Ferrari F2012 Development News Thread

[Rob]

And the non-working acer tubes + front pull-rod

Our "ACER ducts" were same as what Mclaren exhaust set up is, and few other teams. RBR has got "ducts" but leading underneath abit different to feed the diffuser. They a way to keep the "coke bottle" shape at the rear. Pull rod suspension, no difference really, bit better when wet, Mclaren are apparently going to run that set-up next year (heard that few months ago)

[Kyss4k]

Our "ACER ducts" were same as what Mclaren exhaust set up is, and few other teams. RBR has got "ducts" but leading underneath abit different to feed the diffuser. They a way to keep the "coke bottle" shape at the rear. Pull rod suspension, no difference really, bit better when wet, Mclaren are apparently going to run that set-up next year (heard that few months ago)

The concept of the Acer ducts was a lot different than what McLaren was using. It should direct the air from the radiators combined with exhaust fumes directly on the rear brake duct's mini wings and therefore creating a lot of quite constant downforce directly on the wheels. That was the initial concept, that was abandoned after the first tests.

[Grillo]

Why Newey didn't success at McLaren? What happens when you're full of good ideas but you can't test them all because of the budget cap, wind tunnel time restriction, etc.? Then you go to a new team where they don't care about money, budget and time restrictions. At least their wind tunnel works fine of course but there's more than just Newey. Money, resources a plenty, the best technicians.... Remember when Ferrari could test their new pieces at home in the backyard, they had a great driver and a great group of people together? Very soon they dominated the sport and a lot of rules changed to stop such dominance, remember?

[XXX132]

I think our aero team is good enough but we must have wasted so much time scratching heads wondering why the designs didn't perform as expected, only to find a new problem with the wind tunnel.

Now we've found out, it should mean future upgrades work more often than not. But with only four races left, the India upgrade needs to work big-time.

[anuragiyer8989]

I think our aero team is good enough but we must have wasted so much time scratching heads wondering why the designs didn't perform as expected, only to find a new problem with the wind tunnel.

Now we've found out, it should mean future upgrades work more often than not. But with only four races left, the India upgrade needs to work big-time.

The question is , have the India upgrades been tested in Toyota's wind tunnel or our own?There has been no mention of that, I think.

[albert]

Newey is quite overrated imo.
Fantastic designer, but not god. There are many other people at RedBull who are brilliant as well. If it was only Newey, they would not be doing as well.
Ferrari can take Newey on, just like McLaren can, as shown and proved by both this year.

Ferrari just need to get a wind tunnel that can work, and McLaren need to actually use their dominance.

Btw, BBC say Ferrari are now 100% at Cologne.

Williams were kings with Newey and dominated from 91-97 in terms of best car. Once Newey left in 1997, they became also rans who did not win a race for another 3 years, and have been midfield ever since. The moment he joined Mclaren in 1998 they went from also rans to the dominant car for the next 3-4 years. Within 3 years of joining redbull they went from midfield to the dominant car. I see a pattern. He is the dominant force in the sport and has been for the last 20 years. Michael in his prime had a lot of trouble beating his cars, and I think Vettel is better than those drivers were, probably mika as well who struggled in the wet. The one advantage we had back then is Neweys cars were consistently unreliable, but reliability is less of a factor in current f1 so its much harder to beat them.

If only the Ferrari had not been SO bad this year, Alonso could have won, and by that I mean, at least sometimes the fastest car or close to Redbull, but in about 11 out of 16 races it hasnt even been a contest.

[anupa2k]

Mclaren winning back to back three races...
Hungary, Spa and Italian GP..
Then Redbull winning next three races...
Singapore, Suzuka and Korean GP...

Now its time for Ferrari to make it not three but four in a row....

Come on Ferrari lets do it....Forza Ferrari... Forza Fernando....

[F2002]

Mclaren winning back to back three races...
Hungary, Spa and Italian GP..
Then Redbull winning next three races...
Singapore, Suzuka and Korean GP...

Now its time for Ferrari to make it not three but four in a row....

Come on Ferrari lets do it....Forza Ferrari... Forza Fernando....

Unfortunately this is the sort of reasoning we sometimes hear Domenicali referring to after a bad race: "if it happened to them, one day it will happen to us".

The realities are that, for this to happen, the car must be improved - and important upgrades have been promised for India and beyond.

So, yes indeed - Forza Ferrari - bring those upgrades, and the results will come !

[anupa2k]

Unfortunately this is the sort of reasoning we sometimes hear Domenicali referring to after a bad race: "if it happened to them, one day it will happen to us".

The realities are that, for this to happen, the car must be improved - and important upgrades have been promised for India and beyond.

So, yes indeed - Forza Ferrari - bring those upgrades, and the results will come !

Totally agreed.. I just want Ferrari to replicate what i posted...And more than Ferrari i believe in Fernando...because he knows the best...Unless and until he believes he can win the 2012 WDC even i do...

[F2002]

Totally agreed.. I just want Ferrari to replicate what i posted...And more than Ferrari i believe in Fernando...because he knows the best...Unless and until he believes he can win the 2012 WDC even i do...

I assume you are going to the race are you ?

[blaney1977]

Does anyone on here have an idea what the upgrade could be? Or what is it we need? Gary Anderson's blog says all ferrari have done last 6 or 7 races is fiddle around the edges, a package from front too rear, mechanical, any one with any knowledge of this or experience please post, I just don't want to be disappointed in India just get us on a par with red bull for next 4 races!!!!!!!!! Also what time per lap do we need to find?

[anialonso]

Does anyone on here have an idea what the upgrade could be? Or what is it we need? Gary Anderson's blog says all ferrari have done last 6 or 7 races is fiddle around the edges, a package from front too rear, mechanical, any one with any knowledge of this or experience please post, I just don't want to be disappointed in India just get us on a par with red bull for next 4 races!!!!!!!!! Also what time per lap do we need to find?

I think no reliable source has yet confirmed that Ferrari will have big upgrade for India..and Its true that since canada the only upgrades that ferrari have introduced is the RW and FW..
So to find more speed and aero efficieny Ferrari need to bring upgrades related to Exhaust,Diffuser,Floor which are big gainer in lap times..
Ferrari need about 0.3-0.5 to be on par with the Red Bulls..
Hoping we see a revised Rear package for India..

[anupa2k]

I think Ferrari should hire Pat Symonds who will be available from 2013 after 4 yrs ban...

[Ken]

I think Ferrari should hire Pat Symonds who will be available from 2013 after 4 yrs ban...

Would be a good idea if Pat Fry does not make the difference next year.

[scuderiafan]

Pat Symonds is at Marussia now.

And it isn't a good idea shuffling staff around every year, especially when this is the first year in a long time where I feel Ferrari are coming back to the good old days. (Not domination, but not midfield either)

2012 IMO was the first time since the rule changes where Ferrari have progressed rather than regressed. (I guess you could say 2010, but the same failing structure was in place)
Fry is making changes and they are only just now starting to bear a little fruit. Why undo that again?

[Ferrari_Fanatic]

Mclaren winning back to back three races...
Hungary, Spa and Italian GP..
Then Redbull winning next three races...
Singapore, Suzuka and Korean GP...

Now its time for Ferrari to make it not three but four in a row....

Come on Ferrari lets do it....Forza Ferrari... Forza Fernando....

I Like that!

[FerrariF60]

Mclaren winning back to back three races...
Hungary, Spa and Italian GP..
Then Redbull winning next three races...
Singapore, Suzuka and Korean GP...

Now its time for Ferrari to make it not three but four in a row....

Come on Ferrari lets do it....Forza Ferrari... Forza Fernando....

yeah, it's nice to dream isn't it??? just like the WISH thread we have b4 every grand prix weekend.
i too would LOVE to see Ferrari up there challenging for WIN and winning the last FOUR races; but let's be realistic here, i think it's gonna be really TOUGH, unless the so talked about BIG package for India really works and makes us a real contender to fight for POLE at every race...

fingers crossed and let's hope for the best in these coming races...

or as Fernando has said it in a recent interview: "Vettel may have the faster car, but we have teh BETTER TEAM".

[Alessandra]

......

..."or as Fernando has said it in a recent interview: "Vettel may have the faster car, but we have teh BETTER TEAM".

Yup. And as said on the BBC radio this morning ( so it must be right), Vettel is coming to Ferrari in 2014.
That boy has a charmed life doesn't he?

[amouzouris]

well the first 7 races of the season were pretty much anyone's race...no one understood their tires..in race 5 in Spain Ferrari brought their major upgrade package which got us from midfield to fighting with the top teams...in race 8 in Valencia some updates were brought, not as many as Spain though...at that point the next three races were about Ferrari..they almost won all three of them...Valencia, Great Britain and Germany...a strategic mistake was made in GB and Fernando lost the race to Webber...they learned from their mistake though and Fernando managed to defend them! In Germany mclaren brought a big upgrade package and got it working for the next race, dominating the next three races..and almost Singapore as well... Then it was Red Bull and Vettel for the next three..
Here is the thing now, since Valencia ferrari has been bringing small parts, but didn't manage to get its big upgrade package, the new front wing to work...The next planned big upgrade was for Singapore, but thank god they got a whiff of what was happening with the wind tunnel and didn't introduce the upgrade package...

Here is what i believe...the parts that weren't introduced are being/have been tested in Cologne (Toyota's Wind Tunnel which btw is a piece of art, especially with the PIV)and will be introduced in India..if they work and they probably will if they are tested in cologne ferrari might even be able to beat the bulls (fingers crossed they do!!)...Red Bull however is getting a lot of help from the DDRS because they can concentrate on race pace setup much more than before because they know they will be strong in qualifying because of the DDRS...in addition there are some rumors they might be bringing some new bodywork in India...so we will have to wait and see...

P.S. If anyone is interested in technical stuff..this is how i believe Red Bull's DDRS system works.. http://technicalf1explained.blogspot...-revealed.html

[anialonso]

Gary Anderson's Quote on how Redbull have developed their car..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941812

The most important thing is he too says Ferrari have a Big Upgrade coming...when??? hope its India..

[SoumyaBanerjee]

Gary Anderson's Quote on how Redbull have developed their car..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/19941812

The most important thing is he too says Ferrari have a Big Upgrade coming...when??? hope its India..

"Other than wing optimisation for different circuit layouts the car has stayed the same for a fairly long time". Is he crazy?? Ferrari brought a wholly new rear wing at Singapore,another revised design at Suzuka along with atleast 3 different FW's during the past 3 races. The F2012 sported a new floor at Singapore too. And the F2012's design is such that they cant really tweak the sidepods much. The RB's are simply being a lot more intelligent with their upgrades,thats all. It was not only did the faulty wind tunnel affected Ferrari's programme..the way in which some of the "upgrades" were designed-the valencia-spec FW and the singapore RW for example,also meant that the "upgrades" turned out to be "downgrades"...

[Ken]

"Other than wing optimisation for different circuit layouts the car has stayed the same for a fairly long time". Is he crazy?? Ferrari brought a wholly new rear wing at Singapore,another revised design at Suzuka along with atleast 3 different FW's during the past 3 races. The F2012 sported a new floor at Singapore too. And the F2012's design is such that they cant really tweak the sidepods much. The RB's are simply being a lot more intelligent with their upgrades,thats all. It was not only did the faulty wind tunnel affected Ferrari's programme..the way in which some of the "upgrades" were designed-the valencia-spec FW and the singapore RW for example,also meant that the "upgrades" turned out to be "downgrades"...

Not wishing to cause upset here but reading your post you seem to confirm Garry Anderson's opinion, with exception of the new floor

[burak karakutuk]

Does anyone on here have an idea what the upgrade could be? Or what is it we need? Gary Anderson's blog says all ferrari have done last 6 or 7 races is fiddle around the edges, a package from front too rear, mechanical, any one with any knowledge of this or experience please post, I just don't want to be disappointed in India just get us on a par with red bull for next 4 races!!!!!!!!! Also what time per lap do we need to find?

I got some infos and these are coming from a serious source you can trust me.We now plannig to bring a new exhaust which was created for 2013 basic but it will effect a lot this year's car if it works.But team has some suspecious on durability.It needs to be more resistance.Also Shell our parter is preparing a new oil which is aimed to get 1hp and engine power and some reliability.One more thing about Shell oil is it will reduce the fuel consumption. And this info says Ferrari made an application to ban Red Bull's flexi wing but as all we knew they couldnt do it even tests.So Ferrari had tried to copy but so far they failed.DDRS is another device will be tested and finally a new floor entegreted to new exhaust concept and tihgter diffuser.I forgot to say the new front wing.Ferrari tyring to get ready a flexi wing like Red Bull right now.Thats all i know

[eddie]

I got some infos and these are coming from a serious source you can trust me.We now plannig to bring a new exhaust which was created for 2013 basic but it will effect a lot this year's car if it works.But team has some suspecious on durability.It needs to be more resistance.Also Shell our parter is preparing a new oil which is aimed to get 1hp and engine power and some reliability.One more thing about Shell oil is it will reduce the fuel consumption. And this info says Ferrari made an application to ban Red Bull's flexi wing but as all we knew they couldnt do it even tests.So Ferrari had tried to copy but so far they failed.DDRS is another device will be tested and finally a new floor entegreted to new exhaust concept and tihgter diffuser.I forgot to say the new front wing.Ferrari tyring to get ready a flexi wing like Red Bull right now.Thats all i know

The Shell bit, I can confirm yes!

"We win and lose as a team" statement

Definitely on the Shell part but I am not allowed to comment more.

Ferrari will be working day and night according to the boss everyone at the Scuderia team @ Maranello will be a factor of consequence on a win or lose....

Very important days ahead...

[burak karakutuk]

The Shell bit, I can confirm yes!

"We win and lose as a team" statement

Definitely on the Shell part but I am not allowed to comment more.

Ferrari will be working day and night according to the boss everyone at the Scuderia team @ Maranello will be a factor of consequence on a win or lose....

Very important days ahead...

Yeah certainly Eddie.Team now has stopped all working on 2013 project.Just focused on 2012 car to make Fernando champion

[amouzouris]

I got some infos and these are coming from a serious source you can trust me.We now plannig to bring a new exhaust which was created for 2013 basic but it will effect a lot this year's car if it works.But team has some suspecious on durability.It needs to be more resistance.Also Shell our parter is preparing a new oil which is aimed to get 1hp and engine power and some reliability.One more thing about Shell oil is it will reduce the fuel consumption. And this info says Ferrari made an application to ban Red Bull's flexi wing but as all we knew they couldnt do it even tests.So Ferrari had tried to copy but so far they failed.DDRS is another device will be tested and finally a new floor entegreted to new exhaust concept and tihgter diffuser.I forgot to say the new front wing.Ferrari tyring to get ready a flexi wing like Red Bull right now.Thats all i know

can you expand more as to who is your source? and what exactly this new exhaust will look like if the rumor is true?

[eddie]

Yeah certainly Eddie.Team now has stopped all working on 2013 project.Just focused on 2012 car to make Fernando champion

Mandate is every guy must have 2 eyes on the last 4 races very stressful times indeed.

[burak karakutuk]

can you expand more as to who is your source? and what exactly this new exhaust will look like if the rumor is true?

no i cant give any details my friend sorry :(

[burak karakutuk]

Mandate is every guy must have 2 eyes on the last 4 races very stressful times indeed.

ask me :) my hairs are fading away while i am watching races

[amouzouris]

i'll be the happiest man in the world if it is true..although a lot of hard work would be needed...they would have to test it extensively before they can race it! a lot like preseason testing, testing if it overheats etc etc.