Scuderia Ferrari SF70H

[FerrariF60]

I don't think we are behind power wise.
SEB did the best sector 3 in Q(Canada),despite Hams mighty lap with the Mercs magic button and their new fuel.

so then where were we losing time compared to them??? twisty bits of the circuit, traction out of slow corners?? braking??

the truth of the matter is that the Merc MAY have the better faster car as Toto wolf clearly stated in some interviews.

oh well, we;ll see in a few days were WE stack up against the Merc.

[Jax]

so then where were we losing time compared to them??? twisty bits of the circuit, traction out of slow corners?? braking??

the truth of the matter is that the Merc MAY have the better faster car as Toto wolf clearly stated in some interviews.

oh well, we;ll see in a few days were WE stack up against the Merc.

Sebastian overdid his lap.

[long2ma]

https://thejudge13.com/2017/06/22/fe...ains-for-baku/

[mwk360]

so then where were we losing time compared to them??? twisty bits of the circuit, traction out of slow corners?? braking??

the truth of the matter is that the Merc MAY have the better faster car as Toto wolf clearly stated in some interviews.

oh well, we;ll see in a few days were WE stack up against the Merc.

I think Bottas said they are faster on turns, but it could just be him PR-ing for mercs like someone said, their engine no doubt seems better at the moment

[mwk360]

https://thejudge13.com/2017/06/22/fe...ains-for-baku/

maybe they worried that the engine upgrade could fail if they rush it at Baku?

But its clear now that Mercs have the fastest car according to that info.

No wonder Ham has been so confident lately and talking about ferrari and vettel taking blows, before he was more cautious in bragging

[gvera]

PU Elements situation before Baku.
http://www.fia.com/file/58741/download?token=TUWcbqBs

[mwk360]

PU Elements situation before Baku.
http://www.fia.com/file/58741/download?token=TUWcbqBs

Seb is already on his 4th Turbo Charger :-O

[mizf1]

Apparently a engine upgrade at Baku

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/vi...Azerbaijan_GP/

[bondilad]

maybe they worried that the engine upgrade could fail if they rush it at Baku?

But its clear now that Mercs have the fastest car according to that info.

No wonder Ham has been so confident lately and talking about ferrari and vettel taking blows, before he was more cautious in bragging

I'm confused.... they are brining the new PU to Baku right??

[mwk360]

I'm confused.... they are brining the new PU to Baku right??

Apparently yes!, but im confused now , i think yesterday there was a tweet saying there wasn't going to be any big upgrades coming

[bondilad]

Apparently yes!, but im confused now , i think yesterday there was a tweet saying there wasn't going to be any big upgrades coming

Looks a like a very descent upgrade too.....hope it is true.

[mwk360]

Looks a like a very descent upgrade too.....hope it is true.

[Stormy]

I'm confused.... they are brining the new PU to Baku right??

According to the article above you, it looks like it, yes.

[mwk360]

is "La Gazzetta dello Sport" legit or more rumor based?

[mwk360]

that 4 engine limit is really going to ruin Ferrari down the line if any upgrade to the engine counts as a new one used

[FerrariF60]

that 4 engine limit is really going to ruin Ferrari down the line if any upgrade to the engine counts as a new one used

hopefully THIS upgrade will be the ONLY one will need this season; and if NOT, then we'll just have to take a 10 place grid drop at a race where passing on track will be much easier....so basically that weekend will be damage limitation but WELL WORTH it if that "upgrade" will prove beneficial....

we'll see, we're NOT even half way through the season....

[jgonzalesm6]

FIA steps up F1 oil burn clampdown

The FIA has stepped up its clampdown on Formula 1 teams potentially trying to get a power boost by using oil as fuel, with a fresh directive to teams issued ahead of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix.

While what has been a season-long focus on oil burn was initially prompted by Red Bull suspecting rivals had found a way around the regulations, it is understood the latest move has come unprompted from the FIA because it wants to ensure all teams are operating within the regulations.

With the issue first coming to light on the eve of the campaign, the FIA upped its monitoring of oil usage and its chemical composition to ensure that no wrongdoing was taking place.

However, with grounds to suspect that there could still be ways to get around the rules, the FIA has now stated explicitly that [U]the use of chemicals in oil [/U]that could help improve combustion is not allowed.

In a note sent to teams from Marcin Budkowski, head of the F1 technical department, he is emphatic about what is and is not allowed.

Budkowski wrote: "We wish to remind you that, as previously stated in various meetings and re-emphasised in TD/004-17, we consider the use of oil as fuel to be prohibited by the Technical Regulations.

"For the avoidance of doubt, the only fuel that may be used for combustion is petrol, and the only permitted characteristics of that petrol are clearly set out in Article 19 of the Technical Regulations.

"Even though the Technical Regulations do not directly specify the permitted characteristics of engine oil used in F1, we would consider any attempt to use additional components or substances in oil for the purpose of enhancing combustion as a breach of the Technical Regulations."

Earlier this year, the F1 Commission approved a three-point plan for 2018 in a bid to stop teams from exploiting the area of oil burn.

Rule changes planned for next year include a new regulation that teams must supply the measurement of the oil level of its main tank to the FIA at all times of the event, that active control valves between the power unit and engine air intake be banned and that teams be limited to a single specification of oil per engine at a grand prix.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...mpdown-921569/



With regards to the bold part, I have always said that "additives" in the oil react with the fuel in the combustion chamber (detonation) to give those an extra boost.

[FerrariF60]

FIA steps up F1 oil burn clampdown

The FIA has stepped up its clampdown on Formula 1 teams potentially trying to get a power boost by using oil as fuel, with a fresh directive to teams issued ahead of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix.

While what has been a season-long focus on oil burn was initially prompted by Red Bull suspecting rivals had found a way around the regulations, it is understood the latest move has come unprompted from the FIA because it wants to ensure all teams are operating within the regulations.

With the issue first coming to light on the eve of the campaign, the FIA upped its monitoring of oil usage and its chemical composition to ensure that no wrongdoing was taking place.

However, with grounds to suspect that there could still be ways to get around the rules, the FIA has now stated explicitly that [U]the use of chemicals in oil [/U]that could help improve combustion is not allowed.

In a note sent to teams from Marcin Budkowski, head of the F1 technical department, he is emphatic about what is and is not allowed.

Budkowski wrote: "We wish to remind you that, as previously stated in various meetings and re-emphasised in TD/004-17, we consider the use of oil as fuel to be prohibited by the Technical Regulations.

"For the avoidance of doubt, the only fuel that may be used for combustion is petrol, and the only permitted characteristics of that petrol are clearly set out in Article 19 of the Technical Regulations.

"Even though the Technical Regulations do not directly specify the permitted characteristics of engine oil used in F1, we would consider any attempt to use additional components or substances in oil for the purpose of enhancing combustion as a breach of the Technical Regulations."

Earlier this year, the F1 Commission approved a three-point plan for 2018 in a bid to stop teams from exploiting the area of oil burn.

Rule changes planned for next year include a new regulation that teams must supply the measurement of the oil level of its main tank to the FIA at all times of the event, that active control valves between the power unit and engine air intake be banned and that teams be limited to a single specification of oil per engine at a grand prix.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...mpdown-921569/



With regards to the bold part, I have always said that "additives" in the oil react with the fuel in the combustion chamber (detonation) to give those an extra boost.

so hopefully those taht are doing this...aka mercedes works team will take a big hit in "lap time".....ha, ha...

[jgonzalesm6]

so hopefully those taht are doing this...aka mercedes works team will take a big hit in "lap time".....ha, ha...

Let's hope so, IMHO, they(FIA) do not have the technical "no-how" to break down the oil on a molecular level as they do with fuel. Conventional fully synthetic oil has

additives already in it and whether it's Petronas, Shell, or BP they (oil companies) can "drum up" some name for the alleged "additives" use in the oil. The FIA do not have

oil experts from the mentioned companies therefore, for the meantime while the letter of said additives in the oil is stricly forebidden, the question becomes, will said team or

teams adhere to the letter. I think 2018 will be the year that the FIA really clamps down on this.....and proves it through testing at any given GP.

[mwk360]

FIA steps up F1 oil burn clampdown

The FIA has stepped up its clampdown on Formula 1 teams potentially trying to get a power boost by using oil as fuel, with a fresh directive to teams issued ahead of the Azerbaijan Grand Prix.

While what has been a season-long focus on oil burn was initially prompted by Red Bull suspecting rivals had found a way around the regulations, it is understood the latest move has come unprompted from the FIA because it wants to ensure all teams are operating within the regulations.

With the issue first coming to light on the eve of the campaign, the FIA upped its monitoring of oil usage and its chemical composition to ensure that no wrongdoing was taking place.

However, with grounds to suspect that there could still be ways to get around the rules, the FIA has now stated explicitly that [U]the use of chemicals in oil [/U]that could help improve combustion is not allowed.

In a note sent to teams from Marcin Budkowski, head of the F1 technical department, he is emphatic about what is and is not allowed.

Budkowski wrote: "We wish to remind you that, as previously stated in various meetings and re-emphasised in TD/004-17, we consider the use of oil as fuel to be prohibited by the Technical Regulations.

"For the avoidance of doubt, the only fuel that may be used for combustion is petrol, and the only permitted characteristics of that petrol are clearly set out in Article 19 of the Technical Regulations.

"Even though the Technical Regulations do not directly specify the permitted characteristics of engine oil used in F1, we would consider any attempt to use additional components or substances in oil for the purpose of enhancing combustion as a breach of the Technical Regulations."

Earlier this year, the F1 Commission approved a three-point plan for 2018 in a bid to stop teams from exploiting the area of oil burn.

Rule changes planned for next year include a new regulation that teams must supply the measurement of the oil level of its main tank to the FIA at all times of the event, that active control valves between the power unit and engine air intake be banned and that teams be limited to a single specification of oil per engine at a grand prix.


https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...mpdown-921569/



With regards to the bold part, I have always said that "additives" in the oil react with the fuel in the combustion chamber (detonation) to give those an extra boost.

thats great news if Mercs cant use it, i hope Ferrari weren't using it too then. If Mercs lose that insane Qualy boost they get, then thats a good step in the right direction

[mwk360]

hopefully THIS upgrade will be the ONLY one will need this season; and if NOT, then we'll just have to take a 10 place grid drop at a race where passing on track will be much easier....so basically that weekend will be damage limitation but WELL WORTH it if that "upgrade" will prove beneficial....

we'll see, we're NOT even half way through the season....

You are correct, they should resort to taking those penalties at a disadvantaged race or if they suffer during Qualy, way way to early to already be on part 4 of any

[gvera]

is "La Gazzetta dello Sport" legit or more rumor based?

In this case it seems just a rumour.
Motorsport says Ferrari will use the same ICE (number 2) in both cars.

La Ferrari per il momento non ha mostrato grandi novità tecniche: intanto possiamo dire che la squadra del Cavallino non ha programmato alcuna sostituzione di power unit sulle monoposto dei due piloti, anche se Kimi Raikkonen inizia a Baku il sesto weekend con il motore termico numero 2 (che era stato montato in Baharain)

As today, FIA documents show just 2 ICE elements used in the Ferraris so at least at the moment there's no confirmation of the upgrade.
If they fit a third one FIA will issue a document with the change.

[mwk360]

In this case it seems just a rumour.
Motorsport says Ferrari will use the same ICE (number 2) in both cars.

La Ferrari per il momento non ha mostrato grandi novità tecniche: intanto possiamo dire che la squadra del Cavallino non ha programmato alcuna sostituzione di power unit sulle monoposto dei due piloti, anche se Kimi Raikkonen inizia a Baku il sesto weekend con il motore termico numero 2 (che era stato montato in Baharain)

As today, FIA documents show just 2 ICE elements used in the Ferraris so at least at the moment there's no confirmation of the upgrade.
If they fit a third one FIA will issue a document with the change.

Thank you, dang would've liked to see Ferrari get closer to mercs especially at this circuit, but if it means better testing and reliability than that's good too

[jgonzalesm6]

thats great news if Mercs cant use it, i hope Ferrari weren't using it too then. If Mercs lose that insane Qualy boost they get, then thats a good step in the right direction

maybe next year but for the meantime.......its just a letter. For you young-bloods think that this is cheating....it is not. It has to do more with finding the "loopholes" in the

system as some veterans know this is all too familiar in F1 that dates back for half a century...or longer.

[gvera]

maybe next year but for the meantime.......its just a letter. For you young-bloods think that this is cheating....it is not. It has to do more with finding the "loopholes" in the system as some veterans know this is all too familiar in F1 that dates back for half a century...or longer.

I agree, but FIA has tightened the rules so from now on it will be considered cheating if you use additives in the oil to enhance it's combustion, this is not for next year.

[Greig]

I agree, but FIA has tightened the rules so from now on it will be considered cheating if you use additives in the oil to enhance it's combustion, this is not for next year.

Indeed, this is to stop it right now not next year.

[jgonzalesm6]

I agree, but FIA has tightened the rules so from now on it will be considered cheating if you use additives in the oil to enhance it's combustion, this is not for next year.

Indeed, this is to stop it right now not next year.

I'm with you guys on this. How will they(FIA) stop it if they don't know what to look for nor have the expertise as everyone uses additives in oil but namely Petronas. The

only way I see the FIA clamping down is if they start getting oil samples from this Baku GP onward till the end of the season; until they get the know-how and expertise that

breaks down the oil on the molecular level including additives and any wins with this "special oil" will be stripped !!! Will it happen???......I remain pessimistic.

[gvera]

I'm with you guys on this. How will they(FIA) stop it if they don't know what to look for nor have the expertise as everyone uses additives in oil but namely Petronas. The

only way I see the FIA clamping down is if they start getting oil samples from this Baku GP onward till the end of the season; until they get the know-how and expertise that

breaks down the oil on the molecular level including additives and any wins with this "special oil" will be stripped !!! Will it happen???......I remain pessimistic.

Do you need to analize the oil or just ask Petronas the additives used and the reason for using them?
Sure, they can lie but that would cost Petronas a lot if caught afterwards.

[Homan13PSU]

hopefully THIS upgrade will be the ONLY one will need this season; and if NOT, then we'll just have to take a 10 place grid drop at a race where passing on track will be much easier....so basically that weekend will be damage limitation but WELL WORTH it if that "upgrade" will prove beneficial....

we'll see, we're NOT even half way through the season....

To my knowledge, most if not all the engine components previously used can still be used later in the season if I'm not mistaken. So, while the situation looks dire, it really isn't all that bad if that's the case.

[gvera]

To my knowledge, most if not all the engine components previously used can still be used later in the season if I'm not mistaken. So, while the situation looks dire, it really isn't all that bad if that's the case.

It has been discussed previously.
The problem is just with the turbos, they needed to change them to an upgraded version after failures, SEB has already used 4 different ones, the max allowed for the year.
We don't know how many of those four are usable on races without risking a failure, he will surely use them on fridays but will probably need at least a fifth one to cover the remaining races.