2022 Dutch Grand Prix - Race Thread

[drax]

Any upgrades expected for Monza the famous new rear suspension ?

[FFFerrari]

The pit crew has done a LOT of unforced errors this year, way too many for a premier team. Add that to the mechanical meltdowns we had and it is a surprise that we are still clinging to the 2nd spot. This race was no exception.

[WS6TransAm01]

What an impeccable display of failed leadership we have been witnessing this year.

Started this year with the fastest car and a driver who's more than capable of lifting the title. But rather than doubling down and bolting upgrades on the car, we had to wait for the Spanish GP, the 5th race on the calendar, to witness some meaningful upgrades on the car. While Red Bull kept on upgrading their car and made it fully suited to Max.

Binotto on the other hand kept on complaining about budget cap, how they need to help Sainz with the F1-75, ignoring all the mistakes from the pit wall and defending their incompetence with his own incompetence as a leader, throwing his fingers at Charles infornt of the public cause Charles dared to question their stupid strategy that costed him an easy win Silverstone, kept on complaining about budget car while the competitors kept on developing their cars. Was incapable of playing any politics whatsoever. Accepted FIA's interference in the championship and what not.

And still the upgrades are missing. The F1-75 is a great car but it simply hasn't been upgraded as much as it's direct competitors. The RB18 and the Merc are the two most heavily upgraded cars while the F1-75 is one of the least upgraded car on the grid. Pathetic.

Binotto’s failures are indefensible by all but the most feeble among us.

[jgonzalesm6]

Russell out-strategized Lewis's strategist. This kid can multi-task....and it's not the first time he has done this.

[nani_s23]

Any upgrades expected for Monza the famous new rear suspension ?

I don’t know what’s going into Ferrari’s mind.

Saniz is taking penalty in Monza.

Carlos Sainz confirmed two important things. That it will mount a new PU soon, we confirm that it will do so in Monza. The new hybrid, in addition to being more efficient, weighs 2 kg less, bringing the car in line with the minimum weight

[nani_s23]

Binotto: "Today we are not satisfied. We weren't fast. We made a mess in Carlos' pit. With Charles we were unlucky in strategy. We think Carlos lost pace in the incident with Lewis. We will do our best in Monza."

He said at the start of season “winning titles is not in the agenda now it’s much more than that”. He should be satisfied with this show.

[nani_s23]

Charles Leclerc : “I mean Red Bull is the faster car at the moment, especially in race pace. In quali, I think we are very close. Mercedes seems to have gained a bit performance in race pace too, it‘s looking difficult."

[nani_s23]

Binotto:

“Today we are not satisfied. We lacked pace and this has been happening for some races already.”

“When you are worried about the pace, and you do not live up to expectations, the causes must be investigated.”


Porpoising issue isn’t resolved, no upgrades, no fixes for our race pace since couple of races.

[nani_s23]

Mattia Binotto on Monza:

“We are happy to return to a full Monza in which grandstands have also been added.”

“We feel the responsibility, the fans have followed us closely, we will do our best.”

[WS6TransAm01]

He said at the start of season “winning titles is not in the agenda now it’s much more than that”. He should be satisfied with this show.

What I want to know is; what is “more” than winning the titles? Why are you here if you’re not aiming to win? Sometimes you have to wonder how these losers gets appointed to their station. It’s mind boggling.

[WS6TransAm01]

Binotto:

“Today we are not satisfied. We lacked pace and this has been happening for some races already.”

“When you are worried about the pace, and you do not live up to expectations, the causes must be investigated.”


The cause is Binotto’s crap leadership. Investigation closed.

[paolo lalli]

Just suck it up the train wreck will be over soon no more words I just laugh i find it helps immensly. The f1 sporting world have seen the mistake riddled ferrari team in full flight.cant wait to hear from Binotto potter then I really start laughing.RIP ferrari 2022.

[nani_s23]

The cause is Binotto’s crap leadership. Investigation closed.

Yup … correctly said. These mistakes are going too long.

[Michal2_F1]

Another race, another amateurish blunder. This has been unacceptable from Ferrari for a long time. Mattia Binotto is a great engineer, Ferrari built their best cars since 2008 under his technical leadership in 2017 and 2018 and there is his place. He does not have a character to be an effective team principal for this team. Ferrari is always under a lot of pressure and has to be managed by a strong and charismatic person. I remember many people lauding his appointment and thinking it was the remaining piece of the puzzle to bring the championship to Maranello. I was sceptical from the beginning and unfortunately I was right.

Was Arrivabene the answer? I don't know but the 2018 car was very good and the main problem was the driver - Vettel, who was making so many mistakes. If he was driving as well as Hamilton then the championship would go all the way to Abu Dhabi. Mercedes might have got a small edge pace-wise overall but it was really close and the team wasn't doing badly on the pitwall.

Everyone makes mistakes. It happens to the best of us and it's wrong to blame or fire people for one or two wrong decisions. But if it happens for the 100th time then it's a different matter. You need changes. It's not like Ferrari is suddenly crumbling in 2022 while being strong operationally before. Remember 2019 and strategic errors time and time again? Back then and now there has been indecisiveness like "we're checking", "we'll get back to you".

Doubling down and supporting your team publicly is good but you can do that to a certain moment. And we are way past that moment, because no one is buying that anymore and Binotto has turned Ferrari into a laughing stock. It is only fuelling that criticism. The Ferrari employees aren't stupid people living in a cave - they have internet, they have families, they know how they are being viewed week in, week out. They must be feeling really down and it's hard to imagine it is not impacting their work and this whole atmosphere is really toxic and something must change. The tifosi aren't feeling great either when reading the comments about this whole team and listening to the TP who says all is fine. No, Mr Binotto, it is not a good situation. Inaki Rueda should be fired, it's unbelievable he still holds the job.

[SilverSpeed]

Nope there's still nothing wrong with our team says Binotto :rotfl.

[wisepie]

What an impeccable display of failed leadership we have been witnessing this year.

Started this year with the fastest car and a driver who's more than capable of lifting the title. But rather than doubling down and bolting upgrades on the car, we had to wait for the Spanish GP, the 5th race on the calendar, to witness some meaningful upgrades on the car. While Red Bull kept on upgrading their car and made it fully suited to Max.

Binotto on the other hand kept on complaining about budget cap, how they need to help Sainz with the F1-75, ignoring all the mistakes from the pit wall and defending their incompetence with his own incompetence as a leader, throwing his fingers at Charles infornt of the public cause Charles dared to question their stupid strategy that costed him an easy win Silverstone, kept on complaining about budget car while the competitors kept on developing their cars. Was incapable of playing any politics whatsoever. Accepted FIA's interference in the championship and what not.

And still the upgrades are missing. The F1-75 is a great car but it simply hasn't been upgraded as much as it's direct competitors. The RB18 and the Merc are the two most heavily upgraded cars while the F1-75 is one of the least upgraded car on the grid. Pathetic.

That sums it all up, and still Binotto and his 'team' don't appear to have a clue as to where our pace has gone and why we're suffering such bad tyre deg. The pitlane and strategy errors just keep piling up and we're a laughing stock. Both Charles and Carlos did their best but it's painful to watch our team embarrass themselves every weekend. God help us in Monza.

[stasera]

the new regulation caused us to lose our pace. RB is not our rival anymore. it's mercedes, they gained incredibly pace after the regulation, which bought for them by the fia


Drivers standing would be Max, Perez (russell or leclerc)
and Contructors standing would be RB, Mercedes, Ferrari

there is a lot of race to lose second place, with this pace we dont seem like to keep the second place, instead of making great car, we have to make great lobbying inside of the fia.

look at Mercedes, they could not create a good car, but they pruned the rules according to their slow cars.

[Golfsmith]

Have an look at this.

https://www.rivistacontrasti.it/ferrari-john-elkann-presidente-errori-binotto-responsabilita-titolo-borsa-pista-macchina/?fbclid=IwAR0EVnE3TUPR7qXoKZCBbbJ7WLzU8c5qGxtuFc5h Ryd1bBmQicsY2nRcUfc

[nani_s23]

Russell out-strategized Lewis's strategist. This kid can multi-task....and it's not the first time he has done this.

He’s been doing all the same at Williams as well. That’s what you need.

You need to pick your moments & take the calls based on the situation.

Charles need to do that

[stefa]

What I want to know is; what is “more” than winning the titles? Why are you here if you’re not aiming to win? Sometimes you have to wonder how these losers gets appointed to their station. It’s mind boggling.

It is really mindfudging

[racingbradley]

That sums it all up, and still Binotto and his 'team' don't appear to have a clue as to where our pace has gone and why we're suffering such bad tyre deg. The pitlane and strategy errors just keep piling up and we're a laughing stock. Both Charles and Carlos did their best but it's painful to watch our team embarrass themselves every weekend. God help us in Monza.

Agree with that Wisepie. I felt sorry for Carlos when they had only three wheels for his wagon. A repeat of an incident when Eddie drove for us. I have a feeling Felipe had a similar experience. Poor Carlos had 2 terrible pit stops. AS for Charles give him the car to win races with.

[nani_s23]

Sky Ted Kravitz reports few of them revoked their tickets for Italian GP.

Such a pathetic commentator’s we have.

[nani_s23]

Comments from Nico Rosberg on Ferrari & Mattia Binotto are straight to the point. Well said.

Mattia is a technician not a leader in managing the team. Ferrari need fundamental changes.

[tpe]

There is a positive to take away from this race!
Even Merc repeats the same stupid mistakes!

[nani_s23]

There is a positive to take away from this race!
Even Merc repeats the same stupid mistakes!

Mercs 30pts & ferrari 19pts for this race.

Nico Rosberg: "Even Formula 2 and Formula 3 teams do a better job at managing a race than Ferrari."

[RossTheBoss]

109 point behind. Nothing to celebrate. It’s shameful and pathetic.
Ferrari started the first 3 races of this season on fire. Then, once they came to Miami, it'll came apart.

The incompetence is honestly the worst I've ever seen at Ferrari, even compared to when they had slower cars.

Ferrari are going to lose 3rd in the WCC, behind Mercedes, who started off being mocked for how bad their car was. Now, Mercedes are the paddock praise for turning their season around, while Ferrari are seen as a high speed Monty Python skit, who's management are criminally incompetent.

The blame has kicked up from Binotto to Elkaan and the Ferrari board themselves for allowing this clown show to go on, and on, and on. What's worse, Elkaan and company don't really care about racing like Luca did. It's not in the Ferrari boards blood enough to care, and to fix the once greatest race team ever.
.

[RossTheBoss]

Comments from Nico Rosberg on Ferrari & Mattia Binotto are straight to the point. Well said.

Mattia is a technician not a leader in managing the team. Ferrari need fundamental changes.
If I were TP at Ferrari, I'd fire everyone in charge of race operations and begin promoting internally and poaching from other race teams around the world for the best engineers and strategists, and pay the premium for them. Stop trying to do cutsey strategy, and learn how to simply shadow your rivals when leading, split strategies when pursuing, and pay attention to drivers feedback.

Team orders next year. Complaints from media need not be addressed. The clear WDC level drivers (90% Charles) gets the upgrades first, the primary strategy, and is made way for on track by the other team car, pure and simple. Ferrari should not be afraid to use Todt era orders.

The car design department is by and large fine, but could use an extra designer on the team.

Yes, none of this is happening.

[paolo lalli]

Third in drivers and third in constructors thats how its looking now.Ferrari could be out of money so no more major development while the other teams have applied smart accounting and are continually developing such a drop off is really strange, while redbull continues to surge and mercedes is closing in fast.Red bull will win easily in Italy and mercedes will edge ferrari then watch out the crowd will erupt expect booing calorie directed at ferrari from the tiffosi they are not a forgiving bunch.Ferrari are in no man's land, and why is the burning questions.

[SB92]

If I were TP at Ferrari, I'd fire everyone in charge of race operations and begin promoting internally and poaching from other race teams around the world for the best engineers and strategists, and pay the premium for them. Stop trying to do cutsey strategy, and learn how to simply shadow your rivals when leading, split strategies when pursuing, and pay attention to drivers feedback.

Team orders next year. Complaints from media need not be addressed. The clear WDC level drivers (90% Charles) gets the upgrades first, the primary strategy, and is made way for on track by the other team car, pure and simple. Ferrari should not be afraid to use Todt era orders.

The car design department is by and large fine, but could use an extra designer on the team.

Yes, none of this is happening.

Team orders should come into play only when the championship is in contention. Other than that, I agree with your points.

[nani_s23]

If I were TP at Ferrari, I'd fire everyone in charge of race operations and begin promoting internally and poaching from other race teams around the world for the best engineers and strategists, and pay the premium for them. Stop trying to do cutsey strategy, and learn how to simply shadow your rivals when leading, split strategies when pursuing, and pay attention to drivers feedback.

Team orders next year. Complaints from media need not be addressed. The clear WDC level drivers (90% Charles) gets the upgrades first, the primary strategy, and is made way for on track by the other team car, pure and simple. Ferrari should not be afraid to use Todt era orders.

The car design department is by and large fine, but could use an extra designer on the team.

Yes, none of this is happening.

Car is not the problem. Our car is still the base one only.
Not upgraded like RB & Mercs.

For me, it’s simple Charles is fastest driver among the two & is the only one who can take the challenge to max provided strong race car. Build the team around him & Charles should stop making mistakes.

This is how you can win championships. MSC/Vettel/Alonso team was built around them & they were fighting for titles. You can’t change that now & say “oh no both drivers need a chance”. It doesn’t work out in that way. This is where the first problem is.


Lewis won titles because team was built around him, Max is winning now of the same reason. Ferrari is no different Mattia should realise that first

[The Architect]

All my sporting interests did well this weekend (no mean feat when that also includes Man Utd) except Ferrari yet again. What a calamitous race. Feels like 2020 all over again. Expect to tumble down the grid after qualifying. The team screwed Sainz this time while we seem to have fallen behind Merc in race pace. Maybe time to abandon the season and focus on next year? What's the point when it's all going to unfold the same way again? Where's the progress under Binotto? I just don't see it.

[Liscia]

Binotto: "Today we are not satisfied. We weren't fast. We made a mess in Carlos' pit. With Charles we were unlucky in strategy. We think Carlos lost pace in the incident with Lewis. We will do our best in Monza."

There you have it gentlemen: "We will do our best in Monza"
An early apology in advance of next Sunday's debacle from our oh so polite team principal.

[RossTheBoss]

Car is not the problem. Our car is still the base one only.
Not upgraded like RB & Mercs.

For me, it’s simple Charles is fastest driver among the two & is the only one who can take the challenge to max provided strong race car. Build the team around him & Charles should stop making mistakes.

This is how you can win championships. MSC/Vettel/Alonso team was built around them & they were fighting for titles. You can’t change that now & say “oh no both drivers need a chance”. It doesn’t work out in that way. This is where the first problem is.


Lewis won titles because team was built around him, Max is winning now of the same reason. Ferrari is no different Mattia should realise that first
100%

Charles only has made two mistakes. San Marino, which was minor, and France which was all him. The difference between Leclerc (and TBF, Sainz, too) and Binotto is, Leclerc takes ownership for his mistakes, while Binotto gaslights and pretends that mistakes in race operations and strategy are not mistakes at all, and in fact are just peachy. Someone with that mentality will never take Ferrari to the top again.

[RossTheBoss]

If Binotto said after the races "We made a mistake. We thought X would work, but it didn't, and we cost Charles/Sainz the race. We're sorry to him" I'd be able to believe he could grow as a leader. Instead he gaslights everyone and pretends that everything is just peachy, which tells me he has personal emotions towards the race engineers making this constant mistakes, wherein he'll never fire them, no matter what they cost the team.

And before the Binotto apologists start, there's not wanting a revolving door at Ferrari, and then there's being blind to what's zero accountability in leadership that's unacceptable.

You think it's bad now? Wait until the development team learn from their mistakes and give Leclerc a good enough car to dominate with. Now, imagine Reuda still being in charge of strategy and the title fight is going down to the final race of the season. Still want Binotto in charge? Inside, you know you don't in that situation.

[WS6TransAm01]

If Binotto said after the races "We made a mistake. We thought X would work, but it didn't, and we cost Charles/Sainz the race. We're sorry to him" I'd be able to believe he could grow as a leader. Instead he gaslights everyone and pretends that everything is just peachy, which tells me he has personal emotions towards the race engineers making this constant mistakes, wherein he'll never fire them, no matter what they cost the team.

And before the Binotto apologists start, there's not wanting a revolving door at Ferrari, and then there's being blind to what's zero accountability in leadership that's unacceptable.

You think it's bad now? Wait until the development team learn from their mistakes and give Leclerc a good enough car to dominate with. Now, imagine Reuda still being in charge of strategy and the title fight is going down to the final race of the season. Still want Binotto in charge? Inside, you know you don't in that situation.

I wouldn’t let Binotto in charge of a flea circus let alone a Formula1 team. The fact that he is the TP of a team as great as Ferrari is insulting to anyone and everyone. He is an abject failure as a leader. Might be a great engineer, but engineers very rarely make good leaders. This is why all the engineering companies I work with have engineers and project managers. They don’t let engineers manage ANYTHING!

[alfaromeo]

Guys, now that you've gotten over the disappointment about binotto, you're not right, it's not all his fault for ferrari's failures. Binotto should stay at Ferrari and take the position of technical director because he is a good engineer. However, he is not very good at management. Apparently the highest at ferrari for f1 races are screwing up. Because, if ferrari has managerial and organizational problems, it is the task of the highest members of the board to find a good manager for formula 1 on the market. Now it would be a mistake to fire binotta, because the f1-75 car is not bad. If we look at the Ducati Moto GP, they obviously have top organizers... so it is possible...

[paolo lalli]

To many chiefs at ferrari and far to many weak Indians.Mr John Elkan must intervene to save any more future embarrasment its becoming a week in week out occurrence and red bull and merc are expecting ****ups from ferrari .No other team in f1 history makes error after error like ferrari very very embarrassing indeed.

[nani_s23]

Guys, now that you've gotten over the disappointment about binotto, you're not right, it's not all his fault for ferrari's failures. Binotto should stay at Ferrari and take the position of technical director because he is a good engineer. However, he is not very good at management. Apparently the highest at ferrari for f1 races are screwing up. Because, if ferrari has managerial and organizational problems, it is the task of the highest members of the board to find a good manager for formula 1 on the market. Now it would be a mistake to fire binotta, because the f1-75 car is not bad. If we look at the Ducati Moto GP, they obviously have top organizers... so it is possible...

No one is saying to fire Mattia Binotto.
Keep him where he is best at, that is Chief of Technical Dept not Team Principal.

[nani_s23]

From what has been learned, Sainz's negative race is largely due to a damage to the right side of the fund generated in the contact at the start with Lewis Hamilton. The bottom broke and folded. The right sealing was missing (less load and unbalanced).

@Formu1a_uno

[Toothlessrage*]

To many chiefs at ferrari and far to many weak Indians.Mr John Elkan must intervene to save any more future embarrasment its becoming a week in week out occurrence and red bull and merc are expecting ****ups from ferrari .No other team in f1 history makes error after error like ferrari very very embarrassing indeed.

Weak Indians?
Why do you have to bring nationality into the conversation?

[RossTheBoss]

No one is saying to fire Mattia Binotto.
Keep him where he is best at, that is Chief of Technical Dept not Team Principal.
David Sanchez has been heading the design department, and has frankly earned the right to be technical director. Guy is only in his late 40's and with Cardille as his deputy and Byrne as a consultant, I actually don't think the technical department needs any changes. I would only add people, not fire anyone.

The factory guys are doing a good job, imho. I disagree with the assertion that Ferrari were out developed. The F175 was quicker than the RB18 at Bahrain, Melbourne, Spain, Monaco, Silverstone, Austria, France, and Hungary, and should've won all of those races, if not for a combo of horrible race operations and one driver error. Yes, the car is comparable in pace to Mercedes now, but the points don't reflect how much better Ferrari's car was for the first half.

[nani_s23]

David Sanchez has been heading the design department, and has frankly earned the right to be technical director. Guy is only in his late 40's and with Cardille as his deputy and Byrne as a consultant, I actually don't think the technical department needs any changes. I would only add people, not fire anyone.

The factory guys are doing a good job, imho. I disagree with the assertion that Ferrari were out developed. The F175 was quicker than the RB18 at Bahrain, Melbourne, Spain, Monaco, Silverstone, Austria, France, and Hungary, and should've won all of those races, if not for a combo of horrible race operations and one driver error. Yes, the car is comparable in pace to Mercedes now, but the points don't reflect how much better Ferrari's car was for the first half.

Bahrain … No.

RB was fastest car. It’s just their DNF caused the issue. Leclerc was smart in playing with DRS that’s it.

Melbourne/Monaco/Spain/France & Hungary …. These are the only tracks where ferrari-Leclerc was dominant.

A fastest car should be fast everywhere not limited to specific tracks.

After TD39, Ferrari lost its advantage over high & medium speed Corners, Tyre deg is heavy. F1-75 lost its balance. Which Mattia isn’t agreeing to it (off late he’s isn’t accepting anything even though issue is evident)

[aroutis]

Third in drivers and third in constructors thats how its looking now.Ferrari could be out of money so no more major development while the other teams have applied smart accounting and are continually developing such a drop off is really strange, while redbull continues to surge and mercedes is closing in fast.Red bull will win easily in Italy and mercedes will edge ferrari then watch out the crowd will erupt expect booing calorie directed at ferrari from the tiffosi they are not a forgiving bunch.Ferrari are in no man's land, and why is the burning questions.

The one thing ferrari is not out, is money.
What we 're out of , is leadership.
We need to embrace this one single truth.

Ferrari should get their head from the sand; then look at how RBR got where they are. They do nothing new, or innovative. They do what Merc did , or RBR did before, or what Ferrari did before them, which is, looking at what issues they did and kept them behind, and fixed them.
AKA , poaching from the competition.
Ferrari poached from Benneton Ford, RBR from Merc, Merc from Ferrari.
This IS F1 and that is how it works.

But no, our leader says we are doing fine, and the only time he does not do that, is when everything goes shockingly bad, when we perform worse than everyone could imagine.

So , personally, I hope that when this championship ends , and the lights are shut, behind closed doors, some bold decisions are made, and yes, heads roll cause indeed heads need to roll and replacements are made. Sorry but this is Ferrari and not the public sector.

As for Monza, what is there to say, respect the Tifosi.

[aroutis]

After TD39, Ferrari lost its advantage over high & medium speed Corners, Tyre deg is heavy. F1-75 lost its balance. Which Mattia isn’t agreeing to it (off late he’s isn’t accepting anything even though issue is evident)

And that is a sign of a weak leader who having no answers he is simply in denial.

[aroutis]

@nani_23.
I believe the car is fast but (for whatever the reason) we setup for faster quali instead of faster race pace.
We should be opting for the latter.
Also, maybe this is not so much for the aero, as much for the engine to look for as well.

[RossTheBoss]

@nani_23.
I believe the car is fast but (for whatever the reason) we setup for faster quali instead of faster race pace.
We should be opting for the latter.
Also, maybe this is not so much for the aero, as much for the engine to look for as well.
Again, blame the pit wall. They obsess about starting position, as if in modern grand prix track position is what it used to be. Ferrari have to snap out of the mentality of worrying about qualifying so much, when the ability to have consistent pace for the races is so much more important. It does no good to fly like a rocket for 8 laps, only for your tires to get chewed up and your pace drop like a stone. Red Bull and Mercedes grasped this long ago.

[Greig]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....

Some fans clearly got carried away with our start to the season, in reality Red Bull have been pretty much quicker than us or as quick the whole season, we just had some good fortune early on. People also seem to forget where Ferrari was the previous seasons, we are improving and it's not very often you improve over night in F1, Red Bull who are hailed as something to aspire too by some on here did not do it over night.

The Schumacher era is a blip in Ferrari's history and it clearly still spoils some fans with some kind of sense of entitlement. Ferrari are not mega rich like Red Bull and Merc even Renault, we have no divine right to win season after season, and the sooner some fans come to terms with that the better it will be for them.

[RossTheBoss]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....
Since the new upgrades in France the whole balance of the car appears to have shifted. In Canada-Silverstone-Austria, Ferrari had pace, tire deg, and even straight line compared to Red Bull. Now, all three have gone backwards, and the setups are thrown off.

Binotto said as much.

[stasera]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....

Some fans clearly got carried away with our start to the season, in reality Red Bull have been pretty much quicker than us or as quick the whole season, we just had some good fortune early on. People also seem to forget where Ferrari was the previous seasons, we are improving and it's not very often you improve over night in F1, Red Bull who are hailed as something to aspire too by some on here did not do it over night.

The Schumacher era is a blip in Ferrari's history and it clearly still spoils some fans with some kind of sense of entitlement. Ferrari are not mega rich like Red Bull and Merc even Renault, we have no divine right to win season after season, and the sooner some fans come to terms with that the better it will be for them.


yes but redbull is not rich, i mean not richer than us and renault too

https://latinamericanpost.com/37775-which-teams-earn-the-most-money-in-formula-1

[stasera]

Since the new upgrades in France the whole balance of the car appears to have shifted. In Canada-Silverstone-Austria, Ferrari had pace, tire deg, and even straight line compared to Red Bull. Now, all three have gone backwards, and the setups are thrown off.

Binotto said as much.

France gp was the best performance of our cars so far in this season. Remember, Verstappen chased Leclerc with DRS for 15 laps but he wasn't able to pass through Leclerc in these straights.

for this, I blame the new regulations which brought for mercedes, more than upgrades we brought.

[Greig]

Look at Red Bull and Renault overall, not just F1.

[RossTheBoss]

Look at Red Bull and Renault overall, not just F1.
What about them?

Renault haven't won an engine title since 2013 and only one as a full constructor twice, ever. Red Bull dropped them for a reason.

How about looking at the amazing Ferrari's GT programs do around the well, and in WEC and the 24 hours. Gee, it's almost like when competent people are in charge of Ferrari's racing divisions, the cars actually win. Maybe, juuuuust maybe it's management that's the problem, and has been the problem. :roll

[nani_s23]

France gp was the best performance of our cars so far in this season. Remember, Verstappen chased Leclerc with DRS for 15 laps but he wasn't able to pass through Leclerc in these straights.

for this, I blame the new regulations which brought for mercedes, more than upgrades we brought.

Mattia said he would protest & we have Veto too. If something against sporting Reg, we have authority to raise with a protest. He spoke all these things & end of the day we agreed to the change.

Now Mercs are slowly climbing up by pulling us down. This is called incompetent leadership.

[nani_s23]

Binotto: "We have to understand if these balance issues are the result of setup choices, or if they are the result of the latest developments. It is not the TD itself that is causing us problems, its effects are negligible."
Binotto: "In Zandvoort we have experienced a situation very similar to Budapest where the TD was not there yet. Regardless of the tyres we used we were not quick."
The latest significant Ferrari upgrade package was introduced in France (new floor) [..] A day with an unexpected error by Charles. Maybe the car has become more nervous, less easy to setup. Since that day, the F1-75 has become a "tyre-eating" car.
Another theory is linked to reliability: to avoid further breakdowns, more cautious engine mappings & solutions (while waiting for the real solution ready for the 2023 car) would have been used, which might have had an influence of the general balance of the F1-75.
Sainz‘s floor was slightly damaged after his contact with Hamilton, hence the slower pace. Carlos is set for a PU penalty in Monza, Ferrari said they will try to limit the number of penalties. So perhaps they will only change to the new hybrid part components.

[nani_s23]

@nani_23.
I believe the car is fast but (for whatever the reason) we setup for faster quali instead of faster race pace.
We should be opting for the latter.
Also, maybe this is not so much for the aero, as much for the engine to look for as well.

Nope. We always tend to focus on Quali. It’s been the same since 2017 to till date.
Race pace, we don’t have it. Because our tyres won’t last longer whether it’s due to set up or suspension or I’m not sure (not a technical expert in that area).

The day when we can do fastest laps with used tyres on any track, I will say Ferrari is back.

Points are given on Sunday not Saturday. You need to have better race car then you will have multiple strategies in your queue to play with.

[RossTheBoss]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....

Some fans clearly got carried away with our start to the season, in reality Red Bull have been pretty much quicker than us or as quick the whole season, we just had some good fortune early on. People also seem to forget where Ferrari was the previous seasons, we are improving and it's not very often you improve over night in F1, Red Bull who are hailed as something to aspire too by some on here did not do it over night.

The Schumacher era is a blip in Ferrari's history and it clearly still spoils some fans with some kind of sense of entitlement. Ferrari are not mega rich like Red Bull and Merc even Renault, we have no divine right to win season after season, and the sooner some fans come to terms with that the better it will be for them.
What are you even talking about? :lol

Ferrari are among the wealthiest teams. They could outspend Red Bull anytime they wanted to.

[Greig]

What are you even talking about? :lol

Ferrari are among the wealthiest teams. They could outspend Red Bull anytime they wanted to.

Might wanna get on google and check that out.....Red Bull remember, not just F1.

[RossTheBoss]

Nope. We always tend to focus on Quali. It’s been the same since 2017 to till date.
Race pace, we don’t have it. Because our tyres won’t last longer whether it’s due to set up or suspension or I’m not sure (not a technical expert in that area).

The day when we can do fastest laps with used tyres on any track, I will say Ferrari is back.

Points are given on Sunday not Saturday. You need to have better race car then you will have multiple strategies in your queue to play with.
It comes down to drag.

Red Bull have only a little less downforce than Ferrari, but way less drag. This gives them a wider setup window for races vs qualifying.

Newey had to learn this lesson himself last year, as Mercedes ate the Red Bull up on the straight on high speed tracks where aero efficiency is key. It's why Newey flipped his approach around, and Ferrari will have to do the same if they want to win, as there are more high speed tracks than not.

When Ferrari have top speed advantage and are within 2-3 tenths of the top of the timesheets is when they'll be back.

[RossTheBoss]

Might wanna get on google and check that out.....Red Bull remember, not just F1.
You are incredibly unserious and stretching for anything to defend Binotto's clown posse.

Ferrari isn't just F1 either, but go on.

[Greig]

You are incredibly unserious and stretching for anything to defend Binotto's clown posse.

Ferrari isn't just F1 either, but go on.

Did you google it yet? I never said Ferrari was just F1 did I? Ferrari can outspend Red Bull is your claim....

You are blaming the pitwall for tyre deg for goodness sake!

[RossTheBoss]

Did you google it yet? I never said Ferrari was just F1 did I? Ferrari can outspend Red Bull is your claim....

You are blaming the pitwall for tyre deg for goodness sake!
No, because I'm aware that Red Bull makes an extra billion in revenue. Of course, that wasn't the case during the Vettel era.

You're the one making the assertion that money is the problem. That Red Bull and Renault (lol) are outspending Ferrari. It's utterly absurd. Apparently, you're unaware that companies have investors and executives (like Elkaan) that ultimately decide how much money can be spent on a racing program, and it various from company to company how much will be given to the race team. Porsche make 6x the revenue of Ferrari, but could barely justify spending a $100 million on their WEC program, and are having to beg Red Bull for a partnership.

Do you have any idea how the politics and company culture of each organization is vastly different? Try using Google yourself.

[Greig]

No, because I'm aware that Red Bull makes an extra billion in revenue. Of course, that wasn't the case during the Vettel era.

You're the one proposing the idiotic assertion that money is the problem. That Red Bull and Renault (lol) are outspending Ferrari. Apparently, you're unaware that companies have investors and executives (like Elkaan) that ultimately decide how much money can be spent on a racing program. Porsche make 6x the revenue of Ferrari, but could barely justify spending a $100 million on their WEC program, and are having to beg Red Bull for a partnership.

Do you have any idea how the politics and company culture of each organization is vastly different? Try using Google yourself.

So Ferrari can't outspend Red Bull anytime they want as you claimed? I never said money was the problem you leapt to that all by yourself, try reading what it written not what you think.

Ferrari are not winning a title this year, probably won't next year either the sooner you come to terms with Ferrari are not actually that good in F1 the better it will be for you. Acting like a spoilt kid after every GP is not going to change the fortunes of the team.

[RossTheBoss]

So Ferrari can't outspend Red Bull anytime they want as you claimed? I never said money was the problem you leapt to that all by yourself, try reading what it written not what you think.

Ferrari are not winning a title this year, probably won't next year either the sooner you come to terms with Ferrari are not actually that good in F1 the better it will be for you. Acting like a spoilt kid after every GP is not going to change the fortunes of the team.
Actually, I've come to terms with this sad outlook: Ferrari will likely never win another F1 title. Incompetent leadership is not going away anytime soon. Elkaan and Binotto will continue to have their clown posse praised by apologists like yourself for years to come, as the Benny Hill skit that are their races continue. Ferrari are now a legacy F1 team that occasionally wins races like Williams and McLaren, and soon even the wins might become even more elusive.

When Leclerc goes to Mercedes, you can't say nobody here saw it coming.

[Greig]

Actually, I've come to terms with this sad outlook: Ferrari will likely never win another F1 title. Incompetent leadership is not going away anytime soon. Elkaan and Binotto will continue to have their clown posse praised by apologists like yourself for years to come, as the Benny Hill skit that are their races continue. Ferrari are now a legacy F1 team that occasionally wins races like Williams and McLaren, and soon even the wins might become even more elusive.

When Leclerc goes to Mercedes, you can't say nobody here saw it coming.

Can you show where I have praised them? no didn't think so. Again stop thinking what I said and please read what I have said.

Drivers come and go I accept that as part of supporting a team.

[nani_s23]

Not sure how the pit wall is to blame for the tyre deg. I would be asking why the engineers in the factory have not come up with a solution firstly....

Some fans clearly got carried away with our start to the season, in reality Red Bull have been pretty much quicker than us or as quick the whole season, we just had some good fortune early on. People also seem to forget where Ferrari was the previous seasons, we are improving and it's not very often you improve over night in F1, Red Bull who are hailed as something to aspire too by some on here did not do it over night.

The Schumacher era is a blip in Ferrari's history and it clearly still spoils some fans with some kind of sense of entitlement. Ferrari are not mega rich like Red Bull and Merc even Renault, we have no divine right to win season after season, and the sooner some fans come to terms with that the better it will be for them.

Alonso era/ Vettel era/ now Charles era…. Still we haven’t built championship winning car. Nobody is asking to come up with a strong car overnight.

We have given away 2 years to get head start on 2022 Reg & now we are 3rd fastest car? Whom to blame?
We fans? Or incompetent leadership.

Fans have every right to have the expectations, if it’s failure. We turn our page & wait for next year. It’s going on & on. But result is the same.

Still we are ferrari fans. Drivers are coming in & going, we aren’t getting desired results. That’s the problem.

[RossTheBoss]

Can you show where I have praised them? no didn't think so. Again stop thinking what I said and please read what I have said.

Drivers come and go I accept that as part of supporting a team.
Do you know why some of us praise Red Bull and even Mercedes? Because we can acknowledge they've taken Ferrari and McLaren's place as the best of F1. They come up with all the new ideas, pushing to find an advantage that's just barely within the rules. They never rest at trying to be better, even when they're leading and ahead of the competition. They're ruthless and play for keeps. They'd sell their mothers out for a technical ruling in their favor, and I respect them for it.

[nani_s23]

It comes down to drag.

Red Bull have only a little less downforce than Ferrari, but way less drag. This gives them a wider setup window for races vs qualifying.

Newey had to learn this lesson himself last year, as Mercedes ate the Red Bull up on the straight on high speed tracks where aero efficiency is key. It's why Newey flipped his approach around, and Ferrari will have to do the same if they want to win, as there are more high speed tracks than not.

When Ferrari have top speed advantage and are within 2-3 tenths of the top of the timesheets is when they'll be back.

Newey is expert in ground effect cars. RB is benefitting from it now as current regs are the same.

[RossTheBoss]

Alonso era/ Vettel era/ now Charles era…. Still we haven’t built championship winning car. Nobody is asking to come up with a strong car overnight.

We have given away 2 years to get head start on 2022 Reg & now we are 3rd fastest car? Whom to blame?
We fans? Or incompetent leadership.

Fans have every right to have the expectations, if it’s failure. We turn our page & wait for next year. It’s going on & on. But result is the same.

Still we are ferrari fans. Drivers are coming in & going, we aren’t getting desired results. That’s the problem.
There's a saying that what makes a fantasy and a goal different is a coherent plan and deadline.

Ferrari have been saying "next year" for over a decade.

[Greig]

Do you know why some of us praise Red Bull and even Mercedes? Because we can acknowledge they've taken Ferrari and McLaren's place as the best of F1. They come up with all the new ideas, pushing to find an advantage that's just barely within the rules. They never rest at trying to be better, even when they're leading and ahead of the competition. They're ruthless and play for keeps. They'd sell their mothers out for a technical ruling in their favor, and I respect them for it.

Well done to you, still does not answer where I am praising Ferrari though?

So you think Ferrari's design this year is not something new and unique to try and find an advantage? But praise the Merc approach which has them in 3rd from being WCC winners last season?

[RossTheBoss]

Newey is expert in ground effect cars. RB is benefitting from it now as current regs are the same.
This.

Newey is a machine. If you're not going to high Byrne, then you're going to need a massive team of engineers and aerodynamists to compete against him, working around the clock, bringing constant modifications to find the sweet spot against him.

And before someone brings up the budget: it's on Binotto to either file a formal complaint with the FIA for an audit of teams he suspects are cheating it, or shut up and ignore the budget cap as unenforceable as they do.

[Greig]

There's a saying that what makes a fantasy and a goal different is a coherent plan and deadline.

Ferrari have been saying "next year" for over a decade.

Ferrari have never said such things, only fans.

[RossTheBoss]

Well done to you, still does not answer where I am praising Ferrari though?

So you think Ferrari's design this year is not something new and unique to try and find an advantage? But praise the Merc approach which has them in 3rd from being WCC winners last season?
Are you really this obtuse? Mercedes just came off an era of massive dominance, and Red Bull looks to be beginning one. If you can't acknowledge that, I can't help you.

[Greig]

This.

Newey is a machine. If you're not going to high Byrne, then you're going to need a massive team of engineers and aerodynamists to compete against him, working around the clock, bringing constant modifications to find the sweet spot against him.

And before someone brings up the budget: it's on Binotto to either file a formal complaint with the FIA for an audit of teams he suspects are cheating it, or shut up and ignore the budget cap as unenforceable as they do.

Binotto can do no such thing until the end of the season and the figures are in.

[RossTheBoss]

Ferrari have never said such things, only fans.
Blah blah, same old thing.

What are Ferrari out there for if not to win titles? To be like Williams and putter around at the back? Is it all just about the franchise money for you now? I guess so.

[Greig]

Are you really this obtuse? Mercedes just came off an era of massive dominance, and Red Bull looks to be beginning one. If you can't acknowledge that, I can't help you.

Your twisting yourself up here, have Ferrari designed a car unique and new? You think they have not pushed on from previous seasons? really.....but you are full of praise for Merc who are behind us....ok then.

Did I not just say we probably wont be winning a title next year also? is that not acknowledging it for you?

[Greig]

Blah blah, same old thing.

What are Ferrari out there for if not to win titles? To be like Williams and putter around at the back? Is it all just about the franchise money for you now? I guess so.

Franchise money? ah you think this is the NFL or something?

Can you show me where Ferrari have said next year we win titles?

[RossTheBoss]

Binotto can do no such thing until the end of the season and the figures are in.
He can absolutely file a complaint with the FIA now on what he suspect Mercedes and Red Bull have spent as opposed to Ferrari, and demand an outside audit for transparency.

If you're going to accuse people of cheating, do it, or don't say anything.

[Greig]

He can absolutely file a complaint with the FIA now on what he suspect Mercedes and Red Bull have spent as opposed to Ferrari, and demand an outside audit for transparency.

If you're going to accuse people of cheating, do it, or don't say anything.

How can he do such a thing when he has no idea what they are claiming to have spent?

[RossTheBoss]

How can he do such a thing when he has no idea what they are claiming to have spent?
OMG.

It's called a budget cap. All the teams should be around the same in their budgets right now, but one can see it's only Mercedes who bring parts almost every week, and Red Bull are also way more frequent than Ferrari. It really isn't hard to grasp that they have to be spending more than everybody else.

[Greig]

OMG.

It's called a budget cap. All the teams should be around the same in their budgets right now, but one can see it's only Mercedes who bring parts almost every week, and Red Bull are also way more frequent than Ferrari. It really isn't hard to grasp that they have to be spending more than everybody else.

No not all teams will be the same, it's a cap not a target.

Until we know what they claim to have spent there is nothing we can do about it.

[RossTheBoss]

No not all teams will be the same, it's a cap not a target.

Until we know what they claim to have spent there is nothing we can do about it.
You know what Todt and Brawn would do? They'd demand all teams disclose their ongoing budgets publicly, and compare to find out who's cheating, and that if Red Bull and Mercedes refuse, then in the eye of the public they'll be guilty as charged, and that the budget cap was now null and void.

[Redfive]

is there EVER going to be a time again when being a Ferrari fan won't mean race days are a huge let down. I mean if they are going to continue being a clown show maybe I should pick another team to follow.

This is utterly ridiculous, mistake after mistake after mistake.

[Greig]

is there EVER going to be a time again when being a Ferrari fan won't mean race days are a huge let down. I mean if they are going to continue being a clown show maybe I should pick another team to follow.

This is utterly ridiculous, mistake after mistake after mistake.

Who you gonna pick?

[Greig]

You know what Todt and Brawn would do? They'd demand all teams disclose their ongoing budgets publicly, and compare to find out who's cheating, and that if Red Bull and Mercedes refuse, then in the eye of the public they'll be guilty as charged, and that the budget cap was now null and void.

No Todt and Brawn would be cheating the cap.

[Redfive]

Who you gonna pick?

Okay you got me there.. there's no one else I'd feel the same about :(

[nani_s23]

Nico Rosberg: “Even F2 or F3 teams make better strategies and pit stops than Ferrari. They really need to start making some changes.”

Binotto’s response: “It is so easy to criticise when you are outside. But we will not change people. We have got great people.”

Binotto: “Stability is more important in sport, and that we make sure we are improving day-by-day and race-by-race.”

“We have got great people in the team. It takes years for all teams to get to the front, and I see no reason for why this should be different for us.”


Binotto is saying race by race. But I don’t see any progress from strategy or Pit crew.

[Lebaronrouge]

But people need to realise that changes; this is what Ferrari has kept doing since the hybrid era. We had Domenicalli, Mattiacci, Arrivabene and now Binotto, and this cascaded to the whole organisation. Four different organisations in 8 years, this is insane! Maybe that is why we can't win anything!
Our team has a huge lack of experience compared to RBR and Mercedes and this weakness is frequently the cause of our mistakes.

In comparison, none of the current other teams has experienced such intense turnover. In contrast, Horner has led RBR since 2005. In 2014 and 2015, the RB team was nowhere, and I don't remember having heard any request for a change. The team was significantly behind Mercedes and Ferrari in 2016, 2017 and 2018.

Binotto is correct in saying that stability is vital since Ferrari is the definite proof that constant change produces consistent bad results. An F1 team is like a football team (such as Paris Saint Germain), you can have the most significant budget and the best players, but if they don't know how to play together, you will only produce bad results compared to other teams.

[nani_s23]

Sainz lost at least 2 tenths / lap of imbalance immediately after the contact with Lewis, in addition to the old ERS they make 4 tenths. Binotto officially minimizes on the TD39. There are no answers on the regression of F1-75

@Formula_uno

[Aziz]

Sainz lost at least 2 tenths / lap of imbalance immediately after the contact with Lewis, in addition to the old ERS they make 4 tenths. Binotto officially minimizes on the TD39. There are no answers on the regression of F1-75

@Formula_uno

This is even worst

That means we have brought downgrades again, this season is a carbon copy of 2018

[SilverSpeed]

Seems that Ted Bull and the Taxi's have improved their cars, and we have made it slower...

[nani_s23]

This is even worst

That means we have brought downgrades again, this season is a carbon copy of 2018

Carlos was using old ERS compared to Charles who has the new one from Spa.

Damage + old ERS did cost .4ths per lap.

But still yeah, we don’t have answers for our horrible race pace & tyre deg.

[farid-baku]

İ dont understand why hard and medium dont work?Leo Turini say that it is result new derictive from FIA.Its made for Merc always when Ferrari built good shassi.

[jgonzalesm6]

This was spotted by "Carmen" from a Facebook account. A "security" guard threw the 2nd flare onto the track at the dismay of the "orange" army.

https://twitter.com/EngineMode11/status/1566871558278287364?cxt=HHwWiMC4_a3Y0r4rAAAA

[totox]

But people need to realise that changes; this is what Ferrari has kept doing since the hybrid era. We had Domenicalli, Mattiacci, Arrivabene and now Binotto, and this cascaded to the whole organisation. Four different organisations in 8 years, this is insane! Maybe that is why we can't win anything!
Our team has a huge lack of experience compared to RBR and Mercedes and this weakness is frequently the cause of our mistakes.

In comparison, none of the current other teams has experienced such intense turnover. In contrast, Horner has led RBR since 2005. In 2014 and 2015, the RB team was nowhere, and I don't remember having heard any request for a change. The team was significantly behind Mercedes and Ferrari in 2016, 2017 and 2018.

Binotto is correct in saying that stability is vital since Ferrari is the definite proof that constant change produces consistent bad results. An F1 team is like a football team (such as Paris Saint Germain), you can have the most significant budget and the best players, but if they don't know how to play together, you will only produce bad results compared to other teams.

Totally agree with this.

[paolo lalli]

Ferrari have fumbled Alonso era Ferrari cost him WDC wrong call vettal era pit wall errors and failed to keep up development current era with Charles diabolical mistakes poor leadership and failing to keep up with development compared to others.2007 with Kimi was it and that was such a long long time ago.Ferrari have been lousy now for a very long time, the problems are not easily solved because old habits and practices are very hard to shift, with Ferrari the bad practices are ingrained in there DNA, without doubt this can not continue its a systemic problem which has grown out of control for way to long look at the past it speaks volumes as to where Ferrari are again and this will continue unless HQ steps in and grabs the problems by the throat once and for all.I would say that behind the scenes at ferrari HQ are now involved moving foward.

[Brembo]

An F1 team is like a football team (such as Paris Saint Germain), you can have the most significant budget and the best players, but if they don't know how to play together, you will only produce bad results compared to other teams.

Play together is for sure what is going wrong @ Ferrari. Binotto did wrong by Carlos trying to get Mick in his seat. Mick clearly showed he's not ready for a Ferrari seat. Now with Santander sponsoring Ferrari Carlos has to be at least treated a fair as Charles. So as you so well put it; they need to play together driver wise so as to get the best results as far as podiums and even a win. I respect Mick . he just needs more time.

[Greig]

Hamilton fans at it again....

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/12690829/alpha-tauri-call-out-hateful-behaviour-directed-at-red-bull-strategist-for-yuki-tsundas-dnf-at-dutch-gp

[ferrari1.8t]

Hamilton fans at it again....

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12040/12690829/alpha-tauri-call-out-hateful-behaviour-directed-at-red-bull-strategist-for-yuki-tsundas-dnf-at-dutch-gp

Such a polarizing person, F1 will be a better place once he has left. Team LH can stop obsessing over the supposed #humanerrorchampion, sky can stop glorifying his every breath and obsessing over his every move, and f1 fans in general can get back to enjoying racing and not social justice.

Its also important to note that teamLH was egged on by the ultimate fanboy crofty. He should be fired and/or reprimanded for his role in all this. Same with Kravitz…just horrible, biased journalism.

[Cavallino]

So Ferrari can't outspend Red Bull anytime they want as you claimed? I never said money was the problem you leapt to that all by yourself, try reading what it written not what you think.

Ferrari are not winning a title this year, probably won't next year either the sooner you come to terms with Ferrari are not actually that good in F1 the better it will be for you. Acting like a spoilt kid after every GP is not going to change the fortunes of the team.

you have to put good into perspective, when Ferrari came second in 2008, they lost to McLaren, when they were second in 2010-2012 they lost to Red Bull, when they were second in 2017-2019 we lost to Mercedes, now we're second and we're losing to Red Bull again.

Ferrari is always fighting the English team de jure. Look where McLaren and Williams went.

So to answer the person you're replying to, if you want to support ONE team. It's Ferrari. Or you can be like all the brits and just switch which team you support every 3 years, when they inevitably fall behind Ferrari again. :)

[Cavallino]

i would also like to point out that during Belgium, when Ferrari asked I think it was Leclerc about what tyres he wanted during the race, Johnny Herbert exclaimed "this doesn't happen anywhere else on the pitlane !!!"


but the next race we have the Red Fools asking orange boy what tyres he wanted, and orange boy saying that the hards wouldn't work!! :roll:lol:roll:lol:roll

[Cavallino]

oh, and NO team would be as DUMB as Ferrari and leave their lead driver out on hard tyres when they get a free pit stop for soft tyres during a safety car, like Ferrari did in Britain.

yet, we saw Merc do it. And if you were listening to F1 TV you would have heard all the commentators say that Max was making the wrong call!!! They couldn't decide.

My point is, it's quite easy to be a hindsight armchair strategist.

[Cavallino]

also, i saw some in this thread, going back to the Binotto-Leclerc finger pointing incident.

We know going far back, even to Baku 2019, Leclerc is his own toughest critic.

And I have just demonstrated how CLUELESS and biased Sky F1 is.

So if you believe that the finger pointing incident was Binotto scolding Leclerc, well, I guess you'll just believe whatever Sky F1 tells you.That whole rumour started from an off-hand comment from either Brundle or Herbert when it happened live.

[Cavallino]

also, i saw some in this thread, going back to the Binotto-Leclerc finger pointing incident.

We know going far back, even to Baku 2019, Leclerc is his own toughest critic.

And I have just demonstrated how CLUELESS and biased Sky F1 is.

So if you believe that the finger pointing incident was Binotto scolding Leclerc, well, I guess you'll just believe whatever Sky F1 tells you.That whole rumour started from an off-hand comment from either Brundle or Herbert when it happened live.

and while you're thinking about that, think about this...

if Sky F1 can convince you of all of this... did they also convince you that Max Verstappen is better than he is.... ?

it doesn't feel like that long ago when a certain driver was running away every race in a Red Bull and it soon came apparent how mediocre he was...

was Sky F1 also able to convince you that Lewis Hamilton is the GOAT?????