SF-24 Challenger Discussion Thread

[PURE PASSION]

i am starting to disagree with this.

We know from his Red Bull days that Carlos can keep up with Max, so reallly the true pace of the Ferrari is represented by the pace of Carlos.

This means our car is third fastest, with a gap to the second fastest, we need another half a second a lap to get to the front of the field.

Leclerc dragging it into contention to get us within a tenth isn't indicative of the car.

Not at all.
1st I'm betting you 1m that if you put Sainz right now in this RedBull you will have a slightly better result then Perez provides. Simply because the RB20 is tailor made for Max. You can't take just 10 races back in 2015 as reference .
And then I totally disagree with the opinion that we must consider the true pace of a car ,the results performance of the 2nd slowest driver.Not just for us but for all teams.
Simply because 1 driver (Max,Lec Ham Alo etc) CANT extract more then the car can give. There is no such thing on the real world as the 110% we say some times when a driver delivers an astonishing result. NO. He just managed to extract the (or almost) true performance.
It's just the other drivers, the slower ones, can't drive the car not in a 90% because the car start to behave strange with their driving style.
So NO, Carlos performance in Imola was not the reference but Lec's. Sainz simply underperformed!!!!

[Cavallino]

Not at all.
1st I'm betting you 1m that if you put Sainz right now in this RedBull you will have a slightly better result then Perez provides. Simply because the RB20 is tailor made for Max. You can't take just 10 races back in 2015 as reference .
And then I totally disagree with the opinion that we must consider the true pace of a car ,the results performance of the 2nd slowest driver.Not just for us but for all teams.
Simply because 1 driver (Max,Lec Ham Alo etc) CANT extract more then the car can give. There is no such thing on the real world as the 110% we say some times when a driver delivers an astonishing result. NO. He just managed to extract the (or almost) true performance.
It's just the other drivers, the slower ones, can't drive the car not in a 90% because the car start to behave strange with their driving style.
So NO, Carlos performance in Imola was not the reference but Lec's. Sainz simply underperformed!!!!

i agree if you put Carlos in the red bull now, he would be better than Perez but not quite at the level of Max for the reasons you stated. You're right there is no such thing as 100%.

But you think that Norris is quicker than Sainz by that much? Look at their times in Mclaren.

Hopefully it's just a setup and refinement issue ( which would be great because it might give Leclerc the last tenth he needs ), but Sainz should have been up there no matter how you slice it, let's hope it was setup and not that we now have the third fastest car.

[PURE PASSION]

i agree if you put Carlos in the red bull now, he would be better than Perez but not quite at the level of Max for the reasons you stated. You're right there is no such thing as 100%.

But you think that Norris is quicker than Sainz by that much? Look at their times in Mclaren.

Hopefully it's just a setup and refinement issue ( which would be great because it might give Leclerc the last tenth he needs ), but Sainz should have been up there no matter how you slice it, let's hope it was setup and not that we now have the third fastest car.

Its simple , SF24.2 is a more oversteery car and Sainz dont like oversteer cars. Just like the 1st half of 2022 . when once again Lec was quite ahead of him .
What we saw in Imola was a mix of circumstances that led to that result. Only Max and Norris had a somewhat easy-clear race .All the others had something else to do like Lec & Pia who had to push hard at the beginning of their hard stints and they lost the sweat spot on their tires. Carlos something simlar + he hadn't found the best set up for him and dont know if he can really find it since he's not comfortable with th whole concept of the new car.

[Greig]

Not at all.
1st I'm betting you 1m that if you put Sainz right now in this RedBull you will have a slightly better result then Perez provides. Simply because the RB20 is tailor made for Max. You can't take just 10 races back in 2015 as reference .
And then I totally disagree with the opinion that we must consider the true pace of a car ,the results performance of the 2nd slowest driver.Not just for us but for all teams.
Simply because 1 driver (Max,Lec Ham Alo etc) CANT extract more then the car can give. There is no such thing on the real world as the 110% we say some times when a driver delivers an astonishing result. NO. He just managed to extract the (or almost) true performance.
It's just the other drivers, the slower ones, can't drive the car not in a 90% because the car start to behave strange with their driving style.
So NO, Carlos performance in Imola was not the reference but Lec's. Sainz simply underperformed!!!!

+1

[Brembo]

Sr Lewis choose Charles over Sainz for his team mate knowing Sainz to be way harder to compete with come next season. Charles will be well paid to move over when needed That 8th WDC a big deal for both Carlos and Ferrari as the TEAM ! Sainz wins races !!

[aroutis]

i am starting to disagree with this.

We know from his Red Bull days that Carlos can keep up with Max, so reallly the true pace of the Ferrari is represented by the pace of Carlos.

This means our car is third fastest, with a gap to the second fastest, we need another half a second a lap to get to the front of the field.

Leclerc dragging it into contention to get us within a tenth isn't indicative of the car.

I really don't agree.
Your mistake in this is that Carlos could keep up with Max when max was MUCH, and I mean MUCh younger. Now he's much more mature with a car wrapped around him.
To me, Carlos, as good as might be, is simply slower to Charles, and the car is what it is , when Charles drives it.

[aroutis]

Not at all.
1st I'm betting you 1m that if you put Sainz right now in this RedBull you will have a slightly better result then Perez provides. Simply because the RB20 is tailor made for Max. You can't take just 10 races back in 2015 as reference .
And then I totally disagree with the opinion that we must consider the true pace of a car ,the results performance of the 2nd slowest driver.Not just for us but for all teams.
Simply because 1 driver (Max,Lec Ham Alo etc) CANT extract more then the car can give. There is no such thing on the real world as the 110% we say some times when a driver delivers an astonishing result. NO. He just managed to extract the (or almost) true performance.
It's just the other drivers, the slower ones, can't drive the car not in a 90% because the car start to behave strange with their driving style.
So NO, Carlos performance in Imola was not the reference but Lec's. Sainz simply underperformed!!!!

Thank you !

[aroutis]

i agree if you put Carlos in the red bull now, he would be better than Perez but not quite at the level of Max for the reasons you stated. You're right there is no such thing as 100%.

But you think that Norris is quicker than Sainz by that much? Look at their times in Mclaren.

Hopefully it's just a setup and refinement issue ( which would be great because it might give Leclerc the last tenth he needs ), but Sainz should have been up there no matter how you slice it, let's hope it was setup and not that we now have the third fastest car.

You (and everyone else) should realize that we're in .1 from RBR, with a sparking new package we ran for the very first time, whereas it's not the first time Mclaren ran theirs.
Which means the news are great since we can start fine tuning it.
It's not doom and gloom, quite the opposite. It's game on!

[aroutis]

Its simple , SF24.2 is a more oversteery car and Sainz dont like oversteer cars. Just like the 1st half of 2022 . when once again Lec was quite ahead of him .
What we saw in Imola was a mix of circumstances that led to that result. Only Max and Norris had a somewhat easy-clear race .All the others had something else to do like Lec & Pia who had to push hard at the beginning of their hard stints and they lost the sweat spot on their tires. Carlos something simlar + he hadn't found the best set up for him and dont know if he can really find it since he's not comfortable with th whole concept of the new car.

Again, completely agree. Adding to this, let me add that from this point on and to the end of the season, whatever change is going to be happening to the SF-24 will be taking into consideration Leclerc primarily.
Carlos will be gone at the end of the season so, as the season progresses, he will be kept away from meetings for obvious reasons.

[Brembo]

Agree ! Charles needs all the help he can get over Carlos this season. Lewis made himself a wise choice for next season team mate wise ! Charles $$$ for sure will cooperate. Meanwhile; Saintz needs a job!

[Cavallino]

I really don't agree.
Your mistake in this is that Carlos could keep up with Max when max was MUCH, and I mean MUCh younger. Now he's much more mature with a car wrapped around him.
To me, Carlos, as good as might be, is simply slower to Charles, and the car is what it is , when Charles drives it.

i don't think you get faster with age, that's my opinion atleast. ( if you're already at the level of F1 driver, and you obviously know the basics like racing lines etc ). The other things, like, race craft, patience, car setup, sure. But not the raw speed. Look at Raikkonen.

[Cavallino]

You (and everyone else) should realize that we're in .1 from RBR, with a sparking new package we ran for the very first time, whereas it's not the first time Mclaren ran theirs.
Which means the news are great since we can start fine tuning it.
It's not doom and gloom, quite the opposite. It's game on!

you're right about that

and we can't say, the Mclaren package worked straight away in Miami, because of the circumstances of that race.

[Cavallino]

Again, completely agree. Adding to this, let me add that from this point on and to the end of the season, whatever change is going to be happening to the SF-24 will be taking into consideration Leclerc primarily.
Carlos will be gone at the end of the season so, as the season progresses, he will be kept away from meetings for obvious reasons.

that's got me thinking, what happens when Lewis comes on board, i believe his driving style to be more similar to Carlos than Leclerc. I completely agree we should set this thing up for Charles, now and next year and thereafter.

[PURE PASSION]

441526287_993660398936819_4898144022439104812_n.jpg
With the new package ,although its supposed to put more downforce from the bottom, it looks like we use more wing??!!1 Not so about Monaco but in Imola too we used more then others ! Strange !

[PURE PASSION]

that's got me thinking, what happens when Lewis comes on board, i believe his driving style to be more similar to Carlos than Leclerc. I completely agree we should set this thing up for Charles, now and next year and thereafter.

My personal opinion is that Ham is not coming to change the hole team and demand everything aroynd him. neither the team has sign him this this in mind. Ham knows that an 8th title is a bit tricky right now for him .He is nor pursuing it at all costs. He comes to us firstly and foremost because he wants to finish his carrer with ferrari. All drivers (at least most od them) have 3 dreams (as great Gilles Villeneuve had express them) . 1 to drive in F1. 2 to win a championship 3. to driver for Ferrari . If 2& 3 combined it will be the best of all.
So the way i see it .is that the team have organize the future for Lec to be champion. Ham comes to bring all short of help (financially, experience, engineers, etc) and if he can deliver something extra on the track and perform better then Lec ,then ok he will have his chance. But by no way i see him change everything in the team and start demanding things for his favor.
At least this is how i see it !!!

[racingbradley]

I don't know the Hamilton of old would want it all his way. Has he changed with age and life experience? I reserve judgement. One thing is for sure Charles is not here for the money......he's more interested in becoming WDC .......just my opinion.

[aroutis]

i don't think you get faster with age, that's my opinion atleast. ( if you're already at the level of F1 driver, and you obviously know the basics like racing lines etc ). The other things, like, race craft, patience, car setup, sure. But not the raw speed. Look at Raikkonen.

With age comes maturity in driving. Max came in F1 VERY young and made (at first) idiotic mistakes but as he grew up , those mistakes got eliminated.
This is what I mean, as the mistakes went bye bye, he inevitably grew faster. That, along with the fact that he did get better cars under him (ergo less pressure) got him where he is today.

Look at Charles just this year:
He got the SF-24, as he managed to get aligned with the car, he drives excellent.
Some would say that he is proned to mistakes, breaks under pressure. NONE of that, the car just was not good enough and he had to overdrive and we know what happens when a driver has to do this.

[aroutis]

that's got me thinking, what happens when Lewis comes on board, i believe his driving style to be more similar to Carlos than Leclerc. I completely agree we should set this thing up for Charles, now and next year and thereafter.

Unless something weird happens, I expect Charles to beat him clean at least at year #1.
Car is going to be built around Charles, team the same, even Lewis admits he only knows two persons in Ferrari, so he 's coming to a team that he will have to adapt and he won't have a Toto or a Ron to protect him and face a blazing fast Charles.
Ya, good luck with that.

[aroutis]

My personal opinion is that Ham is not coming to change the hole team and demand everything aroynd him. neither the team has sign him this this in mind. Ham knows that an 8th title is a bit tricky right now for him .He is nor pursuing it at all costs. He comes to us firstly and foremost because he wants to finish his carrer with ferrari. All drivers (at least most od them) have 3 dreams (as great Gilles Villeneuve had express them) . 1 to drive in F1. 2 to win a championship 3. to driver for Ferrari . If 2& 3 combined it will be the best of all.
So the way i see it .is that the team have organize the future for Lec to be champion. Ham comes to bring all short of help (financially, experience, engineers, etc) and if he can deliver something extra on the track and perform better then Lec ,then ok he will have his chance. But by no way i see him change everything in the team and start demanding things for his favor.
At least this is how i see it !!!

I tend to agree with this point of view.

[aroutis]

I don't know the Hamilton of old would want it all his way. Has he changed with age and life experience? I reserve judgement. One thing is for sure Charles is not here for the money......he's more interested in becoming WDC .......just my opinion.

I agree. While money is definitely good (!) , he also loves Ferrari.

[tifosi1993]

New low drag RW for Canada, track specific RW in Spain, and then another important upgrade in Silverstone.

Expecting strong performance in the aforementioned races. The Ferrari engine isn't short of power, so it is time to utilize it fully and unlock some additional lap times.

[Cavallino]

New low drag RW for Canada, track specific RW in Spain, and then another important upgrade in Silverstone.

Expecting strong performance in the aforementioned races. The Ferrari engine isn't short of power, so it is time to utilize it fully and unlock some additional lap times.

if that low drag RW works, we can be ultra competitive in Canada.

[PURE PASSION]

New low drag RW for Canada, track specific RW in Spain, and then another important upgrade in Silverstone.

Expecting strong performance in the aforementioned races. The Ferrari engine isn't short of power, so it is time to utilize it fully and unlock some additional lap times.

+ By Spain , they expect to have understood completely and extract almost everything from SF-24 EVO !!

[Cavallino]

i really don't see Lewis being able to compete with Charles when he gets here, and I'm starting to think he will play nice too, he has about 450 million reasons to...

[PURE PASSION]

Ferrari: summary of information from @formu1a__uno via live Twitch:

- Leclerc today has great confidence in what he does on the track and in the team. The victory in Monaco is important for the future. Leclerc played a major role in this victory, he made the difference in pushing this car which was already going fast through the streets of Monaco.

- What is also important in Monaco is that Ferrari won as a favorite. This is important since it is never easy to approach a weekend as a favorite, with all the pressure. The team did a great job from the start of free practice to the end of the race. There was a certain pressure on the team because we knew that victory was within Ferrari's reach but that we had to be perfect, not make any mistakes. And they did. This is a sign of a step forward.

- The role of Carlos Sainz was also very important. He did great teamwork in Monaco. He was very smart in the race to prevent Norris from making a pit stop. It also shows that this duo can do great teamwork when they want to.

- What also makes the difference is the confidence that the two pilots have in the SF-24. They can push the car to the limit from the first laps on the track. The ease and maneuverability of the car. Ferrari must now work on the efficiency of the car. Canada will already be an interesting first test for the new updates. The team took the right development path in its concept.

- The basic SF-24 was born with a little more "drag". We expect to see the introduction of a different rear wing in future races. Engineers are working on the next Silverstone package, the aim of which is to find efficiency in the car. Barcelona could be a fairly optimal track for the SF-24 because tire degradation needs to be managed.

- The Imola package brought a significant gain in the pace of the SF-24. Chatting with Ferrari engineers in the Monaco paddock, @SmilexTech says that since Imola the team has gained at least 2.5 tenths with the SF-24 2.0. The objective is to be able to extract the full potential from here to Barcelona, ​​so another 2 tenths.

- Ferrari 2025 = there was actually a test with the pull-rod suspension system at the front. But right now, it's very early to say if they're going to go in that direction. Normally, it's around summer that we decide on this kind of thing. So let's see in the future.

- Newey = he is a character who makes decisions in a humorous way. Until everything is signed, anything can happen. What is important is to provide the right environment. There is no rush in negotiations. It is simply up to Newey to accept this challenge or not. We must not forget that Fred Vasseur's Ferrari is very different, much more open-minded and that can attract people. @matteobobbi remains convinced that having signed Lewis Hamilton, there is a top engineer who will also arrive.

- Bryan Bozzi (Leclerc track engineer) = huge added value for Charles Leclerc from a communication point of view. The messages are much clearer and more precise. Bozzi doesn't hesitate to assert himself too, he has character. A bit similar to what Lambiase does with Verstappen. Leclerc has a lot more confidence in Bozzi, it's a very good step forward. Bozzi is also very familiar with vehicle performance, as that was his former role. Encouragement is also welcome.

[racingbradley]

Thanks for that summary Pure Passion. It all sounds very positive for the future. A few more race wins and Charles could be creeping up towards Verstappen in the points. It won't be easy as Max will be back and Mclaren are forever on our heels.

[PURE PASSION]

Thanks for that summary Pure Passion. It all sounds very positive for the future. A few more race wins and Charles could be creeping up towards Verstappen in the points. It won't be easy as Max will be back and Mclaren are forever on our heels.

Of course. The way the things are right now , any of the 4-5 drivers( Max , Lec-Sai ,Nor-Pia) can win in the next few races. Hope that we might have something more then the others in our package and we could make the difference. But every team will bring small or bigger
updates in almost every race because even the smallest part could put you from 5th to 1st and the opposite.

[Cavallino]

Ferrari: summary of information from @formu1a__uno via live Twitch:

- Leclerc today has great confidence in what he does on the track and in the team. The victory in Monaco is important for the future. Leclerc played a major role in this victory, he made the difference in pushing this car which was already going fast through the streets of Monaco.

- What is also important in Monaco is that Ferrari won as a favorite. This is important since it is never easy to approach a weekend as a favorite, with all the pressure. The team did a great job from the start of free practice to the end of the race. There was a certain pressure on the team because we knew that victory was within Ferrari's reach but that we had to be perfect, not make any mistakes. And they did. This is a sign of a step forward.

- The role of Carlos Sainz was also very important. He did great teamwork in Monaco. He was very smart in the race to prevent Norris from making a pit stop. It also shows that this duo can do great teamwork when they want to.

- What also makes the difference is the confidence that the two pilots have in the SF-24. They can push the car to the limit from the first laps on the track. The ease and maneuverability of the car. Ferrari must now work on the efficiency of the car. Canada will already be an interesting first test for the new updates. The team took the right development path in its concept.

- The basic SF-24 was born with a little more "drag". We expect to see the introduction of a different rear wing in future races. Engineers are working on the next Silverstone package, the aim of which is to find efficiency in the car. Barcelona could be a fairly optimal track for the SF-24 because tire degradation needs to be managed.

- The Imola package brought a significant gain in the pace of the SF-24. Chatting with Ferrari engineers in the Monaco paddock, @SmilexTech says that since Imola the team has gained at least 2.5 tenths with the SF-24 2.0. The objective is to be able to extract the full potential from here to Barcelona, ​​so another 2 tenths.

- Ferrari 2025 = there was actually a test with the pull-rod suspension system at the front. But right now, it's very early to say if they're going to go in that direction. Normally, it's around summer that we decide on this kind of thing. So let's see in the future.

- Newey = he is a character who makes decisions in a humorous way. Until everything is signed, anything can happen. What is important is to provide the right environment. There is no rush in negotiations. It is simply up to Newey to accept this challenge or not. We must not forget that Fred Vasseur's Ferrari is very different, much more open-minded and that can attract people. @matteobobbi remains convinced that having signed Lewis Hamilton, there is a top engineer who will also arrive.

- Bryan Bozzi (Leclerc track engineer) = huge added value for Charles Leclerc from a communication point of view. The messages are much clearer and more precise. Bozzi doesn't hesitate to assert himself too, he has character. A bit similar to what Lambiase does with Verstappen. Leclerc has a lot more confidence in Bozzi, it's a very good step forward. Bozzi is also very familiar with vehicle performance, as that was his former role. Encouragement is also welcome.

Am I reading that correctly?

That would bring the total of the package to 4+ tenths...?

[aroutis]

Am I reading that correctly?

That would bring the total of the package to 4+ tenths...?

I am at no way surprised. I have all the confidence to SF-24 and of course to Charles and Carlos.
We are most definitely positioned for the WCC and with bit of good luck, why not for the WDC!

[racingbradley]

Carlos & Charles spent Tuesday and Wednesday at Paul Ricard testing Pirelli. tyres. More running for the SF24