2023 Hungarian Grand Prix - Practice & Qualifying Thread

[Kyss4k]

actually they popped a graphic onto the screen in FP2 that Ferrari outdeveloped Red Bull since the start of the season, guess you missed that.

But here's the thing, in a cost cap era, we need to learn to throw seasons away and tank it.

That's how it works in basketball, hockey, and football in the U.S. The team that tanks a season or two, gets the best players, and all of sudden they are unstoppable.

Trust the proces people.

We don't bring any big updates, we have know the car needs a fundamental redesign. In 2024, we can bring the true successor to the F1-75, and have a 5th place team in season development resources.

Man... we've had 2 years headstart basically coming into 2022 as we ditched both 2020 and 2021 season development and focused on the new rules... We still got beaten by the team who was fighting TILL THE LAST RACE in 2021. How big of a headstart do we need than? A decade? That's sadly not possible. This team can build a winning car only by a mirracle. And you can't count on mirracles, you need to know what you're doing. Which we clearly don't.

[PURE PASSION]

Man... we've had 2 years headstart basically coming into 2022 as we ditched both 2020 and 2021 season development and focused on the new rules... We still got beaten by the team who was fighting TILL THE LAST RACE in 2021. How big of a headstart do we need than? A decade? That's sadly not possible. This team can build a winning car only by a mirracle. And you can't count on mirracles, you need to know what you're doing. Which we clearly don't.

+1!!

[RossTheBoss]

Man... we've had 2 years headstart basically coming into 2022 as we ditched both 2020 and 2021 season development and focused on the new rules... We still got beaten by the team who was fighting TILL THE LAST RACE in 2021. How big of a headstart do we need than? A decade? That's sadly not possible. This team can build a winning car only by a mirracle. And you can't count on mirracles, you need to know what you're doing. Which we clearly don't.

Did we have a headstart really, or is it just Binotto told us he was working on the 2022 car early, when that really wasn't the case? Lot of teams bluffed about that, and I think Ferrari were one of them.

[RossTheBoss]

Because Ferrari is a spoiled rich kid who needs all the expensive and custom-made tools to perform well. But then you have even wealthier rich kids like RB and Merc, who are managing just fine and don't need spoon-fed by the governing body in order to succeed.

The idea that Ferrari's domination was down to the FIA is utter ********. They simply had an awesome development machine from 97-2008 that couldn't be touched by even the likes of Newey in those days.

The British hated Ferrari domination. Mosley and Ecclestone pulled out all the stops to knee cap, so one of the UK teams could rise to glory.

And the idea that Mercedes and Red Bull success has nothing to do with any political demands of theirs is utter crap as well. Mercedes were years ahead in hybrid development, which is why they demanded the sport convert to that formula, and only that formula. Red Bull outright threatened to quit F1 if their engine needs weren't met, and they got what they wanted - knowing full well engine development is their weakness being customers of others.

Ferrari simply suck at the politics required to lobby for a level playing field for them to win.

[Brembo]

Very well said !!!

[Brembo]

Lewis on pole ; Russell 18th ! Bernie would never have allowed it ! Max took his foot off the gas pedal. Millions more fans ready to watch and hope Lewis gets beat 1st lap !

[paolo lalli]

Forget lewis getting beat.Ferrari are in world of pain.Ferrari are going backwards there staff can not keep pace with other teams.The hunt for talent is on big time,because this can not continue. The future needs to be positive because this year and other years are lost.The true state of ferrari has been laid bare for all to see a story state of affairs indeed.5 or 6th best team currently simply ridiculous.

[stefa]

It is Sunday morning. Race day. I am soon to go to the track, and I don't have any expectation, except LH not to win today!

[hakanabi]

Alonso: New Pirelli tyres hurting Aston and Red Bull pace

Fernando Alonso believes Aston Martin has been impacted by the recent change of construction of Pirelli's tyres, and suggests his team isn't the only outfit that has suffered from the adjustment.

At Silverstone two weeks ago, Pirelli introduced a more robust tyre across its selection of compounds, having developed the product in response to the increased load levels of this year's ground-effect cars.

Alonso suggested after the British Grand Prix that the new tyre specification had perhaps weighed on Aston's relatively low-key performance at Silverstone.

But in Hungary, where he qualified P8, the F1 veteran appeared even more convinced about that assumption although he also believed that Aston had been out-developed recently by its direct rivals.
You see the upgrades from everyone on Thursday when they have to publish the FIA documents and we see for 12 rounds now what we brought to the circuit and what the main rivals they brought obviously it’s a bit different there," he said.

"So we need to speed up, we know, as a team also in many different areas one would be the rate of development into next year’s project."
Also, it is a coincidence that when the new Pirelli tyres came in Silverstone there are a couple of teams that were struggling more, and a couple of teams that are very happy with the car now.

"It's not only us, I think Red Bull has clearly been hit with those tyres, they've been one-two in every qualifying, one-two in every race, and now they are not even on pole position.

"Checo [Perez] is struggling to be in the top 10. At Silverstone I think Max was only three seconds in front of Lando. So I see things a little bit abnormal since Silverstone."

Alonso's P8 qualifying result was only one spot better than at Silverstone. But overall, the 41-year-old was happy with his car's performance at the Hungaroring.

"We made a few changes into qualifying and I felt good, I felt fast," he said.

"And the average time to pole position has been four or five tenths, and it's four-tenths today, so it was a normal qualifying for us.

"But obviously seven cars [ahead of] us. So I think even though it was a normal qualifying for us, it was an outstanding qualifying for some of our main competitors. So result-wise, it's not a great Saturday."

[Cavallino]

Man... we've had 2 years headstart basically coming into 2022 as we ditched both 2020 and 2021 season development and focused on the new rules... We still got beaten by the team who was fighting TILL THE LAST RACE in 2021. How big of a headstart do we need than? A decade? That's sadly not possible. This team can build a winning car only by a mirracle. And you can't count on mirracles, you need to know what you're doing. Which we clearly don't.

that's a narrative you have have no proof of, and you don't recall the engine upgrades we brought in 2021.

[Cavallino]

Alonso: New Pirelli tyres hurting Aston and Red Bull pace

Fernando Alonso believes Aston Martin has been impacted by the recent change of construction of Pirelli's tyres, and suggests his team isn't the only outfit that has suffered from the adjustment.

At Silverstone two weeks ago, Pirelli introduced a more robust tyre across its selection of compounds, having developed the product in response to the increased load levels of this year's ground-effect cars.

Alonso suggested after the British Grand Prix that the new tyre specification had perhaps weighed on Aston's relatively low-key performance at Silverstone.

But in Hungary, where he qualified P8, the F1 veteran appeared even more convinced about that assumption although he also believed that Aston had been out-developed recently by its direct rivals.
You see the upgrades from everyone on Thursday when they have to publish the FIA documents and we see for 12 rounds now what we brought to the circuit and what the main rivals they brought obviously it’s a bit different there," he said.

"So we need to speed up, we know, as a team also in many different areas one would be the rate of development into next year’s project."
Also, it is a coincidence that when the new Pirelli tyres came in Silverstone there are a couple of teams that were struggling more, and a couple of teams that are very happy with the car now.

"It's not only us, I think Red Bull has clearly been hit with those tyres, they've been one-two in every qualifying, one-two in every race, and now they are not even on pole position.

"Checo [Perez] is struggling to be in the top 10. At Silverstone I think Max was only three seconds in front of Lando. So I see things a little bit abnormal since Silverstone."

Alonso's P8 qualifying result was only one spot better than at Silverstone. But overall, the 41-year-old was happy with his car's performance at the Hungaroring.

"We made a few changes into qualifying and I felt good, I felt fast," he said.

"And the average time to pole position has been four or five tenths, and it's four-tenths today, so it was a normal qualifying for us.

"But obviously seven cars [ahead of] us. So I think even though it was a normal qualifying for us, it was an outstanding qualifying for some of our main competitors. So result-wise, it's not a great Saturday."

yes, any astute viewer has noticed this, but astute viewers and this forum are things that don't go together.

Maybe, instead of improving our pace for Canada and Austria, during the Spain test, we should have actually used it to figure out THOSE tyres.

OR what's more likely, is we know we're not gunning for anything this season, and Red Bull knows they already won, so both teams aren't putting any resources into bringing an update to adapt to these tyres this season. Whereas the likes of Mclaren have.

No doubt these have been weird races with even Alfa beating us.

[Kyss4k]

that's a narrative you have have no proof of, and you don't recall the engine upgrades we brought in 2021.

No proof of? Just read the articles back in 2021. There was no development of the 2021 car and basically all resources and time was invested into 2022. That's a fact you can check by a simple Google search.

[Cavallino]

No proof of? Just read the articles back in 2021. There was no development of the 2021 car and basically all resources and time was invested into 2022. That's a fact you can check by a simple Google search.

like i said, we brought engine upgrades which allowed us to finish ahead of McLaren that season.

And there were development restrictions during that time due to covid, and cost caps and development caps even then.

we didn't stop development as much as you think, or have as much of a headstart as you seem to think.

Those are facts.

[Brembo]

Lewis on pole ; Russell 18th ! Bernie would never have allowed it ! Max took his foot off the gas pedal. Millions more fans ready to watch and hope Lewis gets beat 1st lap !

I called it !

[Kyss4k]

like i said, we brought engine upgrades which allowed us to finish ahead of McLaren that season.

And there were development restrictions during that time due to covid, and cost caps and development caps even then.

we didn't stop development as much as you think, or have as much of a headstart as you seem to think.

Those are facts.

The engine upgrades were totally a different kind of a thing though. They were testing the parts for the new engine they made for 2022. The car itself did not get a single major upgrade.

[Cavallino]

The engine upgrades were totally a different kind of a thing though. They were testing the parts for the new engine they made for 2022. The car itself did not get a single major upgrade.

that's the point though, are you assuming the engine upgrades took no time or resources?

and the rest of my statement stands, cost/development cap, covid.

[Kyss4k]

that's the point though, are you assuming the engine upgrades took no time or resources?

and the rest of my statement stands, cost/development cap, covid.

It's not the point, because the engine development is not a part of the cost cap. It has a separate one.