Massa: More penalties for Hamilton

[Ken]

Of course he would say that, he wasn't going to own up to the fact that he should have backed out of it once he realised he was off the racing line

Do you drive a car at all ??

If part of the suspension or the steering rods have been damaged or If the chassis has been warped it becomes impossible to direct the vehicle exactly where you want it to go.

Now if you are blessed with such magnificent eye sight that you could see Massa's car was in perfect drivable condition then I would acknowledge your remark, BUT I dont believe you are that divinely blessed sir and untill you are dont be rediculous.

[de Portago]

When you continually criticise a driver for everything he does irrespective of whether he is responsible/at fault or not, yes it is bashing. It cannot be seen as a balanced or rational view point where you constantly point out the negative, but don't give the benefit of the doubt or notice the positives.

With all due respect, I have merely pointed at the footage. The Spanish commentators on that clip -Gene and PDLR- both point out at Massa's fault. Of course they know better than me....

[Tifosi]

I'm not assuming anything. The video clearly shows Massa running onto the marbles and crashing. What more evidence do you need?

I cant be bothered if you cant. Go and find out what Massa said about the effect on the car of Hami driving into him if you want to be fair or just stick to your negative assumptions that clearly "need no more evidence". You dont even know WHY Lewis was penalised so best you read up before commenting again

[OldskoolF1]

That clip doesn't show the whole story though. It doesn't show the entrance to the tunnel or how Lewis ended up on the inside. Unfortunatly cuts at the wrong point. Once you are wide you are wide, the video doesn't show how he ended up wide.

That's fair enough we did't see the entrance to the tunnel you are right. Inside the tunnel though the move was never on and Massa should have backed out imo

[Sianellen]

You are right, but Felipe does not claim that Hamilton hit him at the entrance of the tunnel. He merely claims that his car was damaged, but he does not offer any details as to how. We can only speculate but it is clear that Hamilton gained the inside lane and at that point the only way out for Felipe would have been to back off and let Hamilton pass. He didn't and we can see the result. Veredict? It's anyboby's guess.

I'm not suggesting Lewis hit him again. All I was trying to point out was we don't see the moment that put Felipe on the outside in the tunnel which is the critical bit really. He says the damage to his car meant he went wide I just didn't understand why that was to be disbelieved is all. As to him being able to back off i think it was too late once he was on the outside plus damage may have had an impact.

[OldskoolF1]

I cant be bothered if you cant. Go and find out what Massa said about the effect on the car of Hami driving into him if you want to be fair or just stick to your negative assumptions that clearly "need no more evidence". You dont even know WHY Lewis was penalised so best you read up before commenting again

Ok I won't bother. I don't wear the same tinted glasses as you. Why race Lewis on the marbles with a broken car then? If you don't like my comments then organise to have me booted off, sure you can pull a few strings

[REDARMYSOJA]

We can only speculate but it is clear that Hamilton gained the inside lane and at that point the only way out for Felipe would have been to back off and let Hamilton pass. .

What's not clear is how Hamilton gained that inside line. It could be due to Massa's car washing out once it reached tunnel speed because of the damage inflicted in the chicane incident. That is if one can give Massa the benefit of the doubt. Some don't seem to be able to do that.

[Kyss4k]

I don't know what to think. I was slowly changing my mind about Lewis but after today's race... Well I actually don't know if his moves was ok or not... I was sure that he behaved like a pig but after so much brainwash from every side of the barrier I don't have my own opinion anymore, I am just too confused

I do know we are Tifosi here but do anyone have not biased opinion here? Just need some clue or I will not sleep tonight...

[Mrs.Domenicali]

With all due respect, I have merely pointed at the footage. The Spanish commentators on that clip -Gene and PDLR- both point out at Massa's fault. Of course they know better than me....

Please post the footage and comments from Gene I would like to see them. And don't worry about it being in Spanish I can understand

[de Portago]

I'm not suggesting Lewis hit him again. All I was trying to point out was we don't see the moment that put Felipe on the outside in the tunnel which is the critical bit really. He says the damage to his car meant he went wide I just didn't understand why that was to be disbelieved is all. As to him being able to back off i think it was too late once he was on the outside.

If you see the first 15 seconds of the german footage you will see that Hamilton's car does not seem to touch anything in Massa's car other than the left pontoon and that Felipe has no problem in taking the very tight right hand turn into the entrance of the tunnel. As Oldskool I find it difficult to believe that Felipe's explanation is nothing more than an understandable excuse. Also, the Spanish footage by Gene and PDLR undoubtedly lay the blame on Felipe. I'd like to be proved worng with anything more susbtantial than the typical accusation of Massa bashing.

[hogo]

I'm not assuming anything. The video clearly shows Massa running onto the marbles and crashing. What more evidence do you need?

I was talking about the turn before this tunnel. Hamster was clearly behind, tho on exit you see him going side by side with Massa. Do you ever wonder why did this happen? Or have you just simply assumed that Massa forgot to accelerate? Car was clearly damaged therefor Massa was an easy prey on that "straight".

[Mrs.Domenicali]

If you see the first 15 seconds of the german footage you will see that Hamilton's car does not seem to touch anything in Massa's car other than the left pontoon and that Felipe has no problem in taking the very tight right hand turn into the entrance of the tunnel. As Oldskool I find it difficult to believe that Felipe's explanation is nothing more than an understandable excuse. Also, the Spanish footage by Gene and PDLR undoubtedly lay the blame on Felipe. I'd like to be proved worng with anything more susbtantial than the typical accusation of Massa bashing.

Footage or direct evidence of Gene making said comment please

[Greig]

If you see the first 15 seconds of the german footage you will see that Hamilton's car does not seem to touch anything in Massa's car other than the left pontoon and that Felipe has no problem in taking the very tight right hand turn into the entrance of the tunnel. As Oldskool I find it difficult to believe that Felipe's explanation is nothing more than an understandable excuse. Also, the Spanish footage by Gene and PDLR undoubtedly lay the blame on Felipe. I'd like to be proved worng with anything more susbtantial than the typical accusation of Massa bashing.

Did Hamilton not push Felipe into Webber and part of his front wing came off? Which would cause a loss of downforce and maybe when applying further load to the wing in tunnel the wing failed further causing him to understeer wide onto the marbles and then he is just a passenger? But off course you go down the Felipe is not intelligent route without really knowing....

[Tifosi]

If you see the first 15 seconds of the german footage you will see that Hamilton's car does not seem to touch anything in Massa's car other than the left pontoon and that Felipe has no problem in taking the very tight right hand turn into the entrance of the tunnel. As Oldskool I find it difficult to believe that Felipe's explanation is nothing more than an understandable excuse. Also, the Spanish footage by Gene and PDLR undoubtedly lay the blame on Felipe. I'd like to be proved worng with anything more susbtantial than the typical accusation of Massa bashing.

Exactly. You ASSUME and you DOUBT your own driver because it suits you to do so. You have no evidence but that doesn't really matter to you does it? That's pretty clear bashing for bashing's sake.

Hope it makes you happy

[OldskoolF1]

I was talking about the turn before this tunnel. Hamster was clearly behind, tho on exit you see him going side by side with Massa. Do you ever wonder why did this happen? Or have you just simply assumed that Massa forgot to accelerate? Car was clearly damaged therefor Massa was an easy prey on that "straight".

If the car was damaged he should have backed out all together then, he should have known he was not going to make the corner

[Rob]

Felipe Massa: “I am very disappointed with the way my race ended. After Hamilton had tried to pass me at Loews, which is an impossible place to do it, hitting me and pushing me into Webber, the car was no longer right and I could not drive it properly, which is why he got on the inside of me inside the tunnel. That put me on the dirt and then I ended up in the barrier. At the start, I got away well, but at the first corner I found Webber and Fernando in front of me: I was on the outside and Rosberg managed to get inside me. That meant I missed out on the train that would have kept me up with the leaders, as I spent too much time behind the German’s Mercedes. Today, we were competitive and, given how things went, I could have finished fourth. Now, we head for Canada, where we hope to have a car capable of fighting, as was the case here. The fact we will have the same two types of tyre, the soft and supersoft, is definitely positive for us.”

[hogo]

If the car was damaged he should have backed out all together then, he should have known he was not going to make the corner

How can you tell how severe damage is after just making 2 very slow corners?

[Tifosi]

How can you tell how severe damage is after just making 2 very slow corners?

because his whole argument hinges on it

[Anni]

We should alltogether be angry on Hamilton, but instead we discuss if we do trust the word of a Ferrari driver! This is sad!

[Anni]

If the car was damaged he should have backed out all together then, he should have known he was not going to make the corner

If he backed out, people would be moaning he gave the position away too easily.

[OldskoolF1]

How can you tell how severe damage is after just making 2 very slow corners?

Read the post above yours, according to Massa he knew before going onto the marbles the car was not right

[Mrs.Domenicali]

Read the post above yours, according to Massa he knew before going onto the marbles the car was not right

and how does that validate hamilton going into him in the first place?

[OldskoolF1]

and how does that validate hamilton going into him in the first place?

I never said it did!!

[de Portago]

Exactly. You ASSUME and you DOUBT your own driver because it suits you to do so. You have no evidence but that doesn't really matter to you does it? That's pretty clear bashing for bashing's sake.

Hope it makes you happy

It obviously suits Gene and PDLR too:

Gene: Jeez... he has tried to overtake him inside the tunnel
.... he's gone to the dirty side and then off...
PDLR: From Loews' Hamilton has taken the inside line, [Massa] has gone to the dirt and the marbles and there the car does not go.
Gene: However, I have never seen anyone overteking inside the tunnel
PDLR: Hamilton had really much more traction getting out of the corners.
Gene: You cannot get out of the racing line and into the marbles... there is only one racing line.

It seems to me that Massa was simply excusing his error. Understandably.

[de Portago]

Exactly. You ASSUME and you DOUBT your own driver because it suits you to do so. You have no evidence but that doesn't really matter to you does it? That's pretty clear bashing for bashing's sake.

Hope it makes you happy

It obviously suits Gene and PDLR too:

Gene: Jeez... he has tried to overtake him inside the tunnel
.... he's gone to the dirty side and then off...
PDLR: From Loews' Hamilton has taken the inside line, [Massa] has gone to the dirt and the marbles and there the car does not go.
Gene: However, I have never seen anyone overtaking inside the tunnel
PDLR: Hamilton had really much more traction getting out of the corners.
Gene: You cannot get out of the racing line and into the marbles... there is only one racing line.

It seems to me that Massa was simply excusing his error. Understandably.

[de Portago]

If he backed out, people would be moaning he gave the position away too easily.

Well, if he backed off he could have ended the race in the points.

[de Portago]

If he backed out, people would be moaning he gave the position away too easily.

Well, if he backed off he could have ended the race in the points.

[Tifosi]

It obviously suits Gene and PDLR too:

It seems to me that Massa was simply excusing his error. Understandably.

As we all know, Pundits watching TV monitors are always right. You better ring up PDLR and ask him what you should think about everything else you see on TV dude. That way you will never be wrong again

I trust the greasy emailer implicitly! Much more than my own driver - obviously!

[Greig]

It obviously suits Gene and PDLR too:



It seems to me that Massa was simply excusing his error. Understandably.

Don't see then putting any blame on Massa there, neither do they know the full facts, they just state what they saw...strange you take blame on Massa from those comments, actually not that strange at all.

[giodap]

the bottom line is, hamilton had a shocker today, he proved he cant handle the pressure when it gets tough like lordalonso can. regardless of whether massa was to blame or not for the crash, massa had a relatively calm and level headed race (kept out of trouble) hamilton did not, i think on that basis hamiltons ruthless approach today means that the finger automatically gets pointed at him. and quite rightly so in my opinion...