Are the Ferrari engineers and technicians feeling underrated and unappreciated?

[Massimo]

Let me start by saying that this thought belongs to Rob Newman, as posted on JA on F1, i'll just rewrite it in my own words.

The fact is Fernando Alonso in the F2012 is just a handful of points behind Sebastian Vettel, who is, according to some, driving an RB8 from another dimension.
From the first test in Jerez, we had to live with the idea that the F2012 was a complete nightmare of a car, and our chances of winning a title were reduced to zero, but as the season progressed Alonso seemed to be capable of extracting the absolute maximum from the package, and even took the lead in driver's championship, while the crew at Maranello were making endless hours to improve the F2012, Alonso took every hundreds of a seccond he could from every update they supplied him with.

The speed in wich the car was develloped and improved was nothing less then impressive, while other teams struggled, McLaren for instance were very strong at the beginning of the season, but lost the developement battle some time later in the season, and while trying to get back their speed, lost their reliability, Lotus have a very fast car, but it seems to be working under specific circumstances only, mainly warm to hot temperatures.
Red Bull were also not on the right track and clearly trying to find out in wich direction to develope the car.

Ferrari on the other hand, did not have the fastest car, but it is a car that pereforms good to very good under all kind of circumstances, dry, wet, warm, cold, and is very reliable, just qualfying seems to be their achilles heel, mainly due to an to agressive DRS, put an weapon like that in the hands of an gladiator like Fernando Alonso and you are bound to get results.
Now at the end of the season the F2012 is the only car that is able to fight for the title, and on race pace take the war to Red Bull.

Every succes we get, every good result, basicaly everything is beiing put on Alonso's conto, because giving up is not an option for him, and the fact that he can take more from a car then there is actually in it, i think we are not doiing justice to the Ferrari engineers and technicians, who are under immens pressure, had to come (developement wise) from a lot further back then the other teams, and may not have been right all the time, but in the end they gave Alonso a car with wich he can fight for victories, and for the title untill the very last race.
But all the press writes about is that the car is rubbish, and it is only because of Alonso that we are were we are.

Surely this can't be only Alonso's work, but the impression is beiing made that it is, and this could create some unhappiness back at Maranello.
So i can speak only for myself, but i would like to say to everybody involved in building and developing this car "Grande ragazzi, grande!"

[fratelliferrari]

Well said Massimo! We have to give credits for the whole team not only the guys at the Grand Prix's but also back in the factory! Iam 110% sure they want the title as much as we all do here on the forum and i would never say that the engineers and technicians don't do their job well! They put all their efforts in it and making very looong days to get the best out of the car! We must be proud of the whole team! You can't win a WDC just by your own, there is a whole team behind Fernando and Felipe to support them in achieving the results. We win together and we lose together!

[Hornet]

The reason why many people mentioned that Alonso played a huge role is because when you compare Alonso and Massa's result, there's a huge difference. Massa was out of the title fight a long time ago and so we ask, is Massa's result a reflection of what the car is capable of in the hands of a good driver? If Massa, as a good driver, can only do so much with the F2012 this year, then it hints that Alonso's ability was what made all the difference.

Its not as simple as saying Alonso won 3 races, so the F2012 is a great race winning car. No doubt Ferrari as a team has fought really hard and thanks to Ferrari's fighting spirit, we are at where we are today.

Now you should be looking at the technical side of things. We took a gamble with the Acer duct which did not work out. Nothing wrong with taking the risk, but it did not work out and we have to accept that. So we're stuck with the chassis that was design for something we're no longer using. Ferrari themself said they had no plans to redesign the sidepod and the cooling system so the chassis stayed the same, compromises had to be made. By Ferrari's own admission, we have had correlation issue with the wind tunnel and our development program wasn't progressing much.

That is not to say the team sucks. But we simply did not get it this year. Red Bull did a better job in building a great car. This is a fact.

No one is saying Ferrari is not trying because they are. But we simply got outdone by our competitors this year on the technical side of things. This is the important difference you need to note. Saying the car is not good is not the same as saying the team did not try. You seem to imply otherwise.

If you think Red Bull is strong just because of their DRS, you are mistaken.

[FA fan]

Well IMO I think credit should go to the teams engineers and technicians and to Alonso also,now who should get more credit is not that simple to judge,cuz I think if you compare Alonso to massa to understand better is also complex,cuz massa is driving much better in the last few races then he did in the begining of the year,so if massa was driving the same way now,and Alonso driving the way he did,and after that if the gap between the 2 would be huge,then I suppose most credit should go to Alonso. One thing is for sure,the 2010 car was more competitive,although Alonso made more mistakes than this year,he still went to the last race leading!
Also it is true the speed of development was impressive,but I suppose if you have a car that is way slow in the beginning of the season,then to improve it becomes easier as the gap to improvement is big! Well that's just my point of view..

[bluesilhouettes]

Ferrari and Fernando did get out the most of the car, limit of the chasis Ferarri chose. But RBR is better than Ferrari because they have accumulated very good knowlegde in aerodynamics in years. The whole RBR team work perfectly.
Mclaren is so strong but they have made too many mistakes. Happily we are 2nd on WCC, and 2nd on WDC. Those are not where we suppose to be.
We need more time to catch up, maybe next year will be better.

[aroutis]

First of all, excellent thread and big thumbs up.

All I am going to say is that this is a TEAM sport. And to the words of a great one, we stand together, we fall together. There's no such thing as someone should be praised more or less. Everyone, in their own way make the team what is known to be, which is the legend of Motorsports.
Yes, we could have had a killer car this year, no we have not have that car, still we have a very competitive car. Indeed, we're second in the WCC and in the WDC. Yes, if Massa was driving as good as he does right now, we 'd probably be first in WCC. But with "if" we don't go anywhere.

I am proud of our team, I am proud of the effort they've put since day one to correct the situation, I have faith in them and I 'm sure they'll do what they can to have a better package for next year!

[Massimo]

The reason why many people mentioned that Alonso played a huge role is because when you compare Alonso and Massa's result, there's a huge difference. Massa was out of the title fight a long time ago and so we ask, is Massa's result a reflection of what the car is capable of in the hands of a good driver? If Massa, as a good driver, can only do so much with the F2012 this year, then it hints that Alonso's ability was what made all the difference.

Its not as simple as saying Alonso won 3 races, so the F2012 is a great race winning car. No doubt Ferrari as a team has fought really hard and thanks to Ferrari's fighting spirit, we are at where we are today.

Now you should be looking at the technical side of things. We took a gamble with the Acer duct which did not work out. Nothing wrong with taking the risk, but it did not work out and we have to accept that. So we're stuck with the chassis that was design for something we're no longer using. Ferrari themself said they had no plans to redesign the sidepod and the cooling system so the chassis stayed the same, compromises had to be made. By Ferrari's own admission, we have had correlation issue with the wind tunnel and our development program wasn't progressing much.

That is not to say the team sucks. But we simply did not get it this year. Red Bull did a better job in building a great car. This is a fact.

No one is saying Ferrari is not trying because they are. But we simply got outdone by our competitors this year on the technical side of things. This is the important difference you need to note. Saying the car is not good is not the same as saying the team did not try. You seem to imply otherwise.

If you think Red Bull is strong just because of their DRS, you are mistaken.

I disagree with you to say that if it wasn't only Fernando, Massa should get the same results, with all respect to Felipe, he is an excellent racecar driver, but Fernando is in a league of his own, he can addapt his driving style to any situation, better then Felipe can, but there has to be something in it (the car) to be able to take it out, that is where Fernando is on top of his game.
Nowhere do i say the team sucks, on the contrary, i'm giving them the respect they (in my opinion) are not getting by most of the press.

Neither did i say that Red Bull is stronger just because of their DRS, i just said Ferrari is suffering in qualifying mainly because of an agressive DRS, that Red Bull has build an overall better car, is evident.
But it took them a while to get there, while Ferrari slowly but surely made progress, maintaining their reliabilty, and now in the end just Alonso and the F2012 are in a position to take the title, if you would have told me that at the beginning of the season, i would've settled for that, i just felt the need to point out that not everything is Alonso's credit, due to his incredible talent, there's a team behind him, and to many times i read that the car is so bad, but thanks to Fernando we are still alive, that point of vieuw i felt the need to correct.

Because we not only have the absolute best driver, we also have the best team, pitstops, strategy, etc., so my point was to also give some credit to the peolple who are to often beiing accused of building a bad car, because in the end, the F2012 might not be the best, but it's also not the tractor some think it is, it's a team effort, always has been, always will be.

[wisepie]

I have to agree with all the above posts and I think too many so-called tifosi were too ready to criticise the the engineers and technicians when the results showed us to be way off the pace. All credit then to those who made the car more competitive over the season but something fundamental must have been wrong at the start, as well as the lack of decent wind tunnel facilities, so the fight-back has been incredible within the current regulations. Yes Fernando can seem to handle any situation better than Felipe, but |I'm sure development of the car over the season was down to both of them, perhaps at Felipe's expense in relation to set-up and driving styles. Not surprising then that Felipe's results earlier in the season didn't reflect the effort he'd been making to support Fernando, it's also been too easy (if occasionally justified) to criticise Felipe for a lack of points in the WCC, as some of his races were severely compromised by poor quali and questionable strategy.

[Hornet]

I disagree with you to say that if it wasn't only Fernando, Massa should get the same results, with all respect to Felipe, he is an excellent racecar driver, but Fernando is in a league of his own, he can addapt his driving style to any situation, better then Felipe can, but there has to be something in it (the car) to be able to take it out, that is where Fernando is on top of his game.
Nowhere do i say the team sucks, on the contrary, i'm giving them the respect they (in my opinion) are not getting by most of the press.

Neither did i say that Red Bull is stronger just because of their DRS, i just said Ferrari is suffering in qualifying mainly because of an agressive DRS, that Red Bull has build an overall better car, is evident.
But it took them a while to get there, while Ferrari slowly but surely made progress, maintaining their reliabilty, and now in the end just Alonso and the F2012 are in a position to take the title, if you would have told me that at the beginning of the season, i would've settled for that, i just felt the need to point out that not everything is Alonso's credit, due to his incredible talent, there's a team behind him, and to many times i read that the car is so bad, but thanks to Fernando we are still alive, that point of vieuw i felt the need to correct.

Because we not only have the absolute best driver, we also have the best team, pitstops, strategy, etc., so my point was to also give some credit to the peolple who are to often beiing accused of building a bad car, because in the end, the F2012 might not be the best, but it's also not the tractor some think it is, it's a team effort, always has been, always will be.

I know in your first post you are not saying the team sucks, you are trying to give the team credit which is correct, the team deserve credit for where we are today. I agree its a team work, and I did mention many times too that thanks to Ferrari's attitude of continuously fighting, it got is where we are today. Of course attitude alone is not enough, so it does lead to Ferrari achieving many things that you mentioned, best reliability, consistent pit stop and so on.

I just don't think the car is good, and so far from Ferrari's own comment, they only served to cement that thought. We are doing well in most other areas, just not the car. This is where I think Alonso is putting the car higher than where it would end up if it was other drivers.

The car is where there is a serious need for improvement come next season.

[F2002]

I know in your first post you are not saying the team sucks, you are trying to give the team credit which is correct, the team deserve credit for where we are today. I agree its a team work, and I did mention many times too that thanks to Ferrari's attitude of continuously fighting, it got is where we are today. Of course attitude alone is not enough, so it does lead to Ferrari achieving many things that you mentioned, best reliability, consistent pit stop and so on.

I just don't think the car is good, and so far from Ferrari's own comment, they only served to cement that thought. We are doing well in most other areas, just not the car. This is where I think Alonso is putting the car higher than where it would end up if it was other drivers.

The car is where there is a serious need for improvement come next season.

So, we need to slightly tamper with the subject matter of the thread and say thanks to everyone at the team, except to those who designed the car

[Hornet]

So, we need to slightly tamper with the subject matter of the thread and say thanks to everyone at the team, except to those who designed the car

Well I'm not blaming anyone either
Sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. And according to Ferrari the wind tunnel is giving them problem so maybe that's why the car was problematic from the beginning.

Definitely need to fire the wind tunnel contractor who was supposed to upgrade it last year

Besides we're up against Adrian Newey

[Massimo]

Well I'm not blaming anyone either
Sometimes we get it, sometimes we don't. And according to Ferrari the wind tunnel is giving them problem so maybe that's why the car was problematic from the beginning.

Definitely need to fire the wind tunnel contractor who was supposed to upgrade it last year

Besides we're up against Adrian Newey

Ha,ha, this thread could be a deja vu for Vettel also, he's thinking "i'm driving my *** off all year, and everybody thinks it's only Newey!"
Keep thinking that son, let's get you all confused, Alonso will love that state of mind and he'll eat you alive

[Nova]

Bravo Ferrari.

[Tifoso84]

Every single position that any driver gets in Formula 1 is a TEAM effort. Nobody could achieve anything in F1 without a good team, absolutely nobody. Alonso is in this title winning position thanks to Ferrari's efforts as well as his great driving. Formula 1 is a TEAM sport, not a one man's show.

FORZA FERRARI!!!

[Rob]

Let me start by saying that this thought belongs to Rob Newman, as posted on JA on F1, i'll just rewrite it in my own words.

The fact is Fernando Alonso in the F2012 is just a handful of points behind Sebastian Vettel, who is, according to some, driving an RB8 from another dimension.
From the first test in Jerez, we had to live with the idea that the F2012 was a complete nightmare of a car, and our chances of winning a title were reduced to zero, but as the season progressed Alonso seemed to be capable of extracting the absolute maximum from the package, and even took the lead in driver's championship, while the crew at Maranello were making endless hours to improve the F2012, Alonso took every hundreds of a seccond he could from every update they supplied him with.

The speed in wich the car was develloped and improved was nothing less then impressive, while other teams struggled, McLaren for instance were very strong at the beginning of the season, but lost the developement battle some time later in the season, and while trying to get back their speed, lost their reliability, Lotus have a very fast car, but it seems to be working under specific circumstances only, mainly warm to hot temperatures.
Red Bull were also not on the right track and clearly trying to find out in wich direction to develope the car.

Ferrari on the other hand, did not have the fastest car, but it is a car that pereforms good to very good under all kind of circumstances, dry, wet, warm, cold, and is very reliable, just qualfying seems to be their achilles heel, mainly due to an to agressive DRS, put an weapon like that in the hands of an gladiator like Fernando Alonso and you are bound to get results.
Now at the end of the season the F2012 is the only car that is able to fight for the title, and on race pace take the war to Red Bull.

Every succes we get, every good result, basicaly everything is beiing put on Alonso's conto, because giving up is not an option for him, and the fact that he can take more from a car then there is actually in it, i think we are not doiing justice to the Ferrari engineers and technicians, who are under immens pressure, had to come (developement wise) from a lot further back then the other teams, and may not have been right all the time, but in the end they gave Alonso a car with wich he can fight for victories, and for the title untill the very last race.
But all the press writes about is that the car is rubbish, and it is only because of Alonso that we are were we are.

Surely this can't be only Alonso's work, but the impression is beiing made that it is, and this could create some unhappiness back at Maranello.
So i can speak only for myself, but i would like to say to everybody involved in building and developing this car "Grande ragazzi, grande!"

First of all, great post and well said.

I have tried to say the same things few times this year and past few races. The team have done fantastic job all year, form where we were at winter testing to now, amazing. If we win WDC great season and if we dont still be great season because of where we have come from.

[scuderiafan]

I have nothing else to say, you have covered that brilliantly.

[wisepie]

First of all, great post and well said.

I have tried to say the same things few times this year and past few races. The team have done fantastic job all year, form where we were at winter testing to now, amazing. If we win WDC great season and if we dont still be great season because of where we have come from.

Bravo Rob, couldn't agree more and if WDC eludes us again this year, no-one can say they didn't try eveything within their power, from every division of the team. The drivers are the public face of the team but even they couldn't have given more than they have. It's the way the cookie crumbles and one day RB will hit the buffers too.

[scuderiafan]

Bravo Rob, couldn't agree more and if WDC eludes us again this year, no-one can say they didn't try eveything within their power, from every division of the team. The drivers are the public face of the team but even they couldn't have given more than they have. It's the way the cookie crumbles and one day RB will hit the buffers too.

I already know who to blame if Ferrari doesn't won WDC this year. They should be sacked, and I say destroyed.

The wind tunnel.

[Massimo]

First of all, great post and well said.

I have tried to say the same things few times this year and past few races. The team have done fantastic job all year, form where we were at winter testing to now, amazing. If we win WDC great season and if we dont still be great season because of where we have come from.

Thanx! That was my point, it takes more then 1 link to make a chain, like before with Schumacher, Luca di Montezemolo brought Rory Byrne, Jean Todt, Ross Brawn and Michael Schumacher togehther, because that's what good CEO's do, hire the right people, everybody in that group did an outstanding job, and that brought the results.

[steelstallions]

Alonso states its the team that get the points which includes everyone as well as him. When he talks of Vettel, to play mind games he says Newhay gets Vettels points.
I very much doubt the workers at Maranello feel under appreciated, but they will get criticism if we start another season with a dog of a car.

[XXX132]

Heat, kitchen...

[albert]

Let me start by saying that this thought belongs to Rob Newman, as posted on JA on F1, i'll just rewrite it in my own words.

The fact is Fernando Alonso in the F2012 is just a handful of points behind Sebastian Vettel, who is, according to some, driving an RB8 from another dimension.
From the first test in Jerez, we had to live with the idea that the F2012 was a complete nightmare of a car, and our chances of winning a title were reduced to zero, but as the season progressed Alonso seemed to be capable of extracting the absolute maximum from the package, and even took the lead in driver's championship, while the crew at Maranello were making endless hours to improve the F2012, Alonso took every hundreds of a seccond he could from every update they supplied him with.

The speed in wich the car was develloped and improved was nothing less then impressive, while other teams struggled, McLaren for instance were very strong at the beginning of the season, but lost the developement battle some time later in the season, and while trying to get back their speed, lost their reliability, Lotus have a very fast car, but it seems to be working under specific circumstances only, mainly warm to hot temperatures.
Red Bull were also not on the right track and clearly trying to find out in wich direction to develope the car.

Ferrari on the other hand, did not have the fastest car, but it is a car that pereforms good to very good under all kind of circumstances, dry, wet, warm, cold, and is very reliable, just qualfying seems to be their achilles heel, mainly due to an to agressive DRS, put an weapon like that in the hands of an gladiator like Fernando Alonso and you are bound to get results.
Now at the end of the season the F2012 is the only car that is able to fight for the title, and on race pace take the war to Red Bull.

Every succes we get, every good result, basicaly everything is beiing put on Alonso's conto, because giving up is not an option for him, and the fact that he can take more from a car then there is actually in it, i think we are not doiing justice to the Ferrari engineers and technicians, who are under immens pressure, had to come (developement wise) from a lot further back then the other teams, and may not have been right all the time, but in the end they gave Alonso a car with wich he can fight for victories, and for the title untill the very last race.
But all the press writes about is that the car is rubbish, and it is only because of Alonso that we are were we are.

Surely this can't be only Alonso's work, but the impression is beiing made that it is, and this could create some unhappiness back at Maranello.
So i can speak only for myself, but i would like to say to everybody involved in building and developing this car "Grande ragazzi, grande!"

How can you give credit to the engineers who designed a car which is on average 7 tenths from pole this season, and the 4th fastest car during the season? Alonso gets the credit because he deserves it, the engineers dont get it because they dont deserve it. Its really quite simple, you have to earn credit. When they can design a car that can compete with Redbull or at least be consistent second fastest, then they will get credit. Alonso's success this years has been despite the car. Ferrari has been consistently mediocre all season despite the spin of many.

[Rob]

How can you give credit to the engineers who designed a car which is on average 7 tenths from pole this season, and the 4th fastest car during the season? Alonso gets the credit because he deserves it, the engineers dont get it because they dont deserve it. Its really quite simple, you have to earn credit. When they can design a car that can compete with Redbull or at least be consistent second fastest, then they will get credit. Alonso's success this years has been despite the car. Ferrari has been consistently mediocre all season despite the spin of many.

well, at start of season we were 1 second of pace, winter testing 1.5 seconds, so yeah think they deserve everything. They have done all they can all year to keep Fernando where he is.

Forza Ferrari.

[albert]

well, at start of season we were 1 second of pace, winter testing 1.5 seconds, so yeah think they deserve everything. They have done all they can all year to keep Fernando where he is.

Forza Ferrari.

And yesterday we were 1.2 seconds off the pace.

[sagi58]

As far as I'm concerned, the engineers and technicians can get into line behind anyone who has ever done a job without being appreciated!!

Mothers and fathers come readily to mind!!

[XXX132]

well, at start of season we were 1 second of pace, winter testing 1.5 seconds, so yeah think they deserve everything. They have done all they can all year to keep Fernando where he is.

Forza Ferrari.

Twisted logic. These same engineers designed the dog in the first place. If they'd done a better job on the drawing board, we"d be in a lot better position now. They're just fixing their own screw ups now.

[Tifoso84]

Regardless of what anyone says, I think the whole Ferrari team has done a great job this season and every single person working at Ferrari deserves nothing but respect and a big "THANK YOU" for all their efforts.
Of course it could've been better, yes, but remember we're in a position where all other 9 teams behind us only wish they could be.


FORZA FERRARI!!!

[Pekka]

Let me start by saying that this thought belongs to Rob Newman, as posted on JA on F1, i'll just rewrite it in my own words.

The fact is Fernando Alonso in the F2012 is just a handful of points behind Sebastian Vettel, who is, according to some, driving an RB8 from another dimension.
From the first test in Jerez, we had to live with the idea that the F2012 was a complete nightmare of a car, and our chances of winning a title were reduced to zero, but as the season progressed Alonso seemed to be capable of extracting the absolute maximum from the package, and even took the lead in driver's championship, while the crew at Maranello were making endless hours to improve the F2012, Alonso took every hundreds of a seccond he could from every update they supplied him with.

The speed in wich the car was develloped and improved was nothing less then impressive, while other teams struggled, McLaren for instance were very strong at the beginning of the season, but lost the developement battle some time later in the season, and while trying to get back their speed, lost their reliability, Lotus have a very fast car, but it seems to be working under specific circumstances only, mainly warm to hot temperatures.
Red Bull were also not on the right track and clearly trying to find out in wich direction to develope the car.

Ferrari on the other hand, did not have the fastest car, but it is a car that pereforms good to very good under all kind of circumstances, dry, wet, warm, cold, and is very reliable, just qualfying seems to be their achilles heel, mainly due to an to agressive DRS, put an weapon like that in the hands of an gladiator like Fernando Alonso and you are bound to get results.
Now at the end of the season the F2012 is the only car that is able to fight for the title, and on race pace take the war to Red Bull.

Every succes we get, every good result, basicaly everything is beiing put on Alonso's conto, because giving up is not an option for him, and the fact that he can take more from a car then there is actually in it, i think we are not doiing justice to the Ferrari engineers and technicians, who are under immens pressure, had to come (developement wise) from a lot further back then the other teams, and may not have been right all the time, but in the end they gave Alonso a car with wich he can fight for victories, and for the title untill the very last race.
But all the press writes about is that the car is rubbish, and it is only because of Alonso that we are were we are.

Surely this can't be only Alonso's work, but the impression is beiing made that it is, and this could create some unhappiness back at Maranello.
So i can speak only for myself, but i would like to say to everybody involved in building and developing this car "Grande ragazzi, grande!"

Great post!

..and yes they (the technicians, engineers) are being underrated. But it's part of the business and they know it. The drivers are always first, then teams! I'm not sure who is remembered more from this millenium's F1.The success of Michael Schumacher or Ferrari. I think and masses think that it's Michael who gelled the team together. As if he is to be remembered more than Ferrari and it's talented workers..

Thoughts?

[SoumyaBanerjee]

well, at start of season we were 1 second of pace, winter testing 1.5 seconds, so yeah think they deserve everything. They have done all they can all year to keep Fernando where he is.

Forza Ferrari.

As i've always said,it was the engineers' fault that the F2012 was that far off in the pace in winter testing in the first place. The F2012 wasnt an RBR or a McLaren product,was it??

[SoumyaBanerjee]

Twisted logic. These same engineers designed the dog in the first place. If they'd done a better job on the drawing board, we"d be in a lot better position now. They're just fixing their own screw ups now.

+1