2015 Spanish GP race thread

[darkchild]

Maybe you think we got faster then. I don't.

We didnt get slower either.

[Greig]

We didnt get slower either.

Hard to say really, we were 45 seconds behind Nico. Seems like we are further behind to me.

[darkchild]

I dont know we looked pretty slow compared to them even in Bahrein. Merc would overtake us with ease there... It does seem like ever RBR then got slower as tehy were whopping 2s a lap slower on "aero track". W06 is just monster...

[Greig]

Really? And what does? There is simply no evidence Ferrari was slower duo to fuel flow cheating. TS and speed traps through the sectors are pretty much spot on as last 4 races for Sauber and Ferrari. There is evidence however that Ferrari lost .5s in last sector of track that is all traction and little power related.

How about we had to reduce our downforce to negate the loss of the fuel pressure which off course keeps the top speed but hurts you in the corners and lessens your traction such as S3 at Barcelona.....

[darkchild]

Actually first 2 sectors are high downforce ones, not S3. S1 and S2 have longer sweeping corners that require good downforce and we were faster there then anyone bar Merc, actually we were closest to Merc we have ever been as they just destroyed us in China in similar corners (remember we were 1 second slower in Qualis there).

S3 is high traction sector where we simply arent as good as Merc, but again we are fastest of the bunch there as well (Williams being close).

So no, fuel flow doesnt explain this loss at all. We were 1.5s slower in winter testing, and slower then Williams by few tenths. Here we were 7 tenths slower with biggest deficit in S3 (0.5s). Everyone was slower relative to Merc, non more so then RBR with their new nose.

[mark p]

Actually first 2 sectors are high downforce ones, not S3. S1 and S2 have longer sweeping corners that require good downforce and we were faster there then anyone bar Merc, actually we were closest to Merc we have ever been as they just destroyed us in China in similar corners (remember we were 1 second slower in Qualis there).

S3 is high traction sector where we simply arent as good as Merc, but again we are fastest of the bunch there as well (Williams being close).

So no, fuel flow doesnt explain this loss at all. We were 1.5s slower in winter testing, and slower then Williams by few tenths. Here we were 7 tenths slower with biggest deficit in S3 (0.5s). Everyone was slower relative to Merc, non more so then RBR with their new nose.

Tyres did not work for Ferrari but interesting Hill said on Sky Barcelona is worst track for aero in traffic even 100m behind. Hamilton said no chance to overtake Vettel when behind and a trait so far this year is Ferrari suffer most behind others so once started lapping back markers the pace fell off a cliff.

[cokata]

Actually first 2 sectors are high downforce ones, not S3. S1 and S2 have longer sweeping corners that require good downforce and we were faster there then anyone bar Merc, actually we were closest to Merc we have ever been as they just destroyed us in China in similar corners (remember we were 1 second slower in Qualis there).

S3 is high traction sector where we simply arent as good as Merc, but again we are fastest of the bunch there as well (Williams being close).

So no, fuel flow doesnt explain this loss at all. We were 1.5s slower in winter testing, and slower then Williams by few tenths. Here we were 7 tenths slower with biggest deficit in S3 (0.5s). Everyone was slower relative to Merc, non more so then RBR with their new nose.

This! Vettel was very close to the Mercs in the downforce sectors, but was very far away from the Mercs in the traction sector. I'm hoping it's something that can be solved and is not some fundamental issue with out chassis and/or how it uses the tires. Again like in China Vettel seems to struggle on the Hards. On the mediums he was ok.

[darkchild]

Agreed. Looking at what Maurizio said and at our sector times Im actually not that down as I was at first. Yes .7 tenths i huge, but it didnt come from aero heaviest part of the track like that 1s deficit in China, we were solid up until traction heavy part of the track. What is the reason I dont know, but hopefully team knows as Arrivabene couldnt explain either.

[aroutis]

Hard to say really, we were 45 seconds behind Nico. Seems like we are further behind to me.

And perhaps this was just a case of bringing too many updates and we had a handful and we just could not get things right.
No risk no gain I guess.

[Greig]

And perhaps this was just a case of bringing too many updates and we had a handful and we just could not get things right.
No risk no gain I guess.

Hopefully not as that sounds like what we did when Stefano was in charge.

[darkchild]

Hopefully we will be able to test upgrades throughly in 2 days of testing, as well as maybe new PU. BTW anyone knows how long testing lasts? Entire day?

[F1NAC]

A Williams beat us.....

Can you elaborate me where williams beat us? You can be on faster tire but when car infront has top speed you can screw that. Just look at monza 2011 schu vs hamilton. We were faster than williams when Kimi fitted hards and they were on the mediums. Williams didnt beat us

[f412]

Hopefully we will be able to test upgrades throughly in 2 days of testing, as well as maybe new PU. BTW anyone knows how long testing lasts? Entire day?

not an entire day but 6-7 hours;;; morning and afternoon...you cant get live coverage but you get live commentary and timedlaps and other details on live.autosport.com

[Greig]

Can you elaborate me where williams beat us? You can be on faster tire but when car infront has top speed you can screw that. Just look at monza 2011 schu vs hamilton. We were faster than williams when Kimi fitted hards and they were on the mediums. Williams didnt beat us

4. Bottas
5. Raikkonen

Not sure how it can be more elaborated to you?

[darkchild]

Bottas has beaten Kimi, Vettel has beaten both Williams drivers. We were easily faster then them in Barcelona even with old package, but after catching up Kimi just couldn't pass Valteri like Vettel couldn't citing traction and dirty air that made that impossible.

If Kimi does a job he is supposed to do (4th in qualis) Williams will be left in dust in every other track.

[Winter]

A Williams beat us.....

Again..

[Greig]

But he never so we can discuss fantasy of what might happen or what did happen?

[darkchild]

My point is FW37 is not better car then SF15, gap (beside quali) is huge. The fact that Kimi couldn't pass Bottas doesn't mean we are slower or we will get beaten regular, just like the fact that Ham couldn't pass Vettel didnt mean W06 is slower then SF15. It was already said that new noses are notorious for bad reaction to dirty and turbulent air so passing is tricky, and Barcelona makes that even harder especially with our traction out of last corner. Thats all.

[Greig]

And Bottas still beat Kimi, that is all.

[F1NAC]

4. Bottas
5. Raikkonen

Not sure how it can be more elaborated to you?

Kimi was slower on the straight that means nothing. Hamilton wasnt able to pass vettel

[Greig]

Kimi was slower on the straight that means nothing. Hamilton wasnt able to pass vettel

But he still finished ahead of us, not sure why that is so hard to understand for some on here lol

[darkchild]

And we have beaten Merc in Bahrain. And in Malaysia as well.

Whole argument started with "Even Williams beat us". Yes Williams beat us and we have beaten Merc two times this season. But this is F1 and there are reasons for that, it doesnt mean they are anywhere close to being as fast as us, but go ahead and continue...

[Greig]

And we have beaten Merc in Bahrain. And in Malaysia as well.

Whole argument started with "Even Williams beat us". Yes Williams beat us and we have beaten Merc two times this season. But this is F1 and there are reasons for that, it doesnt mean they are anywhere close to being as fast as us, but go ahead and continue...

I give up if you want to play pretend what might happen then be my guest I will stick to the truth. Bottas was as fast as us today like it or not. Bahrain and Malaysia were not today.

[mark p]

Last race Bottas beat Vettel this time Raikkonen. This is a fact. Circumstances last time Vettel made an scheduled pit stop due to a mistake, today was simply a consequence of a poor quali from Raikkonen a mixture of possibly wrong package coupled with poor execution. Malaysia was good conditions for Ferrari so Raikkonen could start 11th and easily beat both Williams but cannot at all other races if have an issue. In Australia Raikkonen was on course for 5th if wheel was fitted properly so 3 of 5 races 3 and 5 as 1 driver had an issue, Malaysia was perfect conditions so could recover and China both drivers of Ferrari performed and had no issues and finished 3 and 4....simples.

[darkchild]

I give up if you want to play pretend what might happen then be my guest I will stick to the truth. Bottas was as fast as us today like it or not. Bahrain and Malaysia were not today.

Except he wasn't as fast as we were today. Thats all I'm saying. Being unable to pass =/= slower. Its a fact, this cars cannot pass other cars especially in Barcelona if they aren't faster by at least a second. Its like saying Vettel was as fast as Hamilton in first two stints. He wasn't, Ham quickly caught him up but he hasn't been able to pass him as he said few times on TR.

"Passing him on track is impossible, guys we will have to do something different".

My argument is very simple...Saying Williams was faster then Raikkonen started as knee jerk reaction and people expecting it to happen every race, but it was actually pretty similar to Vettel in Bahrain. One stop more, changed FW and still caught up with Bottas pretty fast just couldn't overtake for the reasons mentioned above.

Going forward, if we qualify 3rd and 4th (as we should) Williams has as much hope as catching us as we have on catching Mercs. If Kimi under-performs again passing them on track will likely be tricky or impossible, even though catching them will be relatively straightforward.

[Greig]

Ok he was not as fast he was nowhere near us.......

[darkchild]

Are you incapable of grown up discussion? Was Vettel as fast as Hamilton today in first two stints or was it that Hamilton easily caught up with Vettel and then just couldnt pass him because he would destroy his tires and turbolant air slowed him down severely once he got under 1 second?

These two are very different things we are arguing about. Kimi had no problems catching up on Valteri, cutting 1+ second of his lead per lap yet he couldnt do **** when he got into DRS zone for 8 laps. Thats why Ferrari was faster car here comfortably. Because Vettel beaten both Williams drivers easily today, and only reason why Kimis race pace couldnt materialize with 4th place is because overtaking was impossible even in considarably faster car (Ham vs Vettel).

[Stormy]

But he still finished ahead of us, not sure why that is so hard to understand for some on here lol

We must take into consideration that Kimi wasn't driving with the new components.

[Nova]

Well then due to the fact that Ferrari has improved, it does look as though merc has had to run their engines at full power..
so we r back to square 1 until we can get our pu or whatever else we're going to add...
Once we start closing the gap again, thats where the games shall begin..It also looks like merc has turned up Williams wick as well to tangle w/Ferrari and keep us off of their backs. I see no other reason why we would be this far behind again.
I think once we start closing this gap, the real game begins.

Mabey Im crazy, but I can see no other reason actually. Even though the track didnt suit us, u just dont all of a sudden finish 45 seconds behind when previous races we ran w/them and even beat them.

[The Hajj]

Well then due to the fact that Ferrari has improved, it does look as though merc has had to run their engines at full power..
so we r back to square 1 until we can get our pu or whatever else we're going to add...
Once we start closing the gap again, thats where the games shall begin..It also looks like merc has turned up Williams wick as well to tangle w/Ferrari and keep us off of their backs. I see no other reason why we would be this far behind again.
I think once we start closing this gap, the real game begins.

Mabey Im crazy, but I can see no other reason actually. Even though the track didnt suit us, u just dont all of a sudden finish 45 seconds behind when previous races we ran w/them and even beat them.

Excellent post Nova. I agree with your opinion of Mercedes race manipulations. It seems very suspicious that Ferrari's best races came at a time when there were a lot of concerns about the quality of the F1 show coming from multiple sources. It may be entirely possible that Mercedes "allowed" themselves to look mortal long enough to deflect the criticism and now they have decided to return to their dominant role.