Move Ferrari to England and get a Merc engine....

[Greig]

Would that please most if it meant we won titles?

Does it matter to anyone that Ferrari are Italian and based in Italy, does it matter if they make their own engine?

Would they even be Ferrari anymore if they did?

[jgonzalesm6]

Move Ferrari F1 to England.

Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.

[nani_s23]

Move Ferrari F1 to England.

Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.

I agree...!!

[ferrari1.8t]

The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

So no, moving team is not the answer.

[Stormsearcher]

Move to england if it meant better tech personnel. We can still build our own engines and it will still be an italian team.

[nani_s23]

The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

So no, moving team is not the answer.

Ferrari base would be in Italy. It’s just they need to get rid of correlation data issues.
Set up another base in England & hire. Instead of pouring so much on drivers & other stuff, just correct your data. If not the best, be at least competitive.

[JPZ]

I would not want to see Ferrari leave Maranello.

[ferrari1.8t]

Ferrari base would be in Italy. It’s just they need to get rid of correlation data issues.
Set up another base in England & hire. Instead of pouring so much on drivers & other stuff, just correct your data. If not the best, be at least competitive.

There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.

[jgonzalesm6]

There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.

Just the F1 dept.....not the whole Ferrari company.

[Tony]

How quickly some forget how well Ferrari were doing under Sergio Marchionne... may he rest in peace...

There are teams in the UK that are also not able to progress and have done nothing for 10-15 years... there is definitely a question of lack of competence in the current Ferrari organization. This needs to be corrected quickly.

Maybe they should also consider leaving F1 and going to Indycar... i watched a race over the weekend, there must have been over 100 passes made, it was much closer racing and much more exciting than the current iteration of F1 where there is too much politics and where the rules are stifling the sport because teams do not have the budget.

[jgonzalesm6]

How quickly some forget how well Ferrari were doing under Sergio Marchionne... may he rest in peace...

There are teams in the UK that are also not able to progress and have done nothing for 10-15 years... there is definitely a question of lack of competence in the current Ferrari organization. This needs to be corrected quickly.

Maybe they should also consider leaving F1 and going to Indycar... i watched a race over the weekend, there must have been over 100 passes made, it was much closer racing and much more exciting than the current iteration of F1 where there is too much politics and where the rules are stifling the sport because teams do not have the budget.

Those teams don't have money like Ferrari IF Ferrari was already in the UK 10 or 15 years ago.

No, Ferrari should not leave F1.......ever.

Ferrari did try to protest in the psst with a full scale fully drivable Indycar entry.....but Ferrari did'nt enter it. With the budget cap now looming, it's a possibility to shift some of those "lost" resources to Indycar??

[Hornet]

I'd rather see Ferrari leave F1 than to race with a Merc engine.
The engine is the heart of the car. Can't call it a Ferrari car if it's running someone else's engine

As far as talent goes, I dont believe that Ferrari team must be lead by an Italian only. Ferrari should get the best people out there, irrespective of their nationality.

[WS6TransAm01]

Move Ferrari F1 to England.

Hire a TP with enough savvy and managerial skills to run an F1 team of the likes of Wolff or Horner....Ferrari has the money to hire the best for that position.

Hire staff, engineers and mechanics for an F1 team in that area where most F1 teams are located. Ferrari has the money to hire the best.

Do all your wind tunnel tests and CFD at the England site.

Exactly.

Engines can still be built in Maranello, but engineering can take place in England. The engineers don't need to be in Italy to send designs there. I have projects all over the country without being in every one of those places all the time. You can even have the composites manufacturing in Maranello.

They need to move the engineering department to a location where they have a greater pool of talent to hire from. I village of 17,000 people isn't enticing to many aspiring engineers. It's really simple.

Having your engineering department in England doesn't make them an English team either. Merc's engineering base is in England but they are still considered a German team. Stop the stupidity.


There are large ramifications with that model. Ferrari employs plenty of local residents, the local economy depends on Ferrari. You would cripple that region if you took away most of the jobs Ferrari creates imo.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ferrari F1 is a sports team/business, not a charity.

[PURE PASSION]

Personally i dont like the idea of Ferrari being outside Maranello. It might become better team but i will different in my eyes !!!!

[F2008]

As if Britons are the only people in the world who can design an F1 car ... WW2 ended a long time ago, and so did their superpower status. The "Motorsport Valley" is no more than a remnant of it. I am convinced that if brands such as Renault, Mercedes and Honda had an ongoing factory team in F1 like Ferrari instead of making an appearance from time to time by buying an England-based team (Benetton/Toleman, BrawnGP/Tyrell/BAR...) when it suits them, they wouldn't be located in England at all.

[watto2]

Ferrari is Maranello but Formula 1 of which Ferrari is one of the building blocks prospers mainly in the Northampton shire, Oxford shire and Buckingham shire area of England with Renault and Mercedes based here. I'm sure they make some components abroad but the knowledge is based here

[WS6TransAm01]

As if Britons are the only people in the world who can design an F1 car ... WW2 ended a long time ago, and so did their superpower status. The "Motorsport Valley" is no more than a remnant of it. I am convinced that if brands such as Renault, Mercedes and Honda had an ongoing factory team in F1 like Ferrari instead of making an appearance from time to time by buying an England-based team (Benetton/Toleman, BrawnGP/Tyrell/BAR...) when it suits them, they wouldn't be located in England at all.

No one is saying “only Britons can design F1 cars” what is being said is that a greater number of top level engineers are willing to be in or relocate to England than Italy. Therefore if the design team for Ferrari was in England they would have access to a grater pool of talent. Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.

[Gerhard Berger]

No one is saying “only Britons can design F1 cars” what is being said is that a greater number of top level engineers are willing to be in or relocate to England than Italy. Therefore if the design team for Ferrari was in England they would have access to a grater pool of talent. Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.

Ferrari used to have this setup in the mid 90s and it brought no success. John Barnard had his design office setup in England. Chief Designer Gustav Brunner was also working out of England.

Ferrari only became successful after Todt decided this setup was not feasible in the long run and moved everything back to Maranello.

Since then, Ferrari have attracted a very diverse set of people in terms of nationality with many British nationals. Off the top of my head:

Brawn (British)
Byrne (South African)
Dyer (Australian)
Smedley (British)
Tombazis (Greek)
Czapski (British)
Allison (British)
Simon (French)
De Beer (South African)
Clear (British)
Fry (British)

I don't believe Ferrari being based in Maranello is hindering them. If anything it's an advantage to have both the engine and design departments next door to each other. No other team has that advatange.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari used to have this setup in the mid 90s and it brought no success. John Barnard had his design office setup in England. Chief Designer Gustav Brunner was also working out of England.

Ferrari only became successful after Todt decided this setup was not feasible in the long run and moved everything back to Maranello.

Since then, Ferrari have attracted a very diverse set of people in terms of nationality with many British nationals. Off the top of my head:

Brawn (British)
Byrne (South African)
Dyer (Australian)
Smedley (British)
Tombazis (Greek)
Czapski (British)
Allison (British)
Simon (French)
De Beer (South African)
Clear (British)
Fry (British)

I don't believe Ferrari being based in Maranello is hindering them. If anything it's an advantage to have both the engine and design departments next door to each other. No other team has that advatange.


Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.

[Gerhard Berger]

Exactly.

Engines can still be built in Maranello, but engineering can take place in England. The engineers don't need to be in Italy to send designs there. I have projects all over the country without being in every one of those places all the time. You can even have the composites manufacturing in Maranello.

That seems wholly inefficient.


They need to move the engineering department to a location where they have a greater pool of talent to hire from. I village of 17,000 people isn't enticing to many aspiring engineers. It's really simple.

Do you really think Milton Keynes or Brackley is that much more enticing? :Hmm

I understand that some Brits might not been keen on moving themselves (and their family) to Italy (Newey being a prime example), but the evidence suggests that many of the top Brits are happy to make the move.

[WS6TransAm01]

Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.

Excellent point.


That seems wholly inefficient.



Do you really think Milton Keynes or Brackley is that much more enticing? :Hmm

I understand that some Brits might not been keen on moving themselves (and their family) to Italy (Newey being a prime example), but the evidence suggests that many of the top Brits are happy to make the move.

as jg said, it doesn't seem to last.

Brackley is an hour and a half outside of London, as in Milton Keynes. London is to Europe as NYC is to the US. Personally I'd rather be 90' outside of London and 2 hours outside of Rome.

[Gerhard Berger]

Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.

He did just fine at Mclaren...


Yes, Ferrari has attracted the people you mentioned......but some or most of those people don't last with Ferrari.

There will always be turnover regardless of nationality. Even the Italians will come and go.


Just because Ferrari tried it once in the past, does'nt mean they can try it again albeit with experienced people whom can manage and run an F1 team.

A move like this has a lot of costs involved. It's not something that should done on a whim or as a knee jerk reaction to a poor start to the season.

Looking back at what happened with Barnard does give us insights into the difficulties of such a setup.

[WS6TransAm01]

A move like this has a lot of costs involved. It's not something that should done on a whim or as a knee jerk reaction to a poor start to the season.


Except it's not just one season. It's 12.

[Gerhard Berger]

Excellent point.



as jg said, it doesn't seem to last.

Brackley is an hour and a half outside of London, as in Milton Keynes. London is to Europe as NYC is to the US. Personally I'd rather be 90' outside of London and 2 hours outside of Rome.

Have you been to Brackley or Milton Keynes? They are not glamorous places. Guys working for Mercedes or Red Bull will be living in those places. They won't be living in London or working in London!

Maranello is closer to Milan by the way.

[Gerhard Berger]

Except it's not just one season. It's 12.

12 poor starts to the season? Please list them. Seems like you have very high standards. Certainly 17 and 18 were not poor.

I guess Mclaren should re-consider their base in Woking given the number of poor starts to the season they've had! Perhaps they should move to Italy!

[WS6TransAm01]

12 poor starts to the season? Please list them. Seems like you have very high standards. Certainly 17 and 18 were not poor.

I guess Mclaren should re-consider their base in Woking given the number of poor starts to the season they've had! Perhaps they should move to Italy!

You're right. I am not talking about starts. I am talking about 12 poor seasons as a whole.

McLaren has other issues.

[gvera]

The titles would be meaningless to me. Ferrari is Italian and should stay in Italy. Making our own engines is part of our DNA. These ebbs and flows of dominance by one team happen all the time in the history of F1. Unfortunately, this is not our time. We will recover, as angry as I and many tifosi are, we need to be patient and stop the knee jerk reactions.

So no, moving team is not the answer.

I completely agree with you, thinking of a british Ferrari or using Mercs engine is just blasphemous.

[Liscia]

I completely agree with you, thinking of a british Ferrari or using Mercs engine is just blasphemous.

Those are my sentiments as well. I had a longer reply ready yesterday but found yours covered how I felt more than adequately, thanks.

[Greig]

Newey not wanting to move to Italy and Allison wanting to leave are just two examples of an overall trend. This is why Ferrari are not competitive anymore. They simply can’t attract talent.

Newey's wife did not want to move not Newey, Allison left to go home after the death of his wife, he had previously already been at Ferrari so clearly had no issue moving to Italy, he did not leave because of anything to do with Italy.

[Greig]

Trus.....but Barnard was'nt the best Team Principal. He was a loner and did'nt work well with engineers....hence the failure of the GTO in the 90's.



Maybe because he was not the team principal? He was technical director heading up the car design team not running the whole team.

[WS6TransAm01]

Newey's wife did not want to move not Newey, Allison left to go home after the death of his wife, he had previously already been at Ferrari so clearly had no issue moving to Italy, he did not leave because of anything to do with Italy.

Newey's wife didn't want to move to Italy from where they lived... in England.

Allison left because his wife passed and he wanted to be with his family which was in... England.

So what you are saying is that if the engineering department was in England, Newey would have joined because his wife would not have protested and Allison would not have left because he would have already been with his family.

Thank you for proving my point Greig. :thumb

[jgonzalesm6]

He did just fine at Mclaren...



There will always be turnover regardless of nationality. Even the Italians will come and go.



A move like this has a lot of costs involved. It's not something that should done on a whim or as a knee jerk reaction to a poor start to the season.

Looking back at what happened with Barnard does give us insights into the difficulties of such a setup.


Maybe because he was not the team principal? He was technical director heading up the car design team not running the whole team.



So just because it failed once in the 90's, it will fail again....whether 10yrs ago or starting today???? Maybe you guys are right!! Why even try again!!

Let's just stick to the way things are then.

The "Dream Team" of the 2000's will never happen again with Ferrari......and that was a mix of gentlemen that knew how to run an F1 team. Ferrari will not cave again to that mix of cohesiveness and engineering......it has to be all Italian or nothing......jeeeeeeezzzz.

[WS6TransAm01]

So just because it failed once in the 90's, it will fail again....whether 10yrs ago or starting today???? Maybe you guys are right!! Why even try again!!

Let's just stick to the way things are then.

The "Dream Team" of the 2000's will never happen again with Ferrari......and that was a mix of gentlemen that knew how to run an F1 team. Ferrari will not cave again to that mix of cohesiveness and engineering......it has to be all Italian or nothing......jeeeeeeezzzz.

Yup. No reason to change anything, clearly the way Ferrari works now is working just fine.

[Gerhard Berger]

So just because it failed once in the 90's, it will fail again....whether 10yrs ago or starting today???? Maybe you guys are right!! Why even try again!!

Let's just stick to the way things are then.

The "Dream Team" of the 2000's will never happen again with Ferrari......and that was a mix of gentlemen that knew how to run an F1 team. Ferrari will not cave again to that mix of cohesiveness and engineering......it has to be all Italian or nothing......jeeeeeeezzzz.

Perhaps you would like to explain why you're so sure that it wouldn't fail again?

[Gerhard Berger]

Yup. No reason to change anything, clearly the way Ferrari works now is working just fine.

How can you be so sure that the location of the design office is what's holding Ferrari back?

If we're talking about this season specifically, it is quite clear that the engine is a dead weight. Relocating the chassis design office to somewhere in Northamptonshire won't help improve the engine.

[jgonzalesm6]

Perhaps you would like to explain why you're so sure that it wouldn't fail again?

2nd post of this thread.


Unless you're unsure Ferrari cannot hire the best there is???

[Gerhard Berger]

2nd post of this thread.


Unless you're unsure Ferrari cannot hire the best there is???

Perhaps you could be more specific...

For example:

Who specifically will Ferrari hire that they can't hire now?

Which wind tunnel will they use in England? Or would they build a new one? Where would the funding come from?

What would happen to the design office and wind tunnel at Maranello?

How will you address the inevitable inefficiencies created from having the engine team in one location and the chassis team in another location?

[jgonzalesm6]

Perhaps you could be more specific...

For example:

Who specifically will Ferrari hire that they can't hire now??

Had Ferrari done the move 10 years ago, maybe they would have had the likes of Horner or Wolff? Alot better than say the "Marlboro:" men that have been running the team??

By NOW would mean that they would already be established...yes. Why not hire the best? Ferrari has the money....no?




Which wind tunnel will they use in England? Or would they build a new one? Where would the funding come from?

Build a new one.....Ferrari has the money.


What would happen to the design office and wind tunnel at Maranello?

The wind tunnel would remain for the production cars but the F1 design office would close and transfer to England.


How will you address the inevitable inefficiencies created from having the engine team in one location and the chassis team in another location?

Mercedes AMG does it....the chassis is built at Brackley....while the engine at Germany at AMG.....not so inefficiencient is it? Ferrari could do the same....no?

Honda does the same thing.....builds the engine in Japan....then it gets transfered to Milton Keynes.

Ferrari can do too.

[330 p4]

Ferrari do not need to touch the UK. It would damage the brand, they make super cars and would catch the UK car company disease of failure. Look at Lotus, Aston Martin, McLaren all financial disasters, even Bentley are shedding staff and they are owned by VAG. Allison was at Ferrari a while and not many were impressed at the time. Da Costa is Italian, was fired and was a genius when at Merc. Nothing to do with the country in modern times. Ferrari thought this and acted on it in 90's and failed, yet by the end of the decade won 6 straight constructors and 5 drivers titles....all based in Italy. Start of Cov19 UK was better place to be then Italy but in the end UK was much worse. Ferrari just need to sell lots of cars in the UK and not taint themselves by being based there.

[brawnydog]

I totally agree. Da Costa was a great designer as we can see the long lasting effects of his designs at Mercedes. Ferrari’s big mistake was to fire him. That was Di Montezemolo’s big blunder. Who can name the chief designer at Ferrari today. I can’t. Is it Simone Resta? I also feel that the death of Marchionne is having its effects now. The team was on the rise under him and now it’s hitting some tough times. But Mercedes was not great either during the V10 era. F1 does go in cycles and when the right team gels it will be unstoppable. So, should we say Ferrari is a horrible team? Absolutely not. They’ve been top three for most years since their dominance. So, why are they so heavily criticized? When they don’t win the championship, they blame the team being Italian. The team was 90% Italian during the Brawn days and were based 100% in Italy. But don’t forget we also had the best driver of all time. Let’s be patient. They have the right driver now. Just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gerhard Berger]

Had Ferrari done the move 10 years ago, maybe they would have had the likes of Horner or Wolff? Alot better than say the "Marlboro:" men that have been running the team??

Wolff has 2 homes. One in the UK and one in Switzerland. He also spends a lot of his time skiing in Austria. Being based in Italy would actually be more convenient for him. Also bear in mind that Wolff was not an established team principal 10 years ago.

As for Horner - Red Bull have been less successful than Ferrari during the hybrid era. Why would Ferrari want him?



Build a new one.....Ferrari has the money.

Right...because Ferrari grows money on trees :roll



The wind tunnel would remain for the production cars but the F1 design office would close and transfer to England.

Do you mean the road cars?

Which wind tunnel would be used for the F1 cars? What happens to all the facilities in the Maranello design office?


Mercedes AMG does it....the chassis is built at Brackley....while the engine at Germany at AMG.....not so inefficiencient is it? Ferrari could do the same....no?

The Merc engines are designed and built in Northamptonshire.


Honda does the same thing.....builds the engine in Japan....then it gets transfered to Milton Keynes.

Ferrari can do too.

And Honda have won 0 championships since returning to F1.

[wappad]

I totally agree. Da Costa was a great designer as we can see the long lasting effects of his designs at Mercedes. Ferrari’s big mistake was to fire him. That was Di Montezemolo’s big blunder. Who can name the chief designer at Ferrari today. I can’t. Is it Simone Resta? I also feel that the death of Marchionne is having its effects now. The team was on the rise under him and now it’s hitting some tough times. But Mercedes was not great either during the V10 era. F1 does go in cycles and when the right team gels it will be unstoppable. So, should we say Ferrari is a horrible team? Absolutely not. They’ve been top three for most years since their dominance. So, why are they so heavily criticized? When they don’t win the championship, they blame the team being Italian. The team was 90% Italian during the Brawn days and were based 100% in Italy. But don’t forget we also had the best driver of all time. Let’s be patient. They have the right driver now. Just my opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1 :thumb

[jgonzalesm6]

Wolff has 2 homes. One in the UK and one in Switzerland. He also spends a lot of his time skiing in Austria. Being based in Italy would actually be more convenient for him. Also bear in mind that Wolff was not an established team principal 10 years ago.

As for Horner - Red Bull have been less successful than Ferrari during the hybrid era. Why would Ferrari want him?

Wolff - that's your opinion of Wolff being based in Italy might be more convenient for him. IMO, I doubt it.

Horner - as TP, he's better than what Ferrari, 3 team principals since the hrbrid era, has had. RedBull as a whole is ONLY handicapped by the engine which is why Mercedes and Ferrari DON'T sell them theirs. Had RedBull had a Ferrari or Mercedes engine since the hybrid era, then the WDC and WCC titles would be different.





Right...because Ferrari grows money on trees :roll

Agnelli, Philip Morris, $100 million in historic money, Sponsors.....so yeah.





Do you mean the road cars?

Which wind tunnel would be used for the F1 cars? What happens to all the facilities in the Maranello design office?

F1 wind tunnel in Maranello along with CFD. Road cars would use same wind tunnel. Car production office would remain in Maranello. F1 design office in England.




The Merc engines are designed and built in Northamptonshire.



And Honda have won 0 championships since returning to F1

It is my understanding, the V-6 portion of the F1 engine is built in Germany at AMG.

Honda entered the turbo hybrid era in 2015 with ZERO help as an engine manufacturer. Since the end of 2019, they currently beat Ferrari, and Renault in hp AND going into 2020.

[Gerhard Berger]

Wolff - that's your opinion of Wolff being based in Italy might be more convenient for him. IMO, I doubt it.

So then please explain why it's more convenient for an Austrian with a home in Switzerland to be living in the UK?


Horner - as TP, he's better than what Ferrari, 3 team principals since the hrbrid era, has had.
Then why have his results been worse?


RedBull as a whole is ONLY handicapped by the engine which is why Mercedes and Ferrari DON'T sell them theirs. Had RedBull had a Ferrari or Mercedes engine since the hybrid era, then the WDC and WCC titles would be different.

Pure conjecture and a very convenient excuse for Red Bull.

Let me ask you this - what do you think is holding back Ferrari this season - the chassis or the engine? :-)


Agnelli, Philip Morris, $100 million in historic money, Sponsors.....so yeah.

These are all businesses. They won't throw money around unless there's a benefit and a potential return on investment.

There's also the incoming budget cap to contend with.


F1 wind tunnel in Maranello along with CFD. Road cars would use same wind tunnel. Car production office would remain in Maranello. F1 design office in England.

Design office in England but wind tunnel and CFD in Maranello? :lol

Anyone working in the design office would have to spend at least half their time in Maranello!


It is my understanding, the V-6 portion of the F1 engine is built in Germany at AMG.

It's built in Brixworth.


Honda entered the turbo hybrid era in 2015 with ZERO help as an engine manufacturer. Since the end of 2019, they currently beat Ferrari, and Renault in hp AND going into 2020.

Honda works team have finished behind Ferrari works team every season for the last 20 years. They also have 0 points so far this season. Nice try! :thumb

[JPZ]

I totally agree. Da Costa was a great designer as we can see the long lasting effects of his designs at Mercedes. Ferrari’s big mistake was to fire him. That was Di Montezemolo’s big blunder. Who can name the chief designer at Ferrari today. I can’t. Is it Simone Resta? I also feel that the death of Marchionne is having its effects now. The team was on the rise under him and now it’s hitting some tough times. But Mercedes was not great either during the V10 era. F1 does go in cycles and when the right team gels it will be unstoppable. So, should we say Ferrari is a horrible team? Absolutely not. They’ve been top three for most years since their dominance. So, why are they so heavily criticized? When they don’t win the championship, they blame the team being Italian. The team was 90% Italian during the Brawn days and were based 100% in Italy. But don’t forget we also had the best driver of all time. Let’s be patient. They have the right driver now. Just my opinion.


Agreed :thumb

[jgonzalesm6]

So then please explain why it's more convenient for an Austrian with a home in Switzerland to be living in the UK?

Susie Wolff



Then why have his results been worse?

Renualt engine since the start of 2014....unreliable and low in hp. Since the move to Honda, results have gotten better. Max beat both Ferrari drivers last year with the Honda PU. Albon was a rookie last year with RedBull.




Pure conjecture and a very convenient excuse for Red Bull.


It's not an excuse....it's merely the truth. Not bad for an energy drink company whom was the only company to start with 2 F1 teams since their start into F1.....but's that's your opinion.


Let me ask you this - what do you think is holding back Ferrari this season - the chassis or the engine? :-)

The eero and the engine is holding back the SF1000 this season.....but mainly the engine. New aero package to arrive this weekend.




These are all businesses. They won't throw money around unless there's a benefit and a potential return on investment.

There's also the incoming budget cap to contend with.


Understood. Business's or sponsors come and go with Ferrari of the likes of Santandar, WeiChai, Bridgestone, and others.

Understood on the budget cap.



Design office in England but wind tunnel and CFD in Maranello? :lol

Anyone working in the design office would have to spend at least half their time in Maranello!

Communications and technology have come a long way.




Honda works team have finished behind Ferrari works team every season for the last 20 years. They also have 0 points so far this season. Nice try! :thumb

Honda is not a works team this season but an engine supplier. They've progressed alot faster than Ferrari in this Turbo Hybrid era...especially when they switched from Mclaren to Toro Rosso and then to RedBull.

Again, Max beat both Ferrari's last year. This year look's promising for the RedBull team.

[Gerhard Berger]

Susie Wolff

Has Susie Wolff stated anywhere that she's unwilling to relocate to Italy?

Her job is based in Monaco, so why would her husband's job need to be based in the UK?


Renualt engine since the start of 2014....unreliable and low in hp. Since the move to Honda, results have gotten better. Max beat both Ferrari drivers last year with the Honda PU. Albon was a rookie last year with RedBull.

They still only won 3 races last year (1 less than the year before with a Renault PU). They are still way off Mercedes this year.


It's not an excuse....it's merely the truth. Not bad for an energy drink company whom was the only company to start with 2 F1 teams since their start into F1.....but's that's your opinion.

The truth is they've been worse than Ferrari in the hybrid era. Why are you so sure Horner will deliver results for Ferrari?


The eero and the engine is holding back the SF1000 this season.....but mainly the engine. New aero package to arrive this weekend.

So if the engine is what's holding the team back, what's the benefit of moving the design office to the UK? The engine will still be designed and manufactured in Italy by the same people who are currently doing this!


Communications and technology have come a long way.

For a highly technical job, it is still very inefficient and cumbersome to have to discuss these kinds of issues over the phone or through screen sharing and emails.


Honda is not a works team this season but an engine supplier. They've progressed alot faster than Ferrari in this Turbo Hybrid era...especially when they switched from Mclaren to Toro Rosso and then to RedBull.

Again, Max beat both Ferrari's last year. This year look's promising for the RedBull team.

I'll wait until the beat Ferrari.

[jgonzalesm6]

Has Susie Wolff stated anywhere that she's unwilling to relocate to Italy?

Her job is based in Monaco, so why would her husband's job need to be based in the UK?

As of 2018, her job is based in Monaco.


They still only won 3 races last year (1 less than the year before with a Renault PU). They are still way off Mercedes this year.

EVERYONE is way off Mercedes...since the start of this hybrid era. They are the standard. They are unrelenting and persistent.


The truth is they've been worse than Ferrari in the hybrid era. Why are you so sure Horner will deliver results for Ferrari?

It's not just Horner, but Newey and the whole team as well. I'm sure if Ferrari were based in England and had Horner as TP along with Newey...then Ferrari would have a winning chassis, engine, suspension and PU.

Plus they have been consistent in staying as opposed to going thru TP's though the hybrid era. Change in TP's, 3 of them with Ferrari, is not good.


So if the engine is what's holding the team back, what's the benefit of moving the design office to the UK? The engine will still be designed and manufactured in Italy by the same people who are currently doing this!

It's worked for Mercedes and it's also worked for RedBull in the last year since the move to Honda.


For a highly technical job, it is still very inefficient and cumbersome to have to discuss these kinds of issues over the phone or through screen sharing and emails.

During the COVID-19.....drastic times call fro drastic measures???


I'll wait until the beat Ferrari.

Me too....could be this year as well.

[Silent Bob]

Ferrari finally has a driver that we've locked up for 5 years, and he's going to be very good. Whatever the case with Binotto, he's also shown that he is a very good engineer... let him grow into this position. The last thing we need right now is to tear everything apart again and start over. With Sainz coming, we should have driver harmony. Let the guys at Ferrari work through this, keep the structure as is, hire more guys if needed. Don't tear everything apart again. That's what's hurt Ferrari the most the last 10 years.... we've shed so much talent.

[Gerhard Berger]

As of 2018, her job is based in Monaco.

Right, so we've established that she's prepared to take a job on Monaco. So why would Susie Wolff prevent Toto Wolff taking a job in Maranello as head of Ferrari? :Hmm


EVERYONE is way off Mercedes...since the start of this hybrid era. They are the standard. They are unrelenting and persistent.

Right, but Ferrari have been the next best team. Not Red Bull.




It's not just Horner, but Newey and the whole team as well. I'm sure if Ferrari were based in England and had Horner as TP along with Newey...then Ferrari would have a winning chassis, engine, suspension and PU.

Ferrari produced a better chassis than Red Bull (designed by Newey) in 2015, 2017 and 2018.

Not sure how you think Horner and Newey would improve the engine. Neither of them are engine guys.


Plus they have been consistent in staying as opposed to going thru TP's though the hybrid era. Change in TP's, 3 of them with Ferrari, is not good.

That is due to the Ferrari and FIAT board. Relocating the design office to England won't change those internal politics.




It's worked for Mercedes and it's also worked for RedBull in the last year since the move to Honda.

My point is, if the Ferrari's problem lay with the engine, what's the benefit of moving the chassis design team to England? the engine will still be useless.

Mercedes chassis and engine is based in Northamptonshire. Red Bull havn't won anything nor even fought for a title. They havn't proven anything.


During the COVID-19.....drastic times call fro drastic measures???

Most teams were under lockdown during Covid.

[Tony]

I honestly think the bonus that Ferrari gets for being in this sport since the beginning is hindering them... if they were at risk of not breaking even, they would be searching for the best employees and would put politics aside, or would sink.... I'm not a fan of handouts, it stifles competitiveness...

[JPZ]

I honestly think the bonus that Ferrari gets for being in this sport since the beginning is hindering them... if they were at risk of not breaking even, they would be searching for the best employees and would put politics aside, or would sink.... I'm not a fan of handouts, it stifles competitiveness...

What exactly are the politics within Ferrari?

[Brembo]

Ferrari finally has a driver that we've locked up for 5 years, and he's going to be very good. Whatever the case with Binotto, he's also shown that he is a very good engineer... let him grow into this position. The last thing we need right now is to tear everything apart again and start over. With Sainz coming, we should have driver harmony. Let the guys at Ferrari work through this, keep the structure as is, hire more guys if needed. Don't tear everything apart again. That's what's hurt Ferrari the most the last 10 years.... we've shed so much talent.

Well said indeed! Just Binotto's saying 3 races before Ferrari gets it right winning wise should not have been said . The team and drivers need harmony in the form of incentive . Binotto needs only to do what he does and knows best. . Public relations is just not one of his good points, Neither the team or the fans want negativity.

[aroutis]

Would that please most if it meant we won titles?

Does it matter to anyone that Ferrari are Italian and based in Italy, does it matter if they make their own engine?

Would they even be Ferrari anymore if they did?

I don't even know how to answer this.
Ok, how about ... no?

[Brembo]

Ferrari managed to get a car that got Charles to come in 2nd. " Made in Italy! "

[FerrariF60]

Ferrari managed to get a car that got Charles to come in 2nd. " Made in Italy! "

with a TON of luck.....and NOT on merit

we're actually the 4-5th fastest team right now.....IT'S SAD, SO SAD.....

[chinmay]

with a TON of luck.....and NOT on merit

we're actually the 4-5th fastest team right now.....IT'S SAD, SO SAD.....

6th fastest. Leclerc and Vettel were P10 and P11 in Q2. Ricciardo in Renault was ahead of both of them and Ocon in the other Renault messed up his lap which allowed one Ferrari to progress to Q3. So Mercedes, Red Bull, Racing Point, McLaren, Renault and then comes Ferrari.

[Brembo]

6th fastest. Leclerc and Vettel were P10 and P11 in Q2. Ricciardo in Renault was ahead of both of them and Ocon in the other Renault messed up his lap which allowed one Ferrari to progress to Q3. So Mercedes, Red Bull, Racing Point, McLaren, Renault and then comes Ferrari.

So Merc Bottas 1st, and then comes Ferrari 2nd !!! That's how the race and points ended. Charles even beat Lewis and his rocket. Lewis started ahead of every driver but for his team mate. Made in Italy!!! To bad the German again spun out of the pack or Ferrari would have had even more points. I hope Binotto isn't mad at Charles for coming in 2nd. before the 4th race"":rotfl

[Cavallino]

I have been on record as saying i think Ferrari should hire the best talent, end of story.

But think about this, Ferrari has a GREAT Italian engineer, Aldo Costa. And we know what happened there. Moving to England doesn't fix that.

[Scuderia27]

In my way of seing this, The mercedes capital founded the mercedes F1 in England. Although it is sucessfull they should have show some pride in being german and at least build the motor in germany. Although it is sucessful it lacks "panache".

I believe Ferrari must be strong in the political side of this. Mercedes got his starting advantage for the Hybrid era ( if 1b£ thrown at the development of the motor or sth else i don't care )

I get the concerns for not having success, but with the exception of Aldo Costa, i believe that everyone that didn't want to stay and left would never stay for long and personnaly i don't mind it. I have an exception: the "new stepney" in this PU saga. DO we even found out who was the guy?

Is he working for mercedes? Is he responsible for some idea that propelled the mercedes PU to be even better?

And this is the main problem of having English or prone to move to england engineers. They will find everytime they want some team that would "accept" their privelege information. The reverse is difficult, it will be even harder when budget limits are in order.


Ferrari has 1 year and a half to prepare 2022 because right now with all the limits to evolution on the car / motors we probably won't be better than 3rd. But 1st has to understand what is going on.


There are competent people in every place, of course england has a better tradition with the constructors so it is easier to develop talent there, but i believe Ferrari can pull it off without the england prone personell.

[jgonzalesm6]

Opportunity knocking????----->Could or should Ferrari look into taking over the Honda F1 engine dept. at Milton Keynes??? The people are there. The facility is there. Not a whole lotta money to invest.

I doubt RedBull will take it over as an option.

[Alonsomaniac]

Ferrari is Ferrari and everything in or on a Ferrari is Ferrari, That's how it always was and that's how it will always be. Ferrari, from Maranello. Period.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari is Ferrari and everything in or on a Ferrari is Ferrari, That's how it always was and that's how it will always be. Ferrari, from Maranello. Period.

Schumacher, Todt, Brawn, Byrne were not from Maranello or Italy for that matter. It order to be great, you need great minds working together.

[Brembo]

So between Honda & Merc who gets the credit for the success Japan or Germany?

[JHAMMER]

So between Honda & Merc who gets the credit for the success Japan or Germany?

Who cares they are not FERRARI!

[Brembo]

Who cares they are not FERRARI!

Exactly right. Maranello is where it counts. Ferrari is Italy , Enzo is Italy.

[jgonzalesm6]

Who cares they are not FERRARI!


Exactly right. Maranello is where it counts. Ferrari is Italy , Enzo is Italy.

Of which, Ferrari and Italy are not into hybridization......which is why it has taken 7 years plus to get this turbo hybrid formula right given the token system an engine freezes.

Ferrari should have never agreed to this deal....but hindsight is 20/20.

[tpe]

Well, they didn't get anything right3, did they?
They found a loophole, they exploited it badly and they return to 2014, 2015 at best.
As for the chassis, apart from the novel intakes a few years back, they are nowhere...
Suspension? Ages behind Merc and TH
Tyre management? Even worse

Let's be honest. Ferrari was hit HARD from the test bans. It looks like they don't have the necessary tools for the 2020 F1, be it CFD, benches, or simulators. Other teams invested on them. Even if Ferrari introduce them todhay6, they will need years to master them.

Let's just hope that they won't repeat the 2014 engine formula mistakes in the 2026 engine rules.

[jgonzalesm6]

Well, they didn't get anything right3, did they?
They found a loophole, they exploited it badly and they return to 2014, 2015 at best.
As for the chassis, apart from the novel intakes a few years back, they are nowhere...
Suspension? Ages behind Merc and TH
Tyre management? Even worse

Let's be honest. Ferrari was hit HARD from the test bans. It looks like they don't have the necessary tools for the 2020 F1, be it CFD, benches, or simulators. Other teams invested on them. Even if Ferrari introduce them todhay6, they will need years to master them.

Let's just hope that they won't repeat the 2014 engine formula mistakes in the 2026 engine rules.


soooo, tell us how you really feel :-D

[tpe]

Angry!
Hahahaha

Honestly, I just believe that they are 10 years behind the rest...

[Brembo]

Of which, Ferrari and Italy are not into hybridization......which is why it has taken 7 years plus to get this turbo hybrid formula right given the token system an engine freezes.

Ferrari should have never agreed to this deal....but hindsight is 20/20.

There was no way Ferrari could have prevented Todt from getting to be the FIA boss. The midget just followed Michael to Germany and joined Merc undercover. He's leaving town the end of this year . Maybe the FIA will chill out with regards to working so closely with Michael's former German team. I;m sure Todt had real problems with Lewis' success and the 91. Those 10 seconds and trying the 2 points was his way of showing he tried.

[aroutis]

To answer the original question,in a globalized enterprises world, it should not be about where a company is.
To that end, of course it does not pose an issue that Ferrari is based at Maranello.
Not to the slightest.

Attracting talents, or leaders is not about where your HQ is, not when we're talking huge organizations. It's about your structure and of course what you offer.
So , looking at the elephant in the room, what's wrong with Ferrari ?
Simple as a,b,c, it's all about the management (as it's been said oh, so many times).
When people, specially leaders, see the mess of the latest years, the "sack 'em all" mode this organization have been working under, do you really believe that money will be the only thing that will bring them on board?
No-one in their right minds will come to Ferrari if they believe that after a period of X months or 1-2 years top , they will be sacked because something will be wrong and the easy solution will be picked.
Great organizations are getting greater when a safety environment is fostered, where people learn to not be afraid the mistakes and embrace accepting the fact that mistakes will be made especially in an environment of high pressure (hint,racing in F1 is such an environment!). Is Ferrari such a place?
We all know what Ferrari means to Italy (and not just Italy). But that is a problem for MANAGEMENT to solve. The higher the level of management, the higher the responsibility of them to act as deflectors to the pressure. No-one says that people at Ferrari should not be fired or responsibility should not be laid upon those that make mistake. But that's one thing, another is that people feel unsafe.
So, create a safe place, put key people in the right posts, the rest will come.