was grown from 1.1 seconds to more than 3 seconds.

As I've already said, Charles isn't unbeatable. In Monaco he should've been P3, and Carlos got outqualified by Ocon.

[RossTheBoss]

You are funny. Todt recruited Ross Brawn and Rory Bryne along with Schumacher. And even than it took them 5 years to win the title, and back than there was unlimited testing.
"But he is NOT going to usher in some era of Ferrari domination", read your own line again.

Nice rewrite of history to avoid eating crow.

Brawn and Bryne only came by 97'. And guess what? Schumacher took Ferrari to the championship finale in both 97' and 98', and had he not broken his leg in 99', it's highly probable he'd have won that championship, too.

[tifosi1993]

Would you give it a rest? Outside of Bahrain and Baku, Sainz has either equal or better pace than Leclerc. The stats tell the story, and if you'd stop freebasing a delusion pipe, you'd see that yourself.

This crap every race of "It was dirty air! It was traffic! It was cold tires!" or it's this, or it's that, is old and tired excuse making. Leclerc is having a bad year beyond the issues with just the car, and he's got to work on himself big time.

In case you haven't noticed, Mercedes have developed the hell out of their car, and are having just as many issues if not more than Ferrari. So, this idea Leclerc has some impossible car that can't get podium results in is just bull crap.

Who said the car was "impossible"? Quit jerking off to Max and start paying some attention.

The fact remain is that, Charles was P3 in Bahrain before his engine related DNF. Qualified P2 in Saudi but was forced to take a grid penalty due to the reliability issue of the prior race. Was P3 in Monaco and would've finished P3 as well but had to take a grid penalty because of impeding. Today again he was forced to take 3 place grid drop.

No one is saying that Charles is having an amazing season. But he's not as bad as you are implying.

[RossTheBoss]

Yup, just some handful races. In Canada he was in the DRS range of Charles for couple of laps, but never had the pace to overtake him or make a move. Sure Ferrari said Charles that Carlos is not going to attack him, but he wasn't in the position to attack anyway. Carlos even pitted before Charles in Canada, where undercut was the better strategy and came out behind. And after the pitstop the gap was grown from 1.1 seconds to more than 3 seconds.

As I've already said, Charles isn't unbeatable. In Monaco he should've been P3, and Carlos got outqualified by Ocon.

Really grasping at straws. While Max beats his teammate by 20 seconds, you want to argue Leclerc beating Sainz in a race where the latter was ordered not to attack somehow demonstrates the latter should be some undisputed team leader.

[tifosi1993]

Nice rewrite of history to avoid eating crow.

Brawn and Bryne only came by 97'. And guess what? Schumacher took Ferrari to the championship finale in both 97' and 98', and had he not broken his leg in 99', it's highly probable he'd have won that championship, too.

Oh yeah, it was Schumacher himself and himself alone that made Ferrari good!

So you have gone from 2022 to 1997, in order to justify your vitriol towards the current Ferrari driver. Sad.

[wisepie]

Disappointing sprint race for Charles but credit to Carlos for his P3. Another grid penalty didn't help and then stuck behind Ocon and fighting to keep Lando behind, car didn't look good either but I still won't blame Charles as the conditions obviously played a part compared to his quali performance yesterday. Should have pitted a lap sooner in the sprint onto softs (if they had any?) with so few laps remaining. Hope it's dry for the GP proper tomorrow.

[RossTheBoss]

Who said the car was "impossible"? Quit jerking off to Max and start paying some attention.

The fact remain is that, Charles was P3 in Bahrain before his engine related DNF. Qualified P2 in Saudi but was forced to take a grid penalty due to the reliability issue of the prior race. Was P3 in Monaco and would've finished P3 as well but had to take a grid penalty because of impeding. Today again he was forced to take 3 place grid drop.

No one is saying that Charles is having an amazing season. But he's not as bad as you are implying.

Stop freebasing whatever drugs you're on and take a cold look at reality.

Charles consistently is inconsistent. He's either on or off, and this year he's mostly been off.

Moronic crash in Australia, TWO stupid crashes in Miami and got stuck behind a Haas for 90% of the race, screwed his qualifying in Monaco, walked away with no points in Spain after qualifying at the back, missed Q3 in Canada, and stunk in the rain today.

Blaming the team for all his mistakes doesn't help him. The kid has got some growing up to do - like you.