Exotic engine maps to be banned from 2012

[sagi58]

"Cheating" is such an ugly word! With such negative connotations!

Which is probably why you hear about "creative interpretations" of the rules.
Seems to me that Ross Brawn and his team were "creative" and Jenson Button
ended up as WDC as a result.

[Greig]

"Cheating" is such an ugly word! With such negative connotations!

Which is probably why you hear about "creative interpretations" of the rules.
Seems to me that Ross Brawn and his team were "creative" and Jenson Button
ended up as WDC as a result.

Agreed, F1 engineers have always been creative and we should never try and stop that IMO.

[sagi58]

Agreed, F1 engineers have always been creative and we should never try and stop that IMO.

How does that happen with FOTA limiting RRA? Not, only that but after
all the R & D, testing is important, and that's being limited by the FIA.

p.s. Next stop, the F.I.A.?

[Greig]

Because you can see it still happening?

Todt was pushing for more testing, the teams seemed pretty against it, so not sure FIA is to blame

[Rob]

Because you can see it still happening?

Todt was pushing for more testing, the teams seemed pretty against it, so not sure FIA is to blame

Think Ferrari and Mclaren and couple more teams, i cannt remember who else were up for it, but RBR and fewlittle teams were not.

[sagi58]

Think Ferrari and Mclaren and couple more teams, i cannt remember who else were up for it, but RBR and fewlittle teams were not.

Exactly, therefore it is up to the FIA to find a compromise!!

[Greig]

they did

[kazi]

I was bemoaning that they weren't banned. When they stated they were closing the front of the diffuser. Had they actually done that it would have ended blowing through the diffuser. But instead they left those 5cms on each side.

Can you with a straight face say you would have said the same thing if Ferrari were the ones having the best EBD?

[NJB13]

Can you with a straight face say you would have said the same thing if Ferrari were the ones having the best EBD?

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, yes.

[NJB13]

"Cheating" is such an ugly word! With such negative connotations!

Which is probably why you hear about "creative interpretations" of the rules.
Seems to me that Ross Brawn and his team were "creative" and Jenson Button
ended up as WDC as a result.

I agree that cheating is an ugly word. It is no different in that respect to being abusive or bullying.

There is cheating and there is creativity. One does not preclude the other. Cheats will try and portray themselves as being creative.

When a rule clearly states you cannot do X, then you should not do X. Not being caught doesn't mean you haven't cheated.

Simply beating a test does not make you creative IMO. The Eastern block athletes of the cold war often passed the Olympic drug tests using some sort of uricosuric drug. They passed the test but I would not describe them as creative - I'd call that cheating. For that reason alone, passing a test doesn't ipso facto mean you are not a cheat.

[scuderiafan]

Think Ferrari and Mclaren and couple more teams, i cannt remember who else were up for it, but RBR and fewlittle teams were not.

didnt Todt say that they could compromise for 2012, but for 2013. proper testing will be coming in, no matter what?

on the Cheating thing, Bernie said this about his time at Brabham, when they were winning titles.

we were the masters of cheating, and we never got caught.

imo, everybody really 'cheats', and then the FIA have to catch them, but until they dont, they arent cheating per se.

i think it is fine, and a sort of cops and robbers, cat and mouse game. i think it is one of the interesting things about the sport.
finding out new ways in which to 'cheat' for the want of a better word.

[Rob]

it isnt cheating, its an unfair advantage as Colin Chapman used to say.

[scuderiafan]

it isnt cheating, its an unfair advantage as Colin Chapman used to say.

yeah i'm fine with this sort of 'cheating'. this is what part of the sport is about.

but then some teams take it too far by stealing 600 pages documents on rival's cars.

[Greig]

Ever since 2010 testing there has been a seemingly endless stream of solutions as to why the Red Bulls are so fast.

The exhaust decals hiding the real exhausts, engine mapping, bendy t-trays, flexing front wings, adjustable ride-heights.... need I go on?

I think Horner Newey and co have developed this to a fine art and seem to be successfully sending everyone off on whatever their current wild-goose-chase is. In Melb it was the R-less KERS.

Perhaps in Sepang we might get snippets of "secret tools" like left handed hammers or striped paint.

Whatever the secret to their success, it's probably sitting right there in front of us (like that bendy nose) but they have us running down enough dead ends at the same time to ensure we just can't find the real needle in their haystack.

For me, the real secret to their success is they have been innovative, perhaps we need to focus more on that.

Maybe NJB13 can explain how his opinion has changed so dramatically since this post Now it's all cheats, unfair, too much aero, EBD doom and gloom... FIA suck.....

[kazi]

Beyond a shadow of a doubt, yes.

Do you just dislike the idea of EBD's? Or am i missing something?

[NJB13]

Do you just dislike the idea of EBD's? Or am i missing something?

I agree with LCdM that F1 has become far too oriented to aeros. To me EBD's are a contributing factor to that and I'd love to see them go.

As I said many times previously, when the FiA said they were closing the front of the diffuser, to me, it meant the emasculation of EBD's. But when the rules came out the front of the diffuser wasn't closed, they left 5cm each side open. I wish they did what they said they were going to do.

I worry now when they say they will move exhausts to exit beyond areas of influence, that they may do it but somehow leave another 10cm caveat.