European GP 2010 Official Race Thread

[hogo]

So you think the race was fixed to help Lewis? Alonso claims it was manipulated, I do not agree.

Yeah you must be wiser than he is

Actually race was manipulated, first by letting SC out just before Lewis/Alonso/Massa while Vettel could get away, second for "investigating" Lewsers "mistake" for way too long and third by giving a penalty which was way too light. If that was not a manipulation to try to help a certain persona (or in fact 2 of them) then I don't know what manipulation is.

[Greig]

Yeah you must be wiser than he is

Actually race was manipulated, first by letting SC out just before Lewis/Alonso/Massa while Vettel could get away, second for "investigating" Lewsers "mistake" for way too long and third by giving a penalty which was way too light. If that was not a manipulation to try to help a certain persona (or in fact 2 of them) then I don't know what manipulation is.

So the FIA times the SC to do that then, they got Webber to crash intentionally I suppose? SC was released as soon as it happened, really

[shostak]

I agree and i'm quite sure i am not paranoid. At least i have never been treated for such a serious disease.

FIA is manipulating every year, last year with Brawn and double diffuser. And online bets now are connected with this.

[shostak]

So the FIA times the SC to do that then, they got Webber to crash intentionally I suppose? SC was released as soon as it happened, really

Last year in a race there was an accident and FIA wait until Button pitted before SC. It's another example.

[Hornet]

Glad I wasn't the only one feeling strange about it

The SC was rolling out the pits, I doubt its racing down the pits at 200kmph
Lewis could have easily pass the SC the moment he saw he, let alone the length they had right up to the SC line. Lewis didn't even have to floor the throttle or anything like that.

What I don't understand is why is he cruising close to the SC and attempt to pass it just at the last moment, at the SC line when he was well aware of the SC long before that. I'm sure the team would be in contact with him, telling him what he need to do and stuff like that.

Technically it would not be wrong i guess, IDK. but it would be a dirty trick to deliberately hold back Alonso

[TheProdigalSon]

So the FIA times the SC to do that then, they got Webber to crash intentionally I suppose? SC was released as soon as it happened, really

Know one is saying FIA created the accident that's pretty obviously not true, but if the opportunity arises to punish Hamilton/macca they have made some questionable decisions. Not just this race, they chose to ignore the unsafe release of Hamilton into the path of Alonso in cananda. I'm curious as to what there stance would have been had it been the other way round.

[Greig]

Know one is saying FIA created the accident that's pretty obviously not true, but if the opportunity arises to punish Hamilton/macca they have made some questionable decisions. Not just this race, they chose to ignore the unsafe release of Hamilton into the path of Alonso too. I'm curious as to what there stance would have been had it been the other way round.

Ferrari never complained about it, why not?

[hogo]

So the FIA times the SC to do that then, they got Webber to crash intentionally I suppose? SC was released as soon as it happened, really

I have seen episodes where SC stops and lets train pass through but I haven't seen such disgrace when it jumps in the middle of top 3 cars. These 3 cars where quite close to each other, SC had to stop and let train pass. After all racing was already done due to the yellow flags, nothing would have happened if SC got out a bit later or sooner (if latter was possible).

[Hermann]

Ferrari never complained about it, why not?

Maybe because they knew it wouldn't change anything. Maybe they have resigned already, though i hope not. You would have to ask them i suppose.

[Greig]

Maybe because they knew it wouldn't change anything. Maybe they have resigned already, though i hope not. You would have to ask them i suppose.

Well they complained today so why not in Canada? Maybe Ferrari will still take this further as they should

[Hermann]

And while we discuss our own problems i want to say that i feel very sorry for Webber. I'm not sure who was at fault here more for the accident, but i'm happy he came out of this still walking. It looked terrible.

[shostak]

Alonso said: everything is against us...

That tells me everything.

[theodorus8864]

Alonso makes it very clear that he blames STEWARD not Hamilton, to have manipulating the race.
Now let's do a simple math... starting from the report to FIA on Hamilton getting passed on SC, it takes 20 laps before the penalty. And let's say we take an average per lap is 1 minute 40 seconds. That means it takes approx. 33 minutes 20 seconds (which almost cover one third of the whole race time) for FIA just to rewind the tape (which is definitely so clear and crisp, not requiring them to put a focus glass on) and justify the penalty. Therefore, let me ask ya all... as a critical fan, will you raise doubt on happen in FIA office with all those fat snails?!!!!

[TheProdigalSon]

Ferrari never complained about it, why not?

Do Ferrari have to complain for it to be wrong, Alonso's tyres hit the wall that's how close it was. You actually proved my point, it's like the FIA are keeping quite every time macca does something wrong incase anyone notices or complains. Would they still have acted had Ferrari not said anything on this occasion, they were probably already aware of it since the safetycar driver would have told them immediately after it happened. But they twiddled there thumbs, then twiddled there thumbs a bit more when Ferrari complained before finally handing a 'get out of jail card' esq penalty to golden boots who suddenly has amnesia after any controversial incidents.

[Greig]

Do Ferrari have to complain for it to be wrong, Alonso's tyres hit the wall that's how close it was. You actually proved my point, it's like the FIA are keeping quite every time macca does something wrong incase anyone notices or complains. Would they still have acted had Ferrari not said anything, they were probably already aware of it since the safetycar driver would have told them immediately after it happened, but they twiddled there thumbs, then twiddled there thumbs a bit more when Ferrari complained before finaly handing a 'get out of jail card' esq penalty to golden boots who suddenly has amnesia after any controversial incidents.

How do you know the SC driver even noticed? you don't do you it was inches in it, how would the SC driver really notice where the line was and had Hamilton passed it.The punishment was not fitting, but the Alonso fans are not roaming into pure fantasy land with it being fixed, maybe Alonso will say it's not a sport anymore

[REDARMYSOJA]

Hamilton got advantage since he had to change the front wing. Alonso would have overtaken him in boxes.

Very good point. I hadn't considered that.

[REDARMYSOJA]

So the FIA times the SC to do that then, they got Webber to crash intentionally I suppose? SC was released as soon as it happened, really

I agree. No conspiracy, just stupidity, by both race control and the rules.

[shostak]

I think Ramilton braked to avoid Alonso overtake SC but he failed to pass SC before line...

[hogo]

I agree. No conspiracy, just stupidity, by both race control and the rules.

such stupid decisions at such a high level? I wouldn't be so naive . And rules are very clear here, no one is questioning them.

[TheProdigalSon]

@ grieg The point your arguing is barely worth arguing becuase even if the safetycar driver didn't see him which you don't know yourself if it's true or not but it's just the time they took from Ferrari reporting it and till the penalty is the concern. Your running out of ways to defend yourself so your now trying label me as an Alonso fanboy, but I've learnt by watching some of your previous arguments the best way is to simply rise above it and not sink down to your level.

[hogo]

I think Ramilton braked to avoid Alonso overtake SC but he failed to pass SC before line...

that is also very likely seeing how he and SC "race" each other

[Hermann]

There is nothing to defend the undefendable. One can try, but we have eyes to see and ears to hear.

InsideFerrari

EUR - The fans call it “a scandal”

[Greig]

The point your arguing is barely worth arguing becuase even if the safetycar driver didn't see him which you don't know yourself if it's true or not but it's just the tome they took from Ferrari reporting it and till the penalty is the concern. Your running out of ways to defend yourself so your now trying label me as a Alonso fanboy, but I've learnt by watching some of your previous arguments the best way is to simply rise above it and notsink down to your level.

Defending myself? no I am defending the allegations that F1 is fixed to make Vettel v Hamilton, you said the SC driver would see it, we don't know that so it's a pointless point to say. Throwing your toys out the pram at me won't change nothing, at least I don't sink to the levels of desperation some Alonso fans can reach too Ferrari reported it after the SC period, was not 20 laps as claimed, penalty was given and Lewis had 3 laps to serve it which he used, so it was more like 12 laps really. So the FIA had to react to the our complaint, go review the evidence, then serve the penalty, then McLaren had to acknowledge penalty, there is a procedure to be followed.

[gvsnraju85]

I understand all the frustration every Tifosi has today....but i still have 1 big doubt in my mind:

All the big updates, all the quick lap times in the practice and then in Qualifying we hear a statement from Ferrari: "We will be lucky if we can make it to Q3"........then the quick pace in the begining on the soft tyres (which were not at all working in our favour yesterday) and then when we finally got on the hards (which were supposed to be ideal for our car) all we could manage was 1 overtaking move...even sutil over took buemi and we could not....we did not even seem to be trying to overtake anyone....we never really challenged anyone after the pitstop....both our drivers......WHY

1.Did our car suddenly lose the advantage that we had yesterday with the Hard Tyres??
2. Was the team in a damage limitation mode and driving conservatively after seeing what happened to webber trying to overtake a slower car??

Or am i missing smthing..........yes i am really frustrated with what happened today....and i think we should also play the "Win by hook or crook" game rather than playing the nice boy and getting nudged to the sidelines

Can someone answer this question??

[REDARMYSOJA]

such stupid decisions at such a high level? I wouldn't be so naive . .

And I wouldn't be so paranoid.

[Ste]

Check this out

http://twitpic.com/20gqa9

Just our two cars behind the SC. Cars behind got into the pits, Ham and Vettel through.

[hogo]

And I wouldn't be so paranoid.

It could be a paranoia if I would say such things after seeing stewards screw up for the first time this year but come on, we see similar biased decisions almost EACH race and almost all of them involve Lewis. Its hardly a paranoia.

[Suzie]

LeeMcKenzieF1 So far Buemi, Petrov, Liuzzi, Hulkenberg all get no penalty from the Stewards.

[Becool70]

I think Ramilton braked to avoid Alonso overtake SC but he failed to pass SC before line...

I agree this was os obvious in the replay!! He was timing the SC so Alonso would loose out.. He is and always was a RAT!! Hate him even more now..

[Greig]

I agree this was os obvious in the replay!! He was timing the SC so Alonso would loose out.. He is and always was a RAT!! Hate him even more now..

If that is the case, then it was very clever Much like the time Alonso slowed to make MS pass him under yellows at Hungary one year, rat too?