2025 Chinese Grand Prix - Race

[Alfa159]

Listen up dummy, when I wrote that Charles was the fastest guy on track, with damage.

Called people panty wetters because they had an opinion before the race. How did the race work out for you??? 😂

[Greig]

Called people panty wetters because they had an opinion before the race. How did the race work out for you??? 

If Ferrari not having a good race makes you happy, glad you enjoyed it.

[aroutis]

bordering immature

Not just borderline.

[PURE PASSION]

�� Ferrari: The SF-25's flaws are no longer a mystery. It's impossible to take risks with the setup; there are significant limitations (not easy to resolve). It was a hot week at Maranello, and Loïc Serra is working to anticipate updates in Bahrain.

- The board's additional fuel consumption isn't a cause but a consequence. The rear axle structure doesn't provide the expected rigidity, requiring increased height in parc fermé to protect itself with 100 kg on board. The prime suspect is the rear suspension, homologated in July of last year, as well as the new gearbox. Haas shares the engine and has performed well since the Australian disaster, but it lacks the Ferrari's performance load platform or sophisticated aerodynamics.

- In other words, the SF-25 suffers from a "too soft" setup that compromises its operating window. This resembles something we've already seen, for example, on the old Mercedes last year. Ferrari, in the right conditions, can generate much more power than the previous car. The sprint showed what the car could do with 35 kg of fuel. Qualifying after three hours again shattered expectations, with less downforce in the corners and more instability at the rear.

- Loïc Serra arrived in October, so relatively late in the 2025 project. The French technical director has returned to Maranello and is working to improve efficiency and reliability, but it is clearly too early to formulate a solution or timetable.

- The problem isn't easy to solve; the engineers are also working on some areas of updating with new parts for Bahrain.

(autoracer.it/it/ferrari-sf2…)

[RossTheBoss]

Theory time...

I couldn't stop thinking about what happened during these two weeks and something occurred to me. What if the the first rumour about the raising the car in Australia due to plank wear was true? We were lightning fast on Friday in Australia before we decided to rise the car up. Then we were similarly fast in the sprint quali and the sprint this weekend. We know we made changes to the setup between sprint and the race qualifying. What if the changes were to make the plank last the whole race, because it's much longer than the sprint? So in the sprint we could run the car lower, meaning we were faster, while still have enough plank left. We then raised the car for the race (and therfore quali as well due to parc ferme) and became slower because of that, to survive the full race distance. But we tried to not lose as much as in Australia, so we misjudged and and didn't jack it up high enough.

Remember, the car is not as full of fuel during sprint as it is for the full grand prix, so the plank abuse seems to take place at the beginning of the grand prix, when the car is at its heaviest on fuel.

Keep in mind that both cars were DSQ for different reasons. Leclerc did not have an issue with his plank.

If I had to guess, Ham was running a slightly softer setting on the shocks than Leclerc, and suffered more rebound on the surface as a result. If Leclerc used a stiffer suspension, he'd be kinder on his tires and the plank.

I agree with, Cheeseman. The race pace is there. The car is not an SF-23. It needs some tweaks, and to be played with to find its mojo. Mercedes and Red Bull have had their share of **** the bed moments in the past few years, so it's cut the team a little slack. If they're still looking like clowns by Bahrain, then we can dogpile on them.

[Cheeseman]

Oh I would've watched that race too, but it's lost from my memory.


That's a fantastic anecdote! Isn't he a Marlow boy?

The barge boards on the Ferrari's were deemed too small and both Schumacher and Irvine disqualified. Michael had just come back after breaking his legs and, if I remember correctly, dominated the race but gave Eddie the win to help his championship fight. Anyway, Ferrari managed to fight the case and it was overturned.

Ross lives/lived in Stoke Row which is in that vicinity of Henley and Marlow. There was another guy who we installed a plasma TV and surround sound system for in Stoke Row, back in the late 90s. He worked for a few F1 teams. Most notably Tyrrel. He had a huge barn on his property with a 3 classic Ferrari's sitting under car covers. There was a Tyrrel front wing mounted on the wall, a few F1 wheels standing around, Tyrrelengine covers etc. I can remember his name for the life of me. I hung around with his son for a while too but his name escapes me as well

[Cheeseman]

Yeah I don't think we are all bad, we need to improve for sure but we are not miles away from the front. A double header to start the season gave us no real time to change much. We will see some improvement for Suzuka I believe.

Exactly. This time last year it looked like Max was just going to walk away with the championship again but by Miami it all changed.

[jgonzalesm6]

The barge boards on the Ferrari's were deemed too small and both Schumacher and Irvine disqualified. Michael had just come back after breaking his legs and, if I remember correctly, dominated the race but gave Eddie the win to help his championship fight. Anyway, Ferrari managed to fight the case and it was overturned.

Ross lives/lived in Stoke Row which is in that vicinity of Henley and Marlow. There was another guy who we installed a plasma TV and surround sound system for in Stoke Row, back in the late 90s. He worked for a few F1 teams. Most notably Tyrrel. He had a huge barn on his property with a 3 classic Ferrari's sitting under car covers. There was a Tyrrel front wing mounted on the wall, a few F1 wheels standing around, Tyrrelengine covers etc. I can remember his name for the life of me. I hung around with his son for a while too but his name escapes me as well

The bargeboards at the 99 Malaysia GP were legal. It was the FIA's issue with measuring the bargeboards that made both Ferrari cars illegal. The FIA was at fault and not Ferrari.

[Cavallino]

Theory time...

I couldn't stop thinking about what happened during these two weeks and something occurred to me. What if the the first rumour about the raising the car in Australia due to plank wear was true? We were lightning fast on Friday in Australia before we decided to rise the car up. Then we were similarly fast in the sprint quali and the sprint this weekend. We know we made changes to the setup between sprint and the race qualifying. What if the changes were to make the plank last the whole race, because it's much longer than the sprint? So in the sprint we could run the car lower, meaning we were faster, while still have enough plank left. We then raised the car for the race (and therfore quali as well due to parc ferme) and became slower because of that, to survive the full race distance. But we tried to not lose as much as in Australia, so we misjudged and and didn't jack it up high enough.

good post

yeah, I think it's safe to conclude the car wasn't raised because of the gearbox. And that's a good thing.

And like someone else said, don't forget the cars were disqualified for different reasons.

So a problem like this can be solved with setup and aero updates.

And that was the whole point of changing 95% of the concept. In theory, our updates should be bigger, more consistent, and more frequent.

[Cavallino]

Ok so sometimes life sucks, simple as that.
To me it is clear as day, Team tried different things on each driver, for lewis they ran the car lower ergo the plank wear and DQ, on Charles they went a bit higher setup , however they went one stop and that made the car JUST a bit lighter and it got DQ again.
However , we can either sob in the corner like toddlers or we can get something useful from this and move on.
Apparently running lower the car apart from damaging the car , also was not optimal (refering to the running pace). As for Charles, that was a major screwup. They could have pitted him even before Max got to him, he would 've been behind lewis with fresh mediums (I believe there was a set) and with the number of laps left he could get by and at least hold position, and at the very least not get DQ.

However... we're in dire need of upgrades and probably some sort of redesign. Folks at the factory are sure to be losing sleep over this.

great words as always mate

[Cavallino]

just let me get this straight though

so, i'm allowed to drive an entire race, and steal a win, with an obviously illegal rear wing, that was banned right after, no problem. Because the FIA wants the races to be decided on track.

but as soon as i'm a kilo overweight, or a mm down on my plank, when i'm finishing 6th, instant disqualification?

[Kyss4k]

�� Ferrari: The SF-25's flaws are no longer a mystery. It's impossible to take risks with the setup; there are significant limitations (not easy to resolve). It was a hot week at Maranello, and Loïc Serra is working to anticipate updates in Bahrain.

- The board's additional fuel consumption isn't a cause but a consequence. The rear axle structure doesn't provide the expected rigidity, requiring increased height in parc fermé to protect itself with 100 kg on board. The prime suspect is the rear suspension, homologated in July of last year, as well as the new gearbox. Haas shares the engine and has performed well since the Australian disaster, but it lacks the Ferrari's performance load platform or sophisticated aerodynamics.

- In other words, the SF-25 suffers from a "too soft" setup that compromises its operating window. This resembles something we've already seen, for example, on the old Mercedes last year. Ferrari, in the right conditions, can generate much more power than the previous car. The sprint showed what the car could do with 35 kg of fuel. Qualifying after three hours again shattered expectations, with less downforce in the corners and more instability at the rear.

- Loïc Serra arrived in October, so relatively late in the 2025 project. The French technical director has returned to Maranello and is working to improve efficiency and reliability, but it is clearly too early to formulate a solution or timetable.

- The problem isn't easy to solve; the engineers are also working on some areas of updating with new parts for Bahrain.

(autoracer.it/it/ferrari-sf2…)

So yeah, my theory seems to be correct. That sucks...

[Cavallino]

So yeah, my theory seems to be correct. That sucks...

you're getting there, keep it up

[aroutis]

just let me get this straight though

so, i'm allowed to drive an entire race, and steal a win, with an obviously illegal rear wing, that was banned right after, no problem. Because the FIA wants the races to be decided on track.

but as soon as i'm a kilo overweight, or a mm down on my plank, when i'm finishing 6th, instant disqualification?

Charles was underweight which gives unfair advantage so yes it's an instaban.
As for the plank that rule is ancient and again an instaban.

[PURE PASSION]

Ι had a discussion with some countrymen of mine on a group we have and someone told me that there a strange scenario about this 2 races.
I find it a bit extreme but who knows!!!??
It is that Ferrari have the most changes in the car and especially with the new front suspension and that the 3 days in Bahrain was not enough to test the full range of set up changes , ride height etc . So they made a decision to use the 1st 2 races like some kind of test and keep working on more extreme set-up to have full knowledge about the car.
And that on the next race together with some updates they will be capable of fully exploit the capabilities of the car !!!??
Again I also find it extreme and more like wishful thinking but ....

[Brembo]

I can only hope Sr Lewis will not be "Masitzed !: and will be treated fairly !

[tifosi1993]

The main problem is, they can't get the basics right. Plank wear would've been excusable in 2022 when ground effect was introduced, not in 2025.

[Cavallino]

The main problem is, they can't get the basics right. Plank wear would've been excusable in 2022 when ground effect was introduced, not in 2025.

same was true last year, when the midseason update reintroduced pourposing.

[PaulV10]

Races are more boring and boring and boring....

Hi Stefa,
take away need to run two compounds, take away DRS, bring back re-fueling.....!

[PaulV10]

Hards again? why not medium.

My thoughts exactly, more grip in corners and whats to lose, smacks of Binnotti esque decision making to me.

[PaulV10]

could be as simple as hype, hype & image momentum. not all F1 fans are petrol heads.

[jgonzalesm6]

So, 2nd race of the season and here are the standings compared to 2024:

2024
- Sainz 14pts
- Leclerc 17pts

Total points for the race = 31pts
Cumulative total after 2 races = 75 pts

2025
- Leclerc 4 pts (sprint)
- Hamilton 8 pts (sprint)

Both drivers DSQ for the race

Total points for the race(sprint) = 12 pts
Cumulative total after 2 races = 17 pts

[PaulV10]

Common, let’s not THAT carried away

Will have to TOTALLY disagree with that statement, both cars had been "done over" we assume with FV` knowledge. Still shaking down 25 car yes...! And still looking for clues.

[PaulV10]

win as a team, lose as a team. Lewis mantra.

[jgonzalesm6]

[Formula Data Analysis]

This is Ferrari’s worst start of a season since 2009

Just 17 points after 2 races (and a Sprint, too!) 5th in the WCC, just 3 points in front of Ferrari-engined Haas.

For comparison, the undrivable and underpowered F14-T scored 30 points
The terrible SF1000? 19 points

The SF-25 is much better than those cars, yet the team’s performance as a whole has been worse.

[racingbradley]

No need to panic yet. Back in 2003 Michael began the season with 3 poor races....4th, 6th & a DNF in Brazil. It wasn't until April 20th when he won his first race of the season.
He and Ferrari went on to win both championships that year.
Maybe a bad start to the season is not a bad omen.

[FerrariF60]

No need to panic yet. Back in 2003 Michael began the season with 3 poor races....4th, 6th & a DNF in Brazil. It wasn't until April 20th when he won his first race of the season.
He and Ferrari went on to win both championships that year.
Maybe a bad start to the season is not a bad omen.

You can’t compare 2003 with 2025 by saying that we had a pretty bad start and we went to win championships that year.
Back then we had a DREAM TEAM, Ross brawn, Jean Todt…etc, etc, and not to mention we were running that car testing in Fiorano 24/7 and it was easy to develop and make the car quicker

Nowadays we’re crippled that way and most often then not have issues with wind tunnel, simulator…etc not corellating things properly


We’ll see how fast Ferrari will recover from this

[Brembo]

The main help in 2003 Ferrari team was Rubens ! Let Shumy pass!!

[Cavallino]

You can’t compare 2003 with 2025 by saying that we had a pretty bad start and we went to win championships that year.
Back then we had a DREAM TEAM, Ross brawn, Jean Todt…etc, etc, and not to mention we were running that car testing in Fiorano 24/7 and it was easy to develop and make the car quicker

Nowadays we’re crippled that way and most often then not have issues with wind tunnel, simulator…etc not corellating things properly


We’ll see how fast Ferrari will recover from this

i'm sick of everytime someone references a previous season, the response being "you can't compare"

well, what about last year, when the midseason update brought porpoising and we were nowhere for 5 races, and then boom! right at the front!

is that recent enough?

if we brought last year's car and were where we are now, we'd be in trouble, even if we are where Mercedes is, we'd be in trouble.

but with a brand new concept, and the glimmers of pace we've seen, i think there is cause for a lot of optimism

[Greig]

Did we not start the 2003 season with a modified F2002 also?

We could compare last year or any year but they really don't matter as it's about what we do this year.