German GP Race Thread [Archive] - Page 4 - TheScuderia.net

gvsnraju85

25th July 2010, 15:18

This is just the mid of the season, these kind of things happening at the end of the season is understandable but now at this moment....just when Massa was on the verge of making a comeback almost exactly a year after his accident..........and then making it so obvious to the media especially with the team radios now open to public..........and then the story by Alonso.....and the may Massa blunders it up.....the media will be talking about it all the way till the end of next sunday....really puts a big question mark to the credibility of this sport..........last 2 weeks we have been crying about the FIA being biased towards the British team and now we show biasim between our own drivers :ouch:ouch:ouch:furious:furious:furious:furious:fu rious

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:19

What the hell is this washed up Jordan driver babbling about contracts for.

Forget contracts, its about championship points, if massa was ahead of alonso by that gap, id screaming for them to let massa through.

Shahid

25th July 2010, 15:20

Christian horner will be happy to deflect the attention onto Ferrari if there is any doubt about their front wing

Effone

25th July 2010, 15:20

Katu

25th July 2010, 15:20

Just saw this on another forum and remembered this.

Damon Hill vs Ralf Schumacher, i think it was at Spa, Ralf much faster than Hill, Eddie Jordan stopped ralf from passing Damon Hill.

Eddie Jordan is the worst pundit of all time, end of story.

it was a sour face from Ralf there. EJ should rather shut up, before he makes himself look like bigger fool than he seems now

Brakefade

25th July 2010, 15:21

Did the BBC... or EJ rather make this much fuss when Hamilton passed Kovi in '08? EJ is such a hypocrit. He admited he gave team orders in the pass, and now he's appauled because the "rules" have changed, not because of some moral reason?

Anyways, team orders have been part of F1 for 52 of the last 60 years. And in fact, they still are. And like DC said any team who denies it are liars. Yes I feel bad for felipe, but Kimi did the same thing for him in China in 2008. And I'm sure if Fernando and Felipe swaped positions in the points, Ferrari would've asked Fernando to move over. Overall it was the right decision, and if this situations happens again in the future we should do it again and again, until the FIA changes the rule somehow.

ferrari4life

25th July 2010, 15:21

It's seven points (25 vs. 18), but I doubt Alonso will need exactly these 7 points, and I'm quite sure Massa's loss of motivation is going to cost the team more than that, in turn potentially costing the team the WCC... We'll see.

If you wanna go there then there are other drivers out there that can take his place.. he is not running around the track on his own steam. ferrari put the fast car underneath him... he is welcome to reflect on the first part of the season and figure out why is so far behind..

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 15:21

No he just knows what goes on in every team, if Ferrari could go back to 2008 and give Felipe 1 more point by moving Kimi, do you think Felipe would grab it with both hands?

You keep missing the point that its halfway through the season Greig. 1 well deserved win has been ruined. It better count come the end of the season since it's basically made Massa's role clear for the rest of the season and made us look like complete liars. Period.

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:22

Massa was doing really well today, I was so happy for him..

If it had been me in that car and the order came, I would have either ignored it or just parked the car.. once you move over once you'll forever be a doormat.. so sad for Felipe :-(

Were you so sad when he had to move for MS in 2006? broken record

vcs316

25th July 2010, 15:22

I understand what you are saying fully but come on...I want a WDC and WCC but they should be allowed to race...Both are great drivers and if Alonso is the fastest man (like many people say) on the grid then he should be able to get around him without a orchestrated pass.... Personally I wouldnt want to win or lose that way...

Yes, they should be allowed to race but not at the cost of a championship. Ferrari is in F1 to win championships. This season, Alonso is their best bet, he is clearly ahead of Massa in the rankings and should be given preference.

How hurt were we when Massa lost the WDC in 2008 by 1 point? Do we want that to come and bite us at the end of this season??

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:22

You keep missing the point that its halfway through the season Greig. 1 well deserved win has been ruined. It better count come the end of the season since it's basically made Massa's role clear for the rest of the season and made us look like complete liars. Period.

Does not make any difference, as we know every point will count at the end, would Massa take 1 more point in 2008 from a order? you bet he would.....

Hornet

25th July 2010, 15:23

Firstly, a huge congratz to Ferrari, Alonso and Massa for a job well done today.:ferrarifl

We finished 1-2, don't know about you guys but to me thats huge, and we secured that front row fair and square. Just last race we were not even a contender for the podium and now we won 1-2, no any DNF by our competitors, we just beat them plain and simple. I'm very happy for the team, we're truly back :rock

I do feel sorry for Massa, and I wish our return to form were under better circumstances. But to be honest, what Ferrari did is something any other team would have done under the same situation. Those people in the paddocks who hit out at Ferrari needs to buy a huge working mirror and look into it. Bunch of shameless hypocrites TBH, trying to act like they are a huge paragon of virtue or something.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:23

Hold a minute, this Ferrari press officer guy is terrible, get him out of there! is obvious now. All he needs to say is Ferrari dont do team orders that it.

ferrari4life

25th July 2010, 15:23

Massa was doing really well today, I was so happy for him..

If it had been me in that car and the order came, I would have either ignored it or just parked the car.. once you move over once you'll forever be a doormat.. so sad for Felipe :-(

i guess it shows then that you are not truly a Ferrari fan..so much for being a team player..go support webber. he seems to like to throw the team under the bus.

racingbradley

25th July 2010, 15:24

yes we got 43 points.
Why do I feel so very very flat !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Katu

25th July 2010, 15:24

i believe when Hamilton passed 2 years ago in Hockenheim Kovalainen, they showed Ron Dennis telling something on teamradio and after that Kovalainen slowed pretty quickly down

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:24

Hold a minute, this Ferrari guy is terrible, get him out of there! is obvious now.

No he is spot on, Ferrari never told Massa to move, there was no team order given :-)

kazi

25th July 2010, 15:24

Claims that it's flexing on track

:lou Not this again... All wings flex, all teams try to take as much advantage of it as they can. If it passes the tests it's all good.

gvsnraju85

25th July 2010, 15:24

can anyone post a link to the Red Bull almost-illegal front wing?

I have completely missed what it's about, heard the commentators say something that the front of the middle part is to low or whatever.

Please link :-)

It has been found that the Red Bull's front wings flex a bit towards the ground......making them closer to the ground as the car picks up speed.........this helps with the aerodynamics of the car....but flexing of the front wings are banned by FIA on safety grounds and these flexings create weak spots on the wings and could be dangerous in the event of an accident.........Red Bull say their cars are legal but only further invetigation would reveal if the flexing was within the allowable parameters or exeded it

Julie B

25th July 2010, 15:25

My head hurts :-s

Effone

25th July 2010, 15:25

Were you so sad when he had to move for MS in 2006? broken record

That was not mid-season. You seem to ignore subtle points like that. we have a lot of races to go yet.. if the same thing happened with 2-3 races to go it would clearly be the best thing to do but not now.. are you so blinded by your Ferrari passion?
Sure the team come first.. but not now, its angered a lot of people, totally de-motivated one of our drivers and for nothing.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:27

No he is spot on, Ferrari never told Massa to move, there was no team order given :-)

Yeah but what he is saying doesnt match up with what smedley said. Smedley said Alonso caught massa and that he said sorry cos he was sorry massa got caught and passed

This guy is saying Massa chose to let alonso pass, which is a bit contradictory.

More ammo for the FIA

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:27

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:28

Yeah but what he is saying doesnt match up with what smedley said. Smedley said Alonso caught massa and that he said sorry cos he was sorry massa got caught and passed

This guy is saying Massa chose to let alonso pass, which is a bit contradictory.

More ammo for the FIA

Everyone knows it was a team order, coded, if the FIA go after us then why not McLaren when they told Jenson to stop racing Lewis in Turkey.

Agron

25th July 2010, 15:28

vcs316

25th July 2010, 15:28

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 15:29

Does not make any difference, as we know every point will count at the end, would Massa take 1 more point in 2008 from a order? you bet he would.....

half way through the season.

I have no problem with how you see it Greig, just dont care for comments that suggest that Ferrari supporters should think its clean, good, or worthy. That's all!

Suzie

25th July 2010, 15:29

Well Fernando had BETTER win the WDC now after this utter MESS.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to buy a bottle of vodka and then weep in the corner. Toodle-oo.

ferrari4life

25th July 2010, 15:29

That was not mid-season. You seem to ignore subtle points like that. we have a lot of races to go yet.. if the same thing happened with 2-3 races to go it would clearly be the best thing to do but not now.. are you so blinded by your Ferrari passion?
Sure the team come first.. but not now, its angered a lot of people, totally de-motivated one of our drivers and for nothing.

Give it up man its over and done with..dont see how it can demotivate a driver that is in Ferrari because he started out doing just that for MS. He can pick up his socks or he will find himself in the same position next year..We need to points if we want to go after the WDC as well.. so far Felipe hasnt really been setting the track ablaze..

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:30

Everyone knows it was a team order, coded, if the FIA go after us then why not McLaren when they told Jenson to stop racing Lewis in Turkey.

Since when have he FIA ever been consistent about anything????

Given the crap Ferrari have been through, we should not have made it that obvious, massa should have been told to save fuel and done.

FIA make it up as they go along, your using logic, never use logic with the FIA, its illegal to pass saftey cars unless your lewis hamilton.

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:30

half way through the season.

I have no problem with how you see it Greig, just dont care for comments that suggest that Ferrari supporters should think its clean, good, or worthy. That's all!

You can think what you like, I see no comments saying how Ferrari fans should see it?

Aldai

25th July 2010, 15:30

Go! Alonso Go!

Brakefade

25th July 2010, 15:30

Yes, they should be allowed to race but not at the cost of a championship. Ferrari is in F1 to win championships. This season, Alonso is their best bet, he is clearly ahead of Massa in the rankings and should be given preference.

How hurt were we when Massa lost the WDC in 2008 by 1 point? Do we want that to come and bite us at the end of this season??

Fernando is clearly the quicker driver too. Anybody who denies that is blind. At the end of the day Felipe and Fernando are employees, and you have to do what your boss tells you. Especially when they pay a very good amount of money, and give very exclusive and desirable cars for free. Which Felipe will probably get after his sacrifice. I wouldn't be surprised if this came from Luca himself.

mad_ani

25th July 2010, 15:31

Well done Massa and Alonso...brilliant 1st and second halves of the race and a 1-2 for the team...

Massa was quicker on the soft compound and slightly slower than Alonso on the harder compound...but as Rob Smedley said..Massa was MAGNANIMOUS..We'll have to wait to the end of the season to see how well this race worked for us...nonetheless...and important day in the championship..

Effone

25th July 2010, 15:32

France was mid season indeed :-) did you feel so sorry for him then?

Who says its de-motivated one of our drivers? and how do you know it was for nothing, again making things up.

Making things up?? wth...
I give up, I've never met anyone as blinkered as you.

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:32

Which Felipe will probably get after his sacrifice. I wouldn't be surprised if this came from Luca himself.

Stefano said right after the race that Luca Di had discussed it before the race :-)

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 15:32

This is worse than Austria 02 actually. We are so DUMB!

We get a 1-2 and it's bloody war. stupid way to handle it!!!!

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:32

Making things up?? wth...
I give up, I've never met anyone as blinkered as you.

You say Massa is de-motivated and the points will count for nothing, you don't know either, so you clearly made them up :-)

gabobito

25th July 2010, 15:32

Let's face it, every team uses team orders. The only thing Ferrari did wrong today is how obvious the reversal of position was done.

Rookie

25th July 2010, 15:33

Maybe Rob said no? do you know? Stefano done what Luca Di asked.....

Or maybe he could've just forced Rob to it because he is the team manager and he is his boss... After what happened awhile ago I'm sure their used to making people what they have to do for the team... It going to be quite a mess after this.

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:33

Felipe says it was his decision to move and accepts he was not a title challenger :-)

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:34

Or maybe he could've just forced Rob to it because he is the team manager and he is his boss... After what happened awhile ago I'm sure their used to making people what they have to do for the team... It going to be quite a mess after this.

Or maybe he never asked Rob and took the podium as he deserved for this great 1-2 for Ferrari :-)

Tommy_F

25th July 2010, 15:34

NobleF1

Ferrari has been summoned to see the stewards following the German GP team orders controversy. More on autosport.com as it happens

carp

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:34

Ferrari summoned to FIA :-(

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:34

Fernando is clearly the quicker driver too. Anybody who denies that is blind.

The end.

This is about Ferrari and the Championship, we must do whatever it takes.

This weekend Fernando was clearly the quicker driver, Ferrari are doing whatever it takes and thats whats been missing from this team, too much respect for others and all that rubbish.

Mclaren would have done the same thing, infact they will steal other teams documents to win races so we have to do what it takes as well.

Felipe Massa is not in the same league as hamilton alonso and vettel.

Hornet

25th July 2010, 15:35

That was not mid-season. You seem to ignore subtle points like that. we have a lot of races to go yet.. if the same thing happened with 2-3 races to go it would clearly be the best thing to do but not now.. are you so blinded by your Ferrari passion?
Sure the team come first.. but not now, its angered a lot of people, totally de-motivated one of our drivers and for nothing.
Every race counts when it comes to taking points away from your competitor's lead.
Lets say if Massa won and later on we lost the title by 1 points, we're going to look back at this race and wonder if only we use that opportunity to help push our title contender, how would it turn out?

I'm sure Massa is mature enough to handle this situation. A guy like him who returned strong from a horrifying accident, if he can handle that, he can handle anything.;-)
I don't see any evidence why Massa is demoralize and cannot perform well anymore.

criderman

25th July 2010, 15:35

Yes, they should be allowed to race but not at the cost of a championship. Ferrari is in F1 to win championships. This season, Alonso is their best bet, he is clearly ahead of Massa in the rankings and should be given preference.

How hurt were we when Massa lost the WDC in 2008 by 1 point? Do we want that to come and bite us at the end of this season??

Not at the cost of the championship? Is F1 about racing? If that's the case then let them race for the win...This isn't a cherry picking contest..Its racing...And racing should take precedent to team orders! No one can see the future... All the team can do is the best that they can and hope that they can be in the running for the WDC or WCC when the points are tallied...Trust me I remember in 08 when Felipe lost by 1 point..I also remember the fuel hose incident...There are many many things that transpire during a season that could make a season swing in either direction...I just want it to be fair and competitive..

Today was tremendous for the TEAM..It just taints it a bit IMO..

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:35

Ferrari summoned to FIA :-(

Told ya, Smedley saying sorry on the radio was the clincher, I cannot believe he has done that.

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:36

Told ya, Smedley saying sorry on the radio was the clincher, I cannot believe he has done that.

No chance will they get us on it, we will just leave :-D

Effone

25th July 2010, 15:36

Told ya, Smedley saying sorry on the radio was the clincher, I cannot believe he has done that.

You cant blame him for being angry his driver was told to move over. I saw this coming, its not Rob's fault.

bahrain

25th July 2010, 15:37

isn’t this better than a tangle between both drivers, remember last race. loosing a 1-2 now that would have been a real mess.

Hornet

25th July 2010, 15:38

NobleF1

Ferrari has been summoned to see the stewards following the German GP team orders controversy. More on autosport.com as it happens

carp
Bloody FIA on a witch-hunt

Sianellen

25th July 2010, 15:39

NobleF1

Ferrari has been summoned to see the stewards following the German GP team orders controversy. More on autosport.com as it happens

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:40

You cant blame him for being angry his driver was told to move over. I saw this coming, its not Rob's fault.

LOL Martin Brundle just EXPOSED EDDIE JORDAN ABOUT SPA WHEN EDDIE DID THE SAME THING! :lol

Anyways, Rob Smedley may have cost Ferrari the championship, you be professional, this is why Mclaren are kicking our asses, they do it professionally, then handle the talk behind closed doors.

Smedley was an idiot for making it that obvious, and i love rob to bits, he is fantastic, but he messed up big time.

Eddie Jordan backtracking... hilarious.

maho

25th July 2010, 15:40

Eddie Jordan said earlier that this incident with Ferrari is against the principle of racing and allowing viewers to enjoy a good wheel to wheel racing. Whether it was allowed or not, he still held Ralph up when he was faster than Hill and why is that any different from that perspective.
Hypocrite.

mad_ani

25th July 2010, 15:40

Felipe Massa said he felt he deserved to win the German Grand Prix, having let team-mate Fernando Alonso take the lead after having led from the start.

Massa finished in second position after giving up the lead when Ferrari told him on the radio that Alonso was quicker than him.

"Fernando is faster than you. Can you confirm you understood that message?" Massa's race engineer Rob Smedley told the Brazilian on the radio.

Moments later, Massa slowed down and let Alonso through, the Spaniard having said earlier on the radio that "This is ridiculous" as he followed Massa closely but was unable to pass.

A less-than-happy-looking Massa said he felt he deserved victory.

Massa feels he deserved victory

"Well, I think so," said Massa when asked if he felt he deserved the win. "The start was just fantastic and also the pace on the soft tyres was really great and then I was struggling a little bit on the hard tyres but anyway a very good race for us."

When asked about Smedley's radio comment, Massa added: "Well, I don't think I need to say anything about that."

He added: "The only thing I feel is that we work for the team and doing a great job for the team and that is the most important thing."

Massa is currently 72 points behind championship leader Lewis Hamilton, with Alonso now 34 behind the Briton.

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 15:40

So will Massa be forced to move aside for Alonso from now on, everytime he's ahead so that Alonso can maximise his point count? Suppose it's Massa, Rosberg, Alonso. Will Ferrari make him move behind Alonso so that Alonso get's the extra points from coming 2nd instead of 3rd?

Red Rocket

25th July 2010, 15:40

Boy what a bittersweet victory. Firstly, I feel broken for Massa he drove a inspiring race and deserved the victory on pure merit. As for the cars they really did crush Red Bull and the rest, they definitely were in their own league.

As for the decision, emotionally I did not like it, but we need to view it in a pragmatic way, the greatest chance of bringing something home this year rests on Alonso. It is a pure numbers game now. I would venture to say if the Alonso and Massa were separated by a mere few points, the call would not have been made but this late in the season money must be placed on who's favourite.

What I hope now is that this call doesn't effect the Ferrari team, the last thing we need at present is team turbulence.

Ste

25th July 2010, 15:40

Why has Alonso not won a race by himself this season? he needed Vettel to win Bahrain for him and Felipe to give him a win today. If he is such a great driver why is he not winning the races by himself. Why has he made so many mistakes this season? That was Felipe's race and Ferrari stole it from him. We lost the integrity we had today, I hope you think it is worth it in the end.

Let's flip the tables for a moment. Massa needed Kimi to move over in China 2008 so he had a shot at the World Championship. Could he not have won it by himself?

Not being petty though, let me continue.

Why has Alonso not won a race by himself this season? A number of reasons. Clutch failure in Malaysia cost him a potential victory, but definitely a better result. He was faster than Felipe even with no clutch.

Contact in T1 in Melbourne cost him either P2 or a win, still drove through the field there.

Safety Car in Valencia cost him a shot at victory.

Montreal he lost the win because of shocking backmarkers.

Essentially, he could have won 2 or 3 more races, without problems that have nothing to do with him. He made the error at the start in China and crashed in Monaco, could have probably won in Monaco.

Why has he made so many mistakes this season? Let's not get into mistakes Massa has made shall we. Really don't know why you feel the need to bash Alonso because of the result. If you want to bash someone, then bash the team - it was their decision, not Alonso's.

I wonder if Felipe feels that Kimi stole his win in Brazil 2007?

I don't really think we lost any integrity. If everyone on TV had have said Ferrari were right to do it then nobody would be complaining at all.

If Alonso wins the WDC by a couple of points, then it will be worth it, no? Nobody will be moaning then.

romitfernandes

25th July 2010, 15:41

what matters in the end is it is a FERRARI 1-2 .Rest is history...Moreover it quite logical for massa to have allegedly moved over for alsonso..because he has the brighest chance of winning among the two..How can u guys forget china 2008!!!!???? when Raikkonen moved over for massa and gave him a position as a result of which massa came 3 or 2nd (don't remember properly).Even Raikkonen held himself back against overtaking alonso for 2nd place just for the sake of massa finishing 5 places ahead of hamiltonin brazil 2008.However it did not happen though.But we must realize that team comes first before self. this is what is called team work for achieving the ultmate goal of winning the WDC and WCC..

Effone

25th July 2010, 15:41

ferrari4life

25th July 2010, 15:41

If the FIA do anything about this..they can kiss the season good bye..There will be a ton of Ferrari fans demanding blood. If the FIA an honetly stand up and say that they have not overlooked similar situation from other teams then they are welcome to throw the first stone..

Man Ferrari made a big old blunder of this..

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:42

Im VERY WORRIED, FIA will do ANYTHING to finish Ferrari.

Lets get real here, there is one rule for McLaren and another for Ferrari, its been obvious for the last 2/3 races.

Shahid

25th July 2010, 15:42

I dont get this bs that they if they are doing team orders they should do it "cleverly" - how the hell that make it any better. If people are going to get on their high horse about team the ethics of team orders then it shouldn't matter how they are carried out. Complete joke.

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:43

Rookie

25th July 2010, 15:43

Or maybe he never asked Rob and took the podium as he deserved for this great 1-2 for Ferrari :-)

Yeah he does deserve the praise for a good result even though he makes the same excuses everytime the team makes a big muck up of the strategy. Let him hog all the attention and sort out the mess they've made.

Grinsomx

25th July 2010, 15:43

Sianellen

25th July 2010, 15:43

Let's flip the tables for a moment. Massa needed Kimi to move over in China 2008 so he had a shot at the World Championship. Could he not have won it by himself?

Not being petty though, let me continue.

Why has Alonso not won a race by himself this season? A number of reasons. Clutch failure in Malaysia cost him a potential victory, but definitely a better result. He was faster than Felipe even with no clutch.

Contact in T1 in Melbourne cost him either P2 or a win, still drove through the field there.

Safety Car in Valencia cost him a shot at victory.

Montreal he lost the win because of shocking backmarkers.

Essentially, he could have won 2 or 3 more races, without problems that have nothing to do with him. He made the error at the start in China and crashed in Monaco, could have probably won in Monaco.

Why has he made so many mistakes this season? Let's not get into mistakes Massa has made shall we. Really don't know why you feel the need to bash Alonso because of the result. If you want to bash someone, then bash the team - it was their decision, not Alonso's.

I wonder if Felipe feels that Kimi stole his win in Brazil 2007?

I don't really think we lost any integrity. If everyone on TV had have said Ferrari were right to do it then nobody would be complaining at all.

If Alonso wins the WDC by a couple of points, then it will be worth it, no? Nobody will be moaning then.

I don't like cheating, whoever benifits. Alonso has made mistakes and so has Felipe. We are where we are in the championship because thats where we deserve to be.

Shahid

25th July 2010, 15:44

Felipe says he led Fernando through - so as far as the FIA are concerned there were no team orders - case closed.

aroutis

25th July 2010, 15:44

First and foremost, FORZA FERRARI, I was hoping for an #1,#3, but they did an #1/#2, so hey, even better!

Other than that and on the topic that monopolizes the pages, I am sorry but I feel that the TEAM did the one right thing.

As many stated, this IS a TEAM sport and people should work for the team and this is what happened today. Team orders are as old as F1,
as old as hypocricy really...

romitfernandes

25th July 2010, 15:44

I doubt the FIA will do something as silly as penalizing Ferrari.If they dare do that they will have to face a battery of lawyers from Ferrari. And will have to prove it court of law.How are they going to prove this.???It's simple they cannot.

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:44

Yeah he does deserve some some praise even though he makes the same excuses everytime the team makes a big muck up of the strategy. Let him hog all the attention and sort out the mess they've made.

Stefano is our strategy guy as well? woah he must be run ragged every race :-)

ferrari1.8t

25th July 2010, 15:44

It is easy to forget, but many people need to realize that both Fernando and Felipe are race car drivers, racing is their job. Sometimes in racing you are lucky to have a car that allows both you and your team mate to fight for 1st place. Today, we had that car and if Felipe didn’t “move over” he would have held up Fernando and eventually allowed Sebastian and possibly the macca’s to catch up. Ferrari is in the business of winning; races and titles. To do so, we need points!

Felipe is a good man whose heart beats on Ferrari’s blood. He did what was right and good for the team. That is why Ferrari resigned his contract. I am proud of both drivers. Congratulations to Fernando, Felipe and Ferrari...we are finally back in our rightful place on the podium!

:thumb FORZA FERRARI

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 15:45

Felipe says he led Fernando through - so as far as the FIA are concerned there were no team orders - case closed.

Of course he let him through. The difference is, was it because he wanted to, or because the team told him to.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:45

Man Ferrari made a big old blunder of this..

Huge Blunder.

Embarassment.

I'm telling you, Luca D is the man, without him, we are finished, you know we were probably gonna keep Kimi 'overrated' Raikonnen until Luca put his foot down and made sure Alonso got on board.

Smedley saying one thing, Press bloke saying another thing, Domenicalli saying another thing, rob saying sorry on the radio.

Ross Brawn wouldnt allow such slackness imo.

Raz

25th July 2010, 15:45

They should have had "Heikki Mixture 5, Mixture 5!" or something

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:45

Of course he let him through. The difference is, was it because he wanted to, or because the team told him to.

Did Jenson want to let Lewis win in Turkey? or was he told.....

Raz

25th July 2010, 15:47

Schumi's take on this was rather 'interesting'

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 15:47

Did Jenson want to let Lewis win in Turkey? or was he told.....

I think that had Jenson made that pass stick then McLaren would have told them to hold station in either case. "Hold Station" is also different to "move over and let him pass".

romitfernandes

25th July 2010, 15:47

Conserve fuel jenson.,....alias for team order in mclaren

Ste

25th July 2010, 15:48

I don't like cheating, whoever benifits. Alonso has made mistakes and so has Felipe. We are where we are in the championship because thats where we deserve to be.

It's not cheating. It's team orders. Massa could quite easily have not done it if he wasn't happy about it.

Of course, he wouldn't disobey the team though.

maho

25th July 2010, 15:49

Stewards have summoned the Ferrari bosses.

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 15:49

Conserve fuel jenson.,....alias for team order in mclaren

It was Hamilton who was told to converse fuel today, not Button.

Ferrarichamp

25th July 2010, 15:49

It was funny to hear Horner criticize Ferrari after the race. Fact is Vettel was too slow to pass either Alonso or Massa, so 3rd is the best result they could hope for. Ferrari beat RBR today, get over it.

pesquisa_2004

25th July 2010, 15:49

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:49

I think that had Jenson made that pass stick then McLaren would have told them to hold station in either case. "Hold Station" is also different to "move over and let him pass".

Is it a team order?

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:50

They should have had "Heikki Mixture 5, Mixture 5!" or something

LMAO.

'Honest' Ron Dennis, he was a legend wasnt he, he always let driver race, he never sabotaged other drivers tyre pressures or did any team orders.

Guys, here's how it works.

If British drivers break the rules, its okay, the other didnt take advantage and are whining.

When non british drivers do it, it ruins the spectacle.

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 15:51

Is it a team order?

Yes, but not one that deliberately manipulates the order in the race, which is what the FIA frowns upon.

criderman

25th July 2010, 15:51

Can both the drivers win the WDC? No.

Which driver has the best chance to bring the No. 1 back to Maranello? Alonso.

Massa understands why he was asked to do what he was asked to do. Maybe you should too...

Wow did you talk to Felipe after the race? What did he tell you? You obviously think that you know whats going through his mind about the situation...I have always supported the TEAM but when something stinks all to hell then im gonna say something about it..excuse me for having sportsmanship and thinking that things should be fair Mr. Condescending...I just think that the best car and the best driver should win and not be handed anything!!! Bring a title back to Maranello...i'd love for that to happen..but not this way...

Greig

25th July 2010, 15:51

Yes, but not one that deliberately manipulates the order in the race, which is what the FIA frowns upon.

So its a team order, that is banned :-)

theodorus8864

25th July 2010, 15:51

For those Massa fans and Alonso fans, please hold all your frustration. There is ABSOLUTELY UNNECESSARY to fill in this thread with all destructive comments.

Kudos to both our drivers did an extremely brilliant job to be so dominant in this circuit. But for the whole incident let's have a flashback:
1. During start Alonso was 'squeezed' by Vettel. Massa found a tiny space to overtake and he managed to grab first position. Alonso found his way into second followed by Vettel.
2. Alonso pitted in for hard tyres. That gave Massa plenty time to widen the gap before himself doing the pitstop.
3. Massa came in, having hard tyres and out still maintaining position. We still have 1-2 Ferrari.
4. As race moved on, Alonso started finding paces and Massa didn't. (Massa admitted before that he had a very tough time getting along with hard tyres, especially to make up to temperature)
5. Rob Smedley said to give Massa enough time to heat up to tyres. And Massa had it done.
6. Alonso was getting more and more comfortable with hard tyres. Massa is running out of time to outpace Alonso. The whole team cannot risk slowing down both cars because Vettel was catching up.
7. Rob Smedley had his word on Massa: His pace wasn't good enough. He needs to let Alonso up front to set more faster laps.

It is obvious that we are playing it as A WHOLE TEAM. Rob Smedley clearly wasn't happy, but Stefano wouldn't feel even better than him by making those decisions. We need to know that WE HAVE LOST SO MANY POINTS AND WE NEED TO MAKE UP POINTS AS MUCH AS WE CAN AND PUT ASIDE PERSONAL GRUDGES. It's a pain in the ass for Massa, but we saw Alonso didn't feel as excited as he used to be because he knew this was a tough action to take.

Believe me... if we didn't make those moves just now, we might lose out both cars to Red Bull. As the Ferrari fans stay united is what we need to do NOW or else Christian Horner and Martin Whitmarsh will start taking advantages over us.

DIEK

25th July 2010, 15:52

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM&feature=player_embedded

:roll

gabobito

25th July 2010, 15:53

They could have just said, "Felipe, we need you to save fuel" or "Felipe, watch out for your tires" not "Alonso is faster than you, do you confirm that message?" then came the "sorry and try to keep up with him...good lad" after the pass. :-??

Katu

25th July 2010, 15:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epI6u6uA8hM&feature=player_embedded

:roll

just seconds before that they showed RD saying something in teamradio

KurtC

25th July 2010, 15:55

Forza Ferrari!!! yes i knew it we are back, all the bad luck is behind now, c'mon is time to take the lead and win this was a clear win cars were superior to the dominant red bull and it was the whole car not an F-Duct, not because the lead were handed cause troubles with the RB, anyway i'm glad with this 1-2.

Now everybody is whinig about the "team orders" specially those (Mcliaren fans), anybody who says this is ridicouls they should be banned, that if FA was faster he should have overtook massa, all those who said that clearly don't know about this .... Fernando was faster he has better grip, but the cars were close , in this track and with the aerodynamic of the cars this season overtaking a car that is almost as fast as you (not at the start) is hard... it would have consumed both cars and let Vettel close the gap with the ferraris, anyway looking forward for the Hungaroring !!!

slither

25th July 2010, 15:56

7 points at the end of season would mean lots of things, as we won 2007 title with 1 point and lost 2008 with 1 point.
But the real thing is I really wonder if Fernando would have overtake Felipe even if he did not let him pass. Fernando was faster than Felipe, but can't make sure it was enough for an overtake. Any ideas?

Besides I scared to death at the beginning of the race when Fernando tried to overtake Felipe, a crash could happen like happened to RBRs in Istanbul.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 15:56

Wow did you talk to Felipe after the race? What did he tell you? You obviously think that you know whats going through his mind about the situation...I have always supported the TEAM but when something stinks all to hell then im gonna say something about it..excuse me for having sportsmanship and thinking that things should be fair Mr. Condescending...I just think that the best car and the best driver should win and not be handed anything!!! Bring a title back to Maranello...i'd love for that to happen..but not this way...

I hear ya, but heres the reality

Alonso is the better driver.

Alonso was faster this weekend.

Alonso only dropped places cos Vettel tried to drive him into the wall.

Alonso is Ferrari's ONLY chance of beating Hamilton and Vettel in this era of F1, which is why he was signed.

Alonso is the only Ferrari driver who can win this world championship.

I want Ferrari to win this world championship, so right now I support Alonso.

But I understand your point.

When Vettel started catching Massa, thats it, they had to make that choice, they couldnt expose alonso to vettel.

aroutis

25th July 2010, 16:00

We're summoned

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85539

Ste

25th July 2010, 16:00

How does it make any difference how a team makes an order?

Whether they say "save fuel, save fuel" or "let him past", it makes no odds.

DIEK

25th July 2010, 16:00

http://images.gazzetta.it/Hermes%20Foto/2010/07/25/0L64A3XA--300x145.jpg

The stewards don't call Vettel to talk about this?

:roll

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:01

British Press are desperate for Ferrari to get penalised.

And here comes......Horner, the hypocrisy is sickening.

Horner is implying he wouldnt have done the same thing........when a few week ago, he was nicking one drivers front wing to give it to the other driver.

LMAO and brundle exposing Horner for doing similar stuff.

Paulpg87

25th July 2010, 16:01

theodorus8864

25th July 2010, 16:03

It was way too stupid for RS to say it DIRECTLY while knowing all radios are opened public. It's so hard for the whole team to gain grounds on races, and now we have to lose everything on internal affair. C'mon, be wise!!!

slither

25th July 2010, 16:04

How does it make any difference how a team makes an order?

Whether they say "save fuel, save fuel" or "let him past", it makes no odds.

+1

Christian Horner : No doubt of Ferrari team orders

Remember the wing thing on the last GP Chris, you are the last person to talk about this. And why were you so depressed after Turkish GP crash, your drivers were just racing to crash other.

By the way, isn't it a team order when Mcs kept Button behind Hamilton at Turkish GP?

Why does it so matter when it comes to Ferrari?

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:05

Massa was a stupid, if you "agree" with the team order than don't slow down in that stupid way. He created a very bad situation for the team's image and maybe also for the championship, if we get DQ it's over ( even i think it's already over).

The whole thing was stupid. It wouldnt surprise me if the FIA put their foot down. Where is Di Montzemelo? He needs to start making threats, anymore penalties and ferrari dont turn up to GP's for the rest of the season, then F1 can lose money cos Mclaren dont sell jack outside of britain.

FFFerrari

25th July 2010, 16:05

Hermann

25th July 2010, 16:07

Thats interesting. Was Ferrari also summoned back in 2007 when Massa had to let Kmi pass to make him win the title? No? Why not? It was bloody obvious.

Effone

25th July 2010, 16:08

Fangiofan

25th July 2010, 16:09

Ferrari has adopted the best decision: maximun points for WCC and maximun points for the driver who can win the WDC. Could not take the risk of Vettel overtaking Alonso and then Massa. And Massa was too harsh defending his position.

BigRedOne

25th July 2010, 16:09

If D. Sullivan et al. screws this pooch, I will be royally p*ssed!

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:11

Our drivers and Rob in with the stewards now

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:12

Rob made a mistake on the radio. Massa made a mistake by choosing the place and the way to let Alonso pass and later in the press conference. Fernando made a mistake by not being able to pass Massa cleanly. Lets hope this doesn't cost us the lovely 1-2, but I'm very afraid it will since FIA doesn't like publicity like this.

Massa was so blatant, I was SCREAMING at the tv for ferrari to make the switch, mrs tech said 'how will they do it', i said 'massa will lose 0.5 of a second' as in, massa would lose a tiny a bit of time to make it look like he made a mistake or was struggling and then let alonso slipstream him. But massa virtually parked the bloody thing, was a joke.

To be honest, massa should have been told way before the race, if you get infront of alonso and he passes you, dont fight it.

Alonso nearly pulled it off fair and square, massa should not have fought back, then we wouldn't have had to fix the race, its a sad thing to say, but its true, there was every chance Massa could jump alonso at the start, he should have been told not to fight if alonso got close.

BigRedOne

25th July 2010, 16:12

Maybe Rob didnt make a mistake, maybe rob was so angry at having to tell HIS driver to let alonso through because alonso couldnt pass, so rob thought he'd make it look very obvious what was going on? I dunno.. just an idea. I'd be mad too if I were Rob.

If what you say about Smedley is true, he should be reprimanded. I doubt that's the case, though.:Hmm

BigRedOne

25th July 2010, 16:14

Our drivers and Rob in with the stewards now
Great! :furious

F2007

25th July 2010, 16:16

The decision was right. The way they did it deserves a penalty.
I dont think FIA gives Ferrari a penalty, because Todt runs the show. So lets just hope Fernando takes the title at the end or else this was only a death punch for Massa´s career. They surely dont value Brasilians at Ferrari these days.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:16

Mate, if Rob shut his mouth, we probably wouldnt be in with the FIA now, he said sorry to massa which was just unreal when everyone can get the radio transmission.

I believe he also said something like 'now now dont worry about it' etc.

Someone needs to speak with him, cos that was a disgrace.

theodorus8864

25th July 2010, 16:16

Maybe Rob didnt make a mistake, maybe rob was so angry at having to tell HIS driver to let alonso through because alonso couldnt pass, so rob thought he'd make it look very obvious what was going on? I dunno.. just an idea. I'd be mad too if I were Rob.

Whatever, but for such an honourable Rob Smedley he's definitely not being paid to play around with emotion during radio conversation. Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting remark on RS to be a robot. His paycheck definitely is the proof on why he's being put on the paddock as it shows how much the Ferrari trusts him to deliver a perfect weekend.

maho

25th July 2010, 16:19

If Ferrari get penalised and we lose the win, then Massa and Rob should be ashamed of himself. Yes it was an order, I dont deny that but it is a team sport and whoever has the bigger chance of challenging for the WDC, i.e. Alonso, then Massa should act as the support driver instead of making it clearly look like an order. Rob and Massa did a bad job today.

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:20

Alonso smiling after FIA meeting :-D

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:20

Alonso came out from the FIA with a big simile on his face high fiving.

Effone

25th July 2010, 16:20

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:21

Nothing will happen. dont worry

But it wouldn't be Rob and Massa's fault.. it would be the ones giving them the order in the first place..

Go speak to Luca Di :-)

maho

25th July 2010, 16:21

I bet Massa wants to just scream!

Julie B

25th July 2010, 16:22

You can't blame the engineer and driver, these decisions come from the top

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:24

I bet Massa wants to just scream!

Massa was SUPERB today.

Full credit to him, he is back no two ways about it.

But Ferrari have got to think about the bigger picture. If we are going to beat Hamilton and Vettel in this era of F1, we are going to do it with Alonso, I love massa to bits, i wanted him to stay over raikonnen 100% but he isnt gonna beat Hamilton and Vettel in this era.

Effone

25th July 2010, 16:24

I'm just sickened by the fact its a year since we almost lost Massa and this is how Ferrari repay him.. :(

ferrari4life

25th July 2010, 16:25

I'm just sickened by the fact its a year since we almost lost Massa and this is how Ferrari repay him.. :(

I am really sickened by the fact that you call yourself a Ferrari fan

maho

25th July 2010, 16:25

You can't blame the engineer and driver, these decisions come from the top

Of course it comes from the top but they're both professionals and I cannot believe that they wouldn't have thought of a scenario which Massa may have to allow Alonso to pass. Its not nice, but its the nature of the sport. Every team gives orders but they dont let emotions get the better of them.

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:27

I'm just sickened by the fact its a year since we almost lost Massa and this is how Ferrari repay him.. :(

We repaid him with a new deal despite poor performances :-)

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:27

We repaid him with a new deal despite poor performances :-)

the end.

Effone

25th July 2010, 16:28

I am really sickened by the fact that you call yourself a Ferrari fan

Well if you're going to start with the personal insults I might as well leave, there is no call for that.

racingbradley

25th July 2010, 16:28

It was just wrong that Rob was placed in that position. The relationship between driver & engineer should never be compromised-----------Stefano should do his own work !!!!!

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 16:29

An enquiry is good. I don't really care if Ferrari gets penalised or not. If they don't then it will be a Green Light for RBR and McLaren to focus on one driver by changing the order in the race, making Alonso's job a bit harder as both RBR and McLaren drivers have been taking points away from each other so far.

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:29

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:30

Well if you're going to start with the personal insults I might as well leave, there is no call for that.

Wooohooooo :-) :wave

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:30

Dominecalli is doing us proud today, he showed some real leadership, lie lie lie, whatever it takes we must do, just like the good old days.

Dont ever think Horner or Whitmarsh would give it a second thought, they would do it even quicker.

Ste

25th July 2010, 16:32

I do and don't agree with how we're handling this. Trying to cover it up is very bad and will make the situation worse. But, I do agree with the fact that the decision was up to Felipe. He was told the situation and he acted on it. As Rob said - he was very magnanimous. There was no specific order for him to move over.

ferrari4life

25th July 2010, 16:32

Well if you're going to start with the personal insults I might as well leave, there is no call for that.

You are sitting here insulting my team and there is not even a word of congratulations about Ferrari pulling off a stunning 1-2. Understand what happen was not ideal but thats racing..Ferrari cannot please everyone every single race.. you support a team and I think its spectacular that we came from where we were to the 1-2

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 16:32

LOL they already do :-)

From what I have seen Jenson has only been told hold his place behind Hamilton. Now suppose they're running Jenson, Rosberg, Hamilton. McLaren would be free to order Jenson to move behind Hamilton so that Hamilton gains more points from coming second than third. Would have loved to see Vettel in between Massa and Alonso to see what Ferrari would have done in that situation.

theodorus8864

25th July 2010, 16:32

I'm just sickened by the fact its a year since we almost lost Massa and this is how Ferrari repay him.. :(

You really don't get the message, do you? I doubt you followed the whole race in full attention. Sorry but Alonso DID REALLY have his lap times within Massa's, not for once but for so many coming laps. And you're here moaning bout Massa being mistreated.

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:33

From what I have seen Jenson has only been told hold his place behind Hamilton. Now suppose they're running Jenson, Rosberg, Hamilton. McLaren would be free to order Jenson to move behind Hamilton so that Hamilton gains more points from coming second than third. Would have loved to see Vettel in between Massa and Alonso to see what Ferrari would have done in that situation.

So why should Jenson be ordered to hold his place, that interferes with the outcome of the race :-)

Grinsomx

25th July 2010, 16:34

so we're fine? no penalty? i was really worried about that

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:34

Coulthard and Brundle have been on fire today, i gotta give em credit, they were drivers, they know its all about the championship, nothing else.

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:35

Coulthard and Brundle have been on fire today, i gotta give em credit, they were drivers, they know its all about the championship, nothing else.

They have stuck it to Eddie big time :-)

Ste

25th July 2010, 16:36

Coulthard and Brundle have been on fire today, i gotta give em credit, they were drivers, they know its all about the championship, nothing else.

Yea, totally agree with that. :-)

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 16:38

So why should Jenson be ordered to hold his place, that interferes with the outcome of the race :-)

I guess it depends how you look at it. Telling someone to hold station is not changing the outcome of the race because that's what the order was at that moment in time. Telling someone to slow and and move over is affecting the order. In any case, the investigation is good news for the other teams as they will find out how far they can go in terms of shuffling drivers.

justjesper

25th July 2010, 16:38

What happened to this thread : 'S H A M E O N YOU, F E R R A R I - D I S C U S T I N G'

Greig

25th July 2010, 16:38

I guess it depends how you look at it. Telling someone to hold station is not changing the outcome of the race because that's what the order was at that moment in time and not changing the outcome of the race. Telling someone to slow and and move over is affecting the order. n any case, the investigation is good news for the other teams as they will find out how far they can go in terms of shuffling drivers.

Stopping Jenson racing and winning is interfering, I can't see how you can deny that :-)

Ste

25th July 2010, 16:40

Good point from Brundle.

Would anyone have been bothered if we'd made the switch with our drivers down in P9 and P10? Probably not.

DIEK

25th July 2010, 16:41

BREAKING NEWS: Race stewards summon Ferrari's Rob Smedley because they want to know what "magnanimous" means too. #F1

But...

Twitter:- Ferrari cleared of team orders

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:42

Stopping Jenson racing and winning is interfering, I can't see how you can deny that :-)

Check this out, im glad Brundle didn't go against us.

Does anybody remember 2007 when Kimi was about beat Lewis to the world title?

Brundle and J.Allen were calling for Mclaren to ask Alonso to drop down the field from 3rd place to way back behind lewis so that lewis could get the points to win the title.

So they cant say a damn thing about the morality of team orders.

DIEK

25th July 2010, 16:42

What happened to this thread : 'S H A M E O N YOU, F E R R A R I - D I S C U S T I N G'

http://www.n3ri.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/delete.jpg

:-D

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 16:43

You're right as well. Team orders have always been in place, some more severe than others. We'll find out what the FIA thinks of them and the other teams will find out how much they can play god.

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 16:44

Brundle and J.Allen were calling for Mclaren to ask Alonso to drop down the field from 3rd place to way back behind lewis so that lewis could get the points to win the title.

I was surprised McLaren didn't do that. Or they tried and Alonso (understantably) didn't comply. Of course the good thing with today is that Ferrari fans no longer have the high ground to complain about McLaren when they most likely will do the same to secure the WDC for Hamilton or Button.

maho

25th July 2010, 16:48

Coulthard and Brundle have been on fire today, i gotta give em credit, they were drivers, they know its all about the championship, nothing else.

+1

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:48

I was surprised McLaren didn't do that. Or they tried and Alonso (understantably) didn't comply.

No way was alonso doing that , if raikonnen or massa broken down, he would be a 3 time world champ in that situation and he probably also decided to leave Mccheaters anyways.

I used to HATE alonso back then, but i always found it funny how at the sharp end of the 2007 season when it mattered, he suddenly went off the pace compared to lewis.

Since then i believe Mclaren admitted they '''accidently''' messed up alonso's tyre pressures.

Mind you, Ron Dennis is so honest and straight down the line, i cant believe he would allow that, only Ferrari bend the rules, Mclaren are very straight.

Hornet

25th July 2010, 16:49

BREAKING NEWS: Race stewards summon Ferrari's Rob Smedley because they want to know what "magnanimous" means too. #F1

But...

Twitter:- Ferrari cleared of team orders

Glad to hear that if its true :-D

Guess the stewards does not have any dictionary :-G

Hermann

25th July 2010, 16:51

Which twitter? I'm going to believe Charlie Brown will let us off the hook this time when i see something official.

We can't even enjoy a victory anymore- this is what i find really disgusting.

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 16:52

I used to HATE alonso back then, but i always found it funny how at the sharp end of the 2007 season when it mattered, he suddenly went off the pace compared to lewis.

That's where you have it wrong. Hamilton was consistently outscoring Alonso from the start of the season. Of course had Ron not forced Alonso to crash in Fuji with his evil powers he could have won the WDC and left the team with the #1. Let's just leave that for a different thread.

Some how I think RBR really need to focus on one driver now, be it Vettel and Webber. And each race make sure the chosen one finished ahead of the second driver no matter what position so that the WDC points is maximised.

aroutis

25th July 2010, 16:56

What happened to this thread : 'S H A M E O N YOU, F E R R A R I - D I S C U S T I N G'

Was there an idiot to start even a thread in a FERRARI FORUM , BASHING Ferrari ?

I am surprised they were not banned on the spot.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 16:58

That's where you have it wrong. Hamilton was consistently outscoring Alonso from the start of the season. Of course had Ron not forced Alonso to crash in Fuji with his evil powers he could have won the WDC and left the team with the #1. Let's just leave that for a different thread.

Listen, all this Hamilton beat alonso up at Mclaren stuff is nonsense.

They had the same amount of points, same amount of wins and Dennis CLEARLY favoured Hamilton

Aka

"We were basically racing Fernando"

Im sure its well documented that mclaren were messing up Alonso's tyre pressures, i was supporting Kimi at the time, but it was obvious to me that McLaren were up to something and favouring Hamilton.

The truth will come out eventually about this.

justjesper

25th July 2010, 16:58

Was there an idiot to start even a thread in a FERRARI FORUM , BASHING Ferrari ?

I am surprised they were not banned on the spot.

Well if Ferrari gets a penalty then you know why it should had stayed. We are not blind.

Effone

25th July 2010, 17:00

Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute

Source: Noble Twitter

arunkshrestha

25th July 2010, 17:00

Listen, all this Hamilton beat alonso up at Mclaren stuff is nonsense.

They had the same amount of points, same amount of wins and Dennis CLEARLY favoured Hamilton

Aka

"We were basically racing Fernando"

Im sure its well documented that mclaren were messing up Alonso's tyre pressures, i was supporting Kimi at the time, but it was obvious to me that McLaren were up to something and favouring Hamilton.

The truth will come out eventually about this.

That might might explain the second half, but not the first half, unless McLaren hired Alonso to a be #2 driver from the very first race.

Tommy_F

25th July 2010, 17:00

NobleF1

Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute

Great, just :furious ing great...

justjesper

25th July 2010, 17:01

100.000 easy, take it out of alonso's price money.

aroutis

25th July 2010, 17:01

Well if Ferrari gets a penalty then you know why it should had stayed. We are not blind.

If you wish to bash Ferrari you're free to do this elsewhere :)

Rookie

25th July 2010, 17:02

Stefano is our strategy guy as well? woah he must be run ragged every race :-)

LOL He's the manager and its his team to run. :) Just being objective about the whole situation. Because in as much as its for the team, people are made fools by what happened awhile ago. Mathematically Massa isn't a title contender and I get that but to make such as move is way too insulting for both fans alike. People watch F1 because of the racing. I watch F1 because of the racing of the best drivers with the best machinery which for me will always and forever be Ferrari but after what happened I cannot condone that and feel betrayed much the same back in Austria and monaco before but I still am a fan and I am entitled to criticize the team because of mistakes and blunders like that. Don't know why some people fail to see
this and people take some flak because they didn't liked what they saw and expressed their disappointment. If the 7 point difference will matter by the end of the season so be it but fact of the matter is this sucked big time. Hopefully with Ferrari being in form is something to be happy about but everything else is just plain sad...

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 17:02

NobleF1

Ferrari has been fined $100,000 and referred to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute

Great, just :furious ing great...

Not surprised at all.

Terrible news.

we were too blatant.

Man of the race

25th July 2010, 17:02

Felipes face said it all. No words needed. Felipe has given them so much, but Santander gives more.

Julie B

25th July 2010, 17:02

100.000 easy, take it out of alonso's price money.

"yawn":roll

Effone

25th July 2010, 17:03

I somehow dont think a mere 100k is going to persuade them not to do it anymore.. quite pointless :D

DIEK

25th July 2010, 17:03

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/7605/38845418036179572186696.jpg

FFFerrari

25th July 2010, 17:05

Can WMSC dish out more penalties about this or was it just the 100k (chump change)?

Tommy_F

25th July 2010, 17:05

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/7605/38845418036179572186696.jpg

Yeah, Vettel pushed Alonso off-track (that's beyond the white line) but I guess that was just a racing incident. if an incident at all.

aroutis

25th July 2010, 17:05

I somehow dont think a mere 100k is going to persuade them not to do it anymore.. quite pointless :DYou miss the point,

They are referring us to the World Motor Sport Council for team orders and bringing sport into disrepute, if WMSC decides against us, then we're in a bucketload of trouble.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 17:05

forget the 100k, Alonso would wipe his ass with a 100k, its the WMC im worried about, they can do all sorts.

Ste

25th July 2010, 17:06

100.000 easy, take it out of alonso's price money.

Alonso had nothing to do with it. It was TEAM decision, not Alonso on the radio telling Massa he was slower,

Tommy_F

25th July 2010, 17:06

Can WMSC dish out more penalties about this or was it just the 100k (chump change)?

They can.

Ste

25th July 2010, 17:06

Yeah, Vettel pushed Alonso off-track (that's beyond the white line) but I guess that was just a racing incident. if an incident at all.

Gave him a cars width so it's not really an issue.

maho

25th July 2010, 17:10

How long does it usually take until teams actually appear at the WMC when summoned?

Tommy_F

25th July 2010, 17:10

On a lighter note, the fine for fixing a race is the same as breaking the speed limit in the pits during practice by 500km/h :-D (200euros/kmh over the limit)

Sianellen

25th July 2010, 17:12

jakehumphreyf1 Breakung News - it's a 100k fine, referal to World Motorsport Council so more sanctions may follow

Ste

25th July 2010, 17:13

How long does it usually take until teams actually appear at the WMC when summoned?

It will probably be after we win both championships. They'll DQ us for the race and we will lose both.

That's the sort of thing they'd do.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 17:13

You know what, lets forget that WMC stuff for now, bottom line is, today the points are ours, if they take them away from the drivers at a later date, then it only de-legitimises the championship. So if they are willing to do that, then fine, rigght now, the points are in the bag and Alonso wont give a toss about this, he will be thinking about winning the next race and collecting more points.

Ste

25th July 2010, 17:13

jakehumphreyf1 Breakung News - it's a 100k fine, referal to World Motorsport Council so more sanctions may follow

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

Julie B

25th July 2010, 17:15

From Autosport

The FIA has announced that its World Motor Sport Council is to consider whether Ferrari should face further sanctions for the team orders controversy at the German Grand Prix, after the team was fined $100,000 for its actions.

Fernando Alonso was handed victory at Hockenheim after his Ferrari team-mate Felipe Massa sacrificed the lead on lap 48 - soon after the team had told the Brazilian that he was slower than the car behind him.

Although Ferrari has insisted that it did not issue a team order, and merely provided Massa with information, the race stewards after the German GP had a different opinion.

After speaking to team principal Stefano Domenicali, team manager Massimo Rivola, plus Alonso and Massa to examine the events of the afternoon, the race stewards decided that the regulations had been broken.

In a statement issued on Sunday night, the FIA stated that a breach of Article 39.1, which bans team orders, and 151c, which relates to bringing the sport into disrepute, had been committed.

It said that the penalty would be: "Fine $100,000. The case will also be referred to the FIA World Motorsport Council for further consideration."

Tommy_F

25th July 2010, 17:16

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

Would be ironic if Jean Todt would penalise US for FIXING A RACE wouldn't it?
(he is the president of the WMSC)

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 17:16

lol @ Planet f1 aka Planet Mclaren, so desperate to see ferrari lose points, when Lewis jumped the safety car or weaved about 16 times infront of petrov, it was never an issue though.

Im from UK, but the nationalist undercurrent is disgusting.

GamD

25th July 2010, 17:17

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

I really hope your right, but how else would they enforce the rule? 100k would be cheap price to break the team orders rule.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 17:17

Would be ironic if Jean Todt would penalise US for FIXING A RACE wouldn't it?
(he is the president of the WMSC)

Mate, we supported him to get to that position didnt we? i think Luca D and Schumacher et al all gave him great reviews, he owes us and its payback time. lol.

Tommy_F

25th July 2010, 17:18

And if you care, at the 2002 Austrian GP the fine was $1 million

http://twitter.com/EliGP/status/19505484765

Sianellen

25th July 2010, 17:19

Difference is, before there wasn't a rule about it and now there is, and we made it so blatant what we did, that we have a lot to answer for now.

FFFerrari

25th July 2010, 17:22

In other words, the stewards think we used team orders and will leave the real penalty decisions to WMSC. :-s

Brakefade

25th July 2010, 17:22

Just a little bit of history.

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=40626

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl6R7dujcnA

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 17:22

Doubt they will penalise us. Then they would have to penalise every other team for their team orders.

Not really Ste. There's team orders that no-one cares about and there's team orders that bring the sport into disrepute and make a mockery of it. Saying everybody does it doesn't change the significance of that and therefore the gravity.

Ste

25th July 2010, 17:23

Difference is, before there wasn't a rule about it and now there is, and we made it so blatant what we did, that we have a lot to answer for now.

Well, nobody specifically said "move over" or anything like that. It was Massa's decision and it was his choice to make it so blatant. Maybe you should Blame Massa for not making it look accidental rather than slagging off Alonso and co.

This isn't me saying it's Massa's fault by the way, not at all, it wasn't. Just saying that the team didn't go on the radio and tell him to slow down as much as possible and make it all look very blatant and obvious. :-)

If he'd ran wide at the hairpin, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

But again, that isn't me blaming Massa so please don't take it that way. :-)

Tifoso

25th July 2010, 17:23

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

Hornet

25th July 2010, 17:24

From Autosport
...
Although Ferrari has insisted that it did not issue a team order, and merely provided Massa with information, the race stewards after the German GP had a different opinion.

I really need to hear the steward's explanation on this.
What concrete evidence do they have to support their opinion?
Or does their legal system allow the stewards to follow their gut feeling

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 17:26

Well, nobody specifically said "move over" or anything like that.

Well this is exactly what the lawyer will have to tell the WMC, how can it be team orders if no driver was asked to move over, no order was ever given.

Is that right?

Mind you F1 is such a joke these days, its one rule for ferrari and another for other teams.

Sianellen

25th July 2010, 17:26

Well, nobody specifically said "move over" or anything like that. It was Massa's decision and it was his choice to make it so blatant. Maybe you should Blame Massa for not making it look accidental rather than slagging off Alonso and co.

This isn't me saying it's Massa's fault by the way, not at all, it wasn't. Just saying that the team didn't go on the radio and tell him to slow down as much as possible and make it all look very blatant and obvious. :-)

If he'd ran wide at the hairpin, nobody would have batted an eyelid.

But again, that isn't me blaming Massa so please don't take it that way. :-)

So Stefano and LC didn't make it look every so slightly obvious either then. Why should Massa have to move when he earned his position. It's not slagging Alonso off to want him to earn it for himself.

Ste

25th July 2010, 17:27

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

Bit of both mate. We made a massive gain in Valencia and Silverstone and they're totally different tracks to Hockenheim. We performed there, but came out with results that didn't reflect it. The car was suited to the track today and we showed that, but we've definitely improved. I think we will be strong at Hungary too since our traction has been phenomenal this weekend. :-)

Julie B

25th July 2010, 17:27

I'm erring on the side of they're punishing us not for the team orders for but being so blatent about it :lol

Hermann

25th July 2010, 17:27

I really need to hear the steward's explanation on this.
What concrete evidence do they have to support their opinion?
Or does their legal system allow the stewards to follow their gut feeling

I think so, yes- there is that passus 'sanction to the stewards descretion' in the rules.

Ste

25th July 2010, 17:28

So Stefano and LC didn't make it look every so slightly obvious either then.

Well once the deed was done, what else could they do?

Apart from tell the truth of course.

brembo man

25th July 2010, 17:28

Would be ironic if Jean Todt would penalise US for FIXING A RACE wouldn't it?
(he is the president of the WMSC)

Someone would have to explain to Todt what team orders are, so only then can he make an honest call on the situation at hand. I'm sure he wil find it very hard to believe Ferrari would even dream of such a thing.

Tifoso

25th July 2010, 17:28

Hornet

25th July 2010, 17:29

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

I think we have made some significant improvement.
IMO we've been suffering at tracks that relies a lot on downforce where there are many fast sweeping corners. When we went to Monaco, we wasn't so bad there actually.

This track has lots of medium to fast corners and I was expecting us to be at a disadvantage again, but we did great, so IMO they may have starting to tackle the car's weakness

I hope so anyway

Rookie

25th July 2010, 17:30

Bit of both mate. We made a massive gain in Valencia and Silverstone and they're totally different tracks to Hockenheim. We performed there, but came out with results that didn't reflect it. The car was suited to the track today and we showed that, but we've definitely improved. I think we will be strong at Hungary too since our traction has been phenomenal this weekend. :-)

I'am happy atleast now that its between us, Redbull and Mclaren. Hungary will be the real test to see if we've improved out car to match them. I see Hungary as another tough race so long as the WMC doesn't do too much damage.

BigRedOne

25th July 2010, 17:30

Fined $100K That is more than penalty enough.

My question: do you guys think that we have finally made the leap in performance, or is this a track related 1 of?

IMO, I think we have made a jump. How is this track vastly different??

DIEK

25th July 2010, 17:31

FFFerrari

25th July 2010, 17:31

Proving the team order infraction might be impossible for them, but the 151c is so vague they can easily dish about any punishment they choose since it was clear that the sport was disreputed today. Lets see how long it will take for them to gather the WMSC together for this.

Hornet

25th July 2010, 17:33

I think so, yes- there is that passus 'sanction to the stewards descretion' in the rules.

I see. Thanks for clearing that up ;-)

Tifoso

25th July 2010, 17:37

Schumi: Ferrari's actions totally right

Sunday, 25 July 2010 16:52

Michael Schumacher says he totally understands why Felipe Massa let his Ferrari team-mate Fernando Alonso past to win the German Grand Prix - and thinks it was the right outcome.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=48923&PO=48923

The last person who should pass judgement (admittedly in our favor) on an incident of team orders is Michael. :-D I actually COL (chuckled)

Raz

25th July 2010, 17:38

Farce India are gonna be investigated for being a joke :rotfl :lol
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85554

Katu

25th July 2010, 17:39

i remember Todt saying to Barrichello who was leading schumi in US GP 2005 that they needed both car finish and after that barrichello took long first corner. there was only 6 cars out there... i don't see how today's conversation between massa and smedley was any different. nobody said back then a thing, why's everybody crying now?

Raz

25th July 2010, 17:41

Katu

25th July 2010, 17:46

yeah had massa ran a bit wide at turn 6.. it wouldn't have been an issue

he should have learned from Barrichello then how to handle that situation. surely they have discussed the possibile outcomes of these kinds of cirmustances

Mad Max

25th July 2010, 18:01

"It's a shame, not for us because this is racing, but for all the fans who came here to watch a manipulated race," Fernando Alonso, Valencia, 2010.

Greig

25th July 2010, 18:02

"It's a shame, not for us because this is racing, but for all the fans who came here to watch a manipulated race," Fernando Alonso, Valencia, 2010.

And? Alonso never made any team radio, Alonso never made any orders, Alonso never asked to be let past, fail to see what your trying to suggest?

DIEK

25th July 2010, 18:03

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zP-7osU-E8&feature=player_embedded#!4

Mad Max

25th July 2010, 18:08

And? Alonso never made any team radio, Alonso never made any orders, Alonso never asked to be let past, fail to see what your trying to suggest?
because he implies it was a shame for the fans to see a manipulated race in valencia but seems like this was not a shame for the fans at this race
alonso did in fact make comments on the team radio earlier on

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 18:09

And? Alonso never made any team radio, Alonso never made any orders, Alonso never asked to be let past, fail to see what your trying to suggest?

The race was manipulated. Blatently. i dont care whose fault it was or who else does it, we look dumb as a result. :-??

Greig

25th July 2010, 18:09

because he implies it was a shame for the fans to see a manipulated race in valencia but seems like this was not a shame for the fans at this race
alonso did in fact make comments on the team radio earlier on

He said it was ridiculous, and it was at that time, Felipe was struggling to stay on track and they nearly came together, he did not ask for anything.

Greig

25th July 2010, 18:10

The race was manipulated. Blatently. i dont care whose fault it was or who else does it, we look dumb as a result. :-??

If it was Alonso fans saying stuff like this you would be telling them to go find an Alonso forum :-)

You think we look dumb, many don't :-)

Tifoso

25th July 2010, 18:11

The race was manipulated. Blatently. i dont care whose fault it was or who else does it, we look dumb as a result. :-??

We look dumb because of how it was handled, not because we did it. ;-)

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 18:13

We look dumb because of how it was handled, not because we did it. ;-)

doesnt matter dude. We undid a lot of opinion rebuilding today. That's done.

Mad Max

25th July 2010, 18:15

He said it was ridiculous, and it was at that time, Felipe was struggling to stay on track and they nearly came together, he did not ask for anything.
and his comments would certainly have no influence on the decision to let him pass massa

Tifoso

25th July 2010, 18:15

doesnt matter dude. We undid a lot of opinion rebuilding today. That's done.

I like it when Ferrari are hated/feared :-D

Greig

25th July 2010, 18:18

and his comments would certainly have no influence on the decision to let him pass massa

Never seemed to in any of the previous races?

Greig

25th July 2010, 18:19

doesnt matter dude. We undid a lot of opinion rebuilding today. That's done.

On no, the BBC have it in for us, well Eddie Jordan :-D

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 18:25

On no, the BBC have it in for us, well Eddie Jordan :-D

nope, public opinion and the opinion of fans will change because of this - how much I don't know. Based on the way the team reacted afterwards, i'd also say we have made the feud between Webber and Vettel look like a lover's tiff. As Julie says, we've opened up a can of worms.....completely unecessarily too!

Stormsearcher

25th July 2010, 18:26

well.. it might make sense as a team decision.. and it was done in that light. It was just very badly handled.
I hope it remains at a fine and no further sanctions are issued. Was such a great race. I had the feeling that Nando would have overtaken Felipe eventually, but it might have been tricky on this narrow track and hence the team intervened.
Sigh!!... but its still a 1-2 nonetheless and i think we have to take the good from this and move forward for another 1-2 next race.

redsteph

25th July 2010, 18:38

Ah - you all liking Michael now then? :roll

The one thing Michael forgot when he was being interviewed is that team orders are now banned. As in 2002 Ferrari have handled this unbelievably badly. It was totally unfair to make Rob Smedley make that call.

To say nothing of the fact that they they just shouldn't of done it. If Fernando can't pass Felipe on the track then he doesn't deserve the extra points 1st place bring.

It would of been a fantastic result. Felipe's 1st win since Brazil 2008 and on the anniversary of his crash. Ferrari still get the 1-2 but I can't see how anyone can be pleased at how the race finished. I'm just angry :furious

epiclyaddicted

25th July 2010, 18:38

I like it when Ferrari are hated/feared :-D

Kind of agree... :-D

And by the way, "Ferrari International Assistance" is currently the number 1 trending topic worldwide on twitter. ;-)

Racehound

25th July 2010, 18:39

Massa FL1:17:997 i9diot!!!!!!! he is still holding up Fernando!!!!

:lol:furious

Greig

25th July 2010, 18:41

Ah - you all liking Michael now then? :roll

Don't see where you got that from? :roll

Tifoso

25th July 2010, 18:45

SPEED---really happy that Ferrari are back :-E

Losticus

25th July 2010, 18:46

First of all congratulations for this 1-2. Pace of both cars was awesome and I'm glad that Ferrari had catch up at last, so this allow us to look forward for the rest of the season not only with hope but with joy.

Said so I'm really amazed as to how the team, and specifically FM, managed the switching. Firstly ley me say that I agree with team orders and that I find this rule absolutely ridicolous in a so called team sport. If there is a team price, the WCC, how do you expect the teams to not fight as such?

What puzzles me is RS and FM handling of the situation. In a team, if you are asked to give position you can do any of two things: disobbey the orders and keep fighting or obbey the orders in a way that does't hurt the team. But, to obbey the orders in a so blatantly obvious manner that is going to hurt your team, just to show the world how you were not allowed to win is, IMO, an unprofessional behaviour.

Hermann

25th July 2010, 18:47

SPEED---really happy that Ferrari are back :-E

Isn't Speed an american broadcast?

Tifoso

25th July 2010, 18:50

Isn't Speed an american broadcast?

It is. But they (not all of them) have been at least mildly anti-Ferrari in the past. Nice to see them come around :-)

Tifosi

25th July 2010, 18:51

fffs!!! Alonso could have won thisrace byat least 40 seconds but he got held up!! by fakkn Massa!!!!

Yet again you excel yourself with your shallowness :lol

Julie B

25th July 2010, 18:56

I know this is a hot topic and everyone has their strong opinions but can we calm the language down please, even if it is abbreviated !

diablos123

25th July 2010, 18:57

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 19:04

As much as i understand FA being faster than FM, but this was just not the case today. When did FM get slower? immediately after that first call from Rob, "Well done, if you keep this up you'll win" After which he got slower and slower.. Alonso over took, Massa dropped further back, suddenly as Vettel gets within 1 sec, Massa gets faster???

This was a planned result from the offset.

One thing i've noticed of Massa, when he's infront, 80% of the time he stays there. Most days Alonso is faster than him. But, I'll not be that blind to say today was one of such day.

Massa is an outstanding front runner, but Alonso was faster all weekend, by 0.5 of a sec in quali and Alonso cut the gap from 2.5 down to 0.8 with some outstanding driving, had alonso had come out of corner 1 in P1, massa wouldnt have got within 0.8 of alonso, alonso is just faster and better.

diablos123

25th July 2010, 19:08

Massa is an outstanding front runner, but Alonso was faster all weekend, by 0.5 of a sec in quali and Alonso cut the gap from 2.5 down to 0.8 with some outstanding driving, had alonso had come out of corner 1 in P1, massa wouldnt have got within 0.8 of alonso, alonso is just faster and better.

I agree with you 100%. I just think with a 0.5 sec advantage over Massa, he should have overtaken him easily.

Hermann

25th July 2010, 19:13

I agree with you 100%. I just think with a 0.5 sec advantage over Massa, he should have overtaken him easily.

Easily? Have you been watching races lately? Not, its not easy. Not even when you are one second faster.

And Massa fought him with teeth and nails. Should Fernando risk an accident with pressing through? Or another penalty for being forced off track? Come on...

Everybody hates team orders like this. While they are happening all the time in the leading teams. Maybe they should just make them legal again, its done anyway, and penalties for them are hypocritical.

DIEK

25th July 2010, 19:18

996 GT1 Lover

25th July 2010, 19:21

I'm very happy with the 1-2 finish today. However, I'm not completely sure how I feel about what occurred regarding team orders today. I'm a team first guy, and I admittedly think Alonso is a better driver, but I don't really think that this is how he should've won.

Tech_Skill

25th July 2010, 19:23

Q: (Carlos Miquel – Diario AS) Fernando, do you feel that some people are worrying because you are back in the championship?
FA: Maybe it seems like this, yes.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9052/sisi3.gif

I have always said, the top drivers in the sport are Alonso and Hamilton, Vettel isnt on that level yet cos he needs Horner to help him beat Webber and he struggled against Button last year on the occasions he had the better car. A fully focused, happy alonso in a good car is game over for 95% of the drivers in this field, Hamilton is the only one we REALLY need to worry about, even more so that Vettel. Webber and Button are ok drivers who found themselves in top cars.

I have also always said a 100% felipe massa is better than button and Webber, can you imagine Massa at the front of the grid in that red bull....in clear air, without horner interfering???

He would be killing these others drivers man.