Briatore says Ferrari team no longer excellent

[Greig]

Well you would call it a cheap excuse, but it is a fact that the sport is very different now. Stefano does not have unlimited testing, wind tunnel use etc as Todt did.

You could tell us what Stefano has done wrong in creating a condition for people to use their full potential? How do you know we are not getting the full potential from what we have and that the team infact lacks talent from the ground upwards? It's fine saying A is not performing well enough but if B who is better does not want to join Ferrari then what is Stefano going to do about it? Considering Stefano has hired Alonso and Kimi suggests he more than willing to bring in talent when it's possible no?

Maybe if you can tell us who is better than what we have and why Ferrari have not hired them then your point won't seem so cheap.

[Hornet]

The sport is what it is today, like it or not, but the rules apply the same for all. Being successful means creating a wining concept within this rules.

Although the rules are same for everyone, they are intentionally design to restrict the advantages bigger teams like Ferrari had in the past. Back in the Schumi glory days, the team had the freedom to use everything Ferrari could afford to do, we could send all our drivers and test drivers out to test as much as we wanted, do whatever it takes to make a fast car. So long as our car meet the technical rules, we can take any approach we want to make that car. That means we can take advantage of our strength and minimize the effect of our weakness.

Now it's different. What approach we can take to building a car is very restricted, we have rules that dictate how much testing you can do, how much wind tunnel and CFD usage you can have, etc. If that's not bad enough, these changes were introduced bit by bit every year.

So if you think about it, not only the goal post is smaller now, it's a moving goal post as well. It's many times more difficult now to achieve success.

[ntukza]

Well you would call it a cheap excuse, but it is a fact that the sport is very different now. Stefano does not have unlimited testing, wind tunnel use etc as Todt did.

You could tell us what Stefano has done wrong in creating a condition for people to use their full potential? How do you know we are not getting the full potential from what we have and that the team infact lacks talent from the ground upwards? It's fine saying A is not performing well enough but if B who is better does not want to join Ferrari then what is Stefano going to do about it? Considering Stefano has hired Alonso and Kimi suggests he more than willing to bring in talent when it's possible no?

Maybe if you can tell us who is better than what we have and why Ferrari have not hired them then your point won't seem so cheap.

So Greig are you blaming Stefano, his subordinates, or the rules; or are you simply accepting the situation as it is and hoping for things to improve with the passing of time?

[paneristi]

all is fair in war.
just wondering: are you saying that the whole FIA is trying to punish Ferrari alone? or, including the big teams, such as Mercedes? Or, in other words: Ferrari is helpless without testing?
Ferrari perhaps has the largest supporters in F1, and punishing Ferrari is like committing suicide for FIA in F1, killing their own business.
If testing is the only thing we can do, then I must say we are one stubborn team that does not want to accept the reality that others can do well without testing. Ross Brawn was in our dream team, but he succeeded in the test-ban era. Newey has been there before the test-ban, and still can create winning cars.
Aldo Costa was declared too conservative, and yet he creates competitive engine, be him the technical boss or not.
The fact that we are adopting the wrong strategy and we are simply not too capable of organising a competitive team are too obvious.

Although the rules are same for everyone, they are intentionally design to restrict the advantages bigger teams like Ferrari had in the past. Back in the Schumi glory days, the team had the freedom to use everything Ferrari could afford to do, we could send all our drivers and test drivers out to test as much as we wanted, do whatever it takes to make a fast car. So long as our car meet the technical rules, we can take any approach we want to make that car. That means we can take advantage of our strength and minimize the effect of our weakness.

Now it's different. What approach we can take to building a car is very restricted, we have rules that dictate how much testing you can do, how much wind tunnel and CFD usage you can have, etc. If that's not bad enough, these changes were introduced bit by bit every year.

So if you think about it, not only the goal post is smaller now, it's a moving goal post as well. It's many times more difficult now to achieve success.

[ntukza]

Although the rules are same for everyone, they are intentionally design to restrict the advantages bigger teams like Ferrari had in the past. Back in the Schumi glory days, the team had the freedom to use everything Ferrari could afford to do, we could send all our drivers and test drivers out to test as much as we wanted, do whatever it takes to make a fast car. So long as our car meet the technical rules, we can take any approach we want to make that car. That means we can take advantage of our strength and minimize the effect of our weakness.

Now it's different. What approach we can take to building a car is very restricted, we have rules that dictate how much testing you can do, how much wind tunnel and CFD usage you can have, etc. If that's not bad enough, these changes were introduced bit by bit every year.

So if you think about it, not only the goal post is smaller now, it's a moving goal post as well. It's many times more difficult now to achieve success.

Well, we need someone who can achieve success under the current conditions, and Stefano does not seem to be that person. In any event, a great leader can achieve success in any set of conditions, e.g. Ross Brawn.

[ntukza]

The fact that we are adopting the wrong strategy and we are simply not too capable of organising a competitive team are too obvious.

Agreed. Like focusing on reliability under the false assumption that it will be the leading criteria, while Merc and Red Bull deliver a fast AND reliable car. So much for half the field not finishing races. We're in a sad state.

[Mile123]

Well you would call it a cheap excuse, but it is a fact that the sport is very different now. Stefano does not have unlimited testing, wind tunnel use etc as Todt did.

You could tell us what Stefano has done wrong in creating a condition for people to use their full potential? How do you know we are not getting the full potential from what we have and that the team infact lacks talent from the ground upwards? It's fine saying A is not performing well enough but if B who is better does not want to join Ferrari then what is Stefano going to do about it? Considering Stefano has hired Alonso and Kimi suggests he more than willing to bring in talent when it's possible no?

Maybe if you can tell us who is better than what we have and why Ferrari have not hired them then your point won't seem so cheap.

It seems to me that our understanding of what the situation is in Ferrari today couldn't be more different.

Mine is that we are at a stage far beyond analyzing why SD did or didn't do something/anything. And I sure as hell don't want to know what “Stefano is going to do about“ anything anymore. What ever it is, too little too late.

Yours on the other hand sounds like ignoring the facts and intentionally or not trying to create a different reality. An elephant-in-the-room syndrome if you will.

You even went to promoting that SD was more than willing to bring in talent etc etc. This is not an issue of will though, it is a question of being capable to manage the team in a way that will get the results. At last, I'm sure all TPs are willing to be in charge of a winning team, but only the best few actually know how to create such team.

Finally, when did I say the team lacked talent from the ground upwards. If you could show me where I said this, I'd be very grateful. Until then your words are nothing but a mere misconception, to put it lightly..

[Mile123]

So Greig are you blaming Stefano, his subordinates, or the rules; or are you simply accepting the situation as it is and hoping for things to improve with the passing of time?

+1

[Mile123]

The fact that we are adopting the wrong strategy and we are simply not too capable of organising a competitive team are too obvious.

Exactly !!

[NasI]

You SD haters and Ferrari lovers :(. Can you imagine that within a family the children can blame the parents for not giving water instant of milk. with all the respect to this forum and to you it looks you are not seeing the big picture.F1 is a game and in this game has many actors and every actor has its share this is part of the sport. You are blaming Stefano for not giving results to the team when Ferrari was the only team to challenge RBR. Underground talks mad RBR champion not within the rules and all the teams accepted it and was not Stefano's fault it was just politics. Welcome to the show.

[Mile123]

You SD haters and Ferrari lovers :(. Can you imagine that within a family the children can blame the parents for not giving water instant of milk. with all the respect to this forum and to you it looks you are not seeing the big picture.F1 is a game and in this game has many actors and every actor has its share this is part of the sport. You are blaming Stefano for not giving results to the team when Ferrari was the only team to challenge RBR. Underground talks mad RBR champion not within the rules and all the teams accepted it and was not Stefano's fault it was just politics. Welcome to the show.

You conspiracy theorists prone to family associations :)

What underground force made the Mercs so dominant this season?

Welcome to reality.

[paneristi]

1. not being an SD hater; it's the view of reality
2. deep down, this is still business; their (the employees') loyalty is based on that (quoting Michael Corleone). Massa was very loyal albeit a little inconsistent after his tragedy. Why let him go? Children-parent relationship? Kimi was a step-son in 2008?
3. I thought last year Mercedes snatched the second WCC point instead of Ferrari?
4. We all love politics; even the way we teach sex education to our children can be political

You SD haters and Ferrari lovers :(. Can you imagine that within a family the children can blame the parents for not giving water instant of milk. with all the respect to this forum and to you it looks you are not seeing the big picture.F1 is a game and in this game has many actors and every actor has its share this is part of the sport. You are blaming Stefano for not giving results to the team when Ferrari was the only team to challenge RBR. Underground talks mad RBR champion not within the rules and all the teams accepted it and was not Stefano's fault it was just politics. Welcome to the show.

[Hornet]

all is fair in war.
just wondering: are you saying that the whole FIA is trying to punish Ferrari alone? or, including the big teams, such as Mercedes? Or, in other words: Ferrari is helpless without testing?
Ferrari perhaps has the largest supporters in F1, and punishing Ferrari is like committing suicide for FIA in F1, killing their own business.
If testing is the only thing we can do, then I must say we are one stubborn team that does not want to accept the reality that others can do well without testing. Ross Brawn was in our dream team, but he succeeded in the test-ban era. Newey has been there before the test-ban, and still can create winning cars.
Aldo Costa was declared too conservative, and yet he creates competitive engine, be him the technical boss or not.
The fact that we are adopting the wrong strategy and we are simply not too capable of organising a competitive team are too obvious.

I wouldn't say Ferrari is specifically targeted although the changes started after the few years we dominated. It's a combination of trying to make the grid closer in terms of performance, as well as other two major focus in recent years which is to reduce the cost, as well as shfiting the sport's technology towards efficiency-focused and "green" approach.

All I'm saying is all of these changes makes it more difficult to compete today then it was during Schumi years, so the challenges our current team faces today is different.

As for Aldo Costa which I've seen being brought up often, well, who knows how much of a factor he has played in Merc success. We have to remember that this is actually the first time Merc has been this successful, the past 4 years belong to Red Bull. And if Costa did changed, who knows maybe being fired from Ferrari forced him to change and had he remain in Ferrari, he may not have changed his approach. If being fired change him, then there's nothing we can do about that.

Well, we need someone who can achieve success under the current conditions, and Stefano does not seem to be that person. In any event, a great leader can achieve success in any set of conditions, e.g. Ross Brawn.

That's true, but we have to ask how much of an influence the team leader have on the end result. If for example, we say the team leader is fully responsible for the end result, then why Red Bull wasn't able to continue their success this year, or why Mercedes wasn't as successful in previous years. Same goes for the other team. A major rule change and the grid order was flipped around. This tells me that the success we achieve isn't always 100% within the control of the people who run the team. Sometimes no matter how good they are, there are things that are beyond their control and these things influence the outcome.

I can understand why many people are calling for a change in the team leader, leaders are generally perceived as the man in charge of a group of people, hence responsible for the "destiny" of the team. But F1 is a really complicated sports and I don't think that perception holds true here.

[Mile123]

I wouldn't say Ferrari is specifically targeted although the changes started after the few years we dominated. It's a combination of trying to make the grid closer in terms of performance, as well as other two major focus in recent years which is to reduce the cost, as well as shfiting the sport's technology towards efficiency-focused and "green" approach.

All I'm saying is all of these changes makes it more difficult to compete today then it was during Schumi years, so the challenges our current team faces today is different.

As for Aldo Costa which I've seen being brought up often, well, who knows how much of a factor he has played in Merc success. We have to remember that this is actually the first time Merc has been this successful, the past 4 years belong to Red Bull. And if Costa did changed, who knows maybe being fired from Ferrari forced him to change and had he remain in Ferrari, he may not have changed his approach. If being fired change him, then there's nothing we can do about that.



That's true, but we have to ask how much of an influence the team leader have on the end result. If for example, we say the team leader is fully responsible for the end result, then why Red Bull wasn't able to continue their success this year, or why Mercedes wasn't as successful in previous years. Same goes for the other team. A major rule change and the grid order was flipped around. This tells me that the success we achieve isn't always 100% within the control of the people who run the team. Sometimes no matter how good they are, there are things that are beyond their control and these things influence the outcome.

I can understand why many people are calling for a change in the team leader, leaders are generally perceived as the man in charge of a group of people, hence responsible for the "destiny" of the team. But F1 is a really complicated sports and I don't think that perception holds true here.

Let's say you are right for the sake of the argument... What would you suggest then? What SF should do to improve the current negative performance trend?

[paneristi]

• Then why not go green? Others can. Why can't we?
• Nobody knows about Aldo's work. Not me, not you. Only Aldo and the insider. Considering Aldo has been around for quite some times, he should be able to read the situation better than any of us. However, the fact remains that when he was with us, we were subpar. Now he left, and we still have subpar performance, if not worse. And he was on podium last week, I wonder if he's done small portion only at Mercedes
• Good illustration below

I think you have all seen this:

http://www.slideshare.net/apanitsch/...nt-rowing-race

I wouldn't say Ferrari is specifically targeted although the changes started after the few years we dominated. It's a combination of trying to make the grid closer in terms of performance, as well as other two major focus in recent years which is to reduce the cost, as well as shfiting the sport's technology towards efficiency-focused and "green" approach.

All I'm saying is all of these changes makes it more difficult to compete today then it was during Schumi years, so the challenges our current team faces today is different.

As for Aldo Costa which I've seen being brought up often, well, who knows how much of a factor he has played in Merc success. We have to remember that this is actually the first time Merc has been this successful, the past 4 years belong to Red Bull. And if Costa did changed, who knows maybe being fired from Ferrari forced him to change and had he remain in Ferrari, he may not have changed his approach. If being fired change him, then there's nothing we can do about that.



That's true, but we have to ask how much of an influence the team leader have on the end result. If for example, we say the team leader is fully responsible for the end result, then why Red Bull wasn't able to continue their success this year, or why Mercedes wasn't as successful in previous years. Same goes for the other team. A major rule change and the grid order was flipped around. This tells me that the success we achieve isn't always 100% within the control of the people who run the team. Sometimes no matter how good they are, there are things that are beyond their control and these things influence the outcome.

I can understand why many people are calling for a change in the team leader, leaders are generally perceived as the man in charge of a group of people, hence responsible for the "destiny" of the team. But F1 is a really complicated sports and I don't think that perception holds true here.

[vcs316]

Although the rules are same for everyone, they are intentionally design to restrict the advantages bigger teams like Ferrari had in the past. Back in the Schumi glory days, the team had the freedom to use everything Ferrari could afford to do, we could send all our drivers and test drivers out to test as much as we wanted, do whatever it takes to make a fast car. So long as our car meet the technical rules, we can take any approach we want to make that car. That means we can take advantage of our strength and minimize the effect of our weakness.

Now it's different. What approach we can take to building a car is very restricted, we have rules that dictate how much testing you can do, how much wind tunnel and CFD usage you can have, etc. If that's not bad enough, these changes were introduced bit by bit every year.

So if you think about it, not only the goal post is smaller now, it's a moving goal post as well. It's many times more difficult now to achieve success.

Mate, even prior to the Schumi glory days or Todt taking over, unlimited testing was available. Ferrari did not manage to win even then.

It is not the rules that let you win (many keep saying it was unlimited testing alone that allowed us to win). It is a combination of rules & how you "cleverly" interpret them, personnel (drivers, designers, engineers etc) and most importantly the right direction (which comes from good/great leaders). That is what Todt, Brawn, Scumi (the dream team) did. It took them 4 years to get the WCC & 5 years to get the WDC. How did they do it? By improving year over year from 1996 to 2008 (thats 13 seasons). Ferrari averaged 7/8 wins a season (off the top of my head a season was between 12 - 15 races??) back then.

We are in the 7th (or 8th) season of Domenicalli as the TP and every year we have faltered & played catch up (without catching up!!!!) - at the start of the season, in-season developments or making erroneous strategy calls. Have we become too soft? Are we playing Mr. Nice Guy too much? I for one am gutted. How can FERRARI.. FERRARI manage to muck up so bad season after season?

I honestly do not & will not accept this argument of " oh rules were different back then, so now we don't/can't win". I love Ferrari and will continue to support the team but will not hide my disappointment or anger (if required) anymore. If SD has to go, he has to go. If hard decisions are required, they might as well take them right away.

[Rookie]

Everyone has valid points that F1 is a totally completely different sport from what it was nearly a decade ago. But like it or not Stefano has had the support of the higher up for so long yet he failed to capitalize on it. Had this argument happened in 2008 or 2010 then I would be the one to fold that maybe he can still turn it around. Isn't nearly 7 years enough time to prove that he has what it takes? Isn't it about time to see and find someone else who probably would have a different vision in leading the team? May it be Flavio or Ross a new person running the team isn't a bad thing if the current status quo hasn't delivered. At the end of the day it's the results are what matters. We won't win again anytime soon with the current state of the top even if it changes but maybe a change in the general management could atleast be a clean slate to start on.

[Hornet]

Let's say you are right for the sake of the argument... What would you suggest then? What SF should do to improve the current negative performance trend?

Well I can't possibly know how to solve it as I'm not someone who runs a F1 team, lol. But I certainly don't believe it's as simple as firing the guy at the top and throwing someone else into the middle of all these. The guy at the top isn't responsible for everything, he don't make technical decisions. His job is to manage the team, while entrusting the people hired to do their job. The problem with our performance doesn't look like a management issue, at least not from the outside. We are not winning not because the team is in a mess or there's fighting within the team, it's purely for technical reasons.

I do think we are over simplifying everything by blaming Domenicali. People simply expect the leader to magically do everything.

Mate, even prior to the Schumi glory days or Todt taking over, unlimited testing was available. Ferrari did not manage to win even then.

It is not the rules that let you win (many keep saying it was unlimited testing alone that allowed us to win). It is a combination of rules & how you "cleverly" interpret them, personnel (drivers, designers, engineers etc) and most importantly the right direction (which comes from good/great leaders). That is what Todt, Brawn, Scumi (the dream team) did. It took them 4 years to get the WCC & 5 years to get the WDC. How did they do it? By improving year over year from 1996 to 2008 (thats 13 seasons). Ferrari averaged 7/8 wins a season (off the top of my head a season was between 12 - 15 races??) back then.

We are in the 7th (or 8th) season of Domenicalli as the TP and every year we have faltered & played catch up (without catching up!!!!) - at the start of the season, in-season developments or making erroneous strategy calls. Have we become too soft? Are we playing Mr. Nice Guy too much? I for one am gutted. How can FERRARI.. FERRARI manage to muck up so bad season after season?

I honestly do not & will not accept this argument of " oh rules were different back then, so now we don't/can't win". I love Ferrari and will continue to support the team but will not hide my disappointment or anger (if required) anymore. If SD has to go, he has to go. If hard decisions are required, they might as well take them right away.

No one is saying Todt didn't do a great job while he was in Ferrari. But there's no guarantee we would still be winning today if we still had that same group of people in the team today. In fact we were not able to win in 2005 and 2006 despite no changes to the team. And it's certainly not Todt's fault. That's just the nature of such a technical sport, as it changes, different team will rise while others will go through a difficult period.

[vcs316]

No one is saying Todt didn't do a great job while he was in Ferrari. But there's no guarantee we would still be winning today if we still had that same group of people in the team today. In fact we were not able to win in 2005 and 2006 despite no changes to the team. And it's certainly not Todt's fault. That's just the nature of such a technical sport, as it changes, different team will rise while others will go through a difficult period.

Hand on heart, do you really believe SD is doing a great job? Aren't you tired of the "Keep calm" PR commentary for the past 5 years? You are right, there is no guarantee we would still be winning today with the same group; similarly there is no guarantee we would ever win with SD at the helm. Yes we weren't able to win in 2005 & 2006. We won 6 WDC in that decade. In 2006 the team embarked on a fantastic in-season development with Schumi driving like a maniac to claw back a deficit of 20/25 points (this is when there was a 2 point diff between 1st & 2nd place) going into the penultimate race of the season. In 2012, we squandered a 40 point lead to lose the bloody championship. Lets not get into ALO DNF due to no fault of his own, I could say the same for China 2006 & Brazil 2006 which would have seen the Red Baron add one more crown.

I do agree the sport has gotten alot more technical. But are we saying that Ferrari do not have great technical guys? If the ones at Ferrari are sub-par (not that we would ever know), why aren't we bringing in the best (we have buckets of money to throw around). Our difficult period has gone long enough (lets not aim for the 21 year record), if a team does not perform, the manager/team leader is questioned. He is given the chance to make changes (be it tools, resources etc). If it still does not perform after procuring the best tools & personnel, he is to blame. And that is exactly what happens in our every day corporate lives.

[Kiwi Nick]

It seems to me that our understanding of what the situation is in Ferrari today couldn't be more different.

Mine is that we are at a stage far beyond analyzing why SD did or didn't do something/anything. And I sure as hell don't want to know what “Stefano is going to do about“ anything anymore. What ever it is, too little too late.

Yours on the other hand sounds like ignoring the facts and intentionally or not trying to create a different reality. An elephant-in-the-room syndrome if you will.

You even went to promoting that SD was more than willing to bring in talent etc etc. This is not an issue of will though, it is a question of being capable to manage the team in a way that will get the results. At last, I'm sure all TPs are willing to be in charge of a winning team, but only the best few actually know how to create such team.

Finally, when did I say the team lacked talent from the ground upwards. If you could show me where I said this, I'd be very grateful. Until then your words are nothing but a mere misconception, to put it lightly..

You are quite right. But, the problems at Ferrari really speak to an apparent lack of synergy among the key players. Every year, since the end of the Schumi/Brawn/Todt era, the team have added and deleted individuals from the design and engineering staff. As a rule these changes have raised the level of talent in the team. Nearly every new face was an improvement over the one it replaced, or so we were told. This surely the most talented team in F1.

The problem is that Ferrari have an all-star team that performs like a mid-field team. Compare the results of Ferrari to those of Williams or Force India. Can anyone name the famous designers who put a very good car under Hulkenberg and Perez? Yet, Ferrari with some of the best, most coveted and highly paid talent in F1 struggle to keep pace, saved only by the talent of its drivers.

Stefano has been afforded the luxury of the largest budget in F1 and everyone's desire to work at Ferrari some time in their life. Getting the very best people to come to Maranello is not a problem. With that advantage he has managed to assemble a team that does not produce satisfactory results. The man with his name on these cars would never, ever have tolerated this.

In the post Schumi years, the Scuderia has wasted the talents of Kimi and Alonso. After his championship year, as the quality of the cars began to decline, Kimi was the scapegoat, replaced by Alonso, because the team thought that only a driver deficiency could account for their decline in fortunes. As good as he is, Alonso has not been able to deliver the desired result. Now comes the realization that it was the car that was in decline. In 2014, we have a new scapegoat...the new rules. Just a few months ago we were assured that the change to an engine dominated formula would play into Ferrari's strength. That has turned out to be hogwash.

So, what to do now? Find better drivers? No, unless you think you can find a better driver than Alonso. Hire more talented designers and engineers? I'm pretty sure Ferrari already have everyone they want, except Newey and Ferrari can't get him. Replace the man who is tasked with making everything work together? That would be Stefano. Wait for the pendulum to swing back Ferrari's way, because it always has, so why worry about bad results?

What would you do?

[Kiwi Nick]

Everyone has valid points that F1 is a totally completely different sport from what it was nearly a decade ago. But like it or not Stefano has had the support of the higher up for so long yet he failed to capitalize on it. Had this argument happened in 2008 or 2010 then I would be the one to fold that maybe he can still turn it around. Isn't nearly 7 years enough time to prove that he has what it takes? Isn't it about time to see and find someone else who probably would have a different vision in leading the team? May it be Flavio or Ross a new person running the team isn't a bad thing if the current status quo hasn't delivered. At the end of the day it's the results are what matters. We won't win again anytime soon with the current state of the top even if it changes but maybe a change in the general management could atleast be a clean slate to start on.

I am going to start calling Stefano "the Cat". But in two years he will have used up his nine lives.

[Kyss4k]

One thing. Remember 2011 British GP? Ferrari was the team (with their customer team Sauber) who could could stop the return of EBD. What did SD do? He, for "good of the sport" (his own words) let Red Bull and Mercedes use the EBD even though FIA wanted to ban it. Ferrari could easilly return into the championship fight, but Stefano acted too friendly. Again. If this is how he is leading the team, no good can ever come out of it.

[F1NAC]

One thing. Remember 2011 British GP? Ferrari was the team (with their customer team Sauber) who could could stop the return of EBD. What did SD do? He, for "good of the sport" (his own words) let Red Bull and Mercedes use the EBD even though FIA wanted to ban it. Ferrari could easilly return into the championship fight, but Stefano acted too friendly. Again. If this is how he is leading the team, no good can ever come out of it.

For me it was a good decision. You would be really happy if we started winning despite changing regulations in the midseason in our favor?? Sorry no thanks, i would rather enjoy when we do a good job and decent car

[Suzie]

Surely Luca would have had the ultimate say when it came to what Ferrari did under those circumstances, though?

[hogo]

I'm curious.... for those wanting Domenicali gone, given that he doesn't work on the engine or aero, who is available in those positions right now that can help Ferrari? No other Team Principal will be able to come in and make a difference to the car either... So clearly what people are saying here is to get rid of Domenicali because he hasn't hired the right people that were available at the time that he was looking....

Given that, who is available right now (Aero/Engine) that can help Ferrari that has not been approached by Domenicali then?

If we could answer this question, we could be TPs as well :D

Luca Furbatto- Designer
Marcin Budkowski-Aerodynamicist

send Ferrari your CV, sir! :)

[Mile123]

You are quite right. But, the problems at Ferrari really speak to an apparent lack of synergy among the key players. Every year, since the end of the Schumi/Brawn/Todt era, the team have added and deleted individuals from the design and engineering staff. As a rule these changes have raised the level of talent in the team. Nearly every new face was an improvement over the one it replaced, or so we were told. This surely the most talented team in F1.

The problem is that Ferrari have an all-star team that performs like a mid-field team. Compare the results of Ferrari to those of Williams or Force India. Can anyone name the famous designers who put a very good car under Hulkenberg and Perez? Yet, Ferrari with some of the best, most coveted and highly paid talent in F1 struggle to keep pace, saved only by the talent of its drivers.

Stefano has been afforded the luxury of the largest budget in F1 and everyone's desire to work at Ferrari some time in their life. Getting the very best people to come to Maranello is not a problem. With that advantage he has managed to assemble a team that does not produce satisfactory results. The man with his name on these cars would never, ever have tolerated this.

In the post Schumi years, the Scuderia has wasted the talents of Kimi and Alonso. After his championship year, as the quality of the cars began to decline, Kimi was the scapegoat, replaced by Alonso, because the team thought that only a driver deficiency could account for their decline in fortunes. As good as he is, Alonso has not been able to deliver the desired result. Now comes the realization that it was the car that was in decline. In 2014, we have a new scapegoat...the new rules. Just a few months ago we were assured that the change to an engine dominated formula would play into Ferrari's strength. That has turned out to be hogwash.

So, what to do now? Find better drivers? No, unless you think you can find a better driver than Alonso. Hire more talented designers and engineers? I'm pretty sure Ferrari already have everyone they want, except Newey and Ferrari can't get him. Replace the man who is tasked with making everything work together? That would be Stefano. Wait for the pendulum to swing back Ferrari's way, because it always has, so why worry about bad results?

What would you do?

Great analysis I must say. Thanks

I don't see us disagreeing about anything though. And if you read my previous posts in this thread, you'd have had a pretty good idea about what I would do.

Also, I think that in a way you answered your own question already, but here it goes.

We have a problem. Deficiency of performance, negative trend over the past 6 years. CHECKED

There is a lack of synergy. CHECKED

The individual talent level was well above the average during the entire period. The results however, completely disproportional. CHECKED

The starlet driver lineup is not happy although doing everything humanly possible, especially Alonso. CHECKED

SD as team boss had the luxury of having the biggest budget along with the "irresistible" Ferrari appeal and everything that it stands for. CHECKED

Ever since 2009 SD and the team PR were playing the blame game, outlining different external reasons why we are not as competitive as the best, with a constant promise of performance improvement year after year that never came. Our own internal mistakes and weaknesses meanwhile were being put under the carpet e.g. Abu Dabi 2010, data interpretation and correlation with wind tunnel, focusing on reliability instead of speed, chronic problems with poor DF and traction, staying calm etc etc. CHECKED

The end result> drop in performance. The final blow, 2014 start of the engine dominated era!

The most called upon position for this situation is the one of the team boss. The one "tasked with making everything work together". The leader, the captain of the ship if you will. We all know who this is. I'm sure he has the best interest of Ferrari deep in his heart. I have also no doubt that he had the will and the intention to do things different. Maybe if he goes back in time he would reverse or alter some of his decisions... Who wouldn't?!

But the question now is what is the likelihood for Ferrari to overcome difficulties and return to winning ways under SD's rule!? Can there be a significant change while he is still in charge?! Haven't he had been given enough chances to prove us wrong already!?

IMHO Ferrari suffers from a clear lack of strong leadership and good management. The sooner we make this change, the sooner we can get back on our feet.

[AfterLife]

Luca Furbatto- Designer
Marcin Budkowski-Aerodynamicist

I am not sure with Luca Furbatto but Marcin Budkowski was a real deal. Pat Fry tried a lot to bring him back to Ferrari but didn't succeed.

[Kyss4k]

For me it was a good decision. You would be really happy if we started winning despite changing regulations in the midseason in our favor?? Sorry no thanks, i would rather enjoy when we do a good job and decent car

This is exactly why we have no title after the influence of the old team vanished. We are too nice, not exploiting every oportunity, not pushing the rules.

But still, what the others were doing was not ok. FIA changed the rule to stop it, but they blew it and had to change it again mid season to achieve what they wanted in the first place.

There were changes mid season before and after and be sure there will be again. Winning is important, not the way you do it.

[Parabolica]

This is Formula One, not a Sunday School.

There is no trophy for being nice and decent.

[paneristi]

superb points. Well said

You are quite right. But, the problems at Ferrari really speak to an apparent lack of synergy among the key players. .... This surely the most talented team in F1.

The problem is that Ferrari have an all-star team that performs like a mid-field team. ....

The man with his name on these cars would never, ever have tolerated this.

... In 2014, we have a new scapegoat...the new rules. Just a few months ago we were assured that the change to an engine dominated formula would play into Ferrari's strength. That has turned out to be hogwash.

So, what to do now? Find better drivers? No, unless you think you can find a better driver than Alonso. Hire more talented designers and engineers? I'm pretty sure Ferrari already have everyone they want, except Newey and Ferrari can't get him. Replace the man who is tasked with making everything work together? That would be Stefano. Wait for the pendulum to swing back Ferrari's way, because it always has, so why worry about bad results?

What would you do?