2024 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Race

**Greig** · 11th March 2024, 18:41

Originally Posted by aroutis

Everyone can believe everything and back it up with facts.
Otherwise we can also have people telling us earth is flat or something.

He is clearly flamebaiting. There is a difference.

If he believes Carlos is better then who cares really? Some believed JPM was better than Michael for example, it's an opinion not fact.

**Tony** · 11th March 2024, 20:58

Originally Posted by Greig

If he believes Carlos is better then who cares really? Some believed JPM was better than Michael for example, it's an opinion not fact.

/JPMthebest has entered the chat

**aroutis** · 12th March 2024, 11:44

Originally Posted by Greig

If he believes Carlos is better then who cares really? Some believed JPM was better than Michael for example, it's an opinion not fact.

It's not so much about Carlos, it's his repeated trolling bout the so called "8th" (lewis) and all the stuff he keeps saying like a broken record just to mess up with everyone I am sure you know because there is not a single member that does not complain.

People in the vast majority have resorted in putting him in ignore. Even that won't work. And yet, nothing is done for him.

Why? Is he the comic relief of this place? If that is the intention, it's not working.

**Brembo** · 12th March 2024, 13:25

Ferrari has taken Sr Lewis from Merc for 2025 ! That's trolling!

I could never keep up with all the Charles is better than Carlos trolls here :rotf l Charles Let Carlos win that last 2024 win! People as you say in the vast majority here have to be ivid that FERRARI and me want and got Sr Lewis to join our team. I truly wish both ur drivers points galore! Forget Spain vs Monaco.

**Cavallino** · 12th March 2024, 16:22

Originally Posted by Brembo

Ferrari has taken Sr Lewis from Merc for 2025 ! That's trolling!

I could never keep up with all the Charles is better than Carlos trolls here :rotf l Charles Let Carlos win that last 2024 win! People as you say in the vast majority here have to be ivid that FERRARI and me want and got Sr Lewis to join our team. I truly wish both ur drivers points galore! Forget Spain vs Monaco.

sir lewis will be Rubenized!

**Brembo** · 12th March 2024, 17:20

Originally Posted by Cavallino

sir lewis will be Rubenized!

If he does get Rubenized Charles had better win!!! I really doubt Ferrari would get $$$$ Lewis and then tell him to move over for Charles. I'm hoping for wins and points between both drivers. Enough already with Max and Perez. I wish the best for Sainz; he really got screwed having to leave Ferrari.

**TTRSMAD** · 13th March 2024, 01:59

This race in terms of data is very rich to analyse.

Ferrari will be hard at work to crunch all kinds of numbers and data to see how aggresive they can be with the set up and where they can get closer to Red Bull.

Australia might not be as easy for Verstappen if Leclerc manages to get pole or get in front come race time especially if Ferrari brings some kind of different spec rear wing.

**Cavallino** · 13th March 2024, 03:40

Originally Posted by TTRSMAD

This race in terms of data is very rich to analyse.

Ferrari will be hard at work to crunch all kinds of numbers and data to see how aggresive they can be with the set up and where they can get closer to Red Bull.

Australia might not be as easy for Verstappen if Leclerc manages to get pole or get in front come race time especially if Ferrari brings some kind of different spec rear wing.

yeah, there are some key data points that have led me to believe Ferrari left some pace on the table. I don't know if it's just copium though.

Leclerc's fastest lap, lack of tyre wear, the old spec wing, etc

**JChan** · 13th March 2024, 15:04

Originally Posted by Brembo

If he does get Rubenized Charles had better win!!! I really doubt Ferrari would get $$$$ Lewis and then tell him to move over for Charles. I'm hoping for wins and points between both drivers. Enough already with Max and Perez. I wish the best for Sainz; he really got screwed having to leave Ferrari.

Mate wake up! it is happening it's all done!

**Brembo** · 13th March 2024, 18:13

Thanks for waking me up!

I agree!

**Schaun** · 13th March 2024, 18:20

Originally Posted by paolo lalli

Ferrari are not using there full power mode yet it will be used at track specific circuits.I believe redbull have shown there playing cards in respect to power.i have never been a fan of street circuits.Give me a proper racing track any day .The street circuits are just publicity and show.Bring on monza baby now we are talking.

Monza is surely one of the best F1 tracks in history. Ferrari looks like the only team at the moment who can give some competition to Red Bull this season.

**Silent Bob** · 14th March 2024, 14:53

Originally Posted by Cavallino

yeah, there are some key data points that have led me to believe Ferrari left some pace on the table. I don't know if it's just copium though.

Leclerc's fastest lap, lack of tyre wear, the old spec wing, etc

I think you're right. Looking at what Leclerc had left, I wonder why they didn't tell him to push the last 10, 12 laps. Could have maybe caught Perez with his penalty or at least forced him to push harder.
Now.that they have deg under control, let's get aggressive.

**jgonzalesm6** · 14th March 2024, 16:11

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

I think you're right. Looking at what Leclerc had left, I wonder why they didn't tell him to push the last 10, 12 laps. Could have maybe caught Perez with his penalty or at least forced him to push harder.
Now.that they have deg under control, let's get aggressive.

Bearman was catching up to Leclerc with regards to lap times at the end of the race as Bearman got more comfortable with the car and knowing how to use the regenerative deployment system.

**Silent Bob** · 14th March 2024, 21:03

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

Bearman was catching up to Leclerc with regards to lap times at the end of the race as Bearman got more comfortable with the car and knowing how to use the regenerative deployment system.

By catching up, are you implying that he had better pace or that Leclerc was driving to a delta and not pushing?
I don't think Leclerc was pushing, as evidenced by his fast lap. Looks like he had quite a bit of pace left. Just not sure why he wasn't using it, unless it's a fuel usage issue.

**gump1480** · 17th March 2024, 07:27

Originally Posted by Silent Bob

By catching up, are you implying that he had better pace or that Leclerc was driving to a delta and not pushing?
I don't think Leclerc was pushing, as evidenced by his fast lap. Looks like he had quite a bit of pace left. Just not sure why he wasn't using it, unless it's a fuel usage issue.

I have a theory, maybe a very wild one: Ferrari is just conserving it's Engine-1 during race as this is the first engine. It needs to do mileage during Free practice, Quality and Race. From next engine onwards they can use Engine-1 for FP and the other for Quali+Race. This year it seems all teams are worried out the CE cooling as only 2 are allowed.

During the Saudi race I saw Lec increased his pace for few laps here and there and in all those laps I saw the top speed of the car improved; only to suddenly see the top speed drop the next few laps again (and a proportionate increase in laptime).

**Silent Bob** · 17th March 2024, 14:25

Originally Posted by gump1480

I have a theory, maybe a very wild one: Ferrari is just conserving it's Engine-1 during race as this is the first engine. It needs to do mileage during Free practice, Quality and Race. From next engine onwards they can use Engine-1 for FP and the other for Quali+Race. This year it seems all teams are worried out the CE cooling as only 2 are allowed.

During the Saudi race I saw Lec increased his pace for few laps here and there and in all those laps I saw the top speed of the car improved; only to suddenly see the top speed drop the next few laps again (and a proportionate increase in laptime).

Could be right. Could also be they were using Leclerc to test cooling at high output for a few laps to see how the engine responded?
But def seems to be using very conservative engine modes. Hopefully they can turn it up soon.

**tifosi1993** · 17th March 2024, 18:36

There wasn't any conservative engine mode in Saudi, they simply used a bit too much downforce. On every straight we were slower than the Red Bull. They brought a low DF RW but didn't use it.

I also think that the low ambient temperate is a hindrance for us. Charles struggled with the rear tyre warm up issue in qualifying and also during the race. As soon as the tyres were up to temperature, his pace was as good as the Red Bulls. But by then both Red Bulls were ahead and he had no one to challenge him from behind.

**jgonzalesm6** · 17th March 2024, 19:45

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

There wasn't any conservative engine mode in Saudi, they simply used a bit too much downforce. On every straight we were slower than the Red Bull. They brought a low DF RW but didn't use it.

I also think that the low ambient temperate is a hindrance for us. Charles struggled with the rear tyre warm up issue in qualifying and also during the race. As soon as the tyres were up to temperature, his pace was as good as the Red Bulls. But by then both Red Bulls were ahead and he had no one to challenge him from behind.

With regards to rear downforce, Ferrari removed a beam wing in Jeddah that they used in Bahrain.

I have the pics comparing both cars at both tracks with emphasis of the rear wings and beam wings.

In Bahrain, Ferrari achieved a top speed of 319kph.

In Jeddah, Ferrari achieved achieved a top speed of 330kph.

**gump1480** · 18th March 2024, 03:02

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

There wasn't any conservative engine mode in Saudi, they simply used a bit too much downforce. On every straight we were slower than the Red Bull. They brought a low DF RW but didn't use it.

I also think that the low ambient temperate is a hindrance for us. Charles struggled with the rear tyre warm up issue in qualifying and also during the race. As soon as the tyres were up to temperature, his pace was as good as the Red Bulls. But by then both Red Bulls were ahead and he had no one to challenge him from behind.

I know we went with high downforce setup, but I observed on live timing app we were continuously 4-5 kmph down on top speed of even Mclaren (after Lec cleared Norris) in free air. But in the last 10 laps or so Lec upped his pace to match the top speed of Mclaren and then last 2-3 laps he was well above the top speed of Mclaren in each sector and almost matching RedBull (within 3-4 kmph).

So definitely engine modes were at play. Also seeing Lec comments post race, we can see he hints that he didn't push after he had tire warming issues with medium and hard and realised he cannot match RedBulls.

P.S: Singapore will be very tough for us if we have this issue prevailing till then.

**gump1480** · 18th March 2024, 03:05

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

With regards to rear downforce, Ferrari removed a beam wing in Jeddah that they used in Bahrain.

I have the pics comparing both cars at both tracks with emphasis of the rear wings and beam wings.

In Bahrain, Ferrari achieved a top speed of 319kph.

In Jeddah, Ferrari achieved achieved a top speed of 330kph.

These top speeds are from Quali where the engine is at full beans. I think our engine is the strongest over a lap, even masking the obvious drag associated with high downforce config. I think we were only 3 kmph down on RedBulls in Quali, but as Lec mentioned in post-quali the car was losing all the time in traction dure to poor warmup of tires.

**jgonzalesm6** · 18th March 2024, 03:33

Originally Posted by gump1480

These top speeds are from Quali where the engine is at full beans. I think our engine is the strongest over a lap, even masking the obvious drag associated with high downforce config. I think we were only 3 kmph down on RedBulls in Quali, but as Lec mentioned in post-quali the car was losing all the time in traction dure to poor warmup of tires.

I have seen a graph of the drivers best 15 laps top speed.

Bearman reached 339kph during the race as his fastest.

Leclerc reached 334kph during the race as his fastest.

I also have a graph showing or comparing Bearman vs Leclerc and you can see Bearmans time closing in on Leclerc throughout the race....especially towards the end of the race.

**jgonzalesm6** · 18th March 2024, 03:37

Originally Posted by gump1480

I know we went with high downforce setup, but I observed on live timing app we were continuously 4-5 kmph down on top speed of even Mclaren (after Lec cleared Norris) in free air. But in the last 10 laps or so Lec upped his pace to match the top speed of Mclaren and then last 2-3 laps he was well above the top speed of Mclaren in each sector and almost matching RedBull (within 3-4 kmph).

So definitely engine modes were at play. Also seeing Lec comments post race, we can see he hints that he didn't push after he had tire warming issues with medium and hard and realised he cannot match RedBulls.

P.S: Singapore will be very tough for us if we have this issue prevailing till then.

Again, the graph that I am seeing during the race was Mclaren(Norris) was severely hampered to a draggy car and Ferrari was not slower than Mclaren according to the top speed of the drivers 15 laps that I observed.

It's quite a huge difference between Ferrari and Mclaren as the race is concerned.

**tifosi1993** · 18th March 2024, 09:26

Originally Posted by gump1480

I know we went with high downforce setup, but I observed on live timing app we were continuously 4-5 kmph down on top speed of even Mclaren (after Lec cleared Norris) in free air. But in the last 10 laps or so Lec upped his pace to match the top speed of Mclaren and then last 2-3 laps he was well above the top speed of Mclaren in each sector and almost matching RedBull (within 3-4 kmph).

So definitely engine modes were at play. Also seeing Lec comments post race, we can see he hints that he didn't push after he had tire warming issues with medium and hard and realised he cannot match RedBulls.

P.S: Singapore will be very tough for us if we have this issue prevailing till then.

Yeah, I was wrong about engine mode. Ferrari use mode: race during the races, which delivers optimal power. Charles for whatever reason, didn't use it as much as Bearman.

He struggled with the rear tyre warm issue, but as soon as the tyres got up to temperature and whenever he used mode: race, he was super competitive. His fastest lap is a testament of that, which was done in the final lap of the race on 43 laps old C2. (He did a 1"31.915 in the penultimate lap, so his fastest lap wasn't some fluke)

**tifosi1993** · 18th March 2024, 09:36

Originally Posted by gump1480

These top speeds are from Quali where the engine is at full beans. I think our engine is the strongest over a lap, even masking the obvious drag associated with high downforce config. I think we were only 3 kmph down on RedBulls in Quali, but as Lec mentioned in post-quali the car was losing all the time in traction dure to poor warmup of tires.

Yup, Ferrari ICE is strongest on the grid, plus the SF24 has good efficiency (but not as good as last year's SF23), so that top speed didn't say much. When Charles overtook Hamilton and Norris, he didn't go above 324.

A car with good downforce and minimal drag will gain big speed boost with the DRS. That's what Red Bull is doing with their car. People thought they were stalling the beam wing but that was just a myth. Ferrari removed the upper portion of beam wing but ran with the Bahrain-spec RW. They didn't use the 2023 SPA-spec low DF RW they brought in Saudi, and Jeddah is a low downforce track.

**Cavallino** · 19th March 2024, 02:33

Originally Posted by tifosi1993

Yeah, I was wrong about engine mode. Ferrari use mode: race during the races, which delivers optimal power. Charles for whatever reason, didn't use it as much as Bearman.

He struggled with the rear tyre warm issue, but as soon as the tyres got up to temperature and whenever he used mode: race, he was super competitive. His fastest lap is a testament of that, which was done in the final lap of the race on 43 laps old C2. (He did a 1"31.915 in the penultimate lap, so his fastest lap wasn't some fluke)

wasn't Bahrain cooler than normal as well?

another data point for poor tyre warm up is Leclerc's getaway off the line isn't as good as the RBs

**jgonzalesm6** · 19th March 2024, 06:07

Originally Posted by Cavallino

wasn't Bahrain cooler than normal as well?

another data point for poor tyre warm up is Leclerc's getaway off the line isn't as good as the RBs

What data point are you looking at? Leclerc had the 2nd best start in the race at Jeddah behind Perez who was 1st IF you're talking about Leclerc's start at Jeddah.

**Cavallino** · 19th March 2024, 17:05

Originally Posted by jgonzalesm6

What data point are you looking at? Leclerc had the 2nd best start in the race at Jeddah behind Perez who was 1st IF you're talking about Leclerc's start at Jeddah.

i'm nitpicking, it seemed to be a bit of an issue last season, Vegas springs to mind, and in Jeddah, i'm saying maybe he didn't have optimal tyre heat, because he didn't challenge Max going into turn 1 like in Bahrain.

and as you said, Jeddah had the caveat that Chico jumped the start