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Thread: Red Bull team orders/comments thread (all in here please)

  1. #61
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    I can’t see how Mark Webster can be such a moaner; He has the same car and team as Vettel. Yes RB have taken a wing from him and given it to Vettel, but what was the out come? Yes he won!
    All he is doing really is instead of getting on and winning he is looking for an excuse for losing.
    He can’t blame anybody but him self if he does not win, All Webber does in moan moan, moan. The RB team might favour Vettel, maybe they only favour vettel because he does not always cry and make stupid public rants.
    Even if Webber wins he moans!
    Webber even has me moaning about him now...

  2. #62
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    Next year Nico will be in the same spot as Webber.Merc is working on the 2011 car big time for sure for there #1 driver. AS soon as a team realizes they have THE car, like in Brawn's case, except Button almost blew it, the bad news is out as to who's #1 driver. Accepting it or not should be worked out when a driver gets signed up. I think Massa patiently waited his turn and then along came Alonso with his sponsor$$.Kimmi was blown out the door with a years pay. Great for us that Alonso is the great driver he is, but sad for Massa.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    A 1-2 for them with Webber in front of Vettel and with Alonso in third wouldn't be so bad either if Alonso could take Vettel at the start (Vettel will be on the dirty side in this scenario so anything is possible).... Vettel probably wouldn't try to hard to help Webber to the championship under that scenario.... but given the force that Vettel is in qualifying, this scenario isn't likley to happen.... I would be especially concerned with a 2nd place qualifying result for Webber and a third for Alonso as a collision might then ensue.... going to be a stressful race....
    If it's Vettel, Webber, and Alonso 1,2,3 on the starting grid, collision history favors us... still, I don't think I'll be able to keep my eyes open for the start. I've said this in another thread: reliability, IMO, may prove to be more important than grid slots. We need both Ferraris to run like tanks; the boys need to be able to push like anybody's business come Sunday. But you know what would take care of all this scenario and number crunching?

    A Ferrari 1-2.

    I still believe it could happen.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    If it's Vettel, Webber, and Alonso 1,2,3 on the starting grid, collision history favors us... still, I don't think I'll be able to keep my eyes open for the start. I've said this in another thread: reliability, IMO, may prove to be more important than grid slots. We need both Ferraris to run like tanks; the boys need to be able to push like anybody's business come Sunday. But you know what would take care of all this scenario and number crunching?

    A Ferrari 1-2.

    I still believe it could happen.
    Me too

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by brembo man View Post
    Next year Nico will be in the same spot as Webber.Merc is working on the 2011 car big time for sure for there #1 driver. AS soon as a team realizes they have THE car, like in Brawn's case, except Button almost blew it, the bad news is out as to who's #1 driver. Accepting it or not should be worked out when a driver gets signed up. I think Massa patiently waited his turn and then along came Alonso with his sponsor$$.Kimmi was blown out the door with a years pay. Great for us that Alonso is the great driver he is, but sad for Massa.
    Some of Massa's best defensive drives this year have been against Alonso, and in the first few races he held position behind Massa. Kind of makes this #1 and #2 drivers from the first race theory fall apart. And Santander earns more money in Brazil that does in Spain, with almost half it's income coming from South America, if they favoured someone, it would be Massa, as a matter of fact I think they were decisive in Massa staying while Kimi was the one to go.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by killer View Post
    If it's Vettel, Webber, and Alonso 1,2,3 on the starting grid, collision history favors us... still, I don't think I'll be able to keep my eyes open for the start. I've said this in another thread: reliability, IMO, may prove to be more important than grid slots. We need both Ferraris to run like tanks; the boys need to be able to push like anybody's business come Sunday. But you know what would take care of all this scenario and number crunching?

    A Ferrari 1-2.

    I still believe it could happen.
    SO DO I! unfortunately, the chances of RB 1-2 is higher than that of a Ferrari 1-2. Nevertheless, let us hope for the best. Its not impossible, Felipe is definitely capable of being up there with Fernando

  7. #67
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    a Ferrari 1-2 would indeed be a sweet ..imagine felipe p1, alonso p2...at least everyone would be happy

    imagine the teamPhoto..it would be a great moment to remember....really hope its ferrari day this coming sunday..at least it will be worth all the weekends n time that ive spend on watching F1 this season...

    p/s on another note, im sad to not see michael on the podium.....ferrari 1-2, n michael p3 would be a dream result for me, but in reality i know its a very slim chance

  8. #68
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    Formula 1 drivers' title is Red Bull's to lose

    The most realistic way for Mark Webber to overcome the numbers in his title fight with Fernando Alonso on Sunday is to head a Red Bull one-two in Abu Dhabi.

    Even if Alonso was third, the Australian would still seal overall victory.

    There are all sorts of permutations but this one does not stretch probability and is entirely conceivable.

    The Red Bull RB6 is demonstrably the fastest car and has scored four one-twos already this season. Doing that a fifth time would allow the team to put destiny in its own hands.

    But Alonso is adamant it was only the time he lost in getting past Lewis Hamilton and Nico Hulkenberg early on in the race in Brazil that prevented him being able to get among the Red Bulls, that he believed the Ferrari was every bit as fast.

    The Spaniard set a faster race lap than either Webber or Sebastian Vettel, who were only fourth and sixth respectively in the fastest race lap list, while Hamilton's McLaren set the fastest lap of all, with a time just four-thousandths better than Alonso's.

    So is Alonso right? Did the Brazil result flatter the Red Bulls?

    No, and it is hard not to detect a bit of title propaganda talk in Alonso's claims.

    Alonso is quite right in saying he lost crucial amounts of time fighting his way up to third in the early laps but when he did get there his pace was still consistently 0.5s off that of the Red Bulls.

    Despite Webber nursing an engine that was running too hot, they continued to pull away from the Ferrari.

    The fast times of Alonso and Hamilton came after the late safety car, when the track and the tyres were in their prime condition.

    By this time, the Red Bulls were cruising, just protecting position and that engine of Webber's.

    McLaren took a nothing-to-lose opportunity of pitting Hamilton under the safety car for a fresh set of tyres. The combination of new tyres with a fully rubbered-in track is what took Hamilton to the race's fastest lap.

    That Alonso all but matched that time on old tyres confirms that the Ferrari was actually quicker than the McLaren but there is nothing to suggest the Red Bulls could not have obliterated that time had they been pushing full-on when the track and tyres were at their peak.

    Horner expects drivers to do the right thing in final race
    Comparing pre- to post-safety car laps, it was notable that there was a big increase in the pace of even the cars that did not change tyres.

    "I think everyone's tyres were overheating," explains McLaren's Paddy Lowe. "Then, under the safety car, they cooled back to their optimum temperatures and so had a lot more grip when they restarted."

    Bridgestone's Hirohide Hamashima concurred.

    "Yes, the tyres were suffering from heat degradation here," he said. "The track temperature was very high. The safety car speeds brought the rubber back to its peak working temperature, helped by the fact that the track temperature was falling during this time also."

    There is nothing to suggest, in other words, that the two Red Bulls should not be the fastest two cars in Abu Dhabi. That one-two result is far from a straw-clinging exercise.

    But if there is one thing that should be worrying the team, it is just what Hamilton might manage in Abu Dhabi.

    He does not necessarily need to be in the absolute fastest car here to be the fastest. The track's layout last year allowed him to conjure some very special magic in qualifying.

    If he can somehow win the race this time, then all bets are off and Red Bull are at the mercy of their fate.

    Mark Hughes has been an F1 journalist for 10 years and is an award-winning author of several books
    "Okay,...Jean is smarter than you....... can you confirm you understood that message" Bernie on the phone to Max circa 2009

    Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari circa 1960

  9. #69
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    Formula 1 drivers' title is Red Bull's to lose

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/9168814.stm

    By Mark Hughes
    BBC F1 commentary box producer

    The most realistic way for Mark Webber to overcome the numbers in his title fight with Fernando Alonso on Sunday is to head a Red Bull one-two in Abu Dhabi.

    Even if Alonso was third, the Australian would still seal overall victory.

    There are all sorts of permutations but this one does not stretch probability and is entirely conceivable.

    The Red Bull RB6 is demonstrably the fastest car and has scored four one-twos already this season. Doing that a fifth time would allow the team to put destiny in its own hands.

    But Alonso is adamant it was only the time he lost in getting past Lewis Hamilton and Nico Hulkenberg early on in the race in Brazil that prevented him being able to get among the Red Bulls, that he believed the Ferrari was every bit as fast.
    The Spaniard set a faster race lap than either Webber or Sebastian Vettel, who were only fourth and sixth respectively in the fastest race lap list, while Hamilton's McLaren set the fastest lap of all, with a time just four-thousandths better than Alonso's.

    So is Alonso right? Did the Brazil result flatter the Red Bulls?

    No, and it is hard not to detect a bit of title propaganda talk in Alonso's claims.

    Alonso is quite right in saying he lost crucial amounts of time fighting his way up to third in the early laps but when he did get there his pace was still consistently 0.5s off that of the Red Bulls.

    Despite Webber nursing an engine that was running too hot, they continued to pull away from the Ferrari.

    The fast times of Alonso and Hamilton came after the late safety car, when the track and the tyres were in their prime condition.

    By this time, the Red Bulls were cruising, just protecting position and that engine of Webber's.

    McLaren took a nothing-to-lose opportunity of pitting Hamilton under the safety car for a fresh set of tyres. The combination of new tyres with a fully rubbered-in track is what took Hamilton to the race's fastest lap.

    That Alonso all but matched that time on old tyres confirms that the Ferrari was actually quicker than the McLaren but there is nothing to suggest the Red Bulls could not have obliterated that time had they been pushing full-on when the track and tyres were at their peak.
    Comparing pre- to post-safety car laps, it was notable that there was a big increase in the pace of even the cars that did not change tyres.

    "I think everyone's tyres were overheating," explains McLaren's Paddy Lowe. "Then, under the safety car, they cooled back to their optimum temperatures and so had a lot more grip when they restarted."

    Bridgestone's Hirohide Hamashima concurred.

    "Yes, the tyres were suffering from heat degradation here," he said. "The track temperature was very high. The safety car speeds brought the rubber back to its peak working temperature, helped by the fact that the track temperature was falling during this time also."

    There is nothing to suggest, in other words, that the two Red Bulls should not be the fastest two cars in Abu Dhabi. That one-two result is far from a straw-clinging exercise.

    But if there is one thing that should be worrying the team, it is just what Hamilton might manage in Abu Dhabi.

    He does not necessarily need to be in the absolute fastest car here to be the fastest. The track's layout last year allowed him to conjure some very special magic in qualifying.

    If he can somehow win the race this time, then all bets are off and Red Bull are at the mercy of their fate.

    Mark Hughes has been an F1 journalist for 10 years and is an award-winning author of several books
    we're number one

  10. #70
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    I wonder if Mr Hughes will be dissapointed when Nando nails it on Sunday
    "Okay,...Jean is smarter than you....... can you confirm you understood that message" Bernie on the phone to Max circa 2009

    Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari circa 1960

  11. #71
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    Merged these two threads, they were posted virtually simultaneously :)

    As for the article, I agree with MH even though he's got his own agenda.... Red Bull is definitely in the drivers seat here.... not very positive for this weekend....
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  12. #72
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    This guy is a tool...wasnt he the one who suggested that Massa held back the field in Korea...

    Why would Webber be in conservation mode when his goal should have been to push Vettel all the way to the end.

    Why would Alonso chase down the red-bulls when they were so far ahead putting his engine and points at risk for not much benefit.

    And lets see Hamilton has a better change to beat the bulls in Abu Dabhi because of track lay out but not Alonso...hmmm..sounds like a little Hami lovefest comment.
    we're number one

  13. #73
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    Oh and forgot to mention, guys/girls, can you please post the link to the articles you're referencing and not post the entire story, there could be legal implications if the whole story is re-published here....
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  14. #74
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    He does bring up an interesting point. Hamilton was able to beat the bulls here last year to pole. Give me hope that we should be able to do the same
    we're number one

  15. #75
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    I am very positive
    "Okay,...Jean is smarter than you....... can you confirm you understood that message" Bernie on the phone to Max circa 2009

    Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari circa 1960

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Oh and forgot to mention, guys/girls, can you please post the link to the articles you're referencing and not post the entire story, there could be legal implications if the whole story is re-published here....
    whoops
    "Okay,...Jean is smarter than you....... can you confirm you understood that message" Bernie on the phone to Max circa 2009

    Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari circa 1960

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony View Post
    Oh and forgot to mention, guys/girls, can you please post the link to the articles you're referencing and not post the entire story, there could be legal implications if the whole story is re-published here....
    understood.. I have always been posting the link along with the article to give the author due credit.. I thought that was OK as long as we had the link...just to confirm we should just be posting the title and the link and no story from now on?
    we're number one

  18. #78
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    Thing is its prob best to give a potted account because some may have repetative can't be assssed to click injury
    "Okay,...Jean is smarter than you....... can you confirm you understood that message" Bernie on the phone to Max circa 2009

    Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari circa 1960

  19. #79
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    I wish also Ham to take the win in AD with web 2, vet 3 and alonso 4. We will be champions then.

  20. #80
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    Alonso may have a point here; had he not lost time with hamilton and hulkenberg, he might have put enough pressure on red bulls so that webber wasn't able to nurse his overheating engine...and hwo knows, a blown engine for webber...

  21. #81
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    'We don't manipulate things like Ferrari do' - Mateschitz

    Red Bull co-owner Dietrich Mateschitz would rather lose the drivers' title to Fernando Alonso and Ferrari than force team orders on his drivers.

    If Sebastian Vettel finishes ahead of Mark Webber at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix next weekend, Alonso will only have to finish fourth to seal the title. However, team principal Christian Horner has already made clear that Vettel and Webber will be free to race and make their own decisions as to whether they help each other out in Abu Dhabi.

    "Let the two drivers race and whatever will be will be," Mateschitz told Austrian paper Kliene Zeitung. "If Alonso wins we will have been unlucky.

    "I predict a Hollywood ending, with the worst case scenario that we don't become champion but if that's the case, we'll do it next year. Our philosophy stays the same because this is a sport and it must remain a sport."

    At the German Grand Prix, Felipe Massa made way for Ferrari team-mate Alonso, giving him seven crucial extra points in the championship. But Mateschitz has made clear that his team will not do the same.

    "We don't manipulate things like Ferrari do," he added. "The whole world condemned them after what they did in Hockenheim. But we have turned out to look like idiots because we have not acted in this way."

    "We have never even thought about it as long as both our drivers remain in the hunt for the championship. So a second place under correct circumstances might be better than a win on grounds of orders and confirmations."


    http://en.espnf1.com/redbull/motorsp...ory/33542.html

  22. #82
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    Works for me!!

    Keep up the good work Mateschitz, history will remember you, not!

  23. #83
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    I hope they insist that vettel NOT let Webber through even though he doesnt have a chance of winning it with Alonso third...Who cares about their piety and place in heaven as people who do good deeds..We will have the victory and that will be all that is remembered.
    we're number one

  24. #84
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    Lets hope they live up to those holier than thou words


    These people they never learn

  25. #85
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    So what was the deal at Silverstone then........
    Forza Ferrari

  26. #86
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    Just another hypocrite... F1 world is filled with them, sadly.

  27. #87
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    Red Bull is a marketing led company.

    I don't believe that it gives me wings either

    "Luna faccia schiaffo testa"

  28. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrari4life View Post
    understood.. I have always been posting the link along with the article to give the author due credit.. I thought that was OK as long as we had the link...just to confirm we should just be posting the title and the link and no story from now on?
    Hi ideally, the best is to post the link and a portion of the story that you are interested in.... not the whole story.... but there has been some inconsistency in this.... at the least we should be posting a link to the story as you've done :)
    Rest in Peace Leza, you were a true warrior...

  29. #89
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    A case of Protests too much. Mee thinks he might not be dissapointed with Alonso takinng the WDC if the only alternative was Webber. No Brainer??
    "Okay,...Jean is smarter than you....... can you confirm you understood that message" Bernie on the phone to Max circa 2009

    Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines - Enzo Ferrari circa 1960

  30. #90
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    Let me blow the dust off this statement, it seems so ancient now. If Red Bull wants to do it this way so be it.

    The problem is with this holier then thou approach, if Red Bull does anything that smells faintly of team orders they will be crucified. Even if Vettel indicates he will voluntarily move over to help Webber it leaves suspicion in everyone’s mind.

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