2024 USA (Miami) Grand Prix - Race

[ntukza]

Sainz receives a 5sec. time penalty and 1 point on his superlicense for the incident with Piastri.

Ah that sucks!

[Rishu]

Why can't they decide and announce this 5s penalty during the race? let the driver try and make up that gap. Stewards are indeed biased based on nationality

[Greig]

More like 30sec.

Max was 11sec behind Norris when Sargeant crashed.


Agreed if it was a Ferrari driver. This place would be in extreme mode.

Pretty sure pitting under SC conditions would cost you about 11 seconds the commentators said.

[jgonzalesm6]

Pretty sure pitting under SC conditions would cost you about 11 seconds the commentators said.

The SC made a mistake and picked up Verstappen as the leader instead of Norris thereby giving Norris a 30sec gap. The gap between Norris and Max was 11sec when Sargeant crahed.

[Greig]

The SC made a mistake and picked up Verstappen as the leader instead of Norris thereby giving Norris a 30sec gap. The gap between Norris and Max was 11sec when Sargeant crahed.

Yeah so like I said a stop under SC costs 11s so he would probably have been in the lead regardless.

[GoodtimesF1]

Sainz receives a 5sec. time penalty and 1 point on his superlicense for the incident with Piastri.

Great. Really feel bad for Carlos. He had a great start and was in second place until a torpedo ruined it for him. That torpedo than gets away with it no pernalty and the torpedo gets rewarded a position from the driver he almost took out at the beginning of the race...

[jgonzalesm6]

Yeah so like I said a stop under SC costs 11s so he would probably have been in the lead regardless.

So a 30sec gap by fault of the SC isn't a big deal? The Ferrari drivers too were affected by the mistake of the SC.

[Greig]

So a 30sec gap by fault of the SC isn't a big deal? The Ferrari drivers too were affected by the mistake of the SC.

Not sure you are understanding. Lando had the gap to come out ahead if there was a SC. How were the Ferrari drivers affected by it?

[jgonzalesm6]

Not sure you are understanding. Lando had the gap to come out ahead if there was a SC. How were the Ferrari drivers affected by it?

OH, I understand.

Did you see the tweets in post #141?



ALSO


Shame in Miami: FIA mistakes cast a bit of doubt over Norris' win


Nobody in the F1 paddock begrudged Lando Norris his first-ever victory in Formula 1, but fair is fair: the Briton was arguably not the driver who deserved the win in Miami. A massive blunder by the FIA meant Max Verstappen was denied the win. A look back at a string of mistakes by the safety car driver, German Bernd Mayländer.

The 28th and 29th laps of the race eventually proved key. Logan Sargeant and Kevin Magnussen collided, and the safety car was required. Norris held the lead at that point, as - unlike Verstappen - he had not yet been able to make a pit stop. However, the McLaren Briton did not come in as he realised just too late that the safety car was coming. This seemed to ruin Norris' chance to take advantage of the safety car.

Mayländer made a big mistake
12 seconds after the computer showed that the safety car was coming out, Norris crossed the start-finish line; again, just under five seconds later, he was at the end of the pit lane - where the safety car should normally have caught him. Driver Bernd Mayländer, however, had failed to catch Norris 17 seconds after race control had called the safety car into the track. On the face of it, 17 seconds would have been enough for that anyway, but okay. Then Mayländer made a huge mistake: instead of waiting at the side of the track for the next moment when Norris would pass start-finish, he picked up Max Verstappen.

The Dutchman - at that moment second in the race - had to ease off the throttle, while Norris could continue at higher speed AND was still offered the chance to make his pit stop. Ultimately, this was the key moment in the race: Norris could stay ahead again after his stop, on brand new tyres, to start from first place at the restart. After the safety car ended, he drove further and further away from Verstappen.

Norris is not to blame
The way Norris managed to drive away from the Red Bull driver in the latter part of the race is admirable. But Norris would never have been in front at the restart if the FIA had responded more adequately and better to the safety car situation. In that case, the Brit would have been sitting somewhere around seventh place at the time and - despite his speed - he would never have managed to catch Verstappen then.

Of course, Norris is not to blame at all. He did what any driver in his situation would have done: take full advantage of what was handed to him on a silver platter. But the FIA should be ashamed after so much incompetence in barely two minutes, with Bernd Mayländer at the centre of it: Was he not paying attention? Did he not realise that Norris was in the lead? A big blunder with equally huge consequences.


https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/27471...erstappen.html

[jgonzalesm6]

Also, according to Horner:

1) Max had floor damage caused by the bollard

2) Max lost two-and-a-half-tenths in T1 every lap.

[Greig]

OH, I understand.

Did you see the tweets in post #141?



ALSO


Shame in Miami: FIA mistakes cast a bit of doubt over Norris' win


Nobody in the F1 paddock begrudged Lando Norris his first-ever victory in Formula 1, but fair is fair: the Briton was arguably not the driver who deserved the win in Miami. A massive blunder by the FIA meant Max Verstappen was denied the win. A look back at a string of mistakes by the safety car driver, German Bernd Mayländer.

The 28th and 29th laps of the race eventually proved key. Logan Sargeant and Kevin Magnussen collided, and the safety car was required. Norris held the lead at that point, as - unlike Verstappen - he had not yet been able to make a pit stop. However, the McLaren Briton did not come in as he realised just too late that the safety car was coming. This seemed to ruin Norris' chance to take advantage of the safety car.

Mayländer made a big mistake
12 seconds after the computer showed that the safety car was coming out, Norris crossed the start-finish line; again, just under five seconds later, he was at the end of the pit lane - where the safety car should normally have caught him. Driver Bernd Mayländer, however, had failed to catch Norris 17 seconds after race control had called the safety car into the track. On the face of it, 17 seconds would have been enough for that anyway, but okay. Then Mayländer made a huge mistake: instead of waiting at the side of the track for the next moment when Norris would pass start-finish, he picked up Max Verstappen.

The Dutchman - at that moment second in the race - had to ease off the throttle, while Norris could continue at higher speed AND was still offered the chance to make his pit stop. Ultimately, this was the key moment in the race: Norris could stay ahead again after his stop, on brand new tyres, to start from first place at the restart. After the safety car ended, he drove further and further away from Verstappen.

Norris is not to blame
The way Norris managed to drive away from the Red Bull driver in the latter part of the race is admirable. But Norris would never have been in front at the restart if the FIA had responded more adequately and better to the safety car situation. In that case, the Brit would have been sitting somewhere around seventh place at the time and - despite his speed - he would never have managed to catch Verstappen then.

Of course, Norris is not to blame at all. He did what any driver in his situation would have done: take full advantage of what was handed to him on a silver platter. But the FIA should be ashamed after so much incompetence in barely two minutes, with Bernd Mayländer at the centre of it: Was he not paying attention? Did he not realise that Norris was in the lead? A big blunder with equally huge consequences.


https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/27471...erstappen.html

LOL Still fails to recognise Lando had the gap to pit under SC and come out ahead of Max no matter who the SC picked up.

[JPZ]

Charles 😔
Disappointing but somehow not surprising.

Seriously?

[tifosi1993]

Before the SC got called, Norris was 11 seconds ahead of Max and 14 Seconds ahead of Charles. When the SC picked Max instead of Norris, the gap between the pair grew up to 35 seconds, when Norris entered the pit. So basically not being picked up by SC gave Norris 24 seconds advantage over the rest of the field, at least.

Had the SC picked Norris first, it would've been a disaster for him. Under the SC he would've been considerable slower and those behind would've caught up with him easily. He would've been any positions between P7-P10 after his pitstop.

F1 cars are considerably faster than the SC even under the VSC/SC delta. By not getting picked up by the SC gave him the lead with fresh rubbers, had it not been the case, the race would've been quite different and much more difficult for him, as he would've been forced to overtake at least 6 cars to get the lead.

[tifosi1993]

Lap 29, under the SC:

Norris: 2:13.364 with pit stop

Max: 2:26.519 behind the SC

Charles: 2:25.594 behind the SC

So, it is quite clear the advantage Norris gained by not getting picked up the SC. It enabled him to go from P5 to P1 with zero overtakes on track.

[FerrariF60]

Lap 29, under the SC:

Norris: 2:13.364 with pit stop

Max: 2:26.519 behind the SC

Charles: 2:25.594 behind the SC

So, it is quite clear the advantage Norris gained by not getting picked up the SC. It enabled him to go from P5 to P1 with zero overtakes on track.

so it's clear then.....but i think Greig is still not sure about that....LOL. always arguing for no reason....again....LOL

[jgonzalesm6]

so it's clear then.....but i think Greig is still not sure about that....LOL. always arguing for no reason....again....LOL

He lives in his own little world......he's "always" right while everyone else is wrong no matter what evidence you bring to the table that doesn't correspond to his own mindset.

[nani_s23]

Why can't they decide and announce this 5s penalty during the race? let the driver try and make up that gap. Stewards are indeed biased based on nationality

For me Perez on Lap1 should have got the penalty. That was dangerous, he could have taken 2 or 3 cars in a single lap & joining back on track dangerously with faster cars around.

[jgonzalesm6]

For me Perez on Lap1 should have got the penalty. That was dangerous, he could have taken 2 or 3 cars in a single lap & joining back on track dangerously with faster cars around.

He didn't hit anyone. He was very close to knocking out his own teammate. He followed Lewis's move during the Sprint Race but obviously with more speed. It was an idiot move imo from Perez.

[tifosi1993]

For me Perez on Lap1 should have got the penalty. That was dangerous, he could have taken 2 or 3 cars in a single lap & joining back on track dangerously with faster cars around.

Unfortunately, the lack of common-sense prevalent in F1 stewarding. It's like saying someone swung a knife at you but missed, so he shouldn't be punished.

I think F1 stewarding is one of the rear fields where having an AI would be hugely beneficial. Get rid of these idiots who need 5 hours or more to reach a simple decision and let the AI handle the situation.

[Greig]

He lives in his own little world......he's "always" right while everyone else is wrong no matter what evidence you bring to the table that doesn't correspond to his own mindset.

If people can't grasp that Lando had enough of a gap to come out in the lead regardless of who the SC picked up then not my problem. The SC came at a perfect time for him and his laps after Perez pitted were faster than everyone else, if you can't accept that then so be it. He had enough of a gap to remain in the lead when the SC was called, prove me wrong.

I get you are angry your Red Bull team got beaten.

[Hornet]

Not to take anything away from Lando's brilliant drive, but I think the McLaren's upgrade is really bringing positive results here. They were genuinely fast last weekend.

Of course I dont think they can suddenly beat Max consistently now, but I think we are up for some challenging times against them.
Lets hope our own upgrades would yield great results too.

[Cavallino]

He lives in his own little world......he's "always" right while everyone else is wrong no matter what evidence you bring to the table that doesn't correspond to his own mindset.

i'm not sure i follow the safety car picking people up logic.

I saw the safety car graphic, and instantly figured out how the top 3 would finish... so it must not have mattered...

[jgonzalesm6]

i'm not sure i follow the safety car picking people up logic.

I saw the safety car graphic, and instantly figured out how the top 3 would finish... so it must not have mattered...

If you can't get it after the evidence of myself and others have presented, I'm sorry, I can't help you.

[Cavallino]

Unfortunately, the lack of common-sense prevalent in F1 stewarding. It's like saying someone swung a knife at you but missed, so he shouldn't be punished.

I think F1 stewarding is one of the rear fields where having an AI would be hugely beneficial. Get rid of these idiots who need 5 hours or more to reach a simple decision and let the AI handle the situation.

this.

so if sainz let's piastri hit him instead of taking avoiding action, does Piastri then get the penalty?

it wasn't a dive bomb sainz was entitled to his space at that point.

to me the successful pass and the first pass are the same, the difference was Sainz had the awareness to let himself get pushed off and avoid contact, piastri did not, and thereby triggered a penalty.

[Cavallino]

Norris was never going to get picked up by the safety car, he was going to pit obviously. Mylander waits at pit exit, even by taking a pit stop, Norris will be first to Mylander because everyone else is driving at safety car speeds.

the reason Norris' laptime is quicker is because he was farther along on the lap since he was in front, and did less time at safety car speeds on that particular lap

[Cavallino]

If you can't get it after the evidence of myself and others have presented, I'm sorry, I can't help you.

so when you saw the safety car graphic, you thought Norris would finish behind Piastri? really?

[Greig]

If you can't get it after the evidence of myself and others have presented, I'm sorry, I can't help you.

Commentry said 11s loss pitting under SC conditions, he was over 11s ahead when SC was deployed. It makes no difference if he gained 20s in his inlap he would STILL have been ahead even if it was 0.1s ahead instead of 10s ahead it mattered not the SC bunched them up, he had track position.

[Greig]

Norris gets a cheap pit stop......10secs at least. SC Plays into his hands.

[jgonzalesm6]

That was during the race. No one saw Bernd Mylander make the mistake of picking up Max instead of Norris which is why after the race I posted those tweets and the article as further evidence.

What do you got. Your word?....Oh okay.

[Greig]

That was during the race. No one saw Bernd Mylander make the mistake of picking up Max instead of Norris which is why after the race I posted those tweets and the article as further evidence.

What do you got. Your word?....Oh okay.

He had the time to be ahead no matter what the SC done, are you still missing this point?

A bitter Max fan article is not evidence.