Sweet and sour Victory

**steelstallions** · 25th July 2010, 15:33

I was so enjoying this race, Mclaren many seconds behind and panting like an asthmatic pensioner chasing a bus and RB giving it all and not having it all their way.

Then they tell Massa to give his place to Alonso. This is one race with it being a year since the same race weekend nearly killed Massa, Ferrari could have shone like an all conquering team with a big middle finger up at all the people who wrote them off.

Instead I am left frustrated though I am happy the car has finally reached what we thought it might after the first race.

**Agron** · 25th July 2010, 15:44

And by the season end, we loose the WDC to Hamilton by 6 points after he manages to escape without penalties overtaking another 3 times the safety car and making Button move over for him twice. What a sweet feeling that would be.

**Ken** · 25th July 2010, 15:45

Like you I was realy enjoying the race, it was beginning to feel like the old glory days were returning

The controversy at the end of the race and feelings it has left us fans with has already been made clear in another thread.

All I wish to add is :-

MASSA WAS OUR TRUE HERO TODAY.

I hope and trust that all the Alonso fans in here can and will appreciate what Filipe did for the team today and be generous enough to Thank him

**Curbs** · 25th July 2010, 15:47

The way Massa made Ferrari look today shows what a teamplayer he is.
I would fire him for less. Now we could face a penalty. Thank you Massa,
great job.

**pesquisa_2004** · 25th July 2010, 15:55

Ferrari is taking away my will to follow F1

**Ken** · 25th July 2010, 15:56

The way Massa made Ferrari look today shows what a teamplayer he is.
I would fire him for less. Now we could face a penalty. Thank you Massa,
great job.

Excuse me Massa made us look bad ?? How about the Team Radio conversation that we were all entreated to during the race.

The one who made us look bad was the person who made the decision for the order to be given. Push the blame were it belongs not onto a driver.

**Agron** · 25th July 2010, 15:56

Originally Posted by Ken

Like you I was realy enjoying the race, it was beginning to feel like the old glory days were returning

The controversy at the end of the race and feelings it has left us fans with has already been made clear in another thread.

All I wish to add is :-

MASSA WAS OUR TRUE HERO TODAY.

I hope and trust that all the Alonso fans in here can and will appreciate what Filipe did for the team today and be generous enough to Thank him

He earns 15 million dollars or more each year just from the team, he likely earns a lot too from commercials and the like, in addition, at the start of the year he is given the car and the chances to win the WDC and write his name in History, something he was very close to doing in 2008; finally of course driving for Ferrari provides him fame and hero status amongst hundreds of thousands or even millions of people. 99% of the world population would do the most insane things to be in his situation today and do what he did, thus continuing to enjoy those benefits, hell, people kill others just for 15 minutes of bad fame.
No need to thank him really, he did his job, he did it very well but he just did his job.

**BigRedOne** · 25th July 2010, 15:59

**BigRedOne** · 25th July 2010, 15:59

Originally Posted by pesquisa_2004

Ferrari is taking away my will to follow F1

**steelstallions** · 25th July 2010, 16:07

Originally Posted by Agron

He earns 15 million dollars or more each year just from the team, he likely earns a lot too from commercials and the like, in addition, at the start of the year he is given the car and the chances to win the WDC and write his name in History, something he was very close to doing in 2008; finally of course driving for Ferrari provides him fame and hero status amongst hundreds of thousands or even millions of people. 99% of the world population would do the most insane things to be in his situation today and do what he did, thus continuing to enjoy those benefits, hell, people kill others just for 15 minutes of bad fame.
No need to thank him really, he did his job, he did it very well but he just did his job.

No way, Massa did VERY LITTLE to make the decision worse than it was.
The flaming team on the radio did the damage.
If they were more subtle about it or had a better way of telling him to move over, then it would not have been so bloody obvious it was about to happen.
If I had not heard that flagrant message to basically let Alonso by and had only just seen the move and nothing else, it would have been different, we accept the team comes first.
Massa, unlike that sack of manure Barrichello, followed the order immediately 15 laps before the end. Unlike Rubins who left it just before the finishing line and cried like a girl on the podium, embarrassing the team, making MS make it even worse by being fined for putting him on the podium and generating all the venom against the team.
This time the team are to blame for fans feeling ill at the decision and the competition calling for our blood for breaking FIA rules

**Silent Bob** · 25th July 2010, 16:08

No. I tink at this stage the decision was the right one. The problem is there are too many people who are airing grievances in the open. There was no need for Smedley to say what he did over the air and no need for Massa to sulk in the post race interview.. the time for that is after in the motorhome away from the media. There was nothing unprofessional in what Domenicalli did.. it was Massa and his engineer that acted like children. They are professionals and should act like it. If this costs Ferrari their points or positions, then it'd be time to look for another #2 driver. Every driver knows if he's trailing in points he might be asked to move over, and most are professional about it.. Massa was acting like that other Brazilian, Barrichello. Shame on him.

**Ken** · 25th July 2010, 16:12

What ever earns and hopes for in terms of immortality and fame.
He still has the same desire as every other driver out there, To win a WDC, It is obvious from his reactions post race he had not expected to get that call.
Even more demoralising for him now is that there will never be a chance for a WDC while he is with Ferrari (and for that I feel sorry for Filipe )

One of the reasons I have followed Ferrari for the last 40+ years was that the WCC was far more important than the WDC to them. As the drivers in the last few years are more closely matched it has become harder to call who is No 1 and 2 and as such we have seen the emergence of drivers being contracted as 1 and 2, Now we have drivers of very equal abilities in at least 3 teams this notional idea of 1 and 2 is becoming outdated. So lets get back to the WCC is the goal and who ever is the WDC let that be sorted out on the track without any interference PLease.

**Agron** · 25th July 2010, 16:19

Originally Posted by steelstallions

No way, Massa did NOTHING to make the decision worse than it was.
The flaming team on the radio did the damage.
If they were more subtle about it or had a better way of telling him to move over, then it would not have been so bloody obvious it was about to happen.
If I had not heard that flagrant message to basically let Alonso by and had only just seen the move and nothing else, it would have been different, we accept the team comes first.
Massa, unlike that sack of manure Barrichello, followed the order immediately 15 laps before the end. Unlike Rubins who left it just before the finishing line and cried like a girl on the podium, embarrassing the team, making MS make it even worse by being fined for putting him on the podium and generating all the venom against the team.
This time the team are to blame for fans feeling ill at the decision and the competition calling for our blood for breaking FIA rules

I think you were quoting someone else ;).

IMO you are right, there should be some proper codes for this kind of thing as other teams have used this season, the way they said it made it absolutely obvious for fans, Smedly and Domenicalli saying sorry and congratulating on the radio wasn't perfect either as that's something better left for behind closed doors, although it was necessary for them to calm Felipe down before the press conference and podium ceremony to act his part, these guys are racing for two hours full of adrenalyne so they probably need that psychological help.
I don't think Massa did bad, maybe he could have done it in a less obvious way, but he wasn't happy about it obviously and the team radio had already made it clear, so what's the point?

**Silent Bob** · 25th July 2010, 16:24

Originally Posted by Ken

What ever earns and hopes for in terms of immortality and fame.
He still has the same desire as every other driver out there, To win a WDC, It is obvious from his reactions post race he had not expected to get that call.
Even more demoralising for him now is that there will never be a chance for a WDC while he is with Ferrari (and for that I feel sorry for Filipe )

One of the reasons I have followed Ferrari for the last 40+ years was that the WCC was far more important than the WDC to them. As the drivers in the last few years are more closely matched it has become harder to call who is No 1 and 2 and as such we have seen the emergence of drivers being contracted as 1 and 2, Now we have drivers of very equal abilities in at least 3 teams this notional idea of 1 and 2 is becoming outdated. So lets get back to the WCC is the goal and who ever is the WDC let that be sorted out on the track without any interference PLease.

Much as the WCC means a lot, more to most of us here as Ferrari supporters.. the WDC has more cache amongst a majority of fans, not to mention the matter of having the cars numbered as 1 & 2 next season. It is always better to win both titles, and there isn't anything wrong in asking the driver with the most points to finish ahead. It wasnt like Alonso was really slow. What disgusts me more is the complete lack of professionalism from Massa and his camp. They know that orders are illegal... why play games that could cost Ferrari serious points. 3 races in arow with controversy... getting tiring.

**Agron** · 25th July 2010, 16:26

Originally Posted by Ken

What ever earns and hopes for in terms of immortality and fame.
He still has the same desire as every other driver out there, To win a WDC, It is obvious from his reactions post race he had not expected to get that call.
Even more demoralising for him now is that there will never be a chance for a WDC while he is with Ferrari (and for that I feel sorry for Filipe )

One of the reasons I have followed Ferrari for the last 40+ years was that the WCC was far more important than the WDC to them. As the drivers in the last few years are more closely matched it has become harder to call who is No 1 and 2 and as such we have seen the emergence of drivers being contracted as 1 and 2, Now we have drivers of very equal abilities in at least 3 teams this notional idea of 1 and 2 is becoming outdated. So lets get back to the WCC is the goal and who ever is the WDC let that be sorted out on the track without any interference PLease.

He proved after 2007 being Kimi's subordinate then 2008 making Kimi give him position that he has every right to achieve the WDC when the season starts. He just needs to be in front of his teammate or not too far from him in points to allow him to fight for the title and not be forced to give up places for the good of the team.

The WDC gets more publicity than the WCC, and of course it's important for a team to say XX drivers won their titles in our cars. The WDC is almost as important for Ferrari as the WDC, and in a season where the WCC is looking dire, they wont let it escape.

**justjesper** · 25th July 2010, 16:35

What happend to the other post 'S H A M E O N YOU, F E R R A R I - D I S C U S T I N G'

It just disappeared

**Greig** · 25th July 2010, 16:36

Yeah it sure did, this is a Ferrari forum, if you are ashamed then post it on planet F1 or similar

**justjesper** · 25th July 2010, 16:43

I'm stunned. This was clearly something that people care about and it's gone ???

What is the reason to delete it Greig ?

**Greig** · 25th July 2010, 16:44

Originally Posted by justjesper

I'm stunned. This was clearly something that people care about and it's gone ???

What is the reason to delete it Greig ?

Members complained about it

use the race thread if you want to discuss the race

**Quattro** · 25th July 2010, 16:49

Originally Posted by Greig

Yeah it sure did, this is a Ferrari forum, if you are ashamed then post it on planet F1 or similar

So what happened to free speech your sensorship?

**justjesper** · 25th July 2010, 16:52

Originally Posted by Quattro

So what happened to free speech your sensorship?

This is Greig's world. We have free speech when Greig is on vacation

**Alonsomaniac** · 25th July 2010, 17:00

Being an Alonsofan I am very sorry for Felipe Massa and also Fernando Alonso that they both did not get the chance to fight for the victory.
For me today was a deception.

**GamD** · 25th July 2010, 17:00

Originally Posted by justjesper

This is Greig's world. We have free speech when Greig is on vacation

shhhhhh!

**Curbs** · 25th July 2010, 17:02

I agree the radiocall was BAD! But had Massa just done what he was supposed to, then it wouldn´t have happend. All this mess is thanks to Massa. So sack him.

**justjesper** · 25th July 2010, 17:09

Originally Posted by Curbs

I agree the radiocall was BAD! But had Massa just done what he was supposed to, then it wouldn´t have happend. All this mess is thanks to Massa. So sack him.

Massa was doing exactly what he was hired to do . WIN .
Alonso were bitching about being faster a few laps before and after the race he " knew nothing "
half the people here could see it. Is he stupid or perhaps he just cant put 2 and 2 together.
The team is at fault. If this is what they wanted they should had planed it before the race.

**Curbs** · 25th July 2010, 17:10

Him winning at this point is NOT IN THE INTRESSED OF OUR TEAM!
He has not a shot at the WDC!

**steelstallions** · 25th July 2010, 17:12

Originally Posted by Curbs

I agree the radiocall was BAD! But had Massa just done what he was supposed to, then it wouldn´t have happend. All this mess is thanks to Massa. So sack him.

What more did you want Massa to do?

He gave up the lead immediately 15 laps before the end and kept the 2nd spot.

He is a driver not an actor, so it would be asking a lot for him laugh and joke and hug and kiss the team when they have just told him to lose a race for his team mate.

**Alonsomaniac** · 25th July 2010, 17:14

Originally Posted by justjesper

Massa was doing exactly what he was hired to do . WIN .
Alonso were bitching about being faster a few laps before and after the race he " knew nothing "
half the people here could see it. Is he stupid or perhaps he just cant put 2 and 2 together.
The team is at fault. If this is what they wanted they should had planed it before the race.

Don't blame Alonso for this. At times he was indeed faster and clearly was not happy about it. It could have become an heroic fight for the win. But the team made this decision, something they NEVER should have done.
And ofcourse Fernando knew immediately what had happened, but what could he say?

**Curbs** · 25th July 2010, 17:14

Originally Posted by steelstallions

What more did you want Massa to do?

He gave up the lead immediately 15 laps before the end and kept the 2nd spot.

He is a driver not an actor, so it would be asking a lot for him laugh and joke and hug and kiss the team when they have just told him to lose a race for his team mate.

He could do what he did, but NOT THAT OBVIOUS! Everybody know teamorders still are around. But you could do it in a better way! For the team, that pays his sallary!

On lap 20 he could let Alonso past. In the hairpin. Insted he nearly drives Alonso of track! STUPID STUPID STUPID!