KERS and the bulls

[ferrari1.8t]

They talk about going green, but then they have teams spend all this money on a technology that won't be used the next season. F1 is entering into a sad state, on top of this add the proposed green engines. Maybe RB will find a loophole around the green engines and leave the one they have now while we all go smaller, lol.

[Greig]

If they are not running KERS then they will have to add the ballast, and I am sure the ballast is now no longer free to move around but is now governed by the FIA where the ballast can be placed in order to stop someone not running KERS get an advantage, there is no way they ran lighter than the 640k min weight, all cars will be weighing more or less the same.

If they are not running KERS then it's not a loophole, its not mandatory, we can run without it also.

[CF22]

They talk about going green, but then they have teams spend all this money on a technology that won't be used the next season. F1 is entering into a sad state, on top of this add the proposed green engines. Maybe RB will find a loophole around the green engines and leave the one they have now while we all go smaller, lol.

I don't think they'll keep the Renault engine, lol. I do think the step down should be to all teams running a 6-cylinder turbo and make it as efficient as possible, of course I would prefer we keep the V8's but allow major modifications for 2013. Whatever happens it is not set in stone and I really doubt Ferrari will fall to using a 4-cylinder.

[Hermann]

If they are not running KERS then they will have to add the ballast, and I am sure the ballast is now no longer free to move around but is now governed by the FIA where the ballast can be placed in order to stop someone not running KERS get an advantage, there is no way they ran lighter than the 640k min weight, all cars will be weighing more or less the same.

If they are not running KERS then it's not a loophole, its not mandatory, we can run without it also.

I don't know if they have to put the ballast on a certain place. Is it somewhere in the FIA rules? Could you find a source?

Anyway, if the 'big teams' agreed to use it and RB is not, they must have a good reason. For Ferrari, if they built the car with the whole package fitting to the use of Kers, it won't help them to take it out. I think.

[racingbradley]

.
KERS was agreed to be used by all FOTA teams though with the exception of the new teams, more like a gentleman's agreement and Red Bull have once again breached this, not sportsmanlike at all. Of course the FIA goes and DQ's the Saubers but lets the "world champions" get away with it.

That is so unfair even though we gained by their DQ. I feel sorry for a team who gives it their all with limited cash!
As for RB they instigated the DD debacle back in 2009. Then FIA deem it legal. Surely that cannot happen this time!!!!!

[Italian Spirit]

http://en.espnf1.com/fia/motorsport/story/43949.html

Not that I especially like Old Man Bernie, but the nice thing about him is that he doesn't give a damn about the politically correct approach.

Maybe the following article has already been discussed around here, anyhow I think it fits nicely the KERS question.

Enjoy!

'Todt is a poor man's Mosley' - Ecclestone

Bernie Ecclestone has launched a verbal attack on FIA president Jean Todt and once again slammed plans to introduce four cylinder engines to Formula One.

Ecclestone said Todt does not stack up to his predecessor Max Mosley, who the F1 CEO has been very close to for several decades.

"Jean Todt is a poor man's Max," he told the Daily Express. "He has been travelling around the world doing what Max didn't do too much - kissing the babies and shaking the hands. It is probably good for the FIA but we don't need it in Formula One."

Ecclestone has taken a particular dislike to the FIA's decision to replace the current V8 engines in F1 with smaller capacity turbo-charged units, which he describes as a "complete joke". He added: "It's not Formula One - it doesn't sound anything like Formula One".

He singled out KERS, which is returning to the sport this year after it flopped in 2009, as an example of a green technology that has little relevance to F1.

"It has just cost an awful lot of money and I don't know what it has proven," he said. "I don't think anyone knows or cares what it is or what it does. I get upset with these things."

He said it was proof that F1's financial stakeholders, such as the teams and Formula One Management, should have dictate the regulations rather than the FIA.

"We should write the rules with the teams," he said. "The competitors have got to race and have got a big investment. We have got a big investment. We should write the rules, give them to the FIA and they should make sure they are followed. It should be like the police - the police don't write the rules and say you've got to do 30mph. The FIA is a joke."

Not that my opinion matters, but (for once!) I agree with Old Bernie on every word.

Everybody is welcome to cast his vote.

[Hermann]

Such things like dq-ing the Saubers always look like a diversionary tactic to me. Its like 'look, we are on alert, so don't say we let others get away with something!'

And for once i agree with Bernie 100%.

[xpman]

be intresting to see what the ferrari is like without Kers if its faster and better handling then there is still a big problem , also at then race Eddie asked Hornor bloke about it and to me he said something intresting ...was along the lines that Newey did not want it as it effect the design.

[Hermann]

be intresting to see what the ferrari is like without Kers if its faster and better handling then there is still a big problem , also at then race Eddie asked Hornor bloke about it and to me he said something intresting ...was along the lines that Newey did not want it as it effect the design.

Exactly what i thought (and posted on page 1)

[Nova]

Once the flag falls, me thinks gentlemans agreement goes out the door...
I wouldve liked to see Ferrari take this approach, a bit more cutting edge
than conservative...once again we are behind and have to work to catch up..
instead of working to stay ahead, or even...even...
This kers, green bs is simply that...bs..

[Nova]

Id like to add, or ask..why is Ferrari so hellbent on using this system???
If ya dont gotta use it..dont...I think putting the development time and money into
new exhaust/gases and aero wouldve been much more beneficial..

[Greig]

Ferrari are maybe too nice these days, no limits pushed, no grey area's looked at.

[Grillo]

Ferrari are maybe too nice these days, no limits pushed, no grey area's looked at.

This!

[CF22]

If the wording on this article is correct I think it might explain why they were so fast, and once again bending the rules and being sneaky about it, this plus the flexing wing should equal complete DISQUALIFICATION. According to Horner, they ran KERS on Friday practice and were not satisfied, so they simply took it off:

"We haven't had KERS on at all this weekend," said Horner. "We didn't want to tell anybody, but looking at the start ... It didn't look like we needed it.

"We were a bit nervous about telling everybody before the race. We ran it on Friday and we weren't happy with the reliability, we felt it was a potential risk, so we took it off both cars and didn't race it at all this weekend."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/90275

[Greig]

I don't think they are being sneaky about it, there is no obligation to tell the grid what you are running. If they felt it was not reliable then it's their call to take it off and run without it, we can do the same.

[CF22]

But what about the weight of the car, and the ballast? I suppose these are not added on just like that during the race weekend.

[Greig]

All the cars are weighed so they will be within the weight limit, they ran KERS on Friday then took it out replacing it with ballast to make up the required weight as all cars are underweight (well should be)

[Effone]

Its quite depressing to think how fast they are and if they enabled KERS they'd have another 4-5 tenths a lap. damn

[Greig]

Its quite depressing to think how fast they are and if they enabled KERS they'd have another 4-5 tenths a lap. damn

Not really, it was posted on here earlier that said they are slower with it due to the need to change gear ratios and the brake balance.

[sagi58]

If they are not running KERS then they will have to add the ballast, and I am sure the ballast is now no longer free to move around but is now governed by the FIA where the ballast can be placed in order to stop someone not running KERS get an advantage, there is no way they ran lighter than the 640k min weight, all cars will be weighing more or less the same.

If they are not running KERS then it's not a loophole, its not mandatory, we can run without it also.

Could they have built two cars? One with KERS and one without?

Ferrari are maybe too nice these days, no limits pushed, no grey area's looked at.

p.s. Does this coincide with Domenicali's "reign"?

[Fiondella]

Well we were talking about this subject at the end of last season. I find it difficult to believe that Ferrari didn't look at the possibility of running without KERS!

[Nova]

Ferrari are maybe too nice these days, no limits pushed, no grey area's looked at.

Totally agree...
Its not that RB are cheating, or are doing anything inappropriate, they are simply exploring
all of their options...and being rather quick at the same time..

[LeonKennedy]

Not really, it was posted on here earlier that said they are slower with it due to the need to change gear ratios and the brake balance.

It would still give to them 2-3 tenths, or else everyone would run with it "turned off".

[Nova]

I don't think they are being sneaky about it, there is no obligation to tell the grid what you are running. If they felt it was not reliable then it's their call to take it off and run without it, we can do the same.

Totally agree...again....I think that as long as they are faster, they will not run it...
And no one has answered my question...which is probably everyones question...mabey..why is Ferrari so hell bent on using kers?
It stunk in 09, n I see no reason to mess with a failed design...again.

[FerrariF60]

I find it difficult to believe that Ferrari didn't look at the possibility of running without KERS!

i'm pretty sure it crossed their (FERRARI) mind in NOT running it or designing the car without KERS, but since ALL teams in the FOTA group had the gentelmans agreement to run KERS for 2011 it only make sense and be FAIR (magic word here) to design a car around KERS and run it throughout the year.

i'm pretty sure Ferrari will be quite vocal about it in the coming days and if this continues (red fools not running it) they may even try running without it in friday practice and see what the benefit is....I WOULD SAY THIS WOULD ONLY BE FAIR, WOULDN'T YOU?????

[Grillo]

Could they have built two cars? One with KERS and one without?

I said Ferrari to do that last autumn. Not two completely different cars but two completely different packages on for races where KERS could make the difference, long straights etc., and one for races where the key was aerodynamics alone, suspension, weight distribution, etc.

Monaco, does it make any difference to wear KERS there? Are not suspensions and weight distribution more important?
Hungaroring, is there any point on wearing KERS? Spa and Monza, I assume KERS could make the difference there, right?
Valencia? Silverstone? Canada? Some tracks are obvious KERS candidates and others are not obvious but they should be ready to run both configurations.

[Forzi]

It just goes to show, that Red Bull is nothing more that a drink company. No respect for an agreement that was made by all, nor knowing how to act as winners.

[Grillo]

Well we were talking about this subject at the end of last season. I find it difficult to believe that Ferrari didn't look at the possibility of running without KERS!

I guess they think KERS don't make any harm anywhere.

Of course I don't agree with that as we saw what happened in 2009.

[zeus2]

Well we were talking about this subject at the end of last season. I find it difficult to believe that Ferrari didn't look at the possibility of running without KERS!

Probably why I half believe the current team of people are a little too 'gentlemanly' about gentleman's agreements. The only person that gets shafted in a gentleman's agreement is the gentleman.. Having said that I still think Domenicalli is the right guy for the job that he's doing, what we're lacking is someone a little more on the extreme side to balance him out.

[Greig]

It would still give to them 2-3 tenths, or else everyone would run with it "turned off".

We might well see that, as we did last time KERS was around, its not about turning it off, its about not having it on the car altogether.

If it gives them 2-3 tenths then you can bet it would be running on the car, no team throws that sort of time away just for the sake of it.