2022 Belgian Grand Prix - Race Thread

[alfaromeo]

Better 2 than 3 in the end 2022./. That must Ferrari focus

[stasera]

im tired of seeing another disaster every race

[Hornet]

Well, the penalty is just additional salt to a a deep wound we suffered today.

Was hoping the warmer temperature would suit us, but it didn't.
Instead, we were fighting with Merc.

[tifosi1993]

Under Binotto's "leadership", Ferrari haven't had a single positive season. And what's happening this year is inexcusable. Toto was crying about porpoising and got the FIA to raise the ride height. Horner was complaining about it while making sure Red Bull remain competitive.
Binotto on the other was squeaking about the budget cap. He wasn't even as vocal as Horner.

Monza will be terrible and whatever result befall them at Monza, they totally deserve it.

[Juan]

Where did this performance gap came from? today we were insanely slower than RB.

[elnano14]

Leclerc said on the radio that he didn't want to risk the pit stop. Yet they still decided to pit him
Can't wait for Italy newspapers tomorrow

[tifosi1993]

We had lot of time to develop 2022 cars, we were starting ahead but still we ended up into this situation.
Look at Mercs how to ruled 2014-2021.

Now it’s RB era again. I do see Max win multiple titles with this team.

Unfortunately ferrari here destroying themselves & drivers. (Alonso/Vettel & now leclerc)

Ferrari should be called driver's grave yard. Schumacher was clever and brought the whole team with him. So if one day Max decides to try Ferrari, he must bring all the talents from Red Bull.

Cause Ferrari's homegrown "talents" are just not cutting it. Cause Italians must lead Ferrari or something like that.

[JPZ]

Unnecessary risk, lost points … seems then TD has affected us badly look at HAAS also, which is the most similar car to ours

Mercedes successful with their politics again.

[nani_s23]

Ferrari should be called driver's grave yard. Schumacher was clever and brought the whole team with him. So if one day Max decides to try Ferrari, he must bring all the talents from Red Bull.

Cause Ferrari's homegrown "talents" are just not cutting it. Cause Italians must lead Ferrari or something like that.

Rightly said. I don’t see Ferrari winning titles with current team Crew.

[DS_ZA]

Binotto: "No need to change in the summer break" btw

Yep. Questions were raised, our boss responded. At some point, Ferrari has to pull the plug. There are plenty of decent personnel in all motorsports. The fear of a change when it's needed is holding us back. This season is done. Next season is at a huge risk with current technical personnel who continues to operate at this level of efficiency. The baby and its prem must be ditched. It's time. Excuse the tone, this truly sucks all the way back to here in Soith Africa as well...

[Red Empire]

Clowns!!!

This must be Ferrari's song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsJwNALZ6QI

[SB92]

Rightly said. I don’t see Ferrari winning titles with current team Crew.

Leave alone titles, we will be struggling to get podiums at the remaining races. Atleast under Domenicali and Arrivabene, Ferrari fought for titles on multiple occasions, even if the usual technical and strategic blunders still occurred. Binotto's reign has been an unmitigated disaster, but he must be sleeping with Elkann, gets away with everything.

[elnano14]

The team didn't even tell Charles about his penalty. He only found out when being interviewed. I hate those morons

[jgonzalesm6]

This must be Ferrari's song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsJwNALZ6QI

No, it's the Benny Hill theme song.

[Schumiklub]

The team didn't even tell Charles about his penalty. He only found out when being interviewed. I hate those morons

I watched the whole race on board with Charles and listened to team radio. They tell Charles lies all the time. Like RB has higher tyre deg. Our pace is comparable to RB, lap times are good (2-3 seconds slower than people around him) and so on.

[drax]

https://twitter.com/sharr__leclerc/status/1563899752214802432?s=21&t=LeBL6U2Ez4j0eprcebLNfg

This pitwall is just miserable

[MSC Fan]

I honestly think that this has been the most embarrassing year for the team in the last 2 decades as far as sheer incompetence is concerned. More than 2008, 2009, 2010, 2014, 2018, and 2020. Forget about this title, I am honestly starting to doubt whether we can win another race this year.

[racingbradley]

It's a pity we lost Sergio Marchionne. He stirred things up when he came to the races and didn't suffer fools.:-s

[stasera]

new regulations undermine our pace, we look slower than mercedes

in France, Max was not able to pass Charles with DRS for 11 laps. Their straight line speed advantage was faded completely. but now we are slower than Mercedes cars

unfortunatelly, mercs will be in front of us at the end of the year.


it's possible end

Constructors: RB, Mercs, Ferrari
Drivers: Max, Perez, Russell, Sainz, Leclerc

[WS6TransAm01]

Binotto: "No need to change in the summer break" btw

Who is paying him to lose?

This level of failure can’t come from incompetence alone, it has to be intentional.

[RossTheBoss]

Leave alone titles, we will be struggling to get podiums at the remaining races. Atleast under Domenicali and Arrivabene, Ferrari fought for titles on multiple occasions, even if the usual technical and strategic blunders still occurred. Binotto's reign has been an unmitigated disaster, but he must be sleeping with Elkann, gets away with everything.
Binotto is the worst TP Ferrari have EVER had. When he got Ferrari caught out on the fuel meter TD in 19', that should've told everyone that he was a total buffoon. Now, it's happened again. One of Ferrari's advantages is found out in the grey area of the rules, and Binotto had no plan on how to avoid an embarrassing pace drop that would reveal it.

Fire him. Show him and the rest of the management the door. Enough is enough. And before one his pitiful apologists asks "bbbbbut, who will replace Binotto and his band of clowns? Other teams will hire them!". No front running team in their right minds is going to hire the likes of Binotto and Rueda. They're not gluttons for embarrassment like the Ferrari board are.

[stasera]

Who is paying him to lose?

This level of failure can’t come from incompetence alone, it has to be intentional.

of course yes, maybe fizzy drinkers pay to him or to our team

[RossTheBoss]

Who is paying him to lose?

This level of failure can’t come from incompetence alone, it has to be intentional.
It comes down to money.

They say you get what you pay for, and it's no secret that Binotto makes far less than Wolff and Horner. The latter are businessmen, who want to do whatever it takes to win, by looking for only the best, pushing them, and firing dead weight. That's how you have to run a race team. Like a business. Because that's what it is.

Schumacher, Todt, Brawn, and Byrne weren't cheap. Hell, neither were other techs like Costa and Allison, the latter of whom got poached by Mercedes. And that's it, the dream team was as expensive AF, and Elkaan and the rest of the Ferrari board believe they're above doing that, even as Red Bull poach like crazy. Ferrari these days would rather ride the coattails of old success, and pay Binotto 1/3 (if that) of the likes of a qualified TP.

[paneristi]

Disgrace performance from the whole team (except the drivers)

Well said

[stasera]

sainz looked fast as hell, he drove the car in its limits. but the car was shamefully slow as hell

[SB92]

Binotto is the worst TP Ferrari have EVER had. When he got Ferrari caught out on the fuel meter TD in 19', that should've told everyone that he was a total buffoon. Now, it's happened again. One of Ferrari's advantages is found out in the grey area of the rules, and Binotto had no plan on how to avoid an embarrassing pace drop that would reveal it.

Fire him. Show him and the rest of the management the door. Enough is enough. And before one his pitiful apologists asks "bbbbbut, who will replace Binotto and his band of clowns? Other teams will hire them!". No front running team in their right minds is going to hire the likes of Binotto and Rueda. They're not gluttons for embarrassment like the Ferrari board are.

No one will hire clowns like these. Im pretty sure that next year's car is going to be a dud, just like how our pathetic attempts to cheat in 2019 got found out and resulted in an absolutely disgraceful 2020. Every big team pushes the envelope but only a fool like Binotto gets caught.

[SB92]

sainz looked fast as hell, he drove the car in its limits. but the car was shamefully slow as hell

Its very strange how this pathetically poor race pace didnt show up in FP. Something very weird is going on with this team, on mediums, we were absolutely atrocious although things didnt look half as bad on friday.

I was expecting Verstappen to win anyway, but holy hell, the gap to RB in race pace is very demoralizing.

[RossTheBoss]

No one will hire clowns like these. Im pretty sure that next year's car is going to be a dud, just like how our pathetic attempts to cheat in 2019 got found out and resulted in an absolutely disgraceful 2020. Every big team pushes the envelope but only a fool like Binotto gets caught.
That's what happens when you try to go cheap on personnel in a race team.

What made Ferrari so great in the past, to put it bluntly, was money. Money was no object, and so they'd hire the best people possible.

Horner isn't cheap. Max Verstappen isn't cheap. Adrian Newey and his team aren't cheap. The dozens of Mercedes engineers Red Bull poached weren't cheap.

Binotto and Mekies are cheap, and boy does it show.

[wisepie]

Another messy race and it showed on the drivers' faces, what the hell were they thinking pitting Charles for attempted but failed FL, then getting a 5sec penalty for speeding in the pitlane and dropping him down to P6, after he'd passed Alonso. Maybe too much downforce led to our lack of speed but the whole race was another depressing and embarrassing spectacle. At least Carlos managed a podium but for Charles he was sabotaged once again. Now any WDC/WDC hopes are gone, we'll be lucky to get another podium at this rate.:-s

[stasera]

Its very strange how this pathetically poor race pace didnt show up in FP. Something very weird is going on with this ream, on mediums, we were absolutely atrocious although things didnt look half as bad on friday.

I was expecting Verstappen to win anyway, but holy hell, the gap to RB in race pace is very demoralizing.


as I mentioned before, (I will attach the message below) we are neither closer to RB and nor we are fastest car as before the summer break. if you remember first and second races specially arabia, RB had incredible advantage on the straight line. but we were faster in the corners.

however it changed gradually with the time passes, RB lost their straight line speed advantage against us. well as we remember, Max could not pass through Charles with DRS for 11 laps in France. they were faster than us with 4-6 km advantage.

but with the new regulation for mercs, now we are slower than mercs. I don't think that redbull gain anything against us, we lost. and mercs look gain some pace. but that regulation hit us dramatically.

dont create the best car, make better lobbying on fia



new regulations undermine our pace, we look slower than mercedes

in France, Max was not able to pass Charles with DRS for 11 laps. Their straight line speed advantage was faded completely. but now we are slower than Mercedes cars

unfortunatelly, mercs will be in front of us at the end of the year.


it's possible end

Constructors: RB, Mercs, Ferrari
Drivers: Max, Perez, Russell, Sainz, Leclerc

[Portago]

Love is fleeting...

8078

[SilverSpeed]

Hope this will cheer you up


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

Feels just like I'm watching a F1 race :rotfl.

[stefa]

Hope this will cheer you up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MK6TXMsvgQg

Feels just like I'm watching a F1 race :rotfl.

It instantly brought smile to my face!!!

[paneristi]

Another messy race and it showed on the drivers' faces, what the hell were they thinking pitting Charles for attempted but failed FL, then getting a 5sec penalty for speeding in the pitlane and dropping him down to P6, after he'd passed Alonso. Maybe too much downforce led to our lack of speed but the whole race was another depressing and embarrassing spectacle. At least Carlos managed a podium but for Charles he was sabotaged once again. Now any WDC/WDC hopes are gone, we'll be lucky to get another podium at this rate.:-s successfully ruining the legendary name. Back then Enzo sold cars to finance the race. Now, they’re using F1 to sell red merchandise

[paolo lalli]

As I said in a previous post enjoy the 2nd half of the clown show lost for words and I don't care.Ferrari are getting what they totally deserve , in every way possible, can't wait for the excuses and reasoning fot there spectacular incompitence I hope the italian and global media roast those idiots on pit wall.

[phsyklone]

From the drivers comments it seems like set up and tyres are to blame. Every time we have inclimate weather we loose our direction in terms of set up

[phsyklone]

From the drivers comments it seems like set up and tyres are to blame. Every time we have inclimate weather we loose our direction in terms of set up. I honestly don't think red bull took a leap forward its more like ferrari took a step back in terms of set up and weekend anticipations

[jgonzalesm6]

So....

Max Verstappen is 93 points clear of his closest rival. If he can extend that with 37 points by the end of Singapore in 3 races time, he will be 130 points clear. Then, with just 5 races to go (5x 25 points + 5x 1point FL = 130 points) he will be World Champion

[nani_s23]

Binotto on the championship:

"The gap to Max is very high. It will not be sufficient for Charles to win all the races, or to finish ahead of him. So we count on Max not finishing races."

Super TP we have. :clap

[nani_s23]

Binotto:

"We have to look at the weekend data. We had problems with tyre degradation, so it's not a problem of aerodynamic efficiency or power."

"It's more related to how the tyres are managed. It's a lesson to be learned, we'll do our best."


2 years lessons learnt isn’t enough to this guy.

[nani_s23]

Binotto:

"We are disappointed and somehow unhappy. Well done to Red Bull - they have been really fast all weekend."

"They have been faster than anyone else. They have a competitive package and a competitive team capable of developing the car."

This guy is saying or accepting we can’t have competitive team.

[F2008]

This is a season full of disappointments. Either Ferrari is fastest and somehow manage to mess it up, or they are completely outperformed by Red Bull and still mess it up.

[nani_s23]

Binotto:

"Mercedes has improved in the last few races. They finished behind us today and this is important for us, but we have to consider them for the next races."

"But more than the others, we have to focus on ourselves and push on development."


Now he realised that our 2nd position is under threat & also we are fighting with Mercs.

Congrats to Max for WDC & RB for WCC title. Super team.

Being fighting till the end last year & coming up with super car this season (I think they will dominate till 2025) really hats off.

[nani_s23]

Carlos Sainz on Monza:

“Monza should favour Red Bull.

[SS454]

Binotto:

"We have to look at the weekend data. We had problems with tyre degradation, so it's not a problem of aerodynamic efficiency or power."

"It's more related to how the tyres are managed. It's a lesson to be learned, we'll do our best."


2 years lessons learnt isn’t enough to this guy.


Tires had nothing to do with the top speed disadvantage Ferrari had.

[tifosi1993]

Binotto on the championship:

"The gap to Max is very high. It will not be sufficient for Charles to win all the races, or to finish ahead of him. So we count on Max not finishing races."

Super TP we have. :clap

Funny guy. Free pit stop under the SC in Silverstone but they refused to pit him. Pitted him for hards in Hungary when all the hard tyre runners suffered massively with graining. And he was leading the race on both occasions. Not to mention Monaco, a track where overtaking is pretty much impossible, they pitted him twice in span of 4 laps which resulted in Charles going from P1 to P4.

But there were no mistakes or nothing needed to be changed, according to our funny TP.

[nani_s23]

Binotto feels there is “no need at all” to rethink Ferrari’s strategy decisions.

“If I look back at the season, there are a lot of outside perceptions compared to the reality.”

“Sometimes things are perceived as a mistake, when we are not doing a mistake.”


Binotto says that Ferrari has deficits in the efficiency of aero and the power unit compared to Red Bull:

"I am particularly concerned that they drove with less downforce and were still able to set strong times in the middle sector, where you need downforce."

In addition, Red Bull was also better in terms of tyre wear, which according to Binotto was the main reason for Ferrari‘s loss:

"We have to investigate this and sort it out for for the next races."


Already in Zandvoort, Binotto said that Ferrari wants to be closer again. Despite the large gap in the championship, the team will not give up on the season.

Binotto: "Everything we learn about our weaknesses this year will also help us with next year's car."



So next year never ends for Ferrari…… wait continues

[nani_s23]

Ferrari Jock Clear affirms that nothing had to be changed on the F1-75 to comply with the TD.

But he also warned: "We will only know in a few races whether we have to set our car a bit higher compared to before. For that we need the experience of several tracks."

So the TD could still become a factor that causes changes at the front in the future. In Zandvoort, teams could again be forced to drive higher than desired.

Mercedes engineers fear: "Then we could experience a second Spa.."

@AMus

[SS454]

Binotto feels there is “no need at all” to rethink Ferrari’s strategy decisions.

“If I look back at the season, there are a lot of outside perceptions compared to the reality.”

“Sometimes things are perceived as a mistake, when we are not doing a mistake.”


Binotto says that Ferrari has deficits in the efficiency of aero and the power unit compared to Red Bull:

"I am particularly concerned that they drove with less downforce and were still able to set strong times in the middle sector, where you need downforce."

In addition, Red Bull was also better in terms of tyre wear, which according to Binotto was the main reason for Ferrari‘s loss:

"We have to investigate this and sort it out for for the next races."


Already in Zandvoort, Binotto said that Ferrari wants to be closer again. Despite the large gap in the championship, the team will not give up on the season.

Binotto: "Everything we learn about our weaknesses this year will also help us with next year's car."



So next year never ends for Ferrari…… wait continues

So one minute he says its not down to aero efficiency, and then says Ferrari lacks aero efficiency compared to Red Bull? And if he can't see all the mistakes Ferrari are doing, then he really needs to find a new job. Ferrari's lack of accountability is appalling.

[nani_s23]

Spa is a special case in terms of car ride height because of Eau Rouge and a nasty bump in the Stavelot corners. The teams have to raise their cars five to six millimetres higher than usual. This would have happened even without the TD!
In fact, this time the ride height had to be raised even more than the engineers had calculated. This was due to the bump between Turn 14 and 15, which put Ferrari and Mercedes in a window where their aerodynamics could no longer deliver the downforce they were used to.As a consequence, both Ferrari and Mercedes had to trim the suspension harder than usual, which also cost mechanical grip. The Red Bull felt comfortable with more ride height and therefore also reached its normal form.So the TD against bouncing had practically no influence on the balance of power in Spa.”

@AMus

[nani_s23]

Fernando Alonso on Ferrari:

“When Charles came to box for fastest lap, I was quite surprised. Ferrari always does strange strategies.”

[nani_s23]

Binotto is particularly suspicious of the extent of the upgrades that are coming from Red Bull. Binotto told the FIA to take a closer look when monitoring the budget limits.Red Bull is still planning to introduce a new monocoque in the season's final phase to get rid of the weight.

Binotto: "We could never afford to develop a lightweight chassis or any chassis during the season because the budget doesn't allow it."
Binotto: "I would be very surprised if that was possible for other teams. You have to ask yourself whether the monitoring is sufficient. Unfortunately, only a few people at the FIA keep an eye on it."
Binotto: "That has to improve for the future. It would be really bad if the championship is decided by the financial rules."


:ouch:ouch:ouch:ouch

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari could not organise a drunken party at a wine bar, with free booze.The only team that will loose races for stupidity is ferrari.Red bull will not fail max will not fail, Binotto has already failed.

[nani_s23]

In my opinion ferrari got hit by new TD. That’s clearly evident in our S2 & sudden loss of pace.

As usual Binotto is not agreeing & hiding the truth.

On the other hand with this new TD, RB got benefitted in terms of their car operating window. They can now set up the car aggressively.

Mercs thought it would bring them closer to RB & Ferrari. Instead failed to reach RB, but now caught ferrari they can think of 2nd in WCC with this awful car.

[stefa]

Ferrari with this management will nevet win any championship!

[nani_s23]

Ferrari with this management will nevet win any championship!

My point is the same.

Binotto may be good at Technical Dept, hence send him to the same place & bring in strong leadership Principal & Strategy crew to the team.

[nani_s23]

I have one question

Mercs asked for mid rule change to counter porpoising & a new TD got into picture.

Now ferrari is bouncing a lot in the faster corners… can they go back to FIA & raise the issue?

Ofcourse I don’t see this happening under leadership of Mattia. But it’s just a question out of curiosity.

[RossTheBoss]

I have one question

Mercs asked for mid rule change to counter porpoising & a new TD got into picture.

Now ferrari is bouncing a lot in the faster corners… can they go back to FIA & raise the issue?

Ofcourse I don’t see this happening under leadership of Mattia. But it’s just a question out of curiosity.
Ferrari can lobby for anything they like. The problem is, they'll get none of what they lobby for through Binotto, as you said.

A race teams pull in the sport is only as far as how valuable they are to the sport, and how willing the leaders of the team are to withdraw that value from the sport if certain conditions are not met for their participation in. IOW, the FIA have feared Mercedes and Hamilton leaving, they also fear Red Bull doing the same. That's gotten them huge concessions from the FIA, from engine freezes and huge midseason rule changes, all the way up to getting the chief steward fired from his job. Ferrari don't have that pull anymore, because the FIA believe Ferrari would never quit F1.

[paolo lalli]

Even Max's visor strip he ripped off found its way into Charles car brake duct cant take a trick that is what caused smoke from the brakes, he had to come in and this compromised his race somewhat.As for political clout with the FIA I believe they know ferrari are all bark and no bite they have heard the idol threats time and time again.

[stefa]

This situation reminds me a lot of Ferrari in 80s and in 90s. From time to time competative car with some poles and wins, and that is max what can achieve. As long as these people are in the management of Ferrari, they will NOT win any championship!

[SB92]

Binotto is particularly suspicious of the extent of the upgrades that are coming from Red Bull. Binotto told the FIA to take a closer look when monitoring the budget limits.Red Bull is still planning to introduce a new monocoque in the season's final phase to get rid of the weight.

Binotto: "We could never afford to develop a lightweight chassis or any chassis during the season because the budget doesn't allow it."
Binotto: "I would be very surprised if that was possible for other teams. You have to ask yourself whether the monitoring is sufficient. Unfortunately, only a few people at the FIA keep an eye on it."
Binotto: "That has to improve for the future. It would be really bad if the championship is decided by the financial rules."

Was Binotto dropped on his head as a child? Look at how many upgrades even Merc are bringing to each weekend, although their basic car concept is nowhere near ours. Ferrari brings the least number of meaningful upgrades among all the major teams. If he thinks that the rest are cheating, then he should aggressively bring it up with the FIA. Otherwise, he should try to have the technical apartment push the envelope, but they will only get caught with their pants down, as in 2019.

Im amazed as to how someone this moronically incompetent has been with the team for so long. It speaks poorly of Ferrari to have such an idiot as TP.

:ouch:ouch:ouch:ouch

[SB92]

This situation reminds me a lot of Ferrari in 80s and in 90s. From time to time competative car with some poles and wins, and that is max what can achieve. As long as these people are in the management of Ferrari, they will NOT win any championship!

Leave alone the 80s and the 90s, this is the worst the team has been since Todt left. Although there were numerous blunders, the team fought for the championship till the final race in 2008, 2010 and 2012 and were not very far off in 2017-18 either. Under Binotto, we have won only 7 races in 4 seasons, had a season like 2020 (our worst since 1980) and got caught cheating in 2019. I would gladly take the Ferrari of 2010-13 or 2015-18 in a heartbeat over the that we have now.

[Rishu]

Pretty sure the team atmosphere is very stressful, race engineers asking drivers what tyres they want, team not informing about penalty to it's drivers, if I recall correct Charles got a reprimand from Binotto as well (of course which he denied). When communication within is not what it should be, clear signs trust is broken

[Greig]

Red Bull are certainly cheating the budget cap, remember Horner very vocal about getting it increased just because of inflation, now they are bringing out new lightweight chassis.....

[racingbradley]

Red Bull are certainly cheating the budget cap, remember Horner very vocal about getting it increased just because of inflation, now they are bringing out new lightweight chassis.....

Why cannot Ferrari do the same instead of sitting on their high horses. (pardon the pun}

[samboozik]

Why cannot Ferrari do the same instead of sitting on their high horses. (pardon the pun}

Because if there is any sort of justice left in F1, they should be penalised and stripped form their championships. Why should we break the rules?

[Tifoso Svedese]

I really doubt Red Bull will have to do a settlement 'for the good of the sport' but they're obviously cheating, yes. Having said that, if all top teams did the same and held the line mutually against the FIA they would have no leg to stand on. If Red Bull, Mercedes and Ferrari all get caught doing the same thing and keep each others' backs, the FIA aren't going to exclude the teams and drivers that bring money into the sport. Rather than Binotto's naïve attempt at following the stupid cap in the first place, he should've colluded with Horner and Toto all along to make fools of the cost cap clowns.

[Liscia]

No honor among cheats? I doubt that coalition against FIAsco would work for very long if it could ever even form?

[Silent Bob]

Binotto is the worst TP Ferrari have EVER had. When he got Ferrari caught out on the fuel meter TD in 19', that should've told everyone that he was a total buffoon. Now, it's happened again. One of Ferrari's advantages is found out in the grey area of the rules, and Binotto had no plan on how to avoid an embarrassing pace drop that would reveal it.

Fire him. Show him and the rest of the management the door. Enough is enough. And before one his pitiful apologists asks "bbbbbut, who will replace Binotto and his band of clowns? Other teams will hire them!". No front running team in their right minds is going to hire the likes of Binotto and Rueda. They're not gluttons for embarrassment like the Ferrari board are.


It comes down to money.

They say you get what you pay for, and it's no secret that Binotto makes far less than Wolff and Horner. The latter are businessmen, who want to do whatever it takes to win, by looking for only the best, pushing them, and firing dead weight. That's how you have to run a race team. Like a business. Because that's what it is.

Schumacher, Todt, Brawn, and Byrne weren't cheap. Hell, neither were other techs like Costa and Allison, the latter of whom got poached by Mercedes. And that's it, the dream team was as expensive AF, and Elkaan and the rest of the Ferrari board believe they're above doing that, even as Red Bull poach like crazy. Ferrari these days would rather ride the coattails of old success, and pay Binotto 1/3 (if that) of the likes of a qualified TP.



Wasn't Marchionne in charge when Ferrari developed the 2019 engine. Didn't he say he was encouraging the team to think outside the box and not play it safe, to push the grey area? But everyone said Marchionne was 'The Guy'.
How many times did Ferrari offer Newey a contract? If I recall it was an insane amount of money they offered him. He turned the offers down for a few reasons, one of which was the blame mentality in the team... one which you seem to subscribe to.
But let's do it your way. Let's do a mass firing of the team right now. Get rid of anyone that's made a bad decision or a mistake in the last year.... then put the word out and see how many top guys will be rushing to fill those places knowing that if they f... up they'll be fired. Happy hunting.

[nani_s23]

Wasn't Marchionne in charge when Ferrari developed the 2019 engine. Didn't he say he was encouraging the team to think outside the box and not play it safe, to push the grey area? But everyone said Marchionne was 'The Guy'.
How many times did Ferrari offer Newey a contract? If I recall it was an insane amount of money they offered him. He turned the offers down for a few reasons, one of which was the blame mentality in the team... one which you seem to subscribe to.
But let's do it your way. Let's do a mass firing of the team right now. Get rid of anyone that's made a bad decision or a mistake in the last year.... then put the word out and see how many top guys will be rushing to fill those places knowing that if they f... up they'll be fired. Happy hunting.

Pit wall mistakes were only this year? It’s been going around for a while.
I hardly success rate at 50% from the out wall.

For me ferrari is here to win, not to settle for couple of victories. I don’t want know what is going on internally. There are lot of issues at Current Ferrari

1. No vision
2. No clear communication
3. No trust
4. No accountability
5. No sign of accepting the mistake & addressing it.

When season started Mattia said, “title is not our goal, we are looking much more than that”. What is it?

Alonso spent 5 years with Ferrari without title.
Vettel spent 5 years with Ferrari without title
Leclerc currently in his 4th year with Ferrari.

Next who is the target?

[JPZ]

Mercedes brought in a basically redesigned car and now Red Bull as well.

The TD clearly favoured Mercedes as well, and it seems Red Bull too.

Politically, the other teams are lobbying and it's working for them.

[Silent Bob]

Pit wall mistakes were only this year? It’s been going around for a while.
I hardly success rate at 50% from the out wall.

For me ferrari is here to win, not to settle for couple of victories. I don’t want know what is going on internally. There are lot of issues at Current Ferrari

1. No vision
2. No clear communication
3. No trust
4. No accountability
5. No sign of accepting the mistake & addressing it.

When season started Mattia said, “title is not our goal, we are looking much more than that”. What is it?

Alonso spent 5 years with Ferrari without title.
Vettel spent 5 years with Ferrari without title
Leclerc currently in his 4th year with Ferrari.

Next who is the target?



We got rid of Costa when Alonso was driving for us - he was fired for not producing a winning car. Guess he was a pretty crap designer.

Allison left during Vettel's time, I didn't really rate him that highly anyways and he's brought his magic to Merc this year.

Who do we fire this year mid way through the season? The guys that designed a car that can compete at the front of the grid? The guys that designed the engine? The pit crew? Of course Binotto musty go, because without a TP, Ferrari will do so much better.

Of course these errors and mistakes are disappointing and they should be addressed immediately, but not by a widespread firing. Binotto and Ferrari gave a very clear direction of their timelines to getting back to the top and dominating. I think they were very specific. They said they are putting pieces in place to build a team that can compete at the top. They came out maybe stronger than they expected.
Maybe all us pitiful apologists are just realists that have seen these cycles before, have watched the revolving door of talent being pushed out and going to other teams because we can't be patient enough to give the team a chance.
Bet a lot of you guys would have wanted Todt and Brawn kicked out of Ferrari in 1996 & 1997, maybe should have gotten rid of Byrne after 98 & 99.

[Silent Bob]

Mercedes brought in a basically redesigned car and now Red Bull as well.

The TD clearly favoured Mercedes as well, and it seems Red Bull too.

Politically, the other teams are lobbying and it's working for them.



Mercs car is still slower than ours. After how many redesigns?

[JPZ]

Mercs car is still slower than ours. After how many redesigns?

Not talking about performance, but the budget cap.

[Redfive]

I think we now have to accept that both titles are gone this year now and quite frankly, We've not been outraced or outdeveloped but our management and strategy has handed the titles to RBR.

[FerrariF60]

I think we now have to accept that both titles are gone this year now and quite frankly, We've not been outraced or outdeveloped but our management and strategy has handed the titles to RBR.

yes we have a quick car, or at least we had one until Hungary (in practice when it was HOT as during the race when it got colder out pace seemed to have dissapeared); weather or NOT this new TD taht was introduced for Spa really affected our pace it's yet to be seen at teh next race.

if we're still lacking massive pace in Zanvoort compared to red fools, then YES, i would agree taht this latest TD in regards to the floor is indeed hurting us.

Spa was always gonna hurt us in terms of pace compared to red fools as their car is way more efficient with less drag.
i
i personally think that what's hurting us the most is COOL WEATHER.....we can't seem to fire up those tires and find a proper balance to work the tires evenly front/back as we do when is really HOT temperatures ...or maybe it takes time to bring them up to temp quickly when it's COLD.

we seem to to have NO issues when is really HOT with bringing the tires to operating temperature to extract maximum performace from the car.

Red fools on teh other hand seem to struggle when really HOT by chewing up the tires more and faster as we've seen in austria and other HOT races.

so for next year's evolution of this car, Ferrari needs to take that into account, how to widen the working range of the tires....weather be a suspension redesign....etc

[Gilles]

Who do we fire this year mid way through the season?
Marcos and Rueda at least and maybe Binotto because he didn't fired them himself and also for all his lies

[Gilles]

This situation reminds me a lot of Ferrari in 80s and in 90s. From time to time competative car with some poles and wins, and that is max what can achieve. As long as these people are in the management of Ferrari, they will NOT win any championship!

I would be much more pessimistic, the car was a contender for victory most of the races and Charles would have won many races so far this year, with this car but with a real professional team.
The team has never been worse in the 80s and 90s, and I’m afraid I’ve never even seen such a bad team in F1
Even if they decided on the strategy for Leclerc by reading in the bowels of a chicken they would have better results

[stefa]

I would be much more pessimistic, the car was a contender for victory most of the races and Charles would have won many races so far this year, with this car but with a real professional team.
The team has never been worse in the 80s and 90s, and I’m afraid I’ve never even seen such a bad team in F1
Even if they decided on the strategy for Leclerc by reading in the bowels of a chicken they would have better results

Anyway this period is dark....

[Gilles]

Anyway this period is dark....

Not everything is dark, as Silvia Napoletano wrote, at least, we were the fastest in the pitlane :champ

[Gilles]

I watched the whole race on board with Charles and listened to team radio. They tell Charles lies all the time. Like RB has higher tyre deg. Our pace is comparable to RB, lap times are good (2-3 seconds slower than people around him) and so on.

How to keep faith in Marcos when hearing that, as in Binotto, as in the team...
Terrible moments for Charles as for the fans