AustrianGP 2020 Pre-Race thread

[tifosi1993]

Of course they are lost, completely. They have been lost since 2009 and will not recover for a long time

So they are "lost" and "incompetent" because they haven't brought any major upgrades for this race? OK. And you are mentioning 2009, Okay...what about the year before 2009? Or are we only going to focus on "bad" years?
I know going after this team is pretty normal nowadays. But why not wait a little, less than 48 hours to go and after that we shall know everything.

[Cavallino]

Ferrari may not have brought any meaningful upgrades for this race, but they have done their homework for this race. Austria isn't heavily aero demanding, nor it is technical. A car with good straightline speed and stable rear end will do quite well here.
All I hope that Ferrari will go through this weekend without any major reliability issues.

I agree.

So yes, the AERO upgrade is not available for this race, but as you point out, we don't really need it. I do believe, and I may be wrong, that there are still other upgrades coming for this race, mainly the new spec engine and the reinforced suspension.

Then come Hungary, when you need a better aero package, it will be available.

Don't forget, Charles was VERY competitive here last year with last year's concept, and that was before the Singapore aero upgrade and the engine fuel improvements (that may or may not be true). Charles only lost due to tyre wear, which is something Ferrari HAS improved on.

Also don't forget that Charles was very close to Hamilton's long run times in testing.

So, it stands to reason that a refinement of last year's package can be very competitive in Austria. Good enough for damage limitation, and possibly more.

[jgonzalesm6]

Ferrari poster

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb2psxlW...name=4096x4096

[jgonzalesm6]

The only equalizer to this track is mother nature regarding MB and Redbull upgrades.

The track currently is experiencing showers.

Could we see showers towards the weekend.

[tifosi1993]

I agree.

So yes, the AERO upgrade is not available for this race, but as you point out, we don't really need it. I do believe, and I may be wrong, that there are still other upgrades coming for this race, mainly the new spec engine and the reinforced suspension.

Then come Hungary, when you need a better aero package, it will be available.

Don't forget, Charles was VERY competitive here last year with last year's concept, and that was before the Singapore aero upgrade and the engine fuel improvements (that may or may not be true). Charles only lost due to tyre wear, which is something Ferrari HAS improved on.

Also don't forget that Charles was very close to Hamilton's long run times in testing.

So, it stands to reason that a refinement of last year's package can be very competitive in Austria. Good enough for damage limitation, and possibly more.

Well first of all, I think most "experts" here don't fully grasp last year's predicament. Most "experts" here talks about downforce and what not, and gets triggered when they can't detect any new visual features on the car. But they often forget/don't know anything about "Vehicle Dynamics". Last years SF90's main problem was race pace, and they way it handled it's tyres on full tank. Tyre issues are a result of how the vehicle's dynamics work the tyres on a given surface. Vehicle dynamics are a result of aerodynamics and mechanical balance. It's not as simple as saying "Oh last year's car lacked downforce", because SF90 had no problem with high-speed corners. The problem was excessive tyre wear and bad low-speed cornering.

And we still haven't had one race weekend yet, but people have already jumped the gun.

[tifosi1993]

The only equalizer to this track is mother nature regarding MB and Redbull upgrades.

The track currently is experiencing showers.

Could we see showers towards the weekend.

There's another equalizer: those upgrades are not really that substantial/may not work as intended. Just because teams have brought new parts, it doesn't mean each and every single one of those new parts are going to work as intended.

[jgonzalesm6]

There's another equalizer: those upgrades are not really that substantial/may not work as intended. Just because teams have brought new parts, it doesn't mean each and every single one of those new parts are going to work as intended.

Well, we are talking about MB and RedBull.....not to mention this is RedBull's track. Then there's practice where the teams take aero grids via pitot tubes and flo-viz to see if the up-grades will help......which given both teams....I'm confident they will.

So I'm hoping for rain to equalize the top three.....otherwise we could be looking at 3rd place.

[stefa]

So they are "lost" and "incompetent" because they haven't brought any major upgrades for this race? OK. And you are mentioning 2009, Okay...what about the year before 2009? Or are we only going to focus on "bad" years?
I know going after this team is pretty normal nowadays. But why not wait a little, less than 48 hours to go and after that we shall know everything.

You realize that year before 2009 was 12 years ago?!

[tifosi1993]

You realize that year before 2009 was 12 years ago?!

3.78683424x10^8

But counting years wasn't the point.

[PURE PASSION]

Well first of all, I think most "experts" here don't fully grasp last year's predicament. Most "experts" here talks about downforce and what not, and gets triggered when they can't detect any new visual features on the car. But they often forget/don't know anything about "Vehicle Dynamics". Last years SF90's main problem was race pace, and they way it handled it's tyres on full tank. Tyre issues are a result of how the vehicle's dynamics work the tyres on a given surface. Vehicle dynamics are a result of aerodynamics and mechanical balance. It's not as simple as saying "Oh last year's car lacked downforce", because SF90 had no problem with high-speed corners. The problem was excessive tyre wear and bad low-speed cornering.

And we still haven't had one race weekend yet, but people have already jumped the gun.

Well the team itself (Binotto-Vettel-Leclerc etc) simply said last year that we lack front downforce. And this causing all sorts of problems in the rest of the car and its dynamics mostly bacause we where trying to "fix" this problem mostly on set-up changes!!!
Now for this year the sad true is that the tean failed to "read" correctly last years faults ,to dasign a car without them. They simply tryied to "evolve" the SF-90 witch proved total failure. And all THIS are not my words and claims but Mr Binotto's !!!!! From last years Australian GP till now ,according to him the team failed to dasign a winning car and made the wrong dicisions .
NOW myself i feel completely disappointed with the team ,espacialy with the path they took this year. BUT i will give them another chance and wait ti see what we will unveil in Hungary !

[Greig]

When you see other top teams bringing upgrades while Ferrari doddle is the very definition of incompetence. Even if Ferrari were favored to win, to stand still while your opponents progress is... well... idiotic.

And this isn't the first time that Ferrari have failed the development race.

While Merc and RBR were developing upgrades, what were Ferrari doing? Playing canasta?



Meh. Snowflakes gonna snowflake. I am not changing my language to oblige the mob.

These other teams have not changed the whole design philosophy of the car in 5 weeks. Maybe you would prefer we just carried on in the wrong direction? Sometimes you have to take a few steps back to go forward. Not sure how you can say that is standing still but never mind you might one day find something supportive about the team you claim to support. But I doubt it....

[paolo lalli]

Thank God that the Ferrari rd car engineer and designers are far away from the Ferrari f1 division of incompetent clue less clowns the jobs for the boys principle has bitten Ferrari f1 on the backside again and again.Captain BINOTTO is one of the boys luckily Ferrari f1 are a rich organisation that can afford mistakes other wise they would have folded long ago with the financial breaking errors.Even teams with a fraction of the budget and the technology embarrase Ferrari even with there very little they are mighty with leadership.

[WS6TransAm01]

These other teams have not changed the whole design philosophy of the car in 5 weeks. Maybe you would prefer we just carried on in the wrong direction? Sometimes you have to take a few steps back to go forward. Not sure how you can say that is standing still but never mind you might one day find something supportive about the team you claim to support. But I doubt it....

Stockholm syndrome much?

Hard to be supportive when all they do is disappoint; year in, year out. The support tends to run out after a decade of crap.

[Greig]

Stockholm syndrome much?

Hard to be supportive when all they do is disappoint; year in, year out. The support tends to run out after a decade of crap.

Depends on if you have to be winning every year to be a fan I suppose, but if that's what you need then no idea why you would have supported Ferrari to begin with....

Many probably feel the same about your posts here tbh.

[FerrariF60]

You realize that year before 2009 was 12 years ago?!

and also 2008 it was the last year we had a championship winning car and WHY????? because unlimited real track testing was still allowed.....ever since it was banned, ferrari's wing got clipped and were lost ever since.....not a a clue using wind tunnel and CFD

[chinmay]

The problem lies in the tech tools - wind tunnel, cfd etc.. Whatever they see virtually never translates on track.

[tifosi1993]

Well the team itself (Binotto-Vettel-Leclerc etc) simply said last year that we lack front downforce. And this causing all sorts of problems in the rest of the car and its dynamics mostly bacause we where trying to "fix" this problem mostly on set-up changes!!!
Now for this year the sad true is that the tean failed to "read" correctly last years faults ,to dasign a car without them. They simply tryied to "evolve" the SF-90 witch proved total failure. And all THIS are not my words and claims but Mr Binotto's !!!!! From last years Australian GP till now ,according to him the team failed to dasign a winning car and made the wrong dicisions .
NOW myself i feel completely disappointed with the team ,espacialy with the path they took this year. BUT i will give them another chance and wait ti see what we will unveil in Hungary !

Need a source.

Now, I've heard what Ferrari said about last years SF90. "We should have focused more on downforce", which means forget aero-efficiency, put as much downfoce on the car as possible.
Last years (and this years) Pirelli tyres were constructed quite differently than 2018 version, due to having thinner tread instead, unlike the 2018 version, it pretty much rewarded high downforce. Doesn't matter how much draggier the car gets, as long as it has high downforce, the tyres will work the best.

That was the main problem of last years car. The SF90, due to being aero-efficient, couldn't work the tyres properly during races, and as a result lacked mechanical grip in slow speed corners and had excessive tyre wear. We have to remember that SF90 took 9 pole positions, and on tracks with different aero balance, like Singapore, Suzuka and Monza, three tracks with totally different aero loads. But it struggled during Sunday's race, because it couldn't hold on to its tyres as well as the Mercedes.

[ferenc_k]

Need a source.

Now, I've heard what Ferrari said about last years SF90. "We should have focused more on downforce", which means forget aero-efficiency, put as much downfoce on the car as possible.
Last years (and this years) Pirelli tyres were constructed quite differently than 2018 version, due to having thinner tread instead, unlike the 2018 version, it pretty much rewarded high downforce. Doesn't matter how much draggier the car gets, as long as it has high downforce, the tyres will work the best.

That was the main problem of last years car. The SF90, due to being aero-efficient, couldn't work the tyres properly during races, and as a result lacked mechanical grip in slow speed corners and had excessive tyre wear. We have to remember that SF90 took 9 pole positions, and on tracks with different aero balance, like Singapore, Suzuka and Monza, three tracks with totally different aero loads. But it struggled during Sunday's race, because it couldn't hold on to its tyres as well as the Mercedes.

Thanks for the explanation, quite refreshing to read it.

[jgonzalesm6]

Safety car and medical car....new logo...."WeRaceAsOne"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb6BaKeX...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb6BbFaX...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb6Bb7GX...g&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb6BcuBX...g&name=900x900

[jgonzalesm6]

An error was found in Hamilton’s car, that’s why all Mercedes engines (also customers) needs to be removed from all cars to check and fix.

[tifosi1993]

The Mercedes Carbon Black...




Oh how I wish Ferrari would do something different with their livery. Black wings, Gold rims and Blood Red body paint...that would look epic. But instead we get the ugly "Mission Winnow"

[FerrariF60]

The problem lies in the tech tools - wind tunnel, cfd etc.. Whatever they see virtually never translates on track.

Hence why Ferrari r3ally miss the unlimited real track testing that they did 27/7 in their backyard Fiorano track that stopped at the end of 2008....and coincidentally last year Ferrari had a real competitive car.....

Sad but really true

[WS6TransAm01]

Depends on if you have to be winning every year to be a fan I suppose, but if that's what you need then no idea why you would have supported Ferrari to begin with....

Many probably feel the same about your posts here tbh.

You realize you can support the team and still be critical of them, right? They are not mutually exclusive. Have you ever been in a managerial position where you want someone you oversee to succeed but in order to do so you have to rectify their behavior with criticism? Criticism doesn't mean lack of support.

People have also supported my posts here. What's your point?

[jgonzalesm6]

You realize you can support the team and still be critical of them, right? They are not mutually exclusive. Have you ever been in a managerial position where you want someone you oversee to succeed but in order to do so you have to rectify their behavior with criticism? Criticism doesn't mean lack of support.

People have also supported my posts here. What's your point?

[Aziz]

Depends on if you have to be winning every year to be a fan I suppose, but if that's what you need then no idea why you would have supported Ferrari to begin with....

Many probably feel the same about your posts here tbh.

Nooo, Ferrari is competing in F1 to be 3rd or 2nd, so we as fans must be over the moon happy, when they do the same thing 12 years in row, they even started to recycle the same excuses form a decad ago. But we are fans we all love Ferrari and we all want them to be the best version of themselves they can be

[jgonzalesm6]

Aero updates on the W11

one pylon rear wing already tested in Barcelona. Different top wing and less downforce.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb6vUFFX...jpg&name=large


New mirrors

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb66K8pW...pg&name=medium


New diffuse

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb69xLdX...pg&name=medium




New bargeboards for Renault. Full revised with new vertical fins.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb7G48NW...jpg&name=large


New front wing top flaps for Renault to improve outwash. 3rd.element connected to main plane. Interesting.
New sideplate

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb7SbXAU...pg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb7ScBHW...jpg&name=large



Difficult to see from the distance, but looks that McLaren has another difusor configuration.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb7W-qnV...pg&name=medium

[jgonzalesm6]

Nooo, Ferrari is competing in F1 to be 3rd or 2nd, so we as fans must be over the moon happy, when they do the same thing 12 years in row, they even started to recycle the same excuses form a decad ago. But we are fans we all love Ferrari and we all want them to be the best version of themselves they can be

[jgonzalesm6]

Track got some rain today....again.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb7GBnbU...jpg&name=large

https://twitter.com/AlphaTauriF1/sta...79881870643201

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1278682270019325954

https://twitter.com/HaasF1Team/statu...82636597317633


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb7GOvPX...jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb7F4mKX...jpg&name=small

[Liscia]

The Mercedes Carbon Black...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb6ch0HX...pg&name=medium
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb6cie3X...pg&name=medium

Oh how I wish Ferrari would do something different with their livery. Black wings, Gold rims and Blood Red body paint...that would look epic. But instead we get the ugly "Mission Winnow"

[Liscia]

Agree about Mission Minnow but here is photographic proof that Mercedes can even make a black car look gaudy!