Red Bull’s traction secret revealed?

[Sha1]

I have posted below reply in FIA thread aswell...

As much as i would love them to be kicked out from cheating, they will not. Past 4 years they have passed all loads tests, scrutineering. We had flexi wings, illegal, but we passed the load tests. If RBR were running T/C it would of been found out. All ECUs checked, all data checked. Look what happened the other year at Hockenhiem, they got found out. A map was reducing torque to much.

It is not bashing the team, last thing i and many other would do. But, we must take our hats off to them for doing better job, developing and designing CFD alot better than all of us. We have witnessed a team at their peak. As we were 1999-2004. We know how hard it is to stay at this level, thats why now, im saying well done to them. And up to us, next year to step up and make the performance gains with the new rules they have done with these rules.

End of day, whats happening is happening, and this sort of team dominance doesnt come along that often, it hurts, alot but what can we do? Call them cheats, boo them, for what? FIA isnt going to suddenly strip them of all WDC WCCs just because we, Mclaren and rest of F1 world/fans are calling for it. They have out done us all.

But that's the whole point, they haven't earned their spot at that level. It's being handed to them. They were crying like babies about the tires and the whole Mercedes test thing, which is fine because Mercedes did blatantly cheat (Ross Brawn in action). But now that everything has been changed to go their way again, they seem to be keeping nice and quiet. I remember earlier in the year when Newey openly criticized Merc on Sky - how hypocritical is that?

Give any competent leader boat loads of money and a political stranglehold on the sport, and they could do what Red Bull is doing any day. I'm not coming out and openly bashing them because I understand that that's how F1 works, but at the same time I'm not going to sit by and congratulate them like some of you on here. If you guys and girls think they've actually earned their success, then you really don't know what you're watching, unless of course you consider 'paying for success' the equivalent of earning it.

[FrankAlfa]

++++1 Agree!

[Greig]

I see many people wish to be "Blind" to what has occurred in Formula One over the past 4 years regarding the Governing Body of Formula One. That is fine. I have no point to prove to these people. I will Continue to post my opinion and do my best to respect others.

You say we are blind yet you post nothing that has any sort of evidence to help us see so yes you do have a point to prove to us people who don't believe your posts. So it's only been the past 4 years that the FIA have cheated everyone to help Red Bull? Again you will have to tell us why Red Bull dominating is a)good for the show b)makes the FIA/Bernie money.

Bernie makes his money from TV deals and tracks, so again I ask you why having one team dominating makes the sport more appealing to new tracks and to TV deals when viewing figures fall when there is a domination (as we see now with Red Bull and with Ferrari in the past). So if you can tell us this then maybe your points will be taken more seriously rather than just posting Red Bull cheat, FIA want Red Bull money and Bernie etc etc.

[FrankAlfa]

This Directed DIRECTLY to Greig : I will not DEBATE the issues any more with YOU! I and many others have clearly defined the what has been happening for the past 4 years! I am done engaging YOU in dialog on this matter! Enjoy the racing!

[Greig]

@ Greig,

Just Cool it! Enough with your Direct Dialog toward Me! We do not agree on the matter so lets just agree to disagree!

I am tired of YOU bashing Ferrari and how they are no good! All I keep hearing from you is Red Bull are the BEST and THEY are doing Everything By the Book and there is No Way Red Bull can possibly be doing anything illegal! You have defended Red Bull like only a Red Bull FAN does! Enough is Enough! You also refuse to acknowledge the Clear Breaking of the Rules and No Penalties being handed out the Red Bull Team over the past few years that have directly influenced the Constructor's and Driver's Championships! Then we have this years most recently Tires Testing Ban Scandal in which the Mercedes team recieved little or no penalty! If you don't like the Ferrari Team and you LOVE the RED BULL TEAM that much, then join them?

I am bashing Ferrari? So Alonso and Stefano are bashing Ferrari by saying Red Bull have done a better job? Maybe you are in denial and want to have a little tantrum and blame everything and everyone for Ferrari not winning but I would just rather respect the job Red Bull have done and wish that we raised our game to challenge them rather then cry cheat as you are doing.

When we dominated the sport we fans took a whole lot of cheating accusations and at that time my mantra was it was up to the others to stop us, not the FIA. And that remains the same and it's up to us to stop Red Bull not whine and cry about them. Telling me to join Red Bull really shows your maturity, if you can't have respect for our rivals then so be it but don't try and tell me I don't support Ferrari.

[Greig]

This Directed DIRECTLY to Greig : I will not DEBATE the issues any more with YOU! I and many others have clearly defined the what has been happening for the past 4 years! I am done engaging YOU in dialog on this matter! Enjoy the racing!

So you have NO answer to back up your embarrassing claims, thought as much.

[FrankAlfa]

I see you wish to be ABUSIVE on this Site and continue to "TAUNT" and be "DISRESPECTFUL"! Stop the Taunting and just enjoy the racing!

[Rob]

But that's the whole point, they haven't earned their spot at that level. It's being handed to them. They were crying like babies about the tires and the whole Mercedes test thing, which is fine because Mercedes did blatantly cheat (Ross Brawn in action). But now that everything has been changed to go their way again, they seem to be keeping nice and quiet. I remember earlier in the year when Newey openly criticized Merc on Sky - how hypocritical is that?

Give any competent leader boat loads of money and a political stranglehold on the sport, and they could do what Red Bull is doing any day. I'm not coming out and openly bashing them because I understand that that's how F1 works, but at the same time I'm not going to sit by and congratulate them like some of you on here. If you guys and girls think they've actually earned their success, then you really don't know what you're watching, unless of course you consider 'paying for success' the equivalent of earning it.

I openly congratulate team work. What have they bought? Bernie can not make or change rules, he cannt go to FIA and say turn down everyones ECUs and pull a fuse in the wind tunnels of RBRs rivals for $$$$$$. End of day, im Ferrari through and through. Everyone nows that, but i will be first to stand and say well dne to RBR as they have done better TEAM job. Merc had tyre test, what has happened to them recently? Look at Nico in Singapore, had to look after tyres after turn 2!!! then didnt push after SC because of same issue. Thats why Vettel had massive lead, and then he had 1 set of new softs left. No RBR T/C. If Webber, Fernando was ahead of Nico, Vettel wouldnt of been able to pull that gap. Simple.

FIA was always called MaFIA back in our days as it looked liked they helped us, now RBR getting the same from alot of fans/media. I hate fact that they going to have another double this year, handed to them, as you think, i may think a little aswell, but, they have out smarted us, all grid and just done a better all round team job.

[Sianellen]

I see you wish to be ABUSIVE on this Site and continue to "TAUNT" and be "DISRESPECTFUL"! Stop the Taunting and just enjoy the racing!

Where exactly is he being abusive or taunting you? You are the one being disrespectful. You shout people down as being blind yet have no proven evidence to back up any of your wild claims. Don't make statements and then back out on providing evidence to them when they are questioned if you want to be taken seriously. Just a thought...

[Greig]

I see you wish to be ABUSIVE on this Site and continue to "TAUNT" and be "DISRESPECTFUL"! Stop the Taunting and just enjoy the racing!

Abusive? like telling me I am not a Ferrari fan and to go support Red Bull, or was that just disrespectful, or a taunt, maybe all three. You do have to wonder why a Red Bull, Ferrari bashing person would pay to keep this forum here though, the mind boggles. You have told others they are blind if they don't agree with you, but you won't answer the questions that would tell us all how to see what you do.

[FrankAlfa]

Well I have debated the issues with you and there have been many other people that have already responded to the Red Bull cheating issues. I need not respond to your requests.

[Greig]

Well I have debated the issues with you and there have been many other people that have already responded to the Red Bull cheating issues. I need not respond to your requests.

Well I would request you stop posting in these threads until you are willing to back up your claims

[FA fan]

You say we are blind yet you post nothing that has any sort of evidence to help us see so yes you do have a point to prove to us people who don't believe your posts. So it's only been the past 4 years that the FIA have cheated everyone to help Red Bull? Again you will have to tell us why Red Bull dominating is a)good for the show b)makes the FIA/Bernie money.

Bernie makes his money from TV deals and tracks, so again I ask you why having one team dominating makes the sport more appealing to new tracks and to TV deals when viewing figures fall when there is a domination (as we see now with Red Bull and with Ferrari in the past). So if you can tell us this then maybe your points will be taken more seriously rather than just posting Red Bull cheat, FIA want Red Bull money and Bernie etc etc.

Well I just read this article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/30/sp...ess/index.html

And it seems for the last 5-6 years even with the recession Bernie is still making more money year after year! Just saying that red bull dominating for 4 years is not making Bernie lose more money.

[Greig]

Well I just read this article:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/30/sp...ess/index.html

And it seems for the last 5-6 years even with the recession Bernie is still making more money year after year! Just saying that red bull dominating for 4 years is not making Bernie lose more money.

Yeah and it tells you how the money is made, tracks and TV mostly. Which is why one team dominating is not good for TV and tracks. This is why they tried to stop Ferrari winning.

[FA fan]

Bernie move to Asia was just brilliant strategy,so going to new venues is insuring Bernie is making money.even if red bull are dominating,his income is up.

[Rob]

Bernie move to Asia was just brilliant strategy,so going to new venues is insuring Bernie is making money.even if red bull are dominating,his income is up.

Thats why he is where he is. We may not agree with where he takes the sport or tracks that loose GP's, but look at how big the sport is.

[FA fan]

Thats why he is where he is. We may not agree with where he takes the sport or tracks that loose GP's, but look at how big the sport is.

Yes he is talented in making money:) but Rob my point is,that one team like red bull has not made the income of Bernie less,just cuz their dominating! Even in the years of recession he has made more money which is incredible!

[Rob]

Yes he is talented in making money:) but Rob my point is,that one team like red bull has not made the income of Bernie less,just cuz their dominating! Even in the years of recession he has made more money which is incredible!

But what can RBR buy from him? he cannt pay FIA to change rules can he? Its all from sponsor, TV and track fees, track signage fees etc etc.

[FA fan]

I'm so happy that Fernando didn't join red bull,even when I was only an Alonso fan, knowing how many titles he could have won!! Still I'm so so glad he is in Ferrari,cuz i know deep inside when he wins with Ferrari it will be EARNED!!

[FA fan]

But what can RBR buy form him? he cannt pay FIA to change rules can he? Its all from sponsor, TV and track fees, track signage fees etc etc.

Well Im not accusing him from bribing,cuz I have no evidence,but if Ferrari wins the make more money cuz they reach the top spot,plus the 5 percent extra,so for bernie it's better if Ferrari loses. I can't say who he can pay or not! But when theres big money involved anything is possible! That I'm sure of..

[Greig]

Well Im not accusing him from bribing,cuz I have no evidence,but if Ferrari wins the make more money cuz they reach the top spot,plus the 5 percent extra,so for bernie it's better if Ferrari loses. I can't say who he can pay or not! But when theres big money involved anything is possible! That I'm sure of..

Ferrari get more than Red Bull anyway, Bernie says over and over F1 needs Ferrari so why would he be out there stopping them winning and risking them going.

[FA fan]

Ferrari get more than Red Bull anyway, Bernie says over and over F1 needs Ferrari so why would he be out there stopping them winning and risking them going.

Yes I knew they made more money than red bull last year cuz of the 5% extra,but don't they make more money if they clinch the constructors and drivers title?
LDM did threaten Bernie to leave f1,didn't he?

[FA fan]

But what can RBR buy from him? he cannt pay FIA to change rules can he? Its all from sponsor, TV and track fees, track signage fees etc etc.

With the new agreement signed he is paying the FIA more money;)

The announcement means that the FIA has a greatly improved financial deal from Ecclestone, adding up to €25 million per year, plus the €15 million annually it gets from a levy on F1 teams’ points.

[mirafiori]

Where exactly is he being abusive or taunting you? You are the one being disrespectful. You shout people down as being blind yet have no proven evidence to back up any of your wild claims. Don't make statements and then back out on providing evidence to them when they are questioned if you want to be taken seriously. Just a thought...

FrankAlfa is 100% correct in saying the FIA and Bernie, Charlie and all his friends are controlling all what happens in the sport, and if you can not see it then you must be blind, as for saying FrankAlfa has no evidence to back up his claims, then you and some other members on this forum must be blind. We see the connection of the key players in the sport week in week out always chatting together, and for some of you who say BERNIE HAS NO INFLUENCE in the rules is incredible. So Frank you are not alone I can see it two. FORZA FERRARI....

[DIEK]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns26490.html

Red Bull's car, not driver unbeatable says Hamilton

He is on the cusp of an ultra-rare fourth consecutive world championship, but Sebastian Vettel is not the best driver in the F1 field.

That is the view of Lewis Hamilton, who said his old McLaren teammate Fernando Alonso is better than the German.

"Fernando is the strongest driver I've raced against in my life," the Briton told Germany's frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper.

As for Vettel, Hamilton added: "He is not unbeatable; his car is unbeatable."

But Hamilton, the 2008 world champion who now drives for Mercedes, said Red Bull's Vettel will surely win the 2013 title.

"When I see him on Sunday before the start of the drivers' parade, I'll probably congratulate him," he said.

[zoocheatah]

You shout people down as being blind yet have no proven evidence to back up any of your wild claims. Don't make statements and then back out on providing evidence to them when they are questioned if you want to be taken seriously. Just a thought...

To be fair, Greig makes claims of technical reports and back room dealings without any evidence while he, and now with your help, calls out frankalfa on the same thing. Pretty hypocritical really.

[vcs316]

@ Greig,

Just Cool it! Enough with your Direct Dialog toward Me! We do not agree on the matter so lets just agree to disagree!

I am tired of YOU bashing Ferrari and how they are no good! All I keep hearing from you is Red Bull are the BEST and THEY are doing Everything By the Book and there is No Way Red Bull can possibly be doing anything illegal! You have defended Red Bull like only a Red Bull FAN does! Enough is Enough! You also refuse to acknowledge the Clear Breaking of the Rules and No Penalties being handed out the Red Bull Team over the past few years that have directly influenced the Constructor's and Driver's Championships! Then we have this years most recently Tires Testing Ban Scandal in which the Mercedes team recieved little or no penalty! If you don't like the Ferrari Team and you LOVE the RED BULL TEAM that much, then join them?

If Greig was a Red Bull fan, this forum would be called "theredbullwings.net". Never accuse him of being anything but passionate of Ferrari.

Respect the rival team if they have done a better job than ours and look forward to the next season.

[Hornet]

FrankAlfa is 100% correct in saying the FIA and Bernie, Charlie and all his friends are controlling all what happens in the sport, and if you can not see it then you must be blind, as for saying FrankAlfa has no evidence to back up his claims, then you and some other members on this forum must be blind. We see the connection of the key players in the sport week in week out always chatting together, and for some of you who say BERNIE HAS NO INFLUENCE in the rules is incredible. So Frank you are not alone I can see it two. FORZA FERRARI....

Frank alfa is just making things up. I can make things up to like saying Ferrari have more money than Red Bull so why not Bernie partner with us, pull strings in the FIA, and make Ferrari a champion? You think Red Bull is the richest company in the world that they are capable of making Bernie richer, the FIA richer, Pirelli richer? Why don't they just buy up the entire F1 and own the sport

Just because you want something to be that way, doesn't mean it is.


Edit:
By the way, I think it should be noted despite all these huge claims that Red Bull being allowed to cheat, there hasn't been any instance where they actually cheated. It's like shouting and screaming bloody murder while no one has committed any murder yet.

The whole traction control claims have been explained. Mr Minardi wasn't lying, he did heard the engines being cut, he just mistook it for traction control. So, there hasn't been any crime committed yet, but some people are already getting carried away with accusing a conspiracy to let Red Bull cheat.

[FA fan]

Frank alfa is just making things up. I can make things up to like saying Ferrari have more money than Red Bull so why not Bernie partner with us, pull strings in the FIA, and make Ferrari a champion? You think Red Bull is the richest company in the world that they are capable of making Bernie richer, the FIA richer, Pirelli richer? Why don't they just buy up the entire F1 and own the sport

Just because you want something to be that way, doesn't mean it is.

Edit:
By the way, I think it should be noted despite all these huge claims that Red Bull being allowed to cheat, there hasn't been any instance where they actually cheated. It's like shouting and screaming bloody murder while no one has committed any murder yet.


The whole traction control claims have been explained. Mr Minardi wasn't lying, he did heard the engines being cut, he just mistook it for traction control. So, there hasn't been any crime committed yet, but some people are already getting carried away with accusing a conspiracy to let Red Bull cheat.

@ Hornet my point was not about red bull cheating! It was that if red bull dominates for so many season it's bad for business,and bad for Bernie! While on the contrary the last 4 seasons Bernie is making more money,year after year! business is great!

[Rob]

To be fair, Greig makes claims of technical reports and back room dealings without any evidence while he, and now with your help, calls out frankalfa on the same thing. Pretty hypocritical really.

What claims?

If you find F1 that bad, dont watch.