Massa: More penalties for Hamilton

[OldskoolF1]

You have been asked several times by the moderators to be nice and to discuss the subject at hand, you are not going to be asked again.

sorry if I don't agree with your friend

[OldskoolF1]

and therefore the point is wasted dude

All we have ALL been saying is that it's not really fair to assume that your team's driver is to blame when you have no evidence and you only have the unsubstantiated opinion of a TV pundit or two to base your opinion on.

It's not a ganging up thing dude. It's just natural as Ferrari supporters to not assume that our driver is to blame based purely on selective evidence and the initial opinions of TV people (that other do not agree with your summations of) without fair trial.

Its a Ferrari forum too so it makes logical sense. No offence meant.

You got me mixed up son, I'm not the one providing video evidence or going by what Gene and PDLR says,. Read the thread again and then you will see everything I say is my own opinion and I stand by it. Also, don't speak to me as if I don't know anything about Ferrari. You said it yourself it's dangerous to assume

[Suzie]

Who is the groupie? I am intrigued.

[Tifosi]

You got me mixed up son, I'm not the one providing video evidence or going by what Gene and PDLR says,. Read the thread again and then you will see everything I say is my own opinion and I stand by it

why cant you debate the points raised against it if you stand by it then?

[Sianellen]

Who is the groupie? I am intrigued.

I think he said it was Ken. I'm clueless.

[OldskoolF1]

why cant you debate the points raised against it if you stand by it then?

It's hard to debate anything if you are met with sarcasm and ridicule. What makes you so special anyway that your opinion carries more weight than mine?

[Mrs.Domenicali]

sorry if I don't agree with your friend

Which part of my previous post did you not understand? You have been asked by 2 mods now to refrain from making personal remarks and to discuss the subject at hand, yet you continue to derail the thread with personal remarks and telling people to hop along. Would you like to hop along? it can be arranged.

JUST IN CASE YOU MISSED IT FIRST TIME AND SECOND TIME, DISCUSS THE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD AND NOT EACH OTHER.

[OldskoolF1]

lol ok

[Meiga]

Lewis came in 9th for his drive through and came back out 9th. Got a 20 sec. penalty for running into Maldanano which didn't cost him a spot. The tries to intimidate the officials. Massa is right, Hamilton needs a good smackdown by the FIA.

[Tifosi]

It's hard to debate anything if you are met with sarcasm and ridicule.

My apologies OldSkool, I did confuse that up

It's not a case of ridicule though. It's really just asking for a bit of debate as to why you assumed that Massa was to blame for a defensive move that we don't know (and he refutes) he made on Hami in the tunnel.

If you are assuming that, isn't it fair that it's debated by a call for evidence?

[Greig]

Who is the groupie? I am intrigued.

I would like to be nominated for the role

[Suzie]

Hop along, son. You've no chance.

[Sianellen]

I would like to be nominated for the role

Who would you be a groupie of though?

[scuderiafan]

i dont know how this fits in, but in my view, Lewis bashed Felipe good and hard not just once, a couple times.

now, the suspension wouldnt have taken that very well, and he could have had big vibration.

Say what you like. Felipe would not have been in the position he was in the tunnel, if some fool that thoguht he was the gods gift to overtaking didnt give him a right bash!


And i wouldnt listen to fanboys on other forums, or Martin or DC. i love their commentary, but i was surprised how little they knew about Alonsos charge. it was all 'Button this 'Button that'. even when Fernando got into 2nd, they almost dismissed him. if he won, they may have had major egg on faces.

[Tifosi]

You can't be a groupie when you're the road manager. It doesn't work!

[Sianellen]

You can't be a groupie when you're the road manager. It doesn't work!

Does that make us Greigs groupies?

[Greig]

Who would you be a groupie of though?

I'm easy

[OldskoolF1]

My apologies OldSkool, I did confuse that up

It's not a case of ridicule though. It's really just asking for a bit of debate as to why you assumed that Massa was to blame for a defensive move that we don't know (and he refutes) he made on Hami in the tunnel.

If you are assuming that, isn't it fair that it's debated by a call for evidence?

I did explain quite a few times why I thought Massa was to blame for crashing in the tunnel. I'm not disputing the contact between him and Hamilton at all, I just think Massa could have avoided the accident by backing out not to loose it on the marbles. If his car was broken due to the contact then he should have backed out way earlier than trying to make it stick around the outside of Lewis. The general feeling is that Lewis was to blame for that and imo he wasn't (the tunnel that is). Just an opinion... I wish I never said anything now

[Tifosi]

Does that make us Greigs groupies?

O


M


G

[Tifosi]

I did explain quite a few times why I thought Massa was to blame for crashing in the tunnel. I'm not disputing the contact between him and Hamilton at all, I just think Massa could have avoided the accident by backing out not to loose it on the marbles. If his car was broken due to the contact then he should have backed out way earlier than trying to make it stick around the outside of Lewis. The general feeling is that Lewis was to blame for that and imo he wasn't (the tunnel that is). Just an opinion... I wish I never said anything now

heheh

Lewis was to blame for hitting him and pushing him into Webber. The rest we only have the driver's opinions on. I can't see Massa risking going on the marbles of his own choice myself. He's not that dumb. I guess we'll never know.

One thing I know, Lewis is a pillock.

[aj17ay]

This is onboard with Hamilton as he crashes into Massa.

The footage carries on through into the tunnel.

[Tifosi]

thanks aj. I think that shows there was no tunnel defending and that Massa was was way wider than he would have been under speed if he wasn't crippled in some way by the contact. Not normal at all.

[RockyRaccoon]

I can see why Massa was mad, he was having a great race until then with a great pass on Rosberg. Then Hamilton came along and destroyed everything.

The "Massa needs replaces" brigade will be saying that he hasn't scored points in two races now even though both times something has happened out of his control. Everything is just going against him at the minute.

[Suzie]

He had a run of 3 non-scores last season so I guess the same thing is happening again
Trying to tell myself that there's still 13/14 races left for his luck to change. Please!

[crewskas]

Massa was just a passenger...
Also Ferrari was having a huge hole in the side, from the crash with Hamster. This means, either way, he would have to retire...

And some believe it was his fault to crash...............

[Alonsofan2002]

lewis

[killer]

This is onboard with Hamilton as he crashes into Massa.

The footage carries on through into the tunnel.

Shouldn't Lewis have backed off after he first hit Massa? (around 0:10) He could have, right?

They ought to have a look at this--that's not just causing a collision, that's wanting to spear somebody into the barriers.

Also: was it just me or did it seem the stewards took their sweet time in handing out Lewis' drive through? It did look like they were waiting for the cars to spread out (from after the safety car) before they gave Lewis his penalty; he did not lose track position.

[durden]

I'd just like to say you are all welcome! Every time I bet on anyone to win, their day goes all wrong. And I bet on Hamilton for this one. So, you're welcome.

[Poltergeistes]

Nobody ever tries to overtake in that tight corner, this is the one known rule for all the F1 drivers, don't try it, cause it's too tight, the only way to do it is if you push your opponent into the wall or try driving your car on his back, which is what lewis chose to do.

His interview was very insightful to me, this is what he likes, he likes to give the show, he thinks that his way of driving is the best, and the way all fans like it, and now he's saying it's because he is black.

Felipe again having some real bad luck, however the things that he has control over, he has been good, it's a shame lewis did this to him.

[Sha1]

I want to point out that it's pretty ironic that this thread started off with discussion of Hamilton doing wrong and getting off easy, and yet we have people in the same thread bashing Felipe and getting off easy as well. I'll have to check the rulebook, but is that not a case of bringing TSN into disrepute?

Regarding Massa, it's pretty clear that some components of his left sidepod and obviously his front wing were damaged enough to cause massive understeer going into the tunnel, causing him to run wide. Running wide off the racing line onto huge amounts of marble with a damaged wing whilst trying to defend your position is bound to result in something negative. From what I understand, it's not a natural instinct to be cautious when you're racing for position... I guess some people were expecting him to play it safe, hit the brakes and just cruise through the tunnel?

When you're trying to solve a problem you immediately go to the root cause, which in this case was Hamilton using Massa as his personal guard rail through the hairpin. Whatever happened afterwards (tunnel incident) was simply an effect of the initial cause.